winnie12

I have a question for everyone - something that really bothers me.
I know addiction is an illness - I completely understand how the brain works and how it is genetic - i've seen that all for myself and in my head i believe it but i cant seem to feel the same way about it.

For example - I've seen my son in hospital several times. Once for his diabetes and the other times for suicide threats and finally OD. when he was hospitalized for his diabetes i felt completely different then i did when he OD. I never left his side, I worried about him, talked to doctors, was completely engaged in helping him get through it. But when he OD I was so angry that he did that to himself. After 10 hours at the hospital watching him in a very scary and delusional state, I went home. When he was transported to another hospital they actually had to argue with me to get me to come talk to the doctor (it was 3 a.m. and i was very tired and angry). I went, talked the doctor and didnt go back to the hospital until he was ready to be released - I just couldnt find any compassion in me towards him.

I cant seem to get past the fact that even though i know its an illness its something he is doing to himself. I see other kids in the children's hospital that have cancer or other life threatening diseases and it just makes me furious at my child because what would they give to have the chance at life while he throws his away.

My neice (13) was killed in a jet ski accident a few years ago. My AS uses her death as one of his excuses for using. I know this sounds terrible (i would never have the nerve to say this if it werent online) but deep down inside i wonder why one kid who doesnt care about his life is living while another child who loved life was taken. I love my child and dont want him to die so please understand this is just a dark thought that i cant help having. What would she say to him if she could? The odd thing is he later told me that when he OD he hallucinated about her being there. I refused to speak to him about her or even let him explain when he told me because these thoughts had been in my mind so much that night that I just couldnt bear to hear him use her to make me feel compassion for him. I loved her too and wont allow him to use her life as an excuse ever again.

So if its an illness then why do i still feel like its a character weakness in him and not that he's sick?

caileesnana

Society's view of addiciton as well as our own religious and family beliefs shape our opinion.

I have moments to where I question the same things. I have learned that the only thing they have control over is not picking up the substance. Once they pick it up the control is the substance.
There is alot of good stuff going on in the study of addictions. There is help and hope.
susan

mooselips

(((winnie12)))
I understand your feelings. Especially when I was working at the hospital, I had examples of fine young people fighting for their lives, and my son kind of tossing his away, so yes, I understand. And when I think of all the young people being killed fighting for our country, I have those feelings.

But, I guess the bottom line, IMO, is God knows what he is doing, everyone has a purpose, and everyone has their own battles to fight.


I pray for your son, and all of our loved ones....

grateful2b

Winnie, my daughter fought her battle with two cancers when she was four and won...
now she is fighting a different battle...... with alcoholism...
I went through a period where I was so angry that she was throwing away a life that she and I fought side by side to save....
my way of viewing this is that this is another challenge God has placed in her path ...I know he has plans for her and this is a part of those plans....
prayers for you and your son... Grateful

hello-kitty

It's a mental illness that gets reinforced by a persons behavior. When a person changes their behavior they can control their addiction to a particular substance. But the addiction to the substance is always there and can come out at any time if a person doesn't do what is required to prevent a relapse.

It's sort of like diabetes I guess. With healthy eating and exercise many diabetics can control their illness. But if they choose not to eat right and exercise, then the diabetes can rage out of control and could possibly kill them. The eating right and exercising is a choice... being diabetic is not.

getr345

Personally, I do not but I can accept that some people have a harder time with it than others and some may be more prone to it's effects and to it's gripp than others but an illness? No. I don't think so.

Jody Hepler

I used to struggle with trying to understand the disease concept of addiction/alcoholism. It was in my period of "if I read enough books" I will figure this out and be able to fix everything.

I finally just had to give it up and move on to my codie recovery. Trying to analyze and figure things out - that was a huge part of my codie stuff.

I heard this and it fit for me: If it wasn't a disease, insurance companies wouldn't pay.

Love in recovery,
Jody Hepler

winnie12

I guess others have struggled with this. I like the diabetes comparison because that's been a problem too but only if he refuses to take care of it. I would never be angry at him for being diabetic but i do get upset when he lets it get out of control or does things that can cause himself complications. That helped and i'm going to try to look at it that way - thank you.

grateful2b

I should have added that I view Alcoholism as a disease...my AD can choose to get help for her disease, but she first has to recognize it is a disease, and that she needs help...
for me, that is the defining moment...between addiction and say diabetes or cancer...addiction is a disease of the mind...as well as the body...

hello-kitty

Yes, but why are some people more prone to the effects of drugs and alcohol than others?

Wait let me answer that... ;-)

Because we are all hardwired differently. Just like some people are hardwired to be more susceptible to diabetes, heart disease and other commonly accepted diseases, some people are more susceptible to becoming an addict. That is the illness.

As an addict, my brain is just a little different than yours. Because when I drink or I use drugs I just can't control myself. Oooh. The escape. The high. Not having to worry about anything. I can just be high and happy. When I use, I short circuit and I just can't control myself. I get so f---ed up and I can't stop. It's not my choice to be that way. It just is what it is. It started out fun. Then it was fun with consequences. Then it was all consequences. That's when I quit. The consequences were too much for me. I was left with no other choice. Thank God no one was trying to help me quit or babying me about my addiction. It would have been too easy to keep using had someone made it easy on me, or worse, felt sorry for me. I needed a little tough hard reality.

I had to accept that I cannot use drugs or alcohol and I had change my behavior so I could be a (relatively) normal human being functioning within the realm of acceptable societal norms - not a hooker trying to support her crack habit, stealing from her family and screwing over everyone who loves her.

winnie12

I appreciate your honest responses hello-kitty
understand that i'm trying to understand this better so that i can deal with it in a healthy way for myself and my DS - if we dont ask we dont know. so these comments are meant to inspire healthy conversation to a better understanding. I know that i'm probably wrong factually in a lot of the feelings that i have.

i relate to the hard wired thing - my son was abandoned by his AD at 5 and didnt see him for 10 years. so imagine my amazement when his voice, his behavior, his interests all exactly mimicked this man who he never really knew. down to the point that drew a symbol of a moon/star that represents me/him and he wanted to get a tatoo of it not knowing the whole time that his dad has this exact tatoo. (maybe some subconscious memory but he freaked out a little when he met his dad and saw it). here he is now with the same exact behaviors as his AD. The closest they have lived to each other in the last 10 years was a few weeks ago when his dad was in jail (dui) and AS was in YDC on the same street. so genetic/hard wiring i get.

But all that considered, we all have some hard wiring that is messed up - either by genetics, disease, upbringing. Isnt it every human's responsibility to try to overcome those things. I have some horrible faults and habits but I have to overcome those things especially if they affect other people's lives or destroy mine. I have a horrible temper - looking at my family i can see its either genetic or learned. My dad says "this is just the way i am and i cant change/not going to stop." that's just a cop out to me - I say "this is the way I am and I need to change/have to stop."

I see the disease but i also see it as a conscious act to engage the disease. If you're allergic to shellfish do you go eat lobster? of course not - so why does my diabetic son get drunk or do drugs when he knows full well it could put him in a coma? I just dont understand that part. For him, drugs/alcohol will eventuallyy mean death or worse a vegetative state - it just doesnt add up to me.

hello-kitty

I wasn't actually doing that before I quit. But I could have been... :-)

I think you are absolutely right about that. I guess that's why they call it a disease. Because it's something some people never overcome. They just succomb to it and eventually die from it... or end up in jail or some other type of forced sobriety.

I guess it won't ever add up to you because your not an addict. It totally adds up to me which is why I enforce my boundaries. I know there are no limits to what an addict will do to continue his/her addiction. And there is no way we can get them to stop before they are ready. That's why it's important to focus on what we can control - ourselves and our behavior, and not what we can't control - other peoples bad choices.

My addict ex is someones ds. She couldn't help him. She had to save her self. Poor lady. She lost a lot trying to save her son from his addiction. And he still doesn't appreciate it. And he still uses. And unless he quits he will die. He has done prison many times. And you know what's worse, he's still not grateful for anything his mother has done for him. It's so sad. But there's nothing you can do.

Anyway... I'm just talking about my situation. Not trying to project on yours at all. Except for that I'm sorry your son is an addict. But you can't stop him. All you can do is take care of yourself until he hopefully stops himself.

hugs. :-)

Chino

I can think of a few reasons. He's 15 (?) and his frontal lobe isn't anywhere near done developing, so he does stupid stuff. He hasn't faced enough consequences. He thinks he's invincible. He hasn't accepted his diseases. Peer pressure.

I knew someone with Type 1 diabetes when I was a teenager. I can't tell you how many times he drank himself into shock. He just wanted to be like everyone else. He finally stopped drinking when he got his girlfriend pregnant and married her. 22 years later they are still married, have three children, and he hasn't touched a drop.

His mom understandably was worried sick about him. When she asked his friends to please not drink with him ("You're going to help kill him!"), every one of us listened. I'm not saying that's what you should do, I'm just saying it was effective with all of us because we needed that reality slap and we cared.

You both have my prayers. I saw her face and heard her voice again as I was typing this

hello-kitty

Yikes. 15? How depressing. I thought he was an adult.

bodychek

My take....

Webster's dictionary defines disease as, "a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms". For me, in this context it was easy. I have a condition of one of my parts (my brain or mind) that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs (I did stupid things, I wanted to kill myself, I destroyed my family, etc.) and symptoms (I alwasy thought about drinking and when I drank one drink I could not stop).

Too many people (me included) think/thought that this was something I could "control". Ask the millions of practicing and recovering addicts/alcoholics what kind of control we had. Nearly all of us, whether we admit it or not, experience the same things.

I struggled with the "disease" concept until I read the simple definition. This is just yet another aspect of my sobriety where I had to stop thinking and analyzing and just accept it. This allowed me to open my mind to the treatment, which is a spiritual awakening through learning the principles of the 12 steps.

My worst day now is better than my better days then...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"my mind is a terrible thing, and it must be stopped..."

winnie12

Yeah Chino - you're right, you're right I know this stuff - doctors have told me, i've read it, seen documentaries on it - I know this stuff but just gets my "adult mind" so mad sometimes. I think i'm having an angry day. (isnt that a step in the grief process and isnt acceptance next?)

I do talk to his friends - he hates it when i do it but he knows anyone he goes out with has to get my speech. I honestly tell them what each drug/alcohol does to him. I dont like it but i do tell them if they HAVE to do something smoke pot because that wont send him into shock. I then explain to them what to do when he has a seizure - call 911 first and ask for fireman to come, then if you are afraid of the law run - I dont care if you run and i wont turn you in but save his life and call 911 first. some listen - some dont. Most do get him to an adult when they think he needs help and he says that some of his friends make him test his BS while they are partying. i guess its better than nothing.

hello-kitty - yes I agree it is depressing. i dont know what to worry about more. I had three docs sitting around one time. Endocrinologist/physician/psychiatrist and they were all arguing about what came first - the diabetes, the depression, the dangerous behavior. They are all combined and they are all feeding off of one another. I hate diabetes and I hate drugs - the two together is mind-boggling.

winnie12

bodychek - that definition is good. i'm a book person so thanks for that

Impurrfect

I agree with the above, especially the part about his age.

My niece is 15, and thinks she's invincible. She told me, a couple of years ago, she was smoking weed and drinking liquor "'cause I don't like beer". I had to think of my response for a while, rather than lock her up and throw away the key. Every single person biologically related to her has problems with alcohol/addiction. I'm not sure about her mom (my stepsister) as her mom died at 18 in a car wreck, but I'd heard she'd been "experimenting". I've talked to her about it, at great lengths, and focused on what she was most worried about...that my dad, stepmom (her grandmother and guardian) and best friend's mom could be locked up for child endangerment if she gets in trouble. This, after telling me that the cops had been called to her best friend's house, and Brit talked to them while "high as a kite"..I told her the mom would have been locked up that night. Since then, I haven't seen signs of her using, but I worry.

I will also say that I was an RN for 12 years, mostly in ICU/ER. Crack terrified me, as I saw 2 twenty-something-year-olds die from it..one of a heart attack, one of a stroke. I used to get furious when someone would say "my life sux" and want to drag them to the hospital and show them someone struggling to stay alive.

I still became addicted to crack. I had abused other things (pills, alcohol) and quit them fairly easily, when I was faced with consequences, never craved them. I thought I could do the same with crack, but I couldn't. It totally took over my brain and I walked away from my nursing career TWO DAYS after starting it, and got my charge that same day.

For me, personally, it doesn't matter whether it's a disease or not. I just know that if I start looking for "something to numb me", I am in a dangerous frame of mind. It's my choice whether or not I pick up, but if I make the choice to pick up, my brain won't see any other options until I am out of money and/or locked up or dead.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

bodychek

No problem winnie...

The other thing, for the people close to us your innate instinct is to try to control the situation by talking to our friends, getting angry and yelling at us, thinking/telling us that we have no self control or will power, and the myriad of other common things our loved ones do. The thing you have to remember, both for your sanity and for his disease, is that we know how you feel. We usually feel shame and guilt that we want to stop, but can't and when our loved ones are hurt the shame and guilt are just compounded.

Put it this way, we drink/use because of the shame/guilt/resentment/etc. inside us, when we drink/use we build up more shame/guilt/resentment/etc. which causes us to have that uncontrollable urge to drink/use. You can see how this vicious circle turns into a downward spiral. We all must hit our own bottom before we are made ready to seek treatment.

I have never met an alcoholic or addict who is in AA/NA/rehab because things were going well in their life......

Have you sought Al-Anon for help for you? You can learn how to be supportive and keep your sanity.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"my mind is a terrible thing, and it must be stopped..."

PeaceTrain

Well, Winnie, I have gone around and around on that matter myself. My ideas on it are not conclusive. I suppose what matters is that help is out there and we have to try to get help for us and our loved ones. (if they accept it) I have just finished reading a book, which is probably every parent's nightmare, but for parents of addicted children it is very close to our reality. The book is called Beautiful Boy by David Sheff.
The more we can get addiction issues out in the forefront the better - that way more resources will be allocated toward this -- disease --