Fighting for Custody
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
Maybe there was some progress today. My sister called again to talk more about how much she wants her daughter back.
The standard conversation goes like this:
Sister: I miss her so much. I want her back with me. I wish I hadn't agreed to this custody arrangement.
Me: You'll have her as soon as you finish your program.
Sister: Yeah, but I can't get off the OxyContin, only the other stuff. I need the Oxy for my pain. You can't keep her from me because I need the pain meds.
Me: Well, we'll see. I have to talk to the director about that because there are some concerns.
Sister: Oh she doesn't know anything. And if she tries to stop me from having my daughter back I'll be fighting all of you in court!
Me: I see.
Anyway... same conversation tonight except for one thing. My sister started with a new opener that went something like this:
Sister: L, I want to say some things but I need you to understand that it's not about me not trusting you with my daughter. It's just about me and my own fears.
Okay, so that might not seem like much in Normal World, but my sister doesn't live in Normal World... she rarely even visits. So for her have the presence of mind to say something so rational and appropriate was kind of ... shocking.
Pray please let her continue to surprise us in good ways. Amen!
The standard conversation goes like this:
Sister: I miss her so much. I want her back with me. I wish I hadn't agreed to this custody arrangement.
Me: You'll have her as soon as you finish your program.
Sister: Yeah, but I can't get off the OxyContin, only the other stuff. I need the Oxy for my pain. You can't keep her from me because I need the pain meds.
Me: Well, we'll see. I have to talk to the director about that because there are some concerns.
Sister: Oh she doesn't know anything. And if she tries to stop me from having my daughter back I'll be fighting all of you in court!
Me: I see.
Anyway... same conversation tonight except for one thing. My sister started with a new opener that went something like this:
Sister: L, I want to say some things but I need you to understand that it's not about me not trusting you with my daughter. It's just about me and my own fears.
Okay, so that might not seem like much in Normal World, but my sister doesn't live in Normal World... she rarely even visits. So for her have the presence of mind to say something so rational and appropriate was kind of ... shocking.
Pray please let her continue to surprise us in good ways. Amen!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
I will continue to send hugs and prayers for you, your niece and your sister.
I had to laugh about her rarely visiting the normal world. My friend, who has BPD, usually has so much drama in her life I often wonder if it's real. I know it is, though, because I will ask her about it later and get the update. But, then I also remember, there is a lot of drama in MY life too, I just handle it differently. I look at things as challenges...she looks at them as "OMG, what do I DO?"
Fortunately, she listens to me (doesn't always do what I suggest, but is getting better). I'm also grateful that she has been there for ME, when I'm struggling. If nothing else, I can call her and she can make me laugh.
Having someone with BPD in your life isn't easy, but honestly, it sounds like your sister is making baby steps in improving the situation. YOU handled the conversation great! "I see" and "oh" are darn good responses sometimes...it lets them know you're not going to get dragged into their drama...whether it's an addict or an addict with BPD.
She's going to have to learn (like it, or not) that it takes more than love to raise a child. A child also deserves to have stability in their life...and you are giving that to your niece.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I had to laugh about her rarely visiting the normal world. My friend, who has BPD, usually has so much drama in her life I often wonder if it's real. I know it is, though, because I will ask her about it later and get the update. But, then I also remember, there is a lot of drama in MY life too, I just handle it differently. I look at things as challenges...she looks at them as "OMG, what do I DO?"
Fortunately, she listens to me (doesn't always do what I suggest, but is getting better). I'm also grateful that she has been there for ME, when I'm struggling. If nothing else, I can call her and she can make me laugh.
Having someone with BPD in your life isn't easy, but honestly, it sounds like your sister is making baby steps in improving the situation. YOU handled the conversation great! "I see" and "oh" are darn good responses sometimes...it lets them know you're not going to get dragged into their drama...whether it's an addict or an addict with BPD.
She's going to have to learn (like it, or not) that it takes more than love to raise a child. A child also deserves to have stability in their life...and you are giving that to your niece.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I'm coming in late on this thread, and let me say that I have huge admiration for you and how you have handled all of this.
I am blessed to have a job as Business Manager at a wonderful rehab (men only at this one) here (small city, Ontario) and that I recognize so much of what you have related. Here are a few observations that I share hoping it helps you and others understand a little more...keeping in mind that all rehabs are not the same and that all people who work in rehabs are not perfect (but most are well qualified and experienced at handling recovering addicts and often have years of recovery themselves). My job is about running the business, but I see and am privy to all the information about the residents and the counseling and treatment. Ours is a long-term care facility with residents staying an average of 6-9 months or up to a year with the last few months where they can work and still stay there while they prepare to rejoin society with good support in place.
This is how it is at our rehab, and the facts may differ somewhat from place to place, but my personal observation is that they all are similar in these areas...
Residents sign a form coming in where all medical information is available to us including history and ongoing care. Family or friends may or may not be privy to information about the resident, depending on the resident's approval or not.
Prescription medications are kept and disbursed by staff and signed in and out each time any dose is issued. We have doctor's reports on the need for any medication and are aware of what and how much each resident is taking. Drug testing is done when they arrive to set a baseline and then random testing is done and if anything new has been taken or if there is an increase in test result quantities, it is spotted. These tests are done by professionals and cannot be faked or confused by any of many methods addicts have found to try to beat or fool the tests.
New residents, even those with a fair bit of clean time coming in, are often restless and emotional the first few weeks, adjusting to new surroundings and beginning to face sober the damage they have done to themselves and others through many years of addiction. Staff and residents further into the program work with them to try to encourage them to stay with the program and give it a chance.
We don't get very involved with issues such as child custody but may be asked to present a report on the resident's progress in recovery. The rest is left to lawyers and the courts.
Residents are our prime concern, family information is given only with the consent of the resident or by court order.
As residents begin working through their own issues, which often include their relationships past and present, they may go through a roller coaster of emotions. The more they work their program, attending 12 Step meetings from the day they arrive and through counseling in house and outside counseling with psychiatrist who specialize in specific issues that often affect residents (their history of sexual abuse, mental disorders, anger management, family of origin issues, etc), the better they get at accepting what is, and taking responsibility for healing and trying to make the future better.
And finally, the staff here is excellent at spotting BS and discerning truth from fiction. Where residents may feel they are unique, staff has seen and heard many of the stories before and are rarely conned or deceived by good behaviour or bad. We tend to see the residents at their best, in recovery, but clearly recognize that the person they were before and the person they can become again if they are active, are very different yet only a relapse away.
I share this so that you, and others here, can rest assured that what you hear from your addict may or may not resemble the truth, depending on how their recovery is coming along.
Again, my heart and prayers go out for you and your sister and for the sweet child who is so blessed to have you in her life, protecting her interests and being her legal voice.
I hope this helps in some small way.
Hugs
I am blessed to have a job as Business Manager at a wonderful rehab (men only at this one) here (small city, Ontario) and that I recognize so much of what you have related. Here are a few observations that I share hoping it helps you and others understand a little more...keeping in mind that all rehabs are not the same and that all people who work in rehabs are not perfect (but most are well qualified and experienced at handling recovering addicts and often have years of recovery themselves). My job is about running the business, but I see and am privy to all the information about the residents and the counseling and treatment. Ours is a long-term care facility with residents staying an average of 6-9 months or up to a year with the last few months where they can work and still stay there while they prepare to rejoin society with good support in place.
This is how it is at our rehab, and the facts may differ somewhat from place to place, but my personal observation is that they all are similar in these areas...
Residents sign a form coming in where all medical information is available to us including history and ongoing care. Family or friends may or may not be privy to information about the resident, depending on the resident's approval or not.
Prescription medications are kept and disbursed by staff and signed in and out each time any dose is issued. We have doctor's reports on the need for any medication and are aware of what and how much each resident is taking. Drug testing is done when they arrive to set a baseline and then random testing is done and if anything new has been taken or if there is an increase in test result quantities, it is spotted. These tests are done by professionals and cannot be faked or confused by any of many methods addicts have found to try to beat or fool the tests.
New residents, even those with a fair bit of clean time coming in, are often restless and emotional the first few weeks, adjusting to new surroundings and beginning to face sober the damage they have done to themselves and others through many years of addiction. Staff and residents further into the program work with them to try to encourage them to stay with the program and give it a chance.
We don't get very involved with issues such as child custody but may be asked to present a report on the resident's progress in recovery. The rest is left to lawyers and the courts.
Residents are our prime concern, family information is given only with the consent of the resident or by court order.
As residents begin working through their own issues, which often include their relationships past and present, they may go through a roller coaster of emotions. The more they work their program, attending 12 Step meetings from the day they arrive and through counseling in house and outside counseling with psychiatrist who specialize in specific issues that often affect residents (their history of sexual abuse, mental disorders, anger management, family of origin issues, etc), the better they get at accepting what is, and taking responsibility for healing and trying to make the future better.
And finally, the staff here is excellent at spotting BS and discerning truth from fiction. Where residents may feel they are unique, staff has seen and heard many of the stories before and are rarely conned or deceived by good behaviour or bad. We tend to see the residents at their best, in recovery, but clearly recognize that the person they were before and the person they can become again if they are active, are very different yet only a relapse away.
I share this so that you, and others here, can rest assured that what you hear from your addict may or may not resemble the truth, depending on how their recovery is coming along.
Again, my heart and prayers go out for you and your sister and for the sweet child who is so blessed to have you in her life, protecting her interests and being her legal voice.
I hope this helps in some small way.
Hugs
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
Ann, thanks so much for your insights into how things look from an "inside view". It's so heartening to hear that the staff DO know how to spot B.S. and that they aren't easily fooled. My sister, bless her, is such a talented liar that half the time I catch myself believing her. She often tells me that various staff members have said things that alarm me (like that they'd attest to her ability to be a parent after a month of the program) ... and then when I read things like this, your post, it is of great comfort to hear that the staff aren't so easily tricked.
*
Amy, thanks for your ongoing support and thoughts about BPD... and for sharing the laugh with me.
Sometimes it's important to hoot a little so we don't go cuckoo, right?
*
Amy, thanks for your ongoing support and thoughts about BPD... and for sharing the laugh with me.
Sometimes it's important to hoot a little so we don't go cuckoo, right?
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
I finally got ahold of the director at the centre where my sister is saying. Despite all my sister has said to the contrary, the director says that my sister is NOT ready to be a parent and won't be unless she completes a proper detox followed by a six month rehab program. At present, my sister is continuing to take her OxyContin while staying in the centre and I'm not sure how she ever got away with that in the first place.... twelve steps to being exactly the way you already are?? She also said my sister is not bothering to avail herself of any of the programs the centre offers (psychological assessments, parenting classes, work skills...) in spite of recommendations of her counsellors.
Anyway, the director said she would like to have a meeting tomorrow with me, my husband, and my sister to talk about what needs to be done before my sister will be ready to have her daughter back. I suspect this isn't going to go well and that my sister will panic. She has already told me repeatedly that she won't do a detox. She says her pain is too severe to come off this drug.
The director says if her pain is really bad enough to require this much of the drug, she isn't ready to parent anyway. (She doesn't believe the pain is severe enough to warrant use of this drug at all.) And that if it's not that bad then she's taking it for no good reason. In either scenario, the director's belief is that my sister can't parent at this point.
It's a mixed feeling I get from that news. Relief that other people, experts, see the same thing I do and have the same concerns. And also sadness. Because I really don't think my sister WANTS to get off the drugs. She just wants to find a way to do them in a way that will get us all off her back.
I need to focus on remaining calm and steady in this meeting. I am going to let the director state what she wants to see happen and then fully support her, whatever she says. If my sister freaks out, we'll have to deal with that as it comes. I'm going to be taking some deep breaths! (The wind blows through me like a hollow reed...) If I faint, please put a paper bag over my face.
Anyway, the director said she would like to have a meeting tomorrow with me, my husband, and my sister to talk about what needs to be done before my sister will be ready to have her daughter back. I suspect this isn't going to go well and that my sister will panic. She has already told me repeatedly that she won't do a detox. She says her pain is too severe to come off this drug.
The director says if her pain is really bad enough to require this much of the drug, she isn't ready to parent anyway. (She doesn't believe the pain is severe enough to warrant use of this drug at all.) And that if it's not that bad then she's taking it for no good reason. In either scenario, the director's belief is that my sister can't parent at this point.
It's a mixed feeling I get from that news. Relief that other people, experts, see the same thing I do and have the same concerns. And also sadness. Because I really don't think my sister WANTS to get off the drugs. She just wants to find a way to do them in a way that will get us all off her back.
I need to focus on remaining calm and steady in this meeting. I am going to let the director state what she wants to see happen and then fully support her, whatever she says. If my sister freaks out, we'll have to deal with that as it comes. I'm going to be taking some deep breaths! (The wind blows through me like a hollow reed...) If I faint, please put a paper bag over my face.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
(((Amy))), thanks so much. My sis called while we were out at niece's swimming lesson and left a phone message saying the director of the centre told her she couldn't make the meeting because she wasn't feeling well and wanted to reschedule it. Of course I tried to call the director myself to check on this and just got an answering machine. Curiouser and curiouser....
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
sounds kind of strange to me, but I guess it could be true. I would call the counselor on Monday and find out. Normally, I'd say don't worry about it, but this concerns your niece, so I would follow-up on it.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
Originally Posted by Impurrfect 
Normally, I'd say don't worry about it, but this concerns your niece, so I would follow-up on it.
Amy
Amy
Yeah, it is strange. I can't imagine the director of the centre asking my sister to cancel the meeting rather than calling us directly herself. It makes no sense.
I've told my sis that we're not bringing her daughter until we speak to a member of the staff to know that that visit is going to be supervised. Now she's freaking out .... and I'm breathing deeply.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
Wow Sis Helper,
You are doing a great job, staying focused, in control, checking out things for yourself, keep up the good work. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you, but am very impressed with the great job you are doing.
May the force (and your HP) continue to be with you every step of the way!
JMF
You are doing a great job, staying focused, in control, checking out things for yourself, keep up the good work. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you, but am very impressed with the great job you are doing.
May the force (and your HP) continue to be with you every step of the way!
JMF
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
JMF -- thanks for your encouragement... truly! It's so exhausting sometimes to have to check everything out, but I'm learning that it's necessary. I'm not sure if I'm really in control here, but I'm doing like my dance teacher used to say, "fake it 'til you make it". Pretending to be calm makes me feel more calm. I am hugely grateful for the support and encouragement I'm receiving here which adds to my reserve of strength to draw on when I need it. (And speaking of addiction... I think I'm becoming a SR forum addict!)
I am hugely grateful for the support and encouragement I'm receiving here which adds to my reserve of strength to draw on when I need it. (And speaking of addiction... I think I'm becoming a SR forum addict!)
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Posts: 561
Wow, today was wacky. We finally met with the director of the centre and her husband (who is the director of the men's centre on another campus). The director said that she doesn't really believe my sister's pain is as bad as she says it is and that she isn't showing any real interest in coming off the narcotics. We had this conversation with my sister in the room.
The director also said she wanted my sister to give permission for her to talk directly to her doctor to get more information about this alleged pain/ back problem. My sister says she will do this, but I have grave doubts that she will follow through on that.
My sister made a big issue out of how she plans to fight the custody order now, and I've basically told her to go ahead and do whatever she feels she needs to do because I can't convince her of anything.
I've also told her that I'm getting my information only through the director of the centre and no one else. She wants me to talk to a whole host of people who will argue her case and I've told her I can listen to them all but the only person whose opinion has any real weight is that of the director.
So... it wasn't a very happy meeting. And I don't know what's going to happen next. I'm scared that my sister is going to get her daughter back in spite of the drugs if the law is on her side... but I just don't know what to expect. It's scary.
I'll tell ya one thing. When I'm Queen of the Universe things aren't going to work like this. Kids will be better protected from crap like this.
The director also said she wanted my sister to give permission for her to talk directly to her doctor to get more information about this alleged pain/ back problem. My sister says she will do this, but I have grave doubts that she will follow through on that.
My sister made a big issue out of how she plans to fight the custody order now, and I've basically told her to go ahead and do whatever she feels she needs to do because I can't convince her of anything.
I've also told her that I'm getting my information only through the director of the centre and no one else. She wants me to talk to a whole host of people who will argue her case and I've told her I can listen to them all but the only person whose opinion has any real weight is that of the director.
So... it wasn't a very happy meeting. And I don't know what's going to happen next. I'm scared that my sister is going to get her daughter back in spite of the drugs if the law is on her side... but I just don't know what to expect. It's scary.
I'll tell ya one thing. When I'm Queen of the Universe things aren't going to work like this. Kids will be better protected from crap like this.
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Posts: 561
I'm going to say something ugly because I need to get it out because it's hurting me. I'm sorry sorry sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings because it's not meant to. It's something that's been bothering me and I hate it about myself. So I want to say it and get it away from me. So I can look back at it and work on it.
Most of my life I've assumed I'm not a snob. I'm interested in people who are different from me and I've enjoyed learning about all kinds of different people. But now I think I'm a snob.
When I go to my sister's recovery centre I feel out of place and uncomfortable. The woman who was assigned to supervise my off-site visitation was a woman on methadone who struggled not to slur and who chain-smoked and kept nodding off the entire time she was with us. Just how, I couldn't help asking myself, was this woman supposed to be supervising my behaviour? She could barely keep her head up.
When I was introduced to the "House Mother" who was supposed to ensure my niece's well-being during the visit, making sure nothing bad could happen to her, this woman slumped over to us wordlessly, scowled with multiple missing teeth and made a comment so unintelligible that it sounded like a grunt. Again, I couldn't help but feel uneasy that I was being expected to place my trust in this person, trust with the life of an eleven year old little girl, a woman who couldn't stop to tell us her name, or offer any sort of welcome.
Even the sweet little blonde ghost who greets me in her wispy voice as a brand new person each and every time I meet her, telling me, "We work so hard to keep the house clean. We really care about keeping it nice," ... as much as my heart aches for her and the suffering that is so clearly written all over her haunted face, I don't trust her. I don't want her in charge of anything that affects my life.
I'm a snob.
And I can't help it.
Most of my life I've assumed I'm not a snob. I'm interested in people who are different from me and I've enjoyed learning about all kinds of different people. But now I think I'm a snob.
When I go to my sister's recovery centre I feel out of place and uncomfortable. The woman who was assigned to supervise my off-site visitation was a woman on methadone who struggled not to slur and who chain-smoked and kept nodding off the entire time she was with us. Just how, I couldn't help asking myself, was this woman supposed to be supervising my behaviour? She could barely keep her head up.
When I was introduced to the "House Mother" who was supposed to ensure my niece's well-being during the visit, making sure nothing bad could happen to her, this woman slumped over to us wordlessly, scowled with multiple missing teeth and made a comment so unintelligible that it sounded like a grunt. Again, I couldn't help but feel uneasy that I was being expected to place my trust in this person, trust with the life of an eleven year old little girl, a woman who couldn't stop to tell us her name, or offer any sort of welcome.
Even the sweet little blonde ghost who greets me in her wispy voice as a brand new person each and every time I meet her, telling me, "We work so hard to keep the house clean. We really care about keeping it nice," ... as much as my heart aches for her and the suffering that is so clearly written all over her haunted face, I don't trust her. I don't want her in charge of anything that affects my life.
I'm a snob.
And I can't help it.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
awww, sweetie, I think a lot of it is just being uncomfortable. It's pretty hard to be comfortable around some people who have a lifestyle that is totally foreign to you. It also hits very close to home for you, since your sister is there.
Trust me...if you had seen ME when I was active, you wouldn't have wanted to stick around.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Trust me...if you had seen ME when I was active, you wouldn't have wanted to stick around.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Just plainly tired
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: crossroads
Posts: 2,834
You know what I dont believe it has anything to do with you being a snob it has to do with that they are not having the right people there to monitor the visit. A person on methadone should not be nodding out, if they are that only means that the methodone is a real high dosage for them and needs to be lowered. If I was you I would contact the director and say something about what you witness and your fears.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Trust your instincts, they will rarely fail you. It's not snobbish to protect a child from being in the care of someone incapable of caring for them....isn't that what this whole thing is all about?
Addicts are sick people trying to get well, but they don't get well all at once. Some only get partly well because of the severe damage addiction has done.
The best advice I could give you (even though you didn't ask for any, lol) is to get a good lawyer and trust your instinct on the rest.
In this entire drama (and I use that term respectfully) the only innocent, the only person who cannot speak for themselves is the child. That is who must be protected at all costs.
Again, I admire all you are doing, just wanted to add more support.
Hugs
Addicts are sick people trying to get well, but they don't get well all at once. Some only get partly well because of the severe damage addiction has done.
The best advice I could give you (even though you didn't ask for any, lol) is to get a good lawyer and trust your instinct on the rest.
In this entire drama (and I use that term respectfully) the only innocent, the only person who cannot speak for themselves is the child. That is who must be protected at all costs.
Again, I admire all you are doing, just wanted to add more support.
Hugs
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 561
Thanks guys, I felt like a turd for posting that but it's been bothering me and I wanted to get it off my chest. You're right too... it's not really that I'm a snob, at least not in the narrow-minded don't-want-to-mingle-with-people-who-aren't-just-like-me kind of way. I'm just nervous about trusting people who my instincts tell me not to. And sadly, that includes my sister. It bothers me that I feel uncomfortable around these people like I can't wait to get away from them... because I usually really enjoy meeting new people. Anyway, thanks for not making me feel bad for saying what I said and for understanding what I meant.
I guess the thing that bothers me most is that I feel like some of these people, as sick or as damaged as they seem, still seem better off than my sister does. That's hard to admit.
I guess the thing that bothers me most is that I feel like some of these people, as sick or as damaged as they seem, still seem better off than my sister does. That's hard to admit.
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