Don"t Know What To Do

Old 11-23-2008, 02:32 PM
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Don"t Know What To Do

I recieved another letter from my son yesterday. For people who don't know my son has been in and out of jail the lst 7 yrs due to stealing and his addiction. In June he was sent to wk release, found a job, got fired and because of that he was sent bk to jail. He wanted to hire a lawyer which he did. My ex told him he would buy his car & have his cousin pay Joey's lawyer. ( the car was going to be hers ) The lawyer charged a thousand dollars & he got Joey sent back to work release. This time my son was blessed enough to find a job selling cars even without a license which is very hard to do. He wked there 5 days & on the 5th day ( a Friday ) he arranged to leave wk at 2pm and not tell wk release. A girl picked him up & he never got bk to wk release until 9 hours late. They sent him bk to jail again. Then my ex never took the car. He had the nerve to ask my dad if he would sell it & I guess send him the money. My dad has possession of the title which is still in my son's name. I told my son & my ex that I was taking the car and holding it here for my son . I told my son if he wanted to sell it and use the money for an apartment when he gets out it was ok.
NOW my son says in his letter that his lawyer came to see him out of the blue & wants another $800 on top of the $1000 he pd him last time to get him home. I guess that means no wk release ( I just thought of that.) He promises never to steal again saying 17 months is too long to stay in jail for $24 worth of steaks. He is so off base. He thinks the reason I am angry is cuz he steals. No the reason I am disgusted, and don't know if I should help him or not is cuz he uses cocaine. He has written & told me the last nite he didn't go back it was cuz one line turned into 20. I am sorry if my post is confusing. He is in trouble cuz this has happened over & over again for the last 7 yrs & he never learns from his mistakes. He got so much time NOT for $24 worth of steaks but cuz he is a repeat offender with a long rap sheet & he is not only breaking the law over & over but he is alsoo violating his parole.
He glosses over all of it, he fights & fights to get out then does something wrong to put himself back in again.
Your opinions would be welcome, he wants me to sell the car & hire him a lawyer.
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:51 PM
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I am so sorry that you are going through this. I dont really have an opinion to offer. Havent been down that road of consequences with my ex. Not yet atleast.

Take care. Praying for you and your family.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:00 PM
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Hi Diane, Do you ever wonder if this will stop?? I do~~Daily! Even though my son has never been arrested for his addiction I still wait for that day. It scares me but I have told Chris not to call me if he is arrested and with all the years of our helping him~~I'm not sure if he would. Now back to your son.....If your going to be paying this lawyer with the profits from the car I would give him (lawyer)) a call. What did he do with the thousand he had up front. Whats the $800. for?? You'll have to decide what to do here but things don't change if you keep bailing him out. I know its his money with the car and your just the inbetween guy here but I would want to know whats the money for...where will your son go if he does get out?? I seriously feel that they should live in a 1/2 way house for 2 years....and work. Its so hard and my heart breaks for you hon. Everyday seems to be a challange for us moms. Hang in there and hugs, Bonnie
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:22 PM
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Thanks to you both. The thing is Bonnie the car was originally bought with money scammed from my parents. He left 2 88 yr old people outside of Family Court went in one door & out the other. He didn't deserve the money for a lawyer the 1st time. Then he doesn't seem to accept reality, He meses up every time he gets a chance. I have no warm feelings left for my ex & feel he owes my son as he has never done anything for him but the truth be known I didn't want my ex getting him a lawyer originally. I wanted him to handle things on his own, and accept the consequences of his own actions. The problems are drugs & the whole lifestyle that goes with it. I really don't know what I"m going to do.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:24 PM
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I am so sorry you are in this place. I know from very hard experience what this is like. I posted a bunch of stuff on the thread "Need advice - AS selling drugs".

So here I'll just say what I didn't say there....

First, I have to tell you that the public defender my niece had the first time when she was charged for first and second degree felony possession was a way more qualified and competent person than the "slick" lawyer her boyfriend got for her when she violated probation. (my niece lived with us and she like a daughter to me)

In both cases, the judge did what he thought best and the lawyer had very little influence other than making sure my niece understood what was happening and the impact of her decisions. In fact, public defenders usually know the judge, p.o. and prosecutors much better and have more influence with them.

Therefore, my suggestion - don't give him money for anything at this stage. Even if it is for the lawyer, that is not your problem. I learned after a lot of stress and strife that if my niece's HP wanted her in jail, I should stay out of the way.

Second, there is never any ambiguity about the consequences of certain behavior - like not getting back to the workhouse in time. I know this from the time my niece spent there. So, when your son left work early and was 9 hours late, he knew the risk. That just shows you the power of his addiction - and his desire to beat this wrap is the addiction talking again.

Therefore, the best thing in the world for him might be to be in jail (not work release) for long enough to be away from the drugs and girls, etc. to contemplate his choices.

My journey with my niece has been about 5.5 years and right now she's in jail for 7 months and I sleep better at night knowing she's fed, she's warm and she's not using. I honestly can't tell if she's going to make it or not this time, but that is up to her.

If you are not going to Nar anon or Al Anon family group meetings, please find one for yourself. There is so much wonderful support and infomration there, it saved my life during the worst times.

Prayers that you can find strength and peace
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:27 PM
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Thats practically the same letter he sent you several months ago.

Sounds to me like he NEEDS to STAY in jail, hasn't learned a damn thing yet.

If it were me, I would throw the letter out and not answer it, sell the car and give the proceeds to the grandparents he scammed.

It's time this 'man' got the FULL brunt of the CONSEQUENCES of ALL his actions, and that won't happen until you just say NO. Oh and btw, NO is a complete sentence. No explanations needed. Just NO.

It's all BS in my book. He's QUACKING AGAIN.


Love and hugs,
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:13 PM
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I agree with sounds like he's just feeling sorry for himself again. He knew when he did the first line of coke, he was doing wrong, and he did it any way. He was given the PRIVILEGE of work release and he chose to do coke and get sent back.

The only thing I differ with on Laurie's advice, is selling the car and giving your parents the money, and only because your son has been able to manipulate THEM so well and would try to do so again, to get the money.

In my opinion, I would NOT do anything to help him pay this lawyer another $800. Your son is right where he needs to be, and he has a long way to go before he sees his own actions caused all this. He keeps focusing on the steaks, but he's totally missing the big picture of all the other stuff he has done.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but I'd let HP handle this one and keep out of it, if it were me.

Hugs and prayers!

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Old 11-23-2008, 04:34 PM
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'No' is a complete sentence, Rozied.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:04 PM
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Hi there (((((Rozied)))))
Before i even scrolled down to the replies, what i thought immediately as I read what your son wants, is just what Freedom said..."No is a complete sentence." I think you have a similar feeling, since you said even the first time around he didn't deserve the $$$ for an attorney.
I think your son needs to loose his sense of entitlement before he is ready to hear anything. That's hard to do when each time he asks, someone gives. You've been doing so well...I know it is hard, but keep doing the next right thing for you. Hugs
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:30 PM
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I'm sorry I forgot my manners! I meant to hug you too, Rozied! :ghug :ghug
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:52 PM
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What's done is done. He is in a safe place. He, like most addicts, has a self destructive streak, a mile long. It's time for him to take responsibility for his own life and outcome. Give him the dignity to make his own decisions, without interceding on his behalf.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:58 AM
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First off thank you all for being here for me. I am sitting here agreeing with all of you. I feel the same way. When he messed up bk in June in Wk Release I refused to lift a finger to help him get out. He did it all to himself. He then sits in jail writing letters, giving orders, making everyone else jump through hoops, and burning up the phone lines to anyone who lets him, trying to get out.
He ran up over a $500 phone bill on his dad's cousins phone in 2 mts then was mad at his dad cuz he could not then afford to buy him the clothes he promised cuz his dad had to pay that phone bill. My son still doesn't see it is his actions bringing all this trouble on himself. He had gotten wk release in June & was due to be paroled Sept 10th then he got into that fight at wk which was considered mis conduct by wk release & was sent bk to jail. He also lost his parole. Then he started with the lawyer. Selling that car & having his dad hire the lawyer. Well it cost $1,000 & the lawyer got him bk to wk release. He was blessed enough to find a job a very short distance away from wk release & this job was in his own field. So what does he do, make plans to go out, uses coke & gets bk 9 hrs late & is again sent bk to jail.
The way it stands now ( as far as I know ) is he must seve out 2 sentences. One is up June 27th ( his brothers B Day ) and the other sentence ends Dec 25th 09. Then he will be finished & he will be free & there will be no parole.
Doesn't he see that his actions hurt everyone else in our family??? He then sits in that jail, watching tv & wants everyone else to do things for him to help him get out. I am so sick of it.
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:21 AM
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Is it EVER their fault? This is just the most frustrating part for me. How can they possibly go through all of this and not see that they had something to do with it.
My AS's dad says he just hasnt had anything bad enough happen yet - i know he's probably right but how can 4 jail sentences, 4 trips to hospital, OD, and rehab in one year not be bad enough.
Sorry if my post wasnt helpful - I guess i have no words of wisdom because i'm trying to figure this out too - just wanted you to know you are not alone.
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rozied View Post

Doesn't he see that his actions hurt everyone else in our family??? He then sits in that jail, watching tv & wants everyone else to do things for him to help him get out. I am so sick of it.
Is it possible that outcomes have shown your son that all he needs to do is sit back, watch TV and express his wants and needs and someone in the family comes through for him?

So long as family takes care of him and his business, as if he were a child, he has no reason to take responsibiity for himself.

Someone's mama used to say " You made your bed, now lie in it".

And yeah sadly, that sometimes includes soiling the bed.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:47 AM
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Hi Rozied, typical addictive behaviour to blame everyone else. I know it's hard but if we don't start making them take responsibility for all of there actions, nothing will ever change. Be kind to yourself hugs!
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:03 AM
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I think what outotlunch said really says it all. Some of have been spoiled since birth and don't know any different so we expect someone to pick up the pieces all the time. But some of us never had anyone pick up anything and we have had to take care of everything if we wanted it done. I think if he sits long enough he just may help himself when he sees no one is going to wait on him hand and foot. Tough Love.....
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:18 AM
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I dont buy all of that blame the parents crap. I never spoiled my son. I tought him to work and be responsible. It is just in his nature to be selfish - always has been. Even as a toddler he was demanding and threw temper tantrums like i've never seen from a child. i never gave in to him but he never stopped trying to manipulate and never gave up because he is stubborn and has always had a sense of entitlement. Sure sometimes parents can cause children to become spoiled and needy but that is not always the case. I have two children and have raised them both the exact same way and they are polar opposites of one another. Our society is teaching kids that they are little princes and princesses who never loose and when he doesnt get what all the other princes and princesses he knows gets he is furious at me.

I'm sorry if i came across harsh but i for one and tired of being told that my son's problems are my fault. I did the best i could, I raised him with morals, tought him good values and he has still chosen to take the path he is on. It has nothing to do with me or how I raised him and has everything to do with him and the choices he has made.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:36 AM
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your absolutely right winnie, and i dont know who is telling you that your sons problem is a direct result of your parenting but they are craaaazzzzzy!

I am an addict myself and I remember one conversation I had with my mother back when I first checked myself into inpatient rehab and my family became aware of this problem of mine. She started crying and told me she couldnt help but wonder and think that somewhere down the road she went wrong and did something because I am a product of her and my father. I looked back at her and said as easy as it would be for me to blame you and everybody else for the sh1t in my life....whats wrong with inside of me...and i have to either control it or it will control me.

Just wanted you to know that you did do the best you could and sometimes it doesnt really matter much, a person is going to do what they want to do despite what they have been taught, what morals they were raised on and what beliefs they have spiritually. I pushed away everybody in my life who wanted to help me for so long and continued in drug dealing and using until I was ready to quit for myself.

sorry i didnt mean to threadjack and specifically reply to just winnie but just wanted her to know that she isnt at fault for her sons addiction in anyway at all.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:59 AM
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Thank you Ex D-Boy

sorry if i went off topic too but its a sore subject for me and one that has caused me a lot of pain over the last year. Its actually one of the things that my own parents in the beginning thought and that my AS likes to throw in my face all the time - all of his weaknesses are inevitably my fault. everything comes back to me.

Rozied to pull this back on topic - inevitably this is his life - his problems - his consequences. It hurts us because we love them and want them to have a great life but if doesnt choose a great life then there is nothing we can do. If he wants to play the victim all his life then just like my AS, he will be living like this all of his life.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:08 AM
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Hi Rozied. Just keep doing what your doing. No enabling. ;-)

My ex is still in jail. Well he was released last week. But they moved him back to county to face charges of DUI and hit & run.

His mother, I am sad to say. Is out of her mind! Some crackhead girlfriend of his came up with $1000 bond for him and his mother co-signed to get him out. I can't even believe it. He hasn't done a thing for him mother in the last 7 years. The only time he talks to her is when he needs something and if she doesn't give it too him, he hangs up on her and won't call her for months or years - until he's back in jail. Then she is his best-friend again (when she puts what little money she has on his books). And my ex has a long long history of running when he is not in jail. He's just stupid when he gets high, so he always gets caught. This has been going on for years.

It's so sad to see his mother be treated this way. But I can't change it. Poor woman is all doped up on anti-D's and valiums etc. She lives in a rundown single wide trailer, is 65 years old and works in a hotel laundry. Her husband is dead. And her son only takes from her - he never gives. It breaks my heart. But it's her choice to do it I guess.

Anyway, I digress.

He's not out yet. But probably will be before thanksgiving. It's taking all my strength not to go down to the jail and ask him if he plans on seeing his son. But I'm not going to do it. Because he needs to be free to live his life the way he chooses. I can't change him.

I guess that the point of my story is: We can love them. But we can't change them. We can't control them. We can't cure them. Most importantly we must not enable them. As you can see, until they run out of enablers, the chance that they will get better is very very small. As sad and disgusting as their behavior is, it's not ours to own.

The children of addicts children suffer so much. My little boy did an exercise at shool for Thanksgiving last week. The kids drew a picture of what they are most thankful for. He drew a picture of me and his father. His teacher told me he said he is most thankful for his daddy.

That made me want to puke considering his father doesn't give a rip about him and hasn't seen him in over a year.
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