cessy68

Hey everyone, I will try and make this short. (although I always say that )

I'm confused beyond belief, Most know my story, I'm makeing the progression (getting myself strong) to end my relationship and to ask hi to leave ( bad bad opiate abuse).

I asked on the substance abuse forum how you can tell if a person is sniffing the pills. I wondered myself what my motive was for wanting to know- I think it's so I can say to myself that things are getting worse rather than better, and I can use that info to help myself put an end to it....

I am soooo confused now, because on that forum I talked to callie and read other posts. The other posts say that our addicts 'despise' us for constantly nagging, beggin, basically staying with them.

I (as you all know last week asked my abf to leave.)

He didn't (very suprising) - he came home and actually cried (never does this) made big plans for us on new years, and asked me how I could walk away from a man I love- just because he has a problem. He said that he is not stupid, and that he knows he has to quit... but it's just so darn hard that I don't understand.

He made his 'empty promises of stopping' once again, however, I had a grown man crying his eyes out, saying we all have issues, and he has his as well. That he didn't want to loose the one thing he had in life - his heart me.

Yep that got me.....

SO which is it? Do our addicts despise us for staying and trying??

Or do they want us to stay??

I KNOW YOUR going to ask me what I want.

I want the 'old guy' back. That I know is gone cause of drugs. I WANT to believe him-

I DONT WANT to prolong my agony any longer wasteing my years away on someone who apparently isn't strong enough to get to a doctor or a meeting.

Thankyou for responding,
Cessy..........
(wasn't short again. sorry.)

lugnut

As an addict I can say We really do want you to stay!!!!

But our addiction is much stronger than our will is.. It is not that we want to loose you. We almost have no choice. But we do (know what I mean) It aint easy coming off the stuff.


But you cannot keep giving him chances as he will use that to his advantage knowing that you will stay no matter what!!
Next time leave but just for the night..Let him think all night your gone for good. This will make or break him (trust me one night will do it) stay at a hotel or friends house and dont even think about him..
Then go back and ask if he is ready to change for you and himself. For the relationship! Mostly for him though.

laurie6781

Both, I wanted you to stay and provide me with the life I was accustomed to (no worries per se) but I didn't want you constantly nagging and harping and yelling at me about my alcohol and/or drug use.

You see during the practicing of our addictions, and many times into recovery we are extremely SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED PEOPLE.

As to his 'crying.' MANIPULATION pure and simple, he doesn't want to lose his nice 'cushy' place.

DO NOT listen to what words come out of his mouth, he is QUACKING. Every time he opens his mouth picture the Big White Duck in The AFLAC Commercials and just hear QUACK QUACK QUACK.

His ACTIONS, will show you how serious he is. Not only does one that WANTS recovery ASK for help, they start LOOKING for help themselves. They find AA, NA, check out rehabs, including the Salvation Army which is free.

So, you have to decide what YOU want for YOU. Do you want to live the rest of your life this way? There are no guarantees that he will find recovery. Do YOU always want to have doubts? How long do you think it will take you to start to 'trust' him again IF he does find recovery and do you want to live with him without trust until then?

Addicts/Alcoholics while in the troes of their addiction and into recovery LIE, CHEAT, and MANIPULATE to get what they believe they need to keep their FIRST LOVE, their Drug of Choice at their side, which in fact is their MASTER.

I know, I was one, and have been sober and clean over 27 years now.

This is no longer about him, this is about YOU and what YOU are going to do for YOU to make YOUR life better.

Please keep posting, venting, ranting, raving, screaming, crying, and yes even laughing to let us know how YOU are doing, we do care so very much.

Love and hugs,

suemarie

Oh Cessy, I was where you are at so many times. My exah did the very same thing. When I got fed up and told him we were "done" (several times) he cried, pleaded, begged, tried to compromise, all that. He tore at my heart strings, I couldn't bare to see a grown man act like this and felt he MUST BE SERIOUSLY IN LOVE WITH ME!! I was being such an idiot and heartless for kicking him out so I let him stay. I thought if he acted like this, it must mean he truly loves me and will do anything to keep me. UGH! what denial I was in. I so badly wanted him to get into therapy, rehab AA anything just to prove to me I was worth it. The first couple times I let him stay he didn't do any type of rehab, AA or anything but showed me how much more sweet he could be to me (MANIPULATION). This way he could have his "cake and eat it too".

At that those times I didn't see it. I thought since he was being sweeter than pie to me that we were making it work and things were "normal" again. Then weeks\months later BOOM it happened again, he disapeared, spent all his money etc.... I just couldn't believe it happened again!

After a few times of this and reading as much info I could get my hands on, I could then see the manipulation and "this is what addicts do"

Everyone is right about the ACTIONS, they do speak louder than words. My ex did end up in rehab but only because his family bailed him out ONCE AGAIN and it wasn't for HIM but for his family. So he really was just going through the motions and really didn't want to be there and really didn't want to give up his precious drugs and alcohol. These drugs are so powerful Cessy. If you stay, I am almost positive you will end up hurt many times like I was until I finally said "ENOUGH". Its been almost 6 mos now. I haven't heard from him and I just assume he is still doing his drugs and he will always be a druggie\alcoholic. I decided I didn't want a life with someone I couldn't trust ever!

He will most likely go through many relapses, are you ready for that? will you be ready for the next time he cries and begs to you? ITs a vicious cycle. The way I see it is, He means business to get clean when he is crawling on his knees into a rehab center begging( like he begged to you )for help. Thats what he really should have done instead of begging you to let him stay. Thats when you will know he means business and really really really wants the help to stay sober and he will follow every meeting, every rule, every book to make it happen. Until then, he's just quacking and manipulating.

Then my next question to you is, will you be ready to have your love life filled with him always gone and commited to the battle of sobriety? AA meetings, always on the phone with his sponsor, reading his materials, being a sponsor for someone else,etc... His life will be so wrapped up trying to stay sober, where will you be in all this? Not a very romantic life.

Well, I wish the best for you. Only YOU can make the decision on what YOU want for your future. I hope I am not sounding mean or nasty but I am just telling you my experiences with an addict and from what I see here and every board on the net, its the same thing with every addict, yours is no different, believe me! IT hard for us "codies" to accept this fact and if your like me, It took 'several' times for me to finally "get it".

I feel your pain and confusion, and I know what your going through, been there done that. Its the same thing we all have gone through.

Now I can look forward to filling my life with sweeter things, my own choices, no more worries over a bad relationship, no more addict "crisis's". Just making me happy in my own way, and if I get into another relationship again, I now have AMMO! I think I have learned something in all this and my eyes are wide open now.

Best wishes,

Ann

They want to be able to continue using and yet lose nothing. They would like us to support them financially and emotionally and overlook the lies, the stealing and the sick person they have become. They would like us to neglect our friends and families, hide the sad truth from them all, give up any interests we may have outside of "them" and just dedicate our lives to keeping them happy.

We can do that. I did it for my son for years. And I got sicker and sicker and sicker right along with him...he in his addiction and me in my codependency. In time, I am convinced we would both die.

I could not save my son, so I put him in God's hands and went forward to try to save myself. It was hard, it was dark times, and it was the best thing I could ever do for either one of us.

Today I live well, find joy in each day, even though my son has been missing for over 4 years. I can see beauty in nature, I can laugh again with friends, and I can live my life well instead of in fear every day. You can too. You have choices that only you can make, and only when you are ready.

Hugs

suemarie

Ann,

Well said. Though I am still working on letting go of my son (older son), its so hard to do. You missing your son for that many years is heartbreaking...

I feel since I haven't heard from mine in a long while now, I am wondering if I will.
I could see him struggling for many years and I never realized he was involved with drugs until his wife told me. I think he was trying hard to quit but I guess he gave in to the demon. I'm so sad over this and I keep thinking about if only I knew about all this before, what steps I could have taken to "save" him. I now feel its too late and I have to give him to HP and pray he finds his way out safely.

I'm so sorry about your situtation, my prayers are with you.

timetogo

My heart does go out to you Cessy -- I have been living this craziness for over 10 years now (maybe even longer, not sure). It has gotten really bad in the past 8 months and I now worry that he will lose his job, in turn losing our home, everything. I have finally decided that I need to go. His illness has robbed me of our friends, our families, money, and most of all, myself. I won't totally blame it all on him, I'm as sick, I have let him do it. But I refuse to "should" on myself and am trying to focus on "could" instead. I am scared to death but I'm tired of living every day of my life worrying about what crisis is next. Even if he did crawl into rehab tomorrow, I don't think I could ever ever trust him again -- he has lied sooooooo much. It makes me so sad. I have heard over and over and over and over that he will never do it again. I believe because I had hope -- it's gone now.

i have been with him for almost 27 years -- this would have been our 20th wedding anniversary -- I love him so much, feel sorry for him, wished he could have been the father my kids deserved and am so worry he will get so much worse after I leave -- or even die. But I don't have a choice -- I will die if I don't.

I have read such helpful posts here -- they are really helping me make my decision. please keep reading.
thoughts are with you
ttg

Blackrose56

I was once told that the addict really gets angry that we are so willing to believe their lies. That they don't want us to give them what they want. That at some point if we continue to "believe" their lies and the way they manipulate us...they lose respect for us. My ex and I got together because he remembered the way I stood up for myself when I was involved with his cousin. And that I was strong woman and would take no crap. And he was clean and sober 3 years before I allowed myself to ever consider falling in love with this man. And yes, he did relapse and I finally had to leave to safe myself. And yes, I've been gone 3 years and he has sunk deeper and deeper into his addiction. And yes, I still love him and miss him. But I do NOT miss the man he's become.

It's a tough decision. It's a fine line between enabling and supporting. And it's tough to set up boundaries and stick with them.

Do have to add one thing, though. My 1st husband was sober 8 years. Yes, the 1st year he spent all his time in meetings and with a sponsor. But after that we both lived the AA/Alanon life. We went to meetings, but I also had my husband back. We went to AA/Alanon functions and that was our life. But we also did those things that "normal" families do. It is a GOOD life. And if you live the program...you do not spend your time wondering if they will relapse..

I also have to say if my ex would get clean and sober and was going to meetings and had 1 year sobriety under his belt and was living the life he did when we first got together...I would let him into my life again. (castiously at first, but I would begin to trust again.)

But TRUE sobriety is the key. And the ONLY way I would ever allow him into my life again.

ZombieWife

As long as you keep staying (even when he's using,) he has absolutely no reason to stop. None. You're telling him that it's ok to use drugs and he'll have your love as well. What is your love worth? Is he cherishing your love? Protecting that love? Moving Earth and Heaven for that love?

You will never get "the old guy back." Even if he gets clean, goes into a program and stays sober for the rest of his life. He will never be that same person and you will never ever have the same relationship. I am telling you as someone who has been through the addiction with my Recovering husband, had him get sober and am still picking up the pieces after 18 months.

When he's using, you can pretty much expect things to be the same: the stealing, the lying, the using, the sleeping, the hyper behavior, the disappearing.

When he's clean you're in a whole new world. He's in a whole new world. He won't be "the old guy." He may return to normal behavior (to some extent,) but when he's working a program and recovering (and recovery lasts a lifetime,) he will change . . . in good ways, in bad ways, in ways that are neither bad/good, but different.

Let me ask you this. Let's say you were dating a man and you were treating him poorly, lying to him, cheating on him, yet he stayed with you. He LOVES you. He'd do anything for you. He'd hold your hand, take you in the car to meet with your lovers, enable your cheating. What would you think of him? Does that sound like a strong person that you'd be highly attracted to? How much would you respect him? Is that what love is?

Anyway, keep us updated. I know it's hard. You have to be willing to change along with him if he starts recovery. And it's a hard road. This part now is harder than when he was using at times. Building trust again is a difficult process: long and often painful. But, I'm glad I made the choice. HE had to make his own choice: to stop using.

cessy68

Thank you all for responding-

All of you gave me very good, supportive, loving responses that I could understand clearly.

Apparently this is because you have all walked in my shoes at one time or another.

I am going to sit here today and digest all that I just read and do some serious soul searching.

I had felt so guilty when he asked me if I was willing to 'walk away from a man I love - just because he had a problem'.

One of you pointed out- that there is a fine line between supporting and enableing.

This is very critical for me to see.....

The other thing that I have read before, and am struggleing with (hate to admitt it) is if I am willing to live a 'different life' even if he does get sober....
I aknowledge that he would become a different person, so I may never see the man I used to know ever again - regardless if he is sober or not.

It is sad. It is as if death is in front of me, when faceing the choices I have to face. Because that old person is gone- I guess for good with or without the drugs now.

I struggle with the image of him carrying on with his life, and others (mutual friends - business associates) seeing the old guy - and I wonder how bad I will long to see him, and 'pretend' that it wasn't 'that bad'.

This is a very complicated issue/situation, that I don't wish on my worst enemy.

I must now learn/understand that I truely will have to walk through this pain- I believe it is what I'm trying to avoid. I really have to look at the fact that I AM UNWILLING to feel that hurt, so I have been 'staying put' in this relationship, not truely having my needs met, settleing for the crumbs of good days, wishing /praying for it to just go back to 'normal', so that I don't have to feel the pain of saying goodbye to someone I love dearly.

I don't want to hurt anymore. I don't want to say goodbye. What a crappy way to feel. I'm crying right now, and my 'ghost' of a bf is downstairs, watching t.v. oblivious to the torment I am struggeling with.

I went through a lot to be with this man. I have had some failed relationships in my life, and I thought, 'this time' would be different. I really did have a best friend at one point. I felt I finally did meet the person that I could have it all with..... I promised myself that I wouldn't let this relationship fail. I promised myself I wouldn't walk away during hard times, like I had done in prior relationships.....

However, I never in a million years, realized that the problems I would be faceing would be that of addiciton.

I guess I'm supposed to be learning some kind of lesson. Perhaps I should sit back and ask god what is it that I was supposed to learn from this, and let go....

Thankyou all, It means the world to me, that you have taken your time and energy to put out this constant advice/wisdom/support to me.
Love,
Cessy

cassandra2

When situations are turned around like in the scenerio above it makes a heck of alot of sense. I really believe that in alot of the ways the addict doesnt respect the enabler. The enabler (whoever that may be) is the person the addict sees as being weak because they can get whatever they want from that person. That is why enablers are close family members. Addicts know at first that the family will help them with money or whatever they are seeking. And then it turns into the addict thinking that the CAN take advantage of us.

Personally when I realized that HE thought HE had the control THAT INFURIATED ME. NO ONE HAS CONTROL OVER ME.

Cess maybe you should start looking at it that way. You asked him to leave and that night he showed up at home again. He doesnt take you seriously. Step out of yourself and watch him. Step out and see his behavior for what it really is. Manipulation. Game playing. Lying. Look at those behaviors and you will begin to see the other person the drug addict.

That is what is so hard is NOT thinking that they are they same as they were before. Disect his behavior and you will see right away. Stop looking at him as the man you fell in love with. I have had to do that and it is much easier for me. I find myself getting upset when I think he still is the same person but then I do a realty check and realize he is still acting/being the same person. A "chemically clean" addict who hasnt learned to change the behaviors of addiction.

greeteachday

Someone in my Naranon group speaks of a situation in which he chose to ask the addicted loved one to leave. She later complained that he threw her out. His response was "I did not throw you out...I threw the drugs out of my life. You just still happened to be attached to them."

This always gets a laugh, but from my perspective it is true. I don't think it is about no longer loving the person or being mean or walking away just because he has a problem. Addiction isn't like most other things. That thin line between support and enabling can often be simply providing a soft cushy place for our loved one to keep using.

To me, actions speak. I can choose to physically detach - to say no to being involved with active addiction. That doesn't mean abandonment, nor does it mean I do not care. I care so much that I refuse to watch my loved one self destruct and to be a part of it by providing that soft landing. If my loved one chooses recovery and actions speak and I see, over time that there truly is change, then if it is meant to be, perhaps a relationship will be re-established. Perhaps not....Often life brings us other places and provides other opportunities. But for today, I just need to focus on what is best for me. Hugs

hope213

thanks for this post cessy. you have a lot of advice.adding my prayers

outtolunch

Cessy,
Just curious....how do your children feel about him? Do they know what's really going on?

cessy68

Hey outto,

No, they don't know at all what is going on. They don't understand why I am upset alot. They don't see any arguments, they don't see anything 'wrong'. If he is tired, they assume it is because he is 'tired'. (he works alot)

If he is 'happy', he truely looks like the old guy I always talk about. When he is high - he acts EXACTLY like the man I fell in love with.

With the pills, its easy to keep it secret. No smell, no stumbling, mumbling, slurring, that is why it took me so long to figure it out.

Also, i'm divorced, (and kids are in their teens.... ) they are so busy doing their own thing, either at dads, or constantly with boyfriends/athletic events.. etc.

If they knew- they would be shocked!!! Especially since my middle son has issues with anxiety attacts, and has fears about being around kids that are doing drugs etc.....
I took him to the hospital ER one night for stitches, from his wresteling match, and he freaked out!!! I asked him what the prob. was, and he said, "mom, all these people look like druggies, I don't like it here, I just want to go to our doctors in the a.m."!!!!

I thought to myself, "boy if you only knew someone in our house is constantly high......

SOoooooo, that is also why this has been hard for me. NOONE sees what I see.

It disquises itself so well, that I questioned myself constantly as well.

Hope that answers your question....
Why do you ask?
Thanks for talking/supporting me,
Love,
Cessy

bluebelle

Cessy,
Don't under estimate how much this effects your kids. They might not know exactly what is wrong, but they can sense the differences in him anyway. You are right that the pills make it really easy for the addict to cover up what is happening!! I think my ABF's friends & daughters were shocked when he admitted that he had a problem. However, just as it is tricky for us living with an addict, it is also tricky for your kids. I don't know what is best for you, but you may want to talk to your kids about this. They observe a lot, and they are watching you a whole lot--even if they don't seem like they are!!! I just know how hard it was for me as a kid. My mom had all these issues with drugs/pills/mental illness, but no one ever talked about it! My grandparents bailed her out when she was arrested for selling drugs. However, it was never really discussed in the family that she had a problem! That's back to the "elephant in the living room" thing where there is something going on, but nobody ever talks about it!

I'm not trying to give you a hard time--believe me. My boyfriend's daughters were living with us through his drug usage. I knew he had a problem, but I pretty much pretended it wasn't an issue. I know that this effected his daughters. They have a mother who attended AA, so they actually understood a lot. After he started the first recovery, he was honest with him about the drug problems. I think that is good for them--esp. with their experience with their mom. Unfortunately, his 20 year old daughter has her own drug/alcohol problem, but that's another story.

Take care and keep sharing!! Your words and questions really help me since our situations are so similar.

ZombieWife

Then he's playing things just right if you felt that way. Why doesn't HE feel guilty? For putting you in the position you're in? For destroying your trust? How could HE do that to YOU?

It is very much like a death. But, the core person can come back in some form or fashion. If that's who you love, who he is deep down inside, then I believe that part of a person can come back.

I'm so sorry for this. Nobody wants to hurt. (hug) And yes, they usually are oblivious. If my husband knew how much I cried, how much I prayed to God, how much I went through, he would finally understand. He does, as much as he can. At one point, I was so angry with him. I told him that when he died, my biggest hope was that he would feel all the pain I went through because of his using, the pain he caused others. He just blinked at me. He didn't know what to say (yeah, go me for being a moron and speaking so nasty.) But it's how I felt. I just wanted him to feel what I was feeling.


How do you think he would feel if he read what you were saying here? Does he know? I mean, really know how bad this is effecting you?

:ghug
:ghug2

cessy68

hmmmmm,

Wow, alot more to digest while I'm already working with a full load~

I know what you all are saying about the kids- but believe me, they don't know a thing that is going on with him....

It's not like he is here smoking crack in the bathroom- I'm not justifying what he does, I know it is wrong. However, I can't control if he swallows a pill during the day, or at night on his way home.

The ONLY reason I know, is becuase I see the ups and downs , because when he gets home, (late, he works till 9 or 10 pm) the kids are in bed, or at dads, and I see that he is 'happy' or reallllly tired/depressed.

I KNOW IT ISN'T RIGHT. That is why I'm here. I don't know how to explain it. The only example I can give, is one such as today. He was 'relaxing' watching t.v. most of the day. (obviously sunday, me and kids home with him). I NOTICE that he's quiet, but to others he looks like every other guy out there watching sunday football.

THEN I told him I needed ciggarettes and coffee. He said - "I was just going to get some @ the store, I'll get them 4u".

He comes home (I believe pills are in his car) roughly 25 min. later, and he is 'happy' guy again...........

Football is now over, and he helps make dinner..... He is talking to all of us, about school this week, our plans, how vaca was 4them. He talks to my sons gf and her plans for college...we all have dinner, he helps with laundry......."

He literally is sitting on the couch across from me right now having a sunday w/ my older son..........

Everything looks/seems 'normal'.............

ONLY I KNOW DIFFERENT.

p.s. as I said before, he has a business, he has great credit, he functions exceptionally well..................

Can anyone see why and how I am soooooooo confused?

Can anyone see why I fall into the trap of thinking 'it's not that bad'??

It's the intimate part, where I see the man I know slipping away, because I know a night like tonight isn't authentic anymore, it's the pills allowing him to 'feel' good. And i know
when he is sad, depressed,tired, not feeling well, it's the pills doing that as well.

Thankyou, each and everyone, for the support.
Thankyou for challenging me to see what perhaps I've been unwilling to look at.
If any of you could respond to what I just wrote, and perhaps gently give me some answers/insight to what I may be going through and why, and how to fix it, please, please do.
Love, and hugs to all.
Cessy

bluebelle

I understand your confusion!! I understand why you feel like it's "not that bad!!" My ABF's DOC is also codeine, so I understand completely!! It's great that you are on this site, going to counseling, etc. My ABF was addicted for 8 years before I told anybody, before I went on this site, etc. I kinda knew there was a problem. Of course, things got worse, and worse. They always do with addiction! He got to where he was slurring his speech, weaving while driving, and finally, stole pills from my grandma!!! Before that, I pretended to myself and others that nothing was wrong. I doubted myself. I doubted my instincts. I was feeling depressed and anxious--went to counselors--but, never told them about the pills!!! I hid it from all my friends, family...everybody. I slowly started isolating myself from people. I was afraid they'd see the changes in him--they'd realize he was "high." I invited less people over. We got together with others less. More and more, he wanted to stay in front of his computer or the TV while zoning out. We left gatherings early, we didn't do as much, etc.

I'm telling you this because the effect on both of us was so slow, I could hardly recognize that we were deteriorating.

That's where the books and this site have helped me. I'm trying to not isolate myself from others. Some of my friends know about his addiction. I try to tell him what I need. I don't know. I would love to help you, but I haven't been able to figure this stuff out myself!!!

All I know is that you need to take care of yourself. Don't isolate yourself. Ask for what you need. Accept yourself. Trust yourself--if the situation is uncomfortable--don't try to tell yourself that you're being silly, it's not all that bad, etc. I about went crazy during all of this!! I thought I was losing my mind--when in reality--I was just trying to adjust to a crazy situation.

outtolunch

Oh Cessy....

You and the BF have much in common. He is not ready to let go of the drugs and you are not ready to let go of him. And you know what.....that's OK if it's OK with you.

Can you accept him for what he is and the progressive nature of addiction? Can you let go of your expectations and thus your disappointments? Can you keep the focus on you and your kids and not on him and his addiction?