HurtingDad

Well, my AS is living in a shelter in NYC,getting by on 65 mgs. of methadone. This is after a relapse from 9 months clean in an. Oxford House, where he then disappeared in NYC for couple of months.

He was on methadone before he detoxed and went to Oxford House. He says he went back to it so he could stop using heroin.

Now he says he wants to switch to a methadone clinic in Philadelphia, Pa, get a room, job and start some classes in a college. Says he's afraid right now to get off of methadone. Of course he's looking for some help from me and I always said I'd help him move in positive efforts.

So I'm confused - do I help with this, do I set conditions such as "wean off methadone" then i'll help, or wean off onto suboxone then i'll help. or do Nothing. Damn....it's so hard. Some people do live meaningful lives on methadone or suboxone...

thanks...

Lynette57

My AD is on methadone currently. She used suboxone at first but it is cost prohibitive. (the patent expires OCT 2009) At first I was thinking she should get busy trying to get off of it. But since she has benn on it she has gained back the weight she was down (40 LBS) and is working through her emotional isssues.


I believe that for some addicts, they will have to take some kind of medication for years. But for me I am glad she is healthy and alive.

I know in Europe they allow people to stay on maintenece drugs longer than they expect here.

Only you know your son and what his personality is, I agree that we help with the positive steps, and step back when it goes the other way.
When she was getting off the OXY I withdrew from a 30 year caffiene habit, just to understand what she was going through. The idea of never using it again and the feeling of being wihtout it gave me perspective of what she was facing in her mind.

marle

Suboxone has really helped my daughter to live life again. But I know that there are people on this forum who have successfully used methadone to live good lives. Does your son have any kind of a recovery program that he is working. I am willing to support my daughter's recovery by helping pay for the suboxone and the suboxone doctor, but I do not help her with living expenses. She did live at home for a couple of months when she came back from the halfway house. She was able to find a job and get back on her feet somewhat. She has a ton of bills. She too is talking about going back to college but has agreed to wait until next fall when she will have more recovery under her belt. I found that sometimes she wants to have everything all at once, in which case I tell her that she must find a way to pay for what she wants. That seems to squelch some of her wilder ideas. Support in recovery does not mean financing his lifestyle. Hugs, Marle

blue pansy

When my RAD, 22 was first clean and out of rehab, she couldn't live here. There were too many memories, so she went to live where she goes to college.
But she was already IN the college, not just planning to attend.
She's still there and still clean after 18 months.
Does he know anyone in Philly?
Has he applied to a college there?
Does he know of any schools there he could attend?
Would a methadone clinic there take him?
If you're not sure it's really OK to say " I'm not sure" to him and see what happens.
Good luck with it all...
blue

Hurtbad2505

I think that your AS showing a desire to return to being a productive member of society is a wonderful sign actually. I don't personally think that being in a methodone treatment program is as dire as some seem to think it is. It sure beats the alternative in my book..!
I think that your AS showing an interest in his 'future' is a wonderful sign..as I know from experience, active addicts rarely 'look ahead' to the future.

Of course it's up to you if you think these efforts are positive or not, personally, I think any move forward is a positive one for our addicts. I know I've read 'somewhere' that if we don't feel 'good' about something we are about to do, it's best not to do it. Our guts are usually right on..what is your telling you?

Impurrfect

((Hurtingdad))

I have the same questions as blue pansy..does he know anyone there? I might consider helping him with a room, but with a time limit...as in "I will pay for this amount of time, but you need to find a job and support yourself". As far as college courses, IMO, he needs to do that on his own.

My parents paid for my first degree. When I went back to school for my nursing degree, I paid for it by myself. I was broke, the entire time, but I did it. Now that I'm going after my 3rd degree, I found an online school that only costs $42/month, because that's all I can afford. Of course, this is just my opinion. I just think we kids appreciate our education a lot more when we have to pay for it ourselves, and we take it much more seriously.

I also think that if he has to pay for it, he may take a little more time to get settled with a job and a new place to live. Marle is right..we want everything at once. We are used to instant gratification. I know I certainly didn't think that I would be struggling this long to try to get my life back on track, but I can see that it has been a very good thing for my recovery.

If I had gotten my life back easily, maybe I would have thought "oh, I didn't screw up as bad as I thought I had" and I wouldn't be holding onto my recovery for dear life. Struggling with bills and bill collectors and difficulty finding a better job makes me more determined to make SURE I don't screw up...I don't want to start all over again.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

greeteachday

It all sounds positive. I understand the concern about help/not help/how much help. I know I helped my kids too much even before addiction, I realize now that I robbed them of opportunities to succede on their own.

I'm not sure what the extent of "help" is, but from all you have shared, it sounds as if you have a healthy outlook and have let your son find his own way. I have struggled with not jumping in, even when my daughter isn't asking - I am proud of all the hard work she has done and somehow still have to stop myself sometimes from making it easier for her. What helps me is remembering the pride she has had and how much it has helped her self esteem to make progress on her own, at her own pace and in her own way. I see how her need for instant gratification has lessened too since she is learning to work for what she needs.

I don't see the methadone maintenance as an obstacle. If his actions are showing you that he is moving in a positive direction, than the path he chose is just that...his choice. I do like the idea, as has been suggested, of a semi structured plan that you both agree to...some sort of help over some period of time with a definite end and an understanding that it only continues as long as he continues to work on himself.

I'm glad he is taking these steps - I know it has been hard to see him homeless on the streets of the city. It's truly a loving thing you have done for him...strange at that sounds to those who haven't walked in our shoes.

sleepygoat

Hard to say. NA in my area takes such a hard line on both methadone and suboxone. They consider you using, not clean, if you are taking these. Many addicts have been "chased Out" of our area by this attitude. If my AD was clean EXCEPT for one of those, I'd be thrilled. You could pay for one class and see how he does....

winnie12

If you help him it has to be with lots of conditions that you know you can keep. Is he going to be closer to you? It may be easier for him to pull you in if you're closer. In that case, I would be sure that he isnt doing this to get closer to you so that you can be his savior.

Freedom1990

Well, first of all, I have zero experience in maintenance programs like methadone because crystal meth was my drug of choice in the end, so when I got clean and sober, it was no chemicals, period.

My concern is, what kind of recovery program does he have, if any, other than the maintenance with methadone?

Remember that the drugs are merely a symptom of the true problem.

That is, if we quit the drugs, the problem still exists, and if we don't address that problem, well the results are eventually abysmal.

I did stay clean/sober for 4 years, but because I did not address some deep underlying issues that eventually surfaced, and I became an extreme case of self-will run riot again, I relapsed.

I don't know anything about Oxford Houses, but I am thinking they gave him some tools to work with in regards to continuing recovery and working on his issues?

My oldest AD is still on probation and is not currently doing illegal drugs. However, she's working the doctors and is on a cocktail of medications including xanax, and that's good enough for her.

She never has, and I don't think she ever will, get honest and address the true nature of her problems.

She also has serious mental health issues, and I have very minimal contact with her.

Lynette57

I have 2 very dear friends who are addicts with over a decade of clean time.
The NA line has been no methadone or suboxone. These people do alot of work and support of this organization and are seeing major increases in herion use due to the OXY being so available.

When I spoke to them about my AD and NA and that maybe they were chasing off people that could use there support, it was something they never thought of.

ALot of addicts take meds whether for bi-polar or depression.

If the addict want to get help and takes methadone or subs, and they come to the meetings I would think they could get alot from the group.

My AD still says she wishes she didn't have to take the methadone.
I reminded her that she is still chosing to take that and not the other stuff.

So I beleive that NA will at some point understand that evrything cannot be black and white. If an addict is working on getting clean they will stick around and if not they wont.

outtolunch

Why Philadelphia? How will a change of location make a difference in his life?

Is there some kind of structured sober living arrangement for those on Methadone maintenance?

NeedingHelp7

I talked w/ a Dr. once about the methadone thing. He said some do need it long term. I didn't agree, but what do I know. This was the same Dr. that had AH (a narcotic addict) on zanax (an addictive benzo) for years. AH went on suboxone, but didn't last. He said he hated it, and went to another Dr. for his opiates before long.

I would give it time. Your son hasn't been there long. Philadelphia is huge for heroine.
I'm sure NYC is too, but be careful. I wouldn't recommend sending him to same bigger cities.
My AH is from Philly, where he used heroine in his young years, and was homeless there for some time.
He moved from there to our smaller town when his brother rushed him up here fearing he would die in Philly. AH subsitutes drugs now, and gets the opiates any way he can through pills etc.

If your son wants to move somewhere, I would recommend a smaller city with a Rescue Mission rehab center and structured housing for those in recovery.

NH7

HurtingDad

It is a shame that NA frowns upon methadone or suboxone. My son goes to NA inspite of that, and even found a sympathetic sponsor.

It's very rare to find a 1/2 or 3/4 house that will allow a resident to use meth/sub. They don't consider it clean, and it tests dirty in p-tests.

Why Philly? - Everything in NYC is do damn expensive, plus my sons tells me there's people he has to avoid in NYC - whatever that means. There's no doubt there's drugs available everywhere, every city - you just don't look have to look as hard in the bigger ones.

thanks....

marle

I live in a very small town in northeast michigan and there are drugs everywhere here. If my daughter wanted drugs, she would not have to look hard for them. The dealers bring them right up the I-75, US 23 corridor. So big city, small city, if you want drugs you can find them. The old timers in my daughter's AA group frown upon talking about drug use and my daughter is not an alcoholic yet. There are many people cross-addicted and it is too bad that that is not taken into account since there are no NA groups close enough for her to attend. Hugs and I hope you find a way to help your son without getting in too deep. Marle

hope213

i personally think it is about people,places & things when it comes to staying clean. i would think that is why your son wants to leave the area. as far as school goes so many put there self thru college. i would set boundries whit that also. he needs to accept responsibitity for himself. you could help for awhile if you want to but to a limit. prayers for u both.

Impurrfect

(((Hurtingdad)))

I think I understand what your son is saying about staying away from some people. Even though I can easily get drugs, here in Atlanta, I don't have my known connections..they are 2 hours away. I would NOT go back and live in that city for that reason.

Another thing to think about...just as we can find drugs in any city, big or small, we can also find recovery...it's all about what we want the most.

My niece's best friend's mom is on methadone and has been, for quite a while. I really don't know her well, but both the girls say she is a whole different person (in a good way) and they do frequent drug tests to make sure that's ALL she is on.

I hope you both find something that works. I can only imagine how hard it is to live in NY, right now, with the economy.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy