SistersHelp

Thanks Chris,
I'm going to keep offering it to her and I think you're right that she will eventually want it. Ahh... yeah, I'm starting to get a grip on detachment. Hurts though, huh? Feels more like amputation. :P But if it gets me closer to that serenity you're bound for, I'm sticking with it.

(((hugs)))

BayAreaPhoenix

Sister - I haven't posted on this at all. But, I have been following your thread.

My mother wasn't an addict, but she was something. Mentally unstable, narcissistic, something. When I was 18 she pulled what I can only call her "last stunt". I couldn't take any more. I thought I was going to go mad, literally. I seriously thought I would end up in an institution having her in my life and it was a choice, a life or her.

I called my Dad, who was living across the country and I moved. That was 24 years ago. I haven't spoken to my mother since. Now - I obviously wouldn't be on this board if everything was hunky dory, however, I do have a life. More than that I have a chance for a life. BUT, if I was younger, and my Aunt, or my Dad, or someone could have given me the gift you are giving your niece, I might not have ended up here at all (not that I would give any one up here).

Kids can take a lot from their parents. Kids have an infinite capacity to forgive and hope for the best, but even kids can reach their breaking point.

I don't know if your niece will ever get there. But, with your guidance, even if she never gets to a place where she has to choose, she will have better tools to keep her mother in her life - from a distance, whatever that might be to her.

You have no idea how much you are giving that child, even if you think you do. I speak from the heart and from experience when I say I wish I had had someone like you and your husband to fight the battle to do for me what you are doing. Of course, back then it was a different ball-game, it wasn't that no one wasn't willing - it was next to impossible.

And, just so you know. The best thing my Dad ever did was not bad-mouth my Mom to me. But, he also never denied when I talked to him about my hurts and frustrations. He understood and I knew that. He left the door open that way, if I should ever want to talk to her again - or try to. I never needed that door and I don't think I ever will, but I see now what a gift it was and I just wanted you to know (again) what a gift you give your niece, it does matter and it does count!

Many many hugs to you and your husband!

Impurrfect

(((Lisa)))

Don't worry about "taking" and "not giving back". You don't realize that when we are able to share our experiences, walk along this path with someone else, and make a new friend, it also enriches OUR life. You've been there for me, and you've been there for others, so don't sell yourself short, okay?

I can't tell you how many times I've come to SR, all stressed out, and what made me feel "all better" was the simple fact that people cared. They didn't fix the situation, no one told me what to do, although I usually got some great suggestions. They just listened and let me know they cared.

That's what's so great about this place. Sometimes we come and we're more on the "needing" end...other times we're more on the "giving" end. Whichever end we're on, it all balances out.

You've already seen a few people come here, lately, who are in similar situations, and you're a few steps ahead of them. There will be others, and you will be able to help them with your ES&H. It's sad to see, but I'm glad you're here for them.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

SistersHelp

Thank you for that reminder, so much. That's what I want for her, to be able to find a way to cope with her mother's illness that allows her to love her but not be controlled and manipulated and hurt by her. When I figure out how to do that for myself, I'll be in a better position to teach her.

And thank you for that, too. I'm so sad that children of parents with these kind of disorders suffer so much. I can't imagine how hard it must've been for you - and for my niece - to be parented by someone with this kind of illness. You must have had to be very very strong to make the decision to leave at such a young age.

And thank you HUGELY for that. It's a continual battle inside myself not to burden her with my frustrations with her mother. But that's my wish, like your Dad's, to keep the door open that she can still have a relationship with her mom if she wants one.

BayAreaPhoenix, I really appreciate your thoughts on all of this, having come from a background similar, perhaps, to my niece's. If your mom has Narcissistic Personality Disorder... well! It has a lot of similarities to Borderline Personality Disorder. It's un-live-with-able in many cases. I'm so sorry for all you must've been through with your mother and I'm super-grateful for your comments.

(((hugs)))
Lisa

SistersHelp

Aww Amy, I just love you so much.

BayAreaPhoenix

Sister - As odd as it may sound. I wouldn't change a thing! The people and lessons I have learned from fighting my way out of that... I may not wish it on anyone else, but I wouldn't trade it either. I have soooooo many blessings! I think your niece will look back and think the same (at least that is what I hope)! Sometimes life gives us our biggest blessings from our biggest struggles!

I have been counting my blessings and being grateful daily since I was 18! Before I knew how important it was. It was innate. I'm guessing that might be just be a gift you and your hubby are passing along!

(((hugs)))

SistersHelp

I decided to supervise a visit between my sister and her daughter on Saturday. It had been a long time since I'd seen my sister and she's been less abusive lately. So I gave it a shot. I told her ahead of time that if she made the visit miserable it would be the very last one I supervised.

She was actually okay.

We just went out for breakfast. She seemed normal(ish) and there were no ugly moments. Thank goodness.

The only weird thing was watching her drink her coffee. My sister ALWAYS used to drink her coffee black. Now she's drinking it with LITERALLY 5 or 6 creams per cup and LITERALLY 10-15 packets of sugar. What the hell is that?

And she's soooo heavy. It's sad... I'm thinking this could be contributing a lot to her back pain. I don't know what this is about. She was heavy when she was a little girl through her teens... then she seemed to get it under control for a long time. Then, in the last couple of years it seemed she was getting heavy again. Now, seeing her this weekend for the first time in awhile I was really rather stunned. Is this a symptom of the drug use? ... or of flagging self-esteem? Or what?

I'm not being critical... I mean, I'm no Richard Simmons myself ... but I was just really surprised.

Impurrfect

(((Lisa))) People who used to do crack or cocaine, usually go through a period where they crave sugar. I didn't know this, before I got on the crack, and learned it when I was watching "Law and Order" One of the cops was watching a suspect dump packets of sugar in his coffee and asked him "so, you do much cocaine?". My XABF craved sugar when he was off the crack.

I never really craved the sugar, but I did eat a lot, since I never ate when I was using.

I'm glad the visit went well. I'm sure it IS contributing to her back pain, but not much you can do about it.

Good for you for setting your boundaries and making them clear, right from the beginning!!!

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

SistersHelp

Ahhh so that makes sense then. Thanks ((((Amy))))... you are my favourite encyclopedia!

Seren

(((Lisa))), I'm glad you were able to have a civilized(?) visit with your sister! That sugar thing is kind of interesting. It would certainly make crack a much worse drug for a diabetic then.....

Hugs, HG

NeedingHelp7

Sister...Are you planning on supervising more visits to save money.

I was quite shocked when I read you had supervised the visit. You seem to have had a change of heart lately?

My best regards to you and neice. I'm thinking of you often, and I hope everything gets progressively better.

NH7

SistersHelp

Hi NH7,
No, the reason I decided to supervise the visit was just the fact that my sister has been less abusive lately. She's stopped threatening to take away my niece's visit to her grandparents and hasn't been causing as much drama. So I thought I'd give it a try.

The thing I'm struggling with is that I love her. Even though she's impossible to deal with so much of the time!

After talking to her counsellor at the last treatment place she got kicked out of, I felt myself softening a bit. I think that's because the counsellor told me that while my sister was there she really did seem to be trying to change. (Of course, not enough to avoid being kicked out.)

Anyway... I figured that I'd try it with the boundaries clearly defined... and it actually went okay. Surprisingly. I don't expect that it can continue without incident for long, because my sister is just such a drama-magnet. But if we can have a few semi-pleasant visits before that happens, maybe that's worth something.

I keep thinking I'm not going to have her for very long... so maybe that motivates me somewhat too. Not that I want to be held hostage by that fear... but it's a very real fear.



*


The funny thing about detachment is this.

I've prayed for my niece to be able to detach from her mother in a way that would protect her from being hurt all the time by her mother's actions.

And now I see her there. She's done it quite successfully, much more so than I have.

And yet somehow it's painful to see that she really has lost interest in her mom's life, her mom's bad choices, her mom.

Even though I know it's for the best.

Seren

HG

SistersHelp

Week 2 of supervising visits myself. Since week 1 went okay I decided to do another.

It wasn't bad at all.

We wandered around the mall, had a snack, and that was it.

My sister told me (while niece was trying on clothes) that she is now taking methadone. I have no way of knowing if this is true or not, whether it's a good idea or not, or anything. So I just listened. She said it's making her back pain far less painful and that her doctor plans to keep cutting back her medications and prescribing higher doses of methadone instead.

She seemed okay today, not lethargic, not slurring, not too overly emotional... just fairly normal.

I can't tell, of course, if this is how she usually is these days, or if this is just good behaviour for the visits... but I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm glad that she seems to be on a somewhat even keel the last few weeks.

She's still waiting to find out if she will be reaccepted to treatment program that threw her out. I wonder if her good behaviour is because she's anticipating drug testing upon return? Anyway... I'll take a good day without complaint.

Impurrfect

Wow, ((Lisa)) - sounds like things are going pretty good on the visits! I'm really glad! I know I would be wondering "how long is THIS going to last", which is NOT a good thing to do, so I will just say "stay in today". Just because I know what to do, doesn't mean my mind always does it

I was reading your post above this, about your niece detaching. I realize, we give our nieces the tools to help them detach. They teach US how to do it, because they don't have the years and years of history we do, maybe? I think we learn something from them, too.

I know, as much as I want to wring Brit's neck, sometimes, it's also refreshing to see thing's from a 15-year-old's point of view. She's not as jaded, as I am. She doesn't have the decades of stuff running around in her head. Yeah, she doesn't have the years of life experience I do, either, but I'm learning to look through her eyes a bit more, and it's rather refreshing.

The older I get, the more I learn

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

SistersHelp

My sister called today. She says that she will be getting an *answer* by Friday.

To refresh your memory (hard to recall which piece of nonsense I'm referring to, isn't it?) she was kicked out of the latest rehab a few weeks ago because she was found with a pill in her purse, against house rules. She claimed it was planted there by someone else who wanted to get her kicked out.

Anyway, with permission, she filed an appeal against being kicked out and asked to be readmitted. It takes time for this paperwork to be discussed and so she's been back living with Hairy Scary in the meantime.

So, now she says she'll find out by Friday if they're going to let her back in and she wants me to call the director of this centre and ask her to let my sister back in (in case they're going to say no) and tell her how much her family wants to see her back in rehab in hopes that will help her case.

Sometimes I have no idea what's enabling and what's helping and what's just a pain in the butt.

What would you do?

liesagain

There is a fine line between enabling and helping

my first thought is go with your gut but AT times that gets me in trouble

there was a discussion about this topic last week here on Sr
and what I think is

~~ if you have no expectations of the outcome........( if she stays in treatment or not)
and you wont feel worse if things dont go the way you'd like them to~~ go ahead and call

I also feel that any requests they make for help or treatment is working towards the solution so I feel its okay to do

best wishes no matter what you decide

Impurrfect

(((Lisa)))

I honestly don't know what I would do. My gut says just stay out of it and let her deal with it. I only say that because she's been in and out of treatment so many times, and I think she needs to do this on her own.

On the other hand, I know you want her to get help.

A lot of help, I am, huh? ((Lies)) has a good point, and is much more help than me

I've just gotten to the point, when I don't know what to do, can't tell if I'm being a codie or not, I just don't do anything until I can figure out what my motives are..am I doing it because I have expectations? am I doing it just because I truly want them to get help?

As long as not making a decision doesn't stress me out more, or cause more problems for me, I've found out that it usually works in my favor.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

laurie6781

I'm with Amy on this one. Stay out of it. She has to do this on her own. If it were my family member and I had been through what you have been through and I was working on my own issues, I just would not do it.

I think she is still quacking.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Seren

Hmmmm....I don't know if I could call the director without having some expectation of the outcome and then being disappointed. If you had a neutral attitude toward the whole thing and placed the call, then it might not carry any weight with the director. 'Course all this might be mute if the director does not consider appeals from family members.....Yeah, sorry, I'm no help either!

Just do what YOU think is best based on your own experiences and expectations.

Huge hugs!!!! HG