laurie6781

Amy maybe it's time for Brit to go to the Y or YWCA for 'babysitting classes" become certified and start doing some babysitting or dog walking, etc to 'earn' money for some of those things she 'wants.' She is old enough to start understanding that nothing is 'free' in this life and we work for what we want and need.

Sister, I agree with Amy, maybe it is time to look for a different, more reasonable, supervisor and set boundaries with this one. Have them sign a contract of sorts as to what is and is not allowed and any even minute question, supervisor is to call for permission.

Yep, sounds like your sister is getting herself 'hyped' up for another round of BS.

Know that prayers go out daily for all of you, especially that her HP help her find recovery.

Love and hugs,

winnie12

She thinks you betrayed her?????? what about the betrayal of a mother to her child - that's well beyond any bond of sisters.

sorry but if I acted like that with my sister i think she'd beat the crap outta me for that kind of nonsense and i wouldnt have the nerve to ever tell a soul cause i'd know i deserved it. okay she wouldnt really beat the crap outta me but it sure would feel like it by the time she was done. my sister is one of the few people in the world that I always listen to because she tells it like it is - she was more of a mom to me than a sister growing up. if i'm right - she will defend me to the end but if i'm in the wrong she will be the first one to tell me. she has a beautiful way of mixing the two - always done with love - never anger and always with my kids and my best interest at heart. she wants me and my children to be happy so she's willing to be tough with me. I Love her for it with all my heart.

I wouldnt take phone calls from her or at a minimum i would make it clear that the conversation will be ended the moment she begins to step over the line. if anything, set up a regular weekly meeting where you can discuss schedules and let her know what's going on with your niece - i would talk about anything else but that and I would keep it very business like - make your list of what your going to discuss and dont let her go anywhere else. if you are supervising phone conversations and it gets out of control then i think if its hurting your neice then step in - I wouldnt stop your neice from saying what she wants but if her mom is upsetting her too much just suggest that the conversation end for now and they can pick it back up once they have had time to think about it. I also think that letters are a great way of expressing ourselves when we speak to someone that never listens. i'm not saying they listen anymore in a letter but at least that way we get out what we want to say without having to hear the barrage of lies and excuses. Right now its about your niece and she needs to be able to speak her mind. If she doesnt then she may end up a doormat when she gets older.

I have had to help my daughter through this - she's always afraid of saying anything that upsets anyone and i fear she is a prime candidate to be a huge codie one day. I've let her know that even though she should treat adults with respect that she has the right to tell us if she truly feels she's being treated badly. The first time she stepped up with me and said "you are hurting my feelings and making me angry" I really took a step back. understand this is a child that never stands up for herself so when she did - i really respected what she said.

SistersHelp

Ironic, isn't it, that my sister feels I am the one who has committed an act of betrayal? She says this while my niece is coming forward with all kinds of horrible stories of psychological abuse she suffered with her mother. It all drives home the irrefutable fact that my sister is just dealing with an addiction; she is also very severely mentally ill, and it's getting worse not better. She rapidly changes her opinion (sometimes even in the course of the same twenty minute conversation) about major issues and does not seem capable of thinking more than a day ahead in terms of consequences for her actions.

I am definitely starting to think it might be time to reconsider this supervisor... in spite of the fact my niece really likes her. Suddenly I'm starting to notice how many things are slowly crossing the line into being non-neutral.

winnie, I really like the idea of encouraging my niece to write her mother a letter. As you say, it won't make my sister listen but it'll help her get some things off her chest. Even if she never even sends it.

Thanks everyone... (((hugs)))

Impurrfect

I like Winnie's idea about the letter, too. In fact, you may want to get her a journal, and encourage her to write out her feelings in that. It can be "for her eyes only" or maybe it would be something she wants to share with you, but that can be her choice.

Laurie - I agree with you about Brit. Unfortunately, I have no say-so about what Brit does (other than how she acts towards me). She's the only child I've ever known who has NO responsibilities, no chores, etc. At least she's been recently doing some cleaning around the house, and I've been commenting, positively, about it. As soon as she turns 16 (next July) she wants to get a job...THAT should be interesting.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

NeedingHelp7

Sounds familiar. All you can do is keep conversation short, if she starts blaming you cut the conversation immediately, as if you didn't hear a word she said. You don't need to be abused. It's the emotional manipulation cassandra2 was talking about. Many boundaries with her kind is the only way.

Saying and doing are 2 different things. If she does you will know it, until then it's all quaking. She will have proof on paper when and if she ever gets sober and well enough to take care of her daughter. Don't let yourself be bothered by her.

Again, it seems you are giving her too much time talking to you. Keep it short, if at all. You need your strength for your neice. Try to keep all dramatized and blaming conversation out, or neice will pick it up as a habit. This will keep the peace. Showing your neice how you draw boundaries will teach her how to draw boundaries, and will protect her for a lifetime.
It's the supervisors job to handle any heated conversations on visits.

Opiates never help the mentally ill and addicted, they only make things worse.

But anyways.....
Thankfully the neice is realizing now how different her mothers ways of raising her were distorted and very hurtful. Thankfully she's talking about it, thankfully she's crying about it. You don't want her to dwell in the hurt. When the healing comes, let her live normally, and help her to move on through each healing step (and there may be many), but don't let her get stuck in the pain. Having friends doing fun things that girls her age do, go to the mall, the movies. She needs to live her life too. Find ways to have laughter all around her. A cheerful heart is a good medicine.

I'm also wondering, is there an Alateen in your area?

Blessings,
NH7

SistersHelp

Thanks Amy and Thanks NH7. You're so right about modelling the behaviour I want my niece to learn when dealing with her mother... keeping things calm, rational and non-dramatic.

We do have Alateen here and I asked my niece (couple of months ago now) if she'd be interested in going. At the time she was pretty disinterested. I insisted on the weekly counselling sessions but I didn't force her to do the Alateen too... because I didn't want her to feel she was being "punished" for her mother's issues. I think that it might be a good idea to readdress the suggestion at some point, though. She might be more interested in it as she gets older.



Meanwhile. THE. WORLD. HAS. GONE. CRAZY.

You know... sometimes I don't notice how seriously crazy things are until they've totally piled up and I'm looking at a giant mound of insanity. For some reason I don't put the pieces together along the way until they've made a Crazy Mountain.

I'm starting to realise our current supervision company is INSANE.

These are things that have finally added up to a big enough pile of crazy to make me take notice:

1. The owner of the company who was monitoring phone calls didn't want to make a written report stating that my sister was frequently slurring and once even completely incoherent on the phone.

2. At one visit my niece told me her mother kept "falling asleep". The supervisor reported that my sister "was tired".

3. The owner told me he'd encouraged my sister to seek legal representation and was meeting with her to discuss his concerns about her behaviour. (This was just before the JCC.)

4. The supervisor took my niece to see a PG13 movie without asking our permission, in spite of the fact the owner told us we would always be asked first.

5. The supervisor allowed my sister and niece to have a private conversation about a Christmas present they wanted to get her. (This was last Saturday.)

6. The supervisor invited my sister to call her at home for parenting advice and provided her home phone number.

7. A second time, the supervisor allowed my sister to be alone with my niece (sitting at the table at the coffee shop while she stood in line for her coffee). My niece said her mother started talking to her about "when you come home..." during this time, a topic which is strictly forbidden.

8. The supervisor and my sister had a conversation in front of my niece about how they disagreed with my choice to allow my niece to use the internet (although I supervise her closely). They also talked about a CD my husband gave my niece being inappropriate... all this right in front of her!



Okay... so apparently a big load of bricks has to fall on my head before I catch on but today's behaviours, (6-8), really woke me up. I was feeling kind of concerned before, but now I'm really annoyed. The fact that my niece really likes the supervisor a LOT has definitely kept me from seeing it sooner, but I'm starting to realise these people are not at all what they claim to be. Neutral third party my butt!

I went in to pick up my niece from the visit today thinking I'd like to talk about my first five problems... and the owner wasn't there. On the way home from the visit, niece told me about new problems, 6-8. So I just wrote him a big email with all my concerns outlined. I'm interested to see what he has to say. I like to keep an open mind but I can't imagine him having anything to say that would make me keep him as a supervisor.


(I used to ask my mother why it was that crazy people always sit next to me on the bus. Why crazy people always corner me at parties and tell me crazy things.... why why why. And my mother dryly said, "Crazy seeks crazy." Hee hee! Is that really what's going on here?)


_

Impurrfect

nah, you're not crazy You ARE, however, in new territory and you don't know what to look for until it happens. Now that you DO know what to look for, you are acting appropriately.

So, don't be hard on yourself for not seeing all of this sooner. If you're like me, you generally trust people until they give you a reason NOT to trust them...unless, of course, you know they're an addict! You've been going along with the "system", doing what you're supposed to, and following the advice of someone you THOUGHT was on the same page you were.

Now, it should be easier to make the decision to find another person to supervise. Your niece may not like it, at first, but she will adjust....kids are remarkably resilient and can adjust way better than we adults.

The only personal recommendation I have, is that I might not tell my niece all the details of why you want to change supervisors. If she thinks it's because of something she told you, she may not want to open up to you any more (especially if she's not happy with your decision). I would probably just say "We have some concerns and they aren't doing their job right". I work pretty hard at keeping the lines of communication open with MY niece, and sometimes it takes some creative conversation

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

SistersHelp

Thanks Amy... very good point.

Toomutch

Sister - I wanted to say that I admire you for what you are doing to insure that your niece has protection, guidence and mostly love.

SistersHelp

Thank you so much for saying that... With my sister convinced that we've basically kidnapped her child for no good reason, it's been really hard some days to keep that in perspective. It really does help to hear it.

*

I was watching Dr. Phil today... a show I almost never see because he's on when I'm at work, but being a teacher I have FABULOUS holidays and so today I watched him with my niece. He was doing a show about a mom with a serious addiction to pills.

I think it was a really good thing for my niece because she was drawing parallels between this woman and her mother... ("oh yeah, my mom had a stash like that too in the closet...", "my mom used to fall asleep like that too and I couldn't even wake her up...", etcetera). I think it helped her to see how seriously other people were taking the situation.

The sad part was that the woman seemed way better off than my sister does, and my niece noticed it. She noticed that unlike the woman on the tv, her mother doesn't get dressed or brush her hair or teeth... her mother isn't able to sit in a chair for an hour and make sense... her mother doesn't even think there's anything wrong with her.

Depressing. But a little reality check for both of us.

Impurrfect

(((Lisa)))

My niece has the same reality check....she sees me, in recovery, compared to her dad, who has NEVER tried recovery and is in jail for the umpteenth time, and has been there most of her life.

As long as our girls have love and stability, they'll be okay. We've had our rough patches with Brit, but she is one of my greatest blessings.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

SistersHelp

Okay... picture this:

I buy my sister a ticket, a one-way ticket to Timbuktu.

I tell her it's going to take her to a world class spa where she will be living in the lap of luxury for the weekend. I tell her someone will pick her up and drop her back off when it's time to come home.

An all expenses paid vacation from me to you. Just because I love you!




Problem? Solved.

Buh-bye!

SistersHelp

Hmm. I never bought my sister the ticket to Timbuktu but it was a fun fantasy while it lasted.

Tonight, for the second night in a row, my niece asked me to make an excuse for her so she wouldn't have to talk to her mother on the phone when she called to say goodnight. Last night I did it. Tonight I told her it was okay if she didn't want to talk but that I thought it was better to tell her mother the truth, that she wasn't feeling like talking. The reason she hasn't wanted to talk to her mom is that she always talks about the house they're going to have together in the future. This makes my niece feel stressed out because she doesn't want to live with her mother and it makes her scared to think about them living together again in the future.

So anyway, I told my niece that it was better to be honest with her mother and she agreed. Because I wanted to demonstrate to her that honesty was better, I let her sit in the room with me while I told her mother that she wasn't in the mood to talk. My sister, of course, argued about that and told me that it was all my fault because I've obviously poisoned her daughter against her. While we were talking (me, staying as calm as possible while wanting to leap through the phone and strangle her), my niece tapped me on the shoulder and said she wanted to talk to her mother herself after all.

She came on the phone and told her mom that the reason she didn't want to talk was that it bothered her to hear about their future home because she doesn't really want to live with her again. My sister totally dismissed that and said she had to get off the phone.

After that conversation, my niece and I had a little talk. I told her that I wanted to make sure her opinions about her future with her mother were based on her own experiences and not on anything I had said or done. Basically, I've been a little concerned that she might want to stay with us because we buy her nice clothes or because she's been influenced by our opinions.

But she said it wasn't that. She said it was because of bad things that had happened when she lived with her mom. Suddenly she told me this crazy story about how her mother had instructed her to invent a "Sims" characters on her computer representing various ghosts and spirits she believed in. (My sister is a HUGE believer in paranormal, witchcraft, ESP, etcetera...) And then after she did that, my sister did some sort of seance ritual in which she asked the spirits she'd summoned to kill our parents, and then had my niece type the descriptions of these murders into her "biography" section of her "Sims" characters in order to make it come true.

This kind of stuff just sickens me. Sometimes my sister is so convincing when she tries to come across as sane and reasonable and under control. And the truth is that she's completely out of her mind cuckoo.

laurie6781

These types of things I hope you are DOCUMENTING. Keep that log with a copy to your attorney.

I truly believe this will help in keeping that beautiful child from being returned to her obviously very ill mother.

What you are doing is a truly WONDERFUL thing!!!!!

Love and hugs,

Impurrfect

First of all, I agree with the trip to Timbuktu!

I also agree with Laurie...make sure all this is documented. Every time your niece tells you more info about what life was like with her mom, write it down.

I just love (being VERY sarcastic) how your sister can just dismiss anyone, including her daughter, when a conversation is not going her way. I am in total awe at well you are handling all of this, because I would probably be in jail, for going over there and wringing her neck and snatching out her vocal cords, and I'm really not a violent person.

I'm so glad your niece is opening up to you, more and more. You are doing a wonderful job with her, and it shows.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

SistersHelp

Thanks Laurie and Amy, I appreciate the support! I am documenting everything my niece tells me and we actually HAVE my sister's computer out in our garage right now (we were storing her things for her with the initial idea being that she would go through recovery, get her stuff and her child back, set up a house, and begin a life!). I'm wondering if we can fire that baby up and have a look at this thing my niece told us about and also see what else is on there.

However, with what we've heard so far there's a huge part of me that does not want to know what else is on that computer. Ugh.

Seren

SistersHelp...

I've been following this thread, and I really admire your strength...wish my BF and I had a bit of it down here. Reading your story has been very inspirational to me. Best of luck to you all.

HG

SistersHelp

Awww thanks HG, I've been following your story too! And I don't think we (I) have any particular strength going on. Most of what I'm doing is simply out of necessity. (It's amazing what you can do when you have no other option...!) I think you and your BF have been doing the right thing with his son, by the way, and whatever strength and direction we can borrow from each other's Tales of Madness is a bonus.

NeedingHelp7

I bet things will take a turn now. I'm glad your neice had the courage to tell her how she felt.


And we know the madness has to end somehow, and someway.
Sister, May God make things happen His way for you and neice. No more nonsense and drama from her mother. It's really gotta end.

NH7

laurie6781

Naaa, don't fire it up. However, talk with the attorney about it, after telling her this latest tale, and she may want you to get a 'puter geek' to pull all that stuff off the puter to be able to 'present to the court' if needed. Doesn't hurt to ask. It also would be 'back up' for your nieces rememberances.

So, my suggestion, don't you or your hubby do it, let a professional do it if it becomes necessary.

In the meantime, know that prayers continue to flow from NM to you and your family.

Love and hugs,