splendra

I think anger is a defense of fear. I don't think addicts are so much angry as they are afraid. What are they afraid of? everything IMO. They are afraid to live and afraid of dying, they don't know how to live, they are fakes and, they are afraid someone might find out how afraid and what a fake they really are. So they go into their own little world where they can hide and not have to face their fear where they can fantasize about how great and powerful they feel.

They have to be very dishonest with themselves and others in order to keep up the charade to be that seems awfully fear producing...

Chino

I think the root (science) is understood pretty well, but I don't think there's enough communication between them and psychology. I think if people had better access to both sides, like a specialist combining the fields, we'd have a lot more success.

I have anger issues I have to work on all the time. It was a sleeping giant and PTSD woke it up. My adrenaline doesn't surge all the time but it's very quick to boil. I learned so much of that is genetics and that's made it easier to deal with. I'm Native American and most of my tribes were nomadic until a little over a hundred years ago, so my fight, flight, freeze response is still on high alert. I've finally learned how to manage it, but it's taken a long time and a lot of education, therapy.

Thankfully my RAD's therapist pointed this out to her too. It's helped her understand partly why she gets mad so easily, and she works at managing it every day. 80 years ago, anyone in my family would have probably just hopped on a horse and/or gone hunting, fishing, berry picking, etc if we were mad. Something productive because the rest of the tribe wouldn't tolerate anything less.

sknyfats

The question isn't really "where does the anger come from?" - it's more about why does a person deal with anger in the way they do. THAT is, in my opinion, the underlying cause of addiction - whether it be to drugs, booze, sex or chocolate.

People do things repeatedly to get a certain result. In our cases, our addicts are trying to cover up one feeling with another feeling that the drugs provide - and the drug lifestyle of and in itself provides. It' like bungee jumping; people get a rush. So they do it again. Even if the drug itself doesn't get a person high, the behaviors - sneaking around, being covert, doing soemthing "illegal" - all of that - contributes to the feeling the addict wants & is different than a particular feeling they may be having that "normal" people don't require an addiction to cope with.

Am I making sense? I hope so. I know I can ramble. It's such a shame that right & wrong, and dealing with emotions are not taught in schools. Since marriage - and relationships with people is an accepted & expected practice (generally speaking) in our society, you'd think there would be SOME effort to teach ourselves healthy & unhealthy things as far as when it comes to relationships.

I don't think there's any denying that childhood & prepubescent years are so formidable & provide the backbone to most adults expectations of life. Yet, most of us don't make a conscious effort to raise our children with that in mind. Instead, we break our children. And, as they get older, they deal with things the only way they really know how - or figure out on their own, too often, with devastating consequences.

I went to an 8 day program - just for kicks - called the Hoffman Quadrinity Process. I call it an "emotional literacy" program. There are many other similar things - including all of the 12-step programs - that have a common theme - which is, our selves & our higher power are the only things that can and will dictate the outcomes of our lives. We too often give that power away to others - and blame them for our anger, feelings, etc, which is simply not true. Anyway - I didn't even BEGIN to care or think about "how I felt" and analyze "how I deal with things" until I was 34 years old. 34! I went to that Hoffman thing a year after my eyes began to open, when I realized how, even though I've never been an "addict" or anything, that the way I thought about some things, the way I dealt with things - just so much was so very screwed up. But - it's what I grew up believing since I was a child. How different my life could be if I had been educated in a different way at a younger age. How different my life is NOW that I have learned so much since age 34 too.

As for what about people who are angry & keep things stifled - my AGF mostly does that. She doesn't talk. She has been extremely passive aggressive at times. That is, she would be upset with me and, instead of raging on me, or talking about it with me, she would do something or act in a way, behind my back - that I would probably never even find out about - in order to deal with her anger. Sounds weird - but its not uncommon.

The reason you often see people referring to someone's anger & rage on here is that is because it's something we DO know about & witness - and often don't understand WHY the addict is acting in that way, and we know we need to "talk it out" - and "deal with it" - even if they can't or won't.

I think when our addicts are quiet - that's the time we're trying to analyze things, trying to figure out what they're up to, what their intentions are, etc...it's a calm period...not necessarily good or bad - but "quiet" for us. When they blow up again, or do something extreme, that's when we find ourselves back here, again - venting, searching, trying to deal in a healthy way.

Neverwanted

Splendra - fear..ok...that is understandable. I am meditating on this - ty

splendra

Why or how can you meditate on what someone else is doing or feeling? I am sorry to say but to me it seems to me like you are worshiping your A. You say you are polytheistic. I guess that means your A is one of your gods. It is obvious that he takes up a lot of space in your head.

The only thing with the Anon meeting that I can really sink my teeth in is the "keep the focus on yourself" train of thought. This is the way out of the pain.

Trying to figure out what is going on inside the head of an addict is maddening. How can there be any sense in their thought process? There is none. Drugs are their god. Seeking the dope is their religion and it appears that you trying to figure him out has become your religion.

Believe me I know where you are at it is an awful place. It hurts really bad I know. He is not worth it. Find the God that loves you and will sooth your hurt soul. You deserve so much better and I am sure your children do as well.

I am wondering if we can turn away from what your A might be feeling and start looking at what you are feeling. Are you angry or afraid?

Neverwanted

I was meditating on YOUR input. As this forum is a place to do so. Is it okay if I do so? Sheesh.

Worshipping my ex A? How pleasant. Yeah - I dont think so. I am here posting like everyone else is for feedback and I took yours into consideration. I dont see why you would write something that cold. Again - that was uncalled for.

If you would like some information on polytheism, I would be ever so happy to point you in the proper direction to learn more about it. Again - making fun of someones religion is uncalled for. One of my GODS - as you put it - is not my A anymore than YOUR GOD is YOUR A and I would NEVER presume to make such a narrow minded, cruel statement. UNCALLED FOR.

Yeah - he took up a lot of space in my head and I am working towards making that change. Perhaps death from addiction does not take up space or cause grief and damage and long term pain for some - for me it has - AGAIN - thats what this room is for - or perhaps I got it wrong and we are all here to talk about how well adjusted we are.

Trying to figure him out is not religion. Its how I handle things. If you take a look around a lot of people and posts ask WHY and HOW. Im sorry if I pissed you off by responding in a way you did not like. I am here for calm, polite help - not slamming my religion and making crude comments towards me because I dont share yours.

TY for the counsel as to looking towards myself. YES I am angry. Who involved with an addict who has lost a life and finances and so forth is NOT or has not been angry? If you havent been - then kudos for you. Angry hurt and recovering. I love when people bash the person who has been victim - choice or not - to the addict. That willl teach me to open my mouth and ask for help.


I am leaving this forum. I dont need this

TY for those who helped me just the same


Cass and amy you guys were wonderful. TY

Good luck in your futures

splendra

yea I guess because what I said hit a nerve it means I am cruel and unfeeling. I have found that the stuff that hurts the most in dealing with addiction is the truest.

I have spent a whole lot of time worshiping my As, I mean trying to figure out where they are. Believe me I was angry as all get out the person who suggested that I had made my Addicts a god yeow it hurt and I got very defensive....

cassandra2

Its unfortunate that these types of things are being said on this forum. We are all here for encouragement, support, help but most of all UNDERSTANDING.

I have spent alot of time trying to figure out what is going on in my exabf head. Because I DONT understand why he does or says the things he does. Does that mean that I am worshipping him? I dont think so. This is all part of a grieving process and we have to give ourselves time to think about whatever will get us through this process. NW experienced a death because of her A and that is alot more then just a breakup or letting go of an addict. She needs to be able to process those thoughts and feelings. And its not up to any of us to tell her she is wrong or the way she is allowing herself to think is wrong.

Splendra you said yourself that you got very defensive and was hurt when someone said the same thing to you the you are now saying to NW so if you knew that hurt you why would you do that to someone else?

When I first came here I was seeking answers. A month and a half later I feel I have found the answers but still need the support. I still spend alot of time thinking about my ex. But that is for me to decide when to stop.

Cant we all just get along???????

NeedingHelp7

There were many times I felt I was worshipping my AH disease, anger, withdrawing, pill use, medical/mental health. I was obsessed. I felt I could fix him or lead him in the way to being fixed. So many times it consumed my mind and my time trying to figure him out. So I understand this process.
I finally realized how sick I was when I went to Alanon, and came here. I always have had faith in God, but letting Go of my AH and letting God was very difficult, and I still have to do it on a daily basis. I didn't want to be without him. I loved him deeply with my whole heart. I didn't want son to be without him. I was given no choice in the matter.

NW, I hope you don't leave. Keep coming back.

Huggs,
NH7

splendra

When the person said this to me they did not say it to hurt me but, to wake me up and
bring some reality to my obsessing mind. The burr was already sticking me before the person said anything I just could not feel it. I was still so into my mode of thinking there was something I could do to change my addicts. I welcome someone pointing out to me that I am not looking at because I know I will grow from it even if it hurts to be made aware. The 1st stage is denial in grief then anger....

This is something I have learned about addiction: there is no understanding what they do or why they do it and the more time I spend on trying to understand them the more time I waste on getting myself together. My trying to understand them IMHO actually draws me deeper into the muck. I have 5 active crack addicts in my life and both my parents were addicts and the 4000 some odd post(twice that many have been lost to crashes btw) I have here prove I have earned my spot here.

I have seen many "I am never coming back here" post( I think I wrote a few myself in the beginning)on this board not all of them were in response to what I had written.

I did not make her pain, I did not cause it, and I can't cure it either. For now maybe it is easier for her to blame me than to look at herself.

cassandra2

True you did not make her pain but sometimes when we shine the spot light on the source it causes more pain.

I seek knowledge in EVERYTHING. I seek to understand from all angles. This is what makes me strong. Knowledge is POWER. The power that I can use to diffuse all the bs that he creates. I dont believe its a waste of time because for me its helping me get through this.

Everyone is different. We come here because of most people in our everyday lives dont have the knowledge that can be found here. I respect everyone's opinion and experience. I want us ALL to learn from each other.

I now understand why you said what you did. I hope that NW comes to read this and has and understanding of why you said what you did.

Thanks for your post.

splendra

I hope you wouldn't want a surgeon to have that attitude. No matter how scared I am I hope the surgeon is not afraid to go in and get the bad stuff and I hope they use a light. Better to have a clean cut than a dirty jagged one with a dirty dressing.

I don't think it does cause more pain. I think it can bring awareness of my pain that I am running from by looking at what someone else is doing instead of what I am doing to myself. Denial is the hardest part to get over. If I focus on what the As in my life are doing instead of myself I can spend light years of my precious time wading thru the endless BS of the As in my life.

I think the real bottom line of why the As are doing what they are doing is because they want to.

If any of them(in my life) were minor children I might think differently but they are all adults capable of changing their minds and choosing another path the fact that they do not change their minds does not mean that they do not have a choice.

I want to add that I also used drugs and drank myself into oblivion for long enough for it to be a problem. I did not have anyone trying to figure out why I did it except for myself the rest of my loved ones were busy using themselves so actually I was more a part of the family when I did use. I am glad I did not have anyone but myself to worry about why I did it cause I am sure it brought me out of it quicker.

If other peoples using stays my problem it may never become the person doing the using problem. The more I focus on them the more they don't need to.

Addiction is cold and brutal and it is glad for someone who does not use to become a part of the problem rather than the solution. It's tendrils are far reaching and sometimes I have to use a sword in order to cut it off and sometimes I get wounded in the process. My wounds can heal if they are lanced and brought out in to the light. They get worse if I cover them the dirty dressing of trying to understand what my addicts are doing and why. This helps me to understand why surgery is sometimes necessary.

I hope NW comes back too. I am sure she still has a seat here if she wants it. I will be glad to keep it warm for her. Maybe my choice of words was poor but my intent was not malicious. I do understand the pain. I wish I didn't....

DrDisco

I also believe that the anger can come from drugs and drugs alone (although I also agree about self-medication in some cases). You can become an addict from simply doing too much. You can start off as the most happy, normal, well adjusted person and, over time, turn into a monster. And then there is no talking to you.

wooforever

Splendra,

You are very self centered person. If I had a surgeon I would hope that he never feels comfortable going in to get the bad stuff out. Every case is different, you never know what is there until after they cut you open. But with you how far do they have to open you to make you have an understanding of other people.

Maybe you have grown to be a cold and heartless person. I will never want to be like you.

What you said was not called for. Why are you so angry with what people are feeling towards their A.

I think you need to think about what or how you approach people.

splendra

Who ought I be centered in if not myself? I appreciate your input. I hope you never are like me too. I am not angry at people. I feel a lot of compassion for people struggling with an addicted loved one.

splendra

I am truly sorry for the pain that ((((neverwanted))))) feels. I am also truly sorry for the pain that brings us all here to this place in cyber world.

I hope with all my heart each of us finds healing and peace.

greeteachday

I think as was mentioned here, that sometimes the intent of posts may be hard to read in a printed format. When there is face to face sharing, it is easier to see the look on someone's face; to understand the fact that she wants to share her experience in order to help another. Having known Splendra and her kind soul here, and not being directly personally involved with the subject of the discussion, it is easier for me to see the intent and to appreciate the honest share.
That being said, I would like to remind members that we aren't here to pass judgement and tell people "what they are." Let's use the principles of our forum as we read and post. If a member says something you don't agree with, it is fine to just take what you want and leave the rest. I know I have found that sometimes I am just not ready to hear something, but later, it makes all the difference in the world.

londonvanpelt

My friend of 20 years is a recovering alcoholic. I remember her seething with anger because she said she hated her husband and she wished he was dead. I was shocked at her rage. I seriously thought she was deranged and was kind of scared for her husband. I thought she may kill him. Later it came out that her husband was having affairs and was addicted to pornography. That was the biggest shocker!