cessy68

Hi everyone,

I just was reading another post, and a member said they were addicted to opiates prior to turning to crack.....

Ho boy did that frighten me....

Is that typical with addiction? I had never thought about that before.

Sure, having a abf who is in denial about his drug abuse is bad enough. He says he can give up the alcohol, and coke he only does with his buddies, once and a while..... bla bla bla bla

For some reason he admitts a prob. with the pain pills- but still refuses to get help. Everyday I do believe he has the intention to do something about it, but I truely believe it is "easier" for him to just swallow a pill and say..."tomorrow will be the day I quit".

It is very sad to me. I have been working on detatchment, I am attempting to love him and let him go-

As I've said before, free the caged animal. He needs to fall flat on his face- all alone. I'm not willing to engage in any type of conversation with him about the following (when he will get help, why he continues to use, why he dosen't follow through on his promisise, etc.)

HOWEVER- I just read a post and I thought to myself Holly crap, what if he turns to crack next??????

Then I quickly said to myself, don't worry about it. Nothing I can do to control it if he does......

My question is, does addiction continue to go from one drug the next??

I don't want to even be concerned - as I have plenty to be concerned with as it is.........

But I am.

Any ideas or thoughts? P.s..... I still don't get the whole detatchment idea. I'm trying soooooooooooooo hard. I don't question him anylonger, I let him be. (for the most part)

I know I'm jumping all over the place here, but one example that I need to ask about is as follows:

He was on the couch watching a movie last night, I cuddled up to him and we talked like old pals, everything is fine, because If I don't bang him out about his "addiction issues" then our home is in great shape.

I FEEL LIKE THAT IS IGNORING THE BIG PINK ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM........
so what is detatching really supposed to feel like????

Please, any responses on either matter would be appreciated.....
Love
Cessy

BatzMaru

I read the same post about opiates to crack and had the same fear reaction.

I don't know the statistics on this, but my ABF has a friend who did progress from opiates to crack. I know he went from oxycontin to crack, I don't know if there were any intermediate steps. My ABF went from oxycontin, to heroin, to fentanyl. I feel lucky that he didn't progress to crack (yet), although feeling lucky is all relative these days.

ANGELINA243

If he doesn't have a "desire" to stop using....he will not stop using (period)! It is good that he has admitted to having a problem....but a using addict will not stop until they are ready/have the desire to stop. Of course, if you don't ask him about it..everything will be ok. You need to come up with some boundaries of your own of what you will/will not tolerate and stick to them. Do you have a support group..such as Alanon or Naranon? Lots of folks there who can help. Keep posting. Glad you are here.

cessy68

Hey anvilhead,

Oh my is right..... and what do you think about the latter part of my question. By me detatching, and not discussing bla bla bla with him, I feel like I'm ignoring the pink elepahnt in the room.

Is that because I'm the only one who sees or aknowledges the elephant??

Also, you are right about knowing what I want to live with and what I don't .

SO tell me please, why why why, do I listen to him when he says- "What's so wrong with going w/ the guys once and a while??" "what is your prob, I had 2 beers before comming home?" the statements go on and on.....

I buy it sometimes still. And when I don't buy it and "detatch"- the elephant is being ignored.......

I feel stuck back and forth, back and forth.

Also, I'm going to be honest, "party like a rock star" is exactly how he acts......

We even have a joke in our life- about a song that says "party like a rock star... " and we substitue his name for rock..."party like a $**star". It used to be cute till I realized he was an addict, and not just a fun social drinker.

God help me........
Love
cessy

cassandra2

Cess,

Before I start I am coming from the point that you have decided that right now staying is your option that you have chosen. I am not saying that is right or wrong Cess you know that we all have our own lives to live and whatever you chose I can only support you and try to give you my opinions when asked.

From everything that I have read about codependency issues this is a big one. You side step the problems in order to keep the peace. I guess detaching is more about not so much side stepping the issue but understanding that this is how today is and you are willing to accept that. Not expect anything nor by fixing anything.

Ignoring the problem (or as you put it the pink elephant in the room) would be like setting up a picnic when its raining outside. Detaching is looking outside and you see that its raining and plan accordingly. Maybe an inside picnic or something. I think there is a big difference in the two.

So I would say that its ok to keep on doing and living the life you are used to. Cuddling with him on the couch is ok you are planning accordingly. Detaching is not asking him about getting help, talking to him about the decisions he has made that you feel are wrong, arguing with him about his problem, trying to control the outcome of any given situation, looking for ways to get him to see. Detaching is all about choosing how you are going to react in any given situation. Saying that its his problem. Like what happened the other night. Arguing your point with an active addict gets you no where. Hampster wheel.

So I would try practicing how you react to the situations. Stop allowing yourself to be angry with his problem or with him being an addict. Oh you are gonna get high well then I am going shopping. Becoming indifferent is easier on yourself then being angry all the time

I hope that helps somewhat.....

Love to you,
Cassandra

cessy68

Perhaps I'm a gal with a 141 IQ, but clearly I'm not that bright,

BECAUSE I STILL DON'T GET THE PROCESS, here is why......

Planning accordingly about my reactions. Hmmmm. What I hear, is accepting things that I don't agree with.

what is the difference between staying with a drug addict and woman KNOWING her man is cheating, but rather than aknowledge the pain, the betrayal, etc. she dosen't say anything, hopeing that she can keep an untrustworty relationship together, and someday he will do the right thing??

what is the difference between staying with an addict, and a woman staying with a man who is a workaholic, and puts wall street and money before spending quality time with her and the family?

How do you not discuss the issues?? How do you just let them do their thing??

I'm sorry to sound so stupid or thick headed....
Love & thanks for responding
Cess

cassandra2

Cess you are still trying to believe/think that you can have a rational conversation with someone who is irrational with their behavior and using drugs/alcohol.

You have to get out of that line of thinking. If you cannot ask him to leave at this point then you need to surrender to the idea that talking with him about the pink elephant in the room will get you NO WHERE.

There is no difference in staying with a man who is cheating, using drugs, works to much, or is just a dud. No difference. But you have to ask yourself if I have chosen to stay in this relationship then I have chosen to accept that he is a drug addict and that he will NOT be rational with his thinking or behavior until he addresses his drug problem.

By you staying with him you are basically telling him that its ok for him to continue with this lifestyle. Not by words but by actions. He is still living with you. And with your words you are telling him you dont agree with him doing drugs and you fight with him about how he isnt there for you or how your tired of him putting other things ahead of you in the relationship. Those are two different stories....

If you stay then you need to detach. You need to accept him for what he is. Accept that this is the life you have chosen for yourself. And if you cant accept that then maybe you should really think about asking him to leave and try like hell not to give in on that one....

There is no easy answer here. I wish I could give you one. But you cant have it both ways. I am sorry sweets it just isnt gonna work like that. Decide for yourself what is more painful asking him to leave or allowing him to stay and detaching from his addiction.

Love to you,
Cass

cassandra2

by the way your NOT stupid or thickheaded....

Yes, you are hearing accepting things that you dont agree with. But I am not saying it to get you to say "well I guess using drugs isnt so bad". Thats not what I am saying at all. If your bf were a catholic and you were Jewish by you being with him you are accepting that he is of a different faith whether you agree with his religous doctrine or not. By being with someone of a different faith you are ACCEPTING that person for who he is regardless of what you think about catholicism.

Same thing here. You dont agree with abusing drugs but yet you are living with an active drug addict. So then you need to learn to ACCEPT him for what he is even if you dont agree with being a drug addict.

The reason you are having a hard time ACCEPTING this is because this isnt what you want in your life. This isnt the way you imagined spending your time in this relationship. You are going against youself in trying to accept the things that are happening. So you should really examine that. Remember I told you of my internal battle with myself. Sounds to me that you are going through much of the same. The only way we win the battle is to be true to ourselves.....

Love to you,
Cass

cessy68

Hey guys, thank you for the enlightening conversation..... two things I MUST respond to...

1.) Cass, You are right, I'm not sure which one is more painful- my therapist dosen't discuss "detatchment" with me, however one saying he is famous for is as follows: when the pain of leaving is less than the pain of staying- that is when you will leave, and for good.

2.) Anvilhead, LOL...... literally,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm @ work right now, @ a desk all serious, reading this dramatic (for me) post, and if you could picture me intensly reading....
waiting.... opening the next response..... waiting, gathering all my information.....
THEN your post, I start cracking up LOUD in the middle of my office!!!!! LOL thank you!!!

P.s..... Think I'll keep the elephant pink........ soooo pretty. lol.
Love,
Cessy
thx, everyone

cassandra2

I see your battle within yourself as being the most painful. You are trying to be something that you are not. Sometimes we may think its easier to stay and quiet the battle within ourselves but then really who are we kidding we only have ourselves to listen to and fight with day after day....

I know how hard it is but just know that you are getting better because you are seeking help/guidance through this rough terrain. You will get there I have faith and believe that one day it will just be to much to fight your self and he will be gone.....

Love,
Cass

Freedom1990

bluebelle

This topic is exactly what I've been thinking about! Have you been reading my mind and sitting in my living room? Because I can see the elephant right now and I have a really hard time not paying attention to it. Pink or otherwise.

I have a hard time balancing "letting go" and "denial." I don't want to pretend like nothing is wrong, because there is something wrong. I don't accept the way he is. I've seen him when he's in recovery, and I prefer that.

I'm realizing just how really, really hard it is to live with an addict. I knew it before, but I realize now that it is harder than I thought. No, I can't reason with him. His reasoning skills are gone. I can't trust him, that much is obvious. It has really, really hurt me to have lost that trust in him and to have my world pretty much turned upside down (again). I don't know how long I can ride this rollercoaster of recovery and relapse. However, I have seen people who have gone into recovery, who are working the program, and who have managed to have healthy lives.

Regarding crack: I think your fear is very reasonable. If an addict doesn't go into recovery, they are pretty much guaranteed to go downhill. The reasonable path for an opiate addiction is heroin. They can no longer get their high from the pills. If they want to continue the same good feelings, they have to increase the amount of opiates in their system. ABF's counselor really scared him when she pointed out to him that his next step if he continues on this path is heroin.

Of course, he also could move to another drug to try to continue the high. Or, he could take more of the same, or combine, or whatever. I guess we need to accept/realize that this is possible. We need to be prepared financially and personally for things to get worse. However, it doesn't do any good to obsess about this. I guess we need to take one day at a time and one minute at a time. We need to take care of today's problems today. For me, I do not want to live my life with someone who is addicted to pain pills--even if that is all it ever is. That's bad enough. So, I guess the question is, how long will I give him to change? Because that's what it will take for me to accept the situation.

Cessy, I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that I feel your pain, but I don't have any answers. I feel as lost as you.

jerect

It took me a while to detatch and it took me a while to know that just because I was detatching did not mean that I was ignoring the problem thinking it would go away... Oh I was very aware of the problem, I just chose not to let my AH's control my life anymore... I chose not to do anything that would cause myself insanity.. instead I created boundaries so that I could peacefully exists in my home and that my personal space and dignity was protected at all costs..

It took awhile for me to accept that things are what they are and I couldent do anything about his situation but that I sure could do something about mine..

detatchment takes time and it wont happen overnight but YOU sure have come a long way in such a short amount of time : )

I too had the same fear you did when I read the post about opiates leading to crack.. I think that my AH would choose heroin first before you would resort to crack just because he loves oxy's... however thats not to say that he wouldent go out and do crack if it was offered to him and he needed a fix... he is an addict and one drug is just as bad as another..

I read the horror stories about crack and I think ...Thank God that has not happend to him YET... I say yet because while I hope that he would never do that I also know that anything is possible with an addict..

winnie12

Cessy your struggle and mine are very similar. I'm not fully there yet but each day I get a little further. I think the biggest things were to learn that his problems were not mine - his actions I cannot control. I found it hard to understand how you can love someone but detach - it seemed like abandonment and completely against what a mom is "supposed" to do. I started slowly.

I first detached from giving unsolicited advice. He didnt ask for help so why try to help. Will it do anyone any good or will it just start fights.

Then I detached from answers. If he was trying to decide whether or not to do something (whether it was going to a party or chosing his schedule at school) I told him those were his decisions. Instead of giving answers I would ask him questions to help him decide. One day he asked if I thought he would get in trouble with probation if he went somewhere - I told him it was his decision and if he was concerned he should ask his PO. On his own he decided not to go.

First two steps were painless - the last was the hardest. When he got in trouble I had to detach from fixing it. This is the step i'm still working on and its the hardest for me becuase there is so much gray area. But my goal is that if he has a problem created by his own decisions then he will go through the consequences alone. I will not try to mitigate the damage.


There is one exception to this - if what he does affects my life or if he tries to control me then i have to address it. We are not doormats.

Limiya

This is how i personally detatch myself from my abf.

1: i dont live with him. (lucky for me)
2: i refuse to see him or have a conversation when he is using.
3: I never nag at him about the coke anymore. He knows i hate the stuff, and don't like being around him when he's using it.
4: When he tells me he's been stupid and spent all his money partying the night before i just shrug and tell him it's his problem.

I rarely sit and stress myself out over it anymore. I feel much calmer, and concentrate on my own life. He will do what he does, with me stressing or not.
I actually saw him the other night, and he was in the bar he works at (he just finished work), so i came to pick him up. He bought me a drink and himself one. He then had 2 tequilas and another shot. He said a little while later, that the drinks were just hittin him and felt a little tipsy. He said he could do with a 'line' now.
I immediately gave him a stern look and said 'no way. Not tonight. Not while i'm here.'
He just laughed, but didn't do a line.
I told him we should go get food rather than go drinking (he craves coke when drinking), so after we bought food, he was fine.

Also, now that i refuse to be near him or speak to him when he's using, he is now offering to take me out to other places where there is no partying involved and he'd be sober just so he can spend his time with me.
It's nice, seeing him make a little more of an effort to respect my wishes (to a point).

But i'm also finding myself tellin people i meet that i'm single. This has the biggest impact on my detatching. I never would have done that a month ago. But now i feel no guilt in meeting new people and going out without him.

That's just me personaly. I don't feel i'm ignoring his drug problem. How can i? It's always there. HE KNOWS IT!!
He is older than me, and should fix his own problems. If he doesn't, that's his perogative and not mine.

I sound cold today, but it's just my way lately.
I hope you find your own way of detatching. It's really a lot less stressful.

Also if i want to talk to him about the drugs, i wait until we are snuggled on the sofa, or in bed. He is calm and open to conversation. I asked him once if i could ask him some questions about the coke. He said sure. I asked him to explain to me how it makes him feel when he takes it. He described everything, from feeling awake, talkative, hyper, and high. Then i asked him how long it lasts for and how does the 'come down' FEEL??
He described feeling tired, depressed, and irritable for about 3 days afterwards. I asked if the high was worth the come down. he said no. And i left it at that.
No accusations, no 'if's or 'when' or anything. He just described himself to me, but also he was describing outloud to himself. He was quiet for a while after that.

Sorry i might not be of much help right now. But detatching is REALLY hard. But once you start feelin better, you realise it's working.

~Limiya~

Mavis

Cessy,

In regards to the "Pink Elephant" I coudn't stop seeing it in the room. A big lump everyday looking at me and got in my way all the time. I tried to detach, but I coudn't. Or maybe didn't want to really. I guess you could say that in the end I finally left the relationship because I put in just as much effort with detaching as he did with quitting drugs. None.

Karen

hello-kitty

I think that recognizing you have an elephant is only the first step. There is a progression that occurs naturally once you realize it is there - getting rid of it.

It's like being an addict. Once we truly accept we have a problem, we can't ignore it anymore.

sknyfats

My 2 cents to answer your question about the move to crack. Personally, I don't believe any substance is a gateway or stepping stone to another drug - in and of itself.

The issue here is - the addict is looking to feel a certain way. Whether it be to go up (feel fast, alert, pumped up, clearer headed (in their mind), etc), or go down (mellow out, get loopy, feel "stoned", make'em go to sleep, become lethargic, etc). Now, in my own opinion, I don't have a problem for the majority of people who can drink a beer or two - get a slight buzz - and move on with their life. Same with smoking pot - or anything else for that matter. I know - shame on me for that belief. Going by experience here. I've tried many different drugs. Some I liked - some I didn't. Not once have I gotten "addicted" or felt some massive urge to do it again & again. The drug addict I "love" - and those I've since met (funny - I seem to know a boat load of drug addicts these days . . .) have such problems that - they will try almost any & every substance to keep their mind in a certain state - different than most "normal" people who don't use drugs. I honestly believe that if "drugs" didn't exist - then our addicts would find something else to consume their lives in order to avoid reality & dealing with "life" - whether it be an activity, food, whatever. Drugs just happen to be both illegal & a deadly addiction.

I've seen & heard addicts say they would never do this drug or that drug...only to see'em try it once, and then try it again, and now do it "once in awhile". You can see where this is leading, right? Well, they can't. Or don't care.

My AGF is hooked on the perc's & oxy's; opiates. At least admittedly. She's also addicted to cocaine, but denies it. She's said she would love to try heroin, even though she hasn't. Said she's afraid of it (I think shooting up mainly - or the stigma of the words "heroin addict"). She said she loves crack. Doesn't do it every day. I never saw her with a "rock" - but I have seen her (and God pray for me), helped her - do what's called a "foily" - where you make a past with cocaine & cook it on a sheet of foil. Pretty much the same as doing crack...my reasoning for doing it was, well, she's on drugs, i didn't cause it, can't control it or cure it - so what difference does it make if I assist with it? At least we're doing something together & she's being "honest" with me & out in the open. How sick is that???

I'm a mess right now. I know. I'm working on that. But this isn't about me. This is about what YOU are going through & what your addict is going through. They will do things they thought they never would do. They will go from one drug to another drug in order to get the high they "need" to escape reality. They will change their habit to fit their financial situation, the current supply in their area, or just because of the other drug addicts they are hanging around. It's sad. It's deadly. It's definitely taking it's toll on me.

I said I've never been an addict - well, maybe not to any substances besides cigarettes - but I'm definitely an addict to this toxic love that I'm in right now. It's funny - how simple & clear the difference between right & wrong is. Everyone on this board will tell those of us who just got involved with an addict to run. Run fast. But, we don't listen. We see this garbage about "codependancy" mentioned all over the place - and dismiss it - thinking we're in control of our lives and are just "feeling our addicts out" - to see if there's any hope. In the mean time - our lives can & do start to spiral down. Alongside there's. Mine is.

If you are here - and you're even taking the time to ask the question, well - the big elephant in the room that is being ignored isn't anything to do with "him" - its about you. At least that's the case for me - and my belief for most of us who are wasting our time & our lives with drug addicts.

I just received the book Codependant No More in the mail yesterday morning. The weekend is coming - and I hope to pick it up & not put it down until I'm done. Right now, I don't believe my agf has much hope left for her. What's more important - and scarier - is that right now, I'm not so sure I can make it back to where "I" was before I met her. I've wasted so much time, energy & effort - wasted so much of my life - and created so many problems for myself - because I chose to ignore what other people on this board repeat over & over & over: Forget about THEM. Worry about YOU. Take care of YOURSELF. They don't love YOU. They don't love THEMSELVES. Anything & everything you're doing for them - in support of them or to help them is just a waste. It means NOTHING.

So - no, there is no natural order of progression from one drug to another drug. It all boils down to what's available at the time. But - from your stand point - why care? I'm asking myself that question. I KNOW this is an unhealthy relationship - in SO many ways. Forget the light at the end of the tunnel. Forget the "hope" or words they may use about wanting to be clean. You know if someone is drug free, or a casual drug user (ie, the occasional drinker or pot smoker) or an addict. There is a big difference between the first 2 and the addict. Don't settle for anything less than someone is one of the 1st two types of people.

Unless you've got some sort of legal obligation to keep a drug addict in your life (son, daughter, spouse, etc) - get out. NOW. Don't know how long you two have been "together" - but I've learned in a few short months just how quickly your life can go to hell...and how much harder it really is to "walk away". I am ashamed of myself. I obviously have very little self respect. I feel ugly & like a complete failure. I have a lot to do to get my own life back on track. And I was never addicted to "the drugs" - but to the drug addict.
I think I hit my rock bottom. I'm about to sell a prized possession of mine - just to bring my head above water financially - and to keep my home. I need to do more than to "detach with love" - I need to get the hell away - and fast. All the research & questions & learning I've done - it's gotten me NOTHING but added to the confusion & frustration. Hell, I think this site probably contributed somewhat to keeping me involved. All the talk of hope & knowing other people were in the same boat as me. That's what I chose to pay attention to though. I ignored those who spoke from experience, & from the heart - and told me to get away - and get away fast.

If you don't do drugs and drugs aren't normally in your lifestyle - than get away & stay away from them and everyone who's involved in them. Nothing good can or ever will come of it.

Sorry for the long post & my tone. I'm PO'd at myself right now. Very much so. I wish I would've listened to others - and especially to what I knew in my heart was right - every single time I did something wrong. Now I have a huge mess to un-do.

cassandra2

Congrats on taking the first step of admitting you have a problem with codependency. Its so hard to admit to yourself, let alone others, that you are in an unhealthy relationship and the longer you stay the more damage you do to yourself.

Good luck....

Lila

Sknyfats, I love your conviction

I dont have it though. I am doing great in the sense that I am on my own, doing things for myself and making my plans according to what I want in my life. My abf calls me once a day for ten minutes from rehab where he has been for three weeks and it sounds like he is doing his work, getting help etc. The catch tho, is that I have never been one to get off track! Im usually doing great. It is just this BullShiv that I get wrapped up in... I love my bf and every time we talk he thanks me saying how grateful he is to have me support him. I truly believe he is different, that he can change. This is his second time in rehab, the second time he lied to me about drugs ( or lied by not telling me, I also, assuming everything was fine, never asked if he was using behind my back) I guess what I am saying is that I am afraid too. Many of the people who post here sound like they have been through hell. I dont want to go through hell! So far what I have seen is bad enough... I feel abandoned. I cant stay in the present. he is telling me that he cant go out anymore to see music because its a trigger evironment for him. Is this the kind of life I want to lead? I have a lot of fun with my bf, we have what so many people want. How did this get ****** up? Why is he in rehab. Life feels like one big illusion and it is until the bubble is popped. I dont know how to say no in the present. I dont know how to say I cant do this and I dont want to talk, because maybe I do want to talk... rollercoaster for sure. All i know is that I cant do this again, and I cant ensure that it wont happen again unless I am not with him. I am not ready to let him go though, so what do I do? siiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhh