Lies have already begun......

Old 07-09-2008, 05:24 AM
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(((abundance)))

Sorry I'm late on this, but sounds like you got lots of good ES&H above. So, how are things now?

As far as lying, although most addicts DO lie, there are people who aren't addicts who do it, too. It is a HUGE thing to me...to be lied to, especially when I was the codie queen and would take you back no matter what you did! I told my XABF that if he was breathing, he was lying...even about stupid stuff.

Recovery isn't a straight road. Yes, I've stayed clean since I chose recovery, but it took a while longer for me to get past being irresponsible and comfortable with myself. I never did the lying bit, probably because I'm such a bad liar and can't keep up with what I told who. I'm sure if I had kept using, I would have developed the skill.

No matter what he does, keep focusing on you and the boys. Stick to your boundaries, even if it feels uncomfortable. I know, for me, taking care of myself was extremely uncomfortable for a while....it gets easier.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:42 AM
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Okay, I have a question in all of this. What is this doing to your children? You are worried about them becoming more attached to him. Maybe take the focus off from him, put it back where it belongs, on your children and their mommy because you can't be an effective parent if you are all stressed out over him. I hope you get your focus back. And maybe it is time that he makes other living arrangements. My daughter is in a halfway house where other addicts can call her on her sh*t. Sending hugs and prayers, Marle
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:33 AM
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Abs - I'm sorry. I'm not of much use right now - but you're getting some great advice here. Keep your boundaries up and I think the rules should be layed down early on. Addicts do lie and it has been part of "him" for a while now depending on how long he's been addicted. I too don't trust my AH farther than I can throw him. I think the best thing that you can do is reiterate your boundary with lying. Don't let the lie bring you to weakness, use your strength and be firm with what you will tolerate. Don't let it send you in a tail spin. I agree with Anvilhead and her firmness. You're in new territory right now. You're both trying to find a new way, but old habits are hard to break. It would be very easy to fall into the same roles of the codie/addict - even without the drugs involved. You're learning a new dance right now when you've done the same one over and over for a long time. Change is hard on BOTH parts.

Of course we don't want to be lied to at all on any level - but our reality has been lies and they probably won't stop cold turkey. But reinforcing your boundaries and being firm in your stance will show him what you will and won't tolerate. If this lie sends you in a tailspin, you're giving HIM control. Take it BACK and put the ownership of the lie back to him. It's HIS problem if he chooses to lie, NOT yours. Make him aware (I'm sure he is) that he's walking a thin line right now. Hugs to you - BTDT - you think after rehab the slate is washed clean - but signs of that old "dance" can send you in a frenzy. It did me I know. I see now that rehab was the war, but their are many battles after the fact.
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Abundance View Post
So ... I make us all lunch and he is smiling at me across the table and

What do I do??????? (
I don't know how old your son is. I am going to assume he is not a pre-schooler. So maybe one of the things you might consider doing is stop making him lunch, figuratively and literally.

If he is going to relapse, he is going to relapse no matter what you do or not.
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:03 AM
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First off.... thank you so much!!! I am subscribing to this thread.... as there is SO much good information here.... and so many tools to add to my tool box because this is going to happen I'm sure again..... and again.......and again.... but it's been a couple hours into today...... and it's been quite good! Put focus on me and the boys! (I'm taking my oldest for his Sylvan results and then we are going to see WALLIE!!!!!!!!)

Well.... last night after he left IOP he sent a text saying he was leaving and that we needed to talk and that he was sorry. When he got home there was dinner on the table for him and I was having cuddle time with the boys... he ate and went straight upstairs, meanwhile I just hung out with the boys and then about a half hour after getting them settled to sleep.... he approached me asking if we could talk. The fact that I waited for him to approach me was actually new.... because well ... normally I would have just approached him. He said that he spoke a lot about it in group and got some ESH from everyone there. Some of the folks know me there and told him that I was beneficial to his recovery.... not his enemy and to basically KNOCK IT OFF. He explained that it's been 8 days since getting out of rehab and that he is still in his addict ways... and that it was a reaction to his normal behavior to lie about that particular friend calling, because that is what he has done in the past.... and that he is obviously in relapse mode. He did end up going to a bar just before the meeting, but then after a few minutes of sitting there... he got up and went to the IOP. He told that story too... so he is totally battling something so huge right now and will continue to be. We talked for about an hour and he understands that lying is totally not acceptable. One thing that irritated me was this 18 year old nanny told him that kids are pretty resiliant and if he did not have a home to come back to that the boys would be upset for a few days maybe a week..... but they would get over it. He actually took that advice as golden...... and I was like..... you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!! Nanny and father figure are totally two opposite extremes! Geeeeeezus! So... I'm glad he mentioned that to me because I set that one straight right away!!!

I'm going to an al-anon meeting tonight....... I am reading those MB books and thinking of getting the book that LS recommended... Women, Love, Addiction.... (I think is the name). My goal is to focus more on my recovery and less on his! It's time now I back off..... "hands off the addict"...... and change my focus back to where it belongs! While in the throws of all of it.... that is so much easier said than done..... but when in the throws of just staying present within myself and the boys....... I think....... why haven't I been doing this all along?! So..... I too had a slip!!!! There are going to be times that we won't be in sync in our recoveries and yesterday we clearly were not! As long as I keep my side of the street clean so to speak..... I will be less wrapped up in what he is doing or not doing.


You ALL help me SO much!!! Help getting me in the right head space and I am so grateful to you! I wish that I could give you all a Great BIG hug!!!!! :ghug <-------- do you feel it?????? <smile>
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by outtolunch View Post
I don't know how old your son is. I am going to assume he is not a pre-schooler. So maybe one of the things you might consider doing is stop making him lunch, figuratively and literally.

If he is going to relapse, he is going to relapse no matter what you do or not.
My boys are 8 and 9 (turning 10 in 10 days!)
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:50 AM
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Abundance -

so glad for the update and it sounds like you handled everything really well. Early recovery brings with it a lot of false starts and ups and downs - yours and his. You are so right on focusing on your own recovery. It really helped me to make a promise to myself that I couldn't say anything to him about recovery unless I held myself to the exact standards that I wished for him. So far, I've not been able to say very much because I'm pretty busy on me. RAH has NEVER even come close to what I would have wished but for the most part I've been able to stand by my decision not to say anything to him.

My boys were the same ages as yours when RAH enterred my life and got sober. I pretended to myself that they were not impacted but they have been, in major ways. Primarily, I haven't been the mother tht they deserved because I was either wrapped up in supporting him or emotionally unavailbe due to issues with him.. They are used to my tears and unhappiness - that is what they have adjusted to. You can't fool kids with putting on the happy face. They know deep down what is going on. I so wish that I had been able to make better choices but I honestly did the best that I could do at the time. Please don't think that I am here trying to say to make choices any way or another. All I'm saying is that even if I had chosen exactly the same path with my husband I do wish that I had 100% put the boys' needs ahead of what I wanted. That might have led me to taking better care of myself sooner than I did.

It is definitely do-able but it really does take an extremely strong commitment to yourself. Although it's not awesome that your SO went to a bar it is awesome that he left and went to his meeting and shared. The ESH that he got was right on target. My husband's relapse counselor said that those with family support do have a better shot at recovery. But that the support that they received is earned by doing the next right thing. I can't say that any lies are ok with me - they aren't. But I also understand that my husband has a long long history of manipulating the truth and baiting people. These are old behaviors that don't stop just because he has stopped the drugs. I know that lying makes me livid so I am slowly learning to detach until I am calm enough to deal with it. BTW - I still am hurt and angry from the lie last night (even though he did apologize). Still taking care of me and doing what I need to do to feel better. His sleeping in and running out of time to go and get my ice and pain meds this morning before he left the house isn't helping though.

In a way this was a good experience for you to go through because it has redirected you back to your own program. It's funny how all these bad things end up being a good thing. He has some new tools and he knows that he can go into a bar (bad decision) and leave (good decision). It's all a learning experience.

Wheeew - you went through a whole lot in the last 24 hours. Take good care of yourself and those boys. The rest will fall into place. I completely believe that. I hear a wonderful, kind, loving, strong spirit in your posts.
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by outtolunch View Post
I don't know how old your son is. I am going to assume he is not a pre-schooler. So maybe one of the things you might consider doing is stop making him lunch, figuratively and literally.

If he is going to relapse, he is going to relapse no matter what you do or not.
I am so sorry. I thought the addict in your life was your adult son. I missed the boat.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by outtolunch View Post
I am so sorry. I thought the addict in your life was your adult son. I missed the boat.
Geeze - isn't that the reality?? Isn't that what they've really become?? I hate being codependant. Where did I sign up to NOT be taken care of and put myself in last place?? Sorry, not funny, but that statement is the TRUTH! I'm in a bad place right now and feeling that. --the parent child aspect of all of this.
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by lightseeker View Post
Abundance -

so glad for the update and it sounds like you handled everything really well. Early recovery brings with it a lot of false starts and ups and downs - yours and his. You are so right on focusing on your own recovery. It really helped me to make a promise to myself that I couldn't say anything to him about recovery unless I held myself to the exact standards that I wished for him. So far, I've not been able to say very much because I'm pretty busy on me. RAH has NEVER even come close to what I would have wished but for the most part I've been able to stand by my decision not to say anything to him.

My boys were the same ages as yours when RAH enterred my life and got sober. I pretended to myself that they were not impacted but they have been, in major ways. Primarily, I haven't been the mother tht they deserved because I was either wrapped up in supporting him or emotionally unavailbe due to issues with him.. They are used to my tears and unhappiness - that is what they have adjusted to. You can't fool kids with putting on the happy face. They know deep down what is going on. I so wish that I had been able to make better choices but I honestly did the best that I could do at the time. Please don't think that I am here trying to say to make choices any way or another. All I'm saying is that even if I had chosen exactly the same path with my husband I do wish that I had 100% put the boys' needs ahead of what I wanted. That might have led me to taking better care of myself sooner than I did.

It is definitely do-able but it really does take an extremely strong commitment to yourself. Although it's not awesome that your SO went to a bar it is awesome that he left and went to his meeting and shared. The ESH that he got was right on target. My husband's relapse counselor said that those with family support do have a better shot at recovery. But that the support that they received is earned by doing the next right thing. I can't say that any lies are ok with me - they aren't. But I also understand that my husband has a long long history of manipulating the truth and baiting people. These are old behaviors that don't stop just because he has stopped the drugs. I know that lying makes me livid so I am slowly learning to detach until I am calm enough to deal with it. BTW - I still am hurt and angry from the lie last night (even though he did apologize). Still taking care of me and doing what I need to do to feel better. His sleeping in and running out of time to go and get my ice and pain meds this morning before he left the house isn't helping though.

In a way this was a good experience for you to go through because it has redirected you back to your own program. It's funny how all these bad things end up being a good thing. He has some new tools and he knows that he can go into a bar (bad decision) and leave (good decision). It's all a learning experience.

Wheeew - you went through a whole lot in the last 24 hours. Take good care of yourself and those boys. The rest will fall into place. I completely believe that. I hear a wonderful, kind, loving, strong spirit in your posts.
(((((HUGS)))) Thank you so much for writing all of that out! I can't tell you just how much of an inspiration you are to me! I have shared your wisdom and esh with folks at al-anon meetings.... so it's like you are with me

What I bolded are things that really hit home with me and I want you to know just how much I appreciate what you say!!!!

More than ANYTHING that I have ever wanted in life was to be a mother! Thirteen years ago I married a man who definitely WAS my child! He too was an opiate addict. It was then that I learned about my issue with co-dependence. I am definitely the "care taker" amongst the siblings of my family.... and the dynamics are very interesting (especially with my mom and I's relationship).... as I rekindle the codie recovery flame! When I met my guy... I was very careful about just what I was feeling and I was fearful that I was falling back into my codie ways with another closet drug user. He denied that he was one.... and I BELIEVED HIM! Grant it.... he was more recreational at that time and obviously in denial as well. The difference though is that he is taking this 100 times more serious than my exah..... and you know what? I am too! I've btdt... and I don't know if it's because I'm older.... (not 22)... or what? But this is serious and I want to do not just right by me, but right by my dear boys. They are the light of my life and every day I am grateful to have them! The three of us build our lives on the energy and closeness factor... and while they are young ... I do still have control in the sense that I can keep us connected. This weekend they are going on a meditation retreat via vipassana meditation... and as soon as they are teenagers and able to sit a 10 day noble silence course... I will sit beside them!

LS... not only do I feel that recovery is important to me and my relationship.... I feel that this also builds the foundation for me to cope with when my boys are older and they start down their own paths as adults.... at least that is something I tell myself! I don't think it can hurt things...... thats for sure!

I totally get about what you are saying in regards to commenting on your husband's recovery unless you are keeping to your recovery..... meanwhile while you are doing so..... you don't have to say anything to him anyway! That is exactly what I have learned via Vipassana... if we are happy within ourselves....... it does not matter what everyone else is doing! Too often when we find ourselves unhappy with another, it's because we are unhappy with ourselves! That is really so key!

Last night's episode definitely got me back more so into my recovery... and it IS all a learning experience! I spent today with one of my guy's gal pals from rehab...... I drove her out to her old residence to get some of her things... kind of like a chaperone.... and it was good conversation and great to get things out. Also, I did attend another al-anon meeting and got a sponsor to work the steps with!

Spoke to my guy tonight and he did a meeting today and went to IOP... he said that he is feeling a lot better and is relieved to know that it DOES pass.... and will come up again... but the great news... is that if you stay with the program....... you get through it!! Now THAT is golden!!!!

Oh.... also... what I learned at a family lecture.... was that the children DO internalize and know the difference.... but when externally we or I are telling them differently to what they are feeling.... it's when they get so confused and their worlds collide. I am conscious of that.... and will do everything in my power to not allow that to happen. It is a tremendous worry for me.

Thank you also for saying what you said at the end there..... that really meant a lot to me and I want to thank you..... it feels good to be told those things......

xoxoxo
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:29 AM
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Wow. Great thread.
Lots of helpful insight to think about.
Abundance, (((hugs to you))).

Funny thing about the Addict's lies....
My ABF lied/ lies/ will lie about EVERYTHING. Addiction related or not.
It's almost sociopathic where you pity them for having to lie about such menial, ridiculous stuff. Why I put up with this? I'm a Doormat. Codie. Masochist. Not sure. Give him a bizillion chances to undo all of the BS with one "sorry" but no. Didn't get that either.

He has photos of this dog on his desk, saying he had to go feed and walk the dog at lunch...but he never let me come over and see him....Then one week he said he sent the dog to live with his ex GF because he was working so much. Come to find out from his mom by accident...that he never had the dog...it was his ex girlfriend's in New York...where he moved from 2 years ago! (We are in southern California).

He lies about who called.
He lies about losing his ATM card, or his wallet (no, i don't lend money anymore)
He lies about coming into work early and/or working late (I and others at the office can prove otherwise).
He lies about places he's been or movies he's seen.
He ALWAYS says "I'll call you right back" and it will be days or never.
He only returned text messages when he needed something.
He lied about "never getting my message"
He lied about "remembering our plans".

What HASN'T he lied about.
Don't get me started on the "selfish" behavior either. I'll save that for another post!
(UGH!!!)

My confession...?
Snooping...yep... I did that too....but didn't classify it as Codie....
I'm BUSTED.

I rationalized it as "proving I wasn't just hallucinating...he DID lie to me about this and that...SEE? I'm NOT crazy"!!!

My Addict guy is in rehab now...2 weeks in..and doesn't want to talk to me, or see me, and I've heard he said some unkind things about me to a mutual friend who he asked to visit him...( I'm not supposed to know...which is another issue that causes me great angst and insomnia...hence why I'm posting at 1 am.....)

The day after his departure, I went thru his office after work, looking thru the trash, in his cabinets, reading note pads, even going so far as "evaluating" what was on his desk as a sign to see what he was last "doing or thinking about" before he left.
I even went thru his office mail. Nothin conclusive.
I checked which CD was in his player (not the one I gave him)
All under the guise of "wanting to be near him...I want to connect with him...."

Frankly, if I thought I could get away with it, I'd try to get into his email and voice mail and look for clues as to anything that might pertain to me or his situation, or who he was talking with....
If I had access to his cell phone (which he used to take even to the bathroom with him when he was at my house -cause he was afraid of snooping) you BET i'd check it!
See? I'm as bad as the ADDICT!

I don't know if all of this is to "make myself so angry" that I am "convinced" to walk away....but the more I try to hate him, the more I empathize that he's in his disease and it's "not really him talking"....(boy I feed myself a load of crap, don't I?).

I've got quite a lot of work to do to heal....
You're not alone, my dear.

Sharing the hugs...and the angst....

rivka
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:00 AM
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((((Rivka)))) ..... Nancy Drew or doing the FBI work is a biatch!!!!!! I feel that there is just as much sickness as being a codie as there is being an addict. Except...... we don't get high. It's like they become our fix.

When I was at my witts end with all of the lies... I found SR.... low and behold I could relate to all these stories on here... and didn't feel alone anymore.

Some thing that really hit home and not in a resentful or cruel way, but it really did make sense to me... and it is a known fact. How do you know when an addict is lying? Their lips are moving! How sad is that? How sad that the people we love and WANT to believe.. chances are.... they are not believable.... even when they say all these things with such conviction! No doubt, it's going to make us crazy! That is why detachment is SO important... to love from a distance.... separate ourselves from their reality. Our reality ... in truth.. is our safe place and is all we can nurture. We can't nurture an addict back to health or make them become honest... we can only protect ourselves by being honest with ourselves. It's so easy to lose ourselves into them. The thing is though.... is that when they are in the addict mindset..... for our sanity we have to have this go across our mental billboard: :codiepolice

I found that when I snooped ... I would feel so damn guilty about it... that I would not even know how to be that upset with him because my physical sensations were showing me how upset I was with myself. Not sure if that makes sense or not. Addiction IS a family disease. When we take the focus off of them and put it on us and recognize just what it is doing to us... that things truly do change. They change for everyone! There is this dance, but when we begin our own recovery.... it's as if the needle on the record does this scratch along the record..... and the addict especially... is not able to keep going. We have to hit our own bottom in order to start the process... or maybe even fake it til' we make it.

My bottom was the snooping... and the not trusting. Which is why last night was so hard for me because that bottom came all too quickly again for me!

I'm sorry... I'm probably all over the place... I drank way too much coffee too late in the evening... and I'm having trouble staying asleep..... don't even know if I really even have fallen asleep. <yawn> ... well that's a good sign! I am mentally much better tonight than I was last night. There was a really incredible woman that used to post here... I quote her in my signature.... and she used to acknowledge how long her internal battles lasted..... and I too started to do the same thing. I can't tell you how much it helped me! There are these little tricks we can play on ourselves *in a good way* to keep us inline and focused on our own recovery! It's brilliant!

Hope you hear from your abf and how he is doing, although, I hope that you more so are thinking of things that you can for YOU and how you can make your life for YOU.... sometimes it takes a day at a time and sometimes it's hour by hour or even minute by minute..... to get through it.... this too shall pass.

xoxo
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:53 AM
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(((Abundance)))

Good to hear you are both working on hard on your respective recoveries!!!

I was thinking about something about him lying...he probably doesn't realize he's even doing it. My dad can be very sarcastic and I HATE sarcasm. But I found out that I have apparently picked up his bad habit. It wasn't until someone pointed it out to me, though, that I was aware of it. I know ask people "PLEASE point it out when I'm being sarcastic" because I really don't like it.

Maybe just making him aware of it (not accusing, not angry, just saying "you lied and I don't like it") may help?

Good to hear things are moving along in a forward motion. Recovery, for both of you, is going to have a few steps off the path, where you slide back into old ways..lyinng for him, maybe, codie-slip for you, maybe...but when you're AWARE of it, it's a lot easier to get back on track.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:14 AM
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Amy!!!! Thank you

Absolutely.... you are so correct! Being AWARE helps so much with getting back on track.... and it helps to not take it personally.... the lying and so forth.... which is what I battle the most with. It is comforting to see that it does get better.... and how much power there is with this "one day at a time" business. When there are so many good days, it's all too easy to get the wind taken out of me when there is that bump in the road... whether it lasts a day or three! It's like there is no end in sight! And then I re-focus myself... and it happens! In an al-anon meeting I heard that when a door closes it just might mean another one or two or three are opening. There is so much truth to that.... just what I needed to hear, but didn't know why at the time!

This is GREAT advice......
Maybe just making him aware of it (not accusing, not angry, just saying "you lied and I don't like it") may help?
I'm telling ya all.... that when this happens again..... I'm coming to this thread...!!!!!

Okay.... I'm going to try and catch a couple hours of zzzzzzzzzzz's... and cuddle up with my guy! It's crazy hot here and a TON of fires! We saw Wallie today.... and the animation of the earth was literally what we experienced realistically when walking out of the theater... it was surreal... and pretty damn scary.

Hugs xoxoxo
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by lightseeker View Post
Abundance -

But that the support that they received is earned by doing the next right thing.
Abundance, I'm so glad you highlighted that and lightseeker, thank you for posting it! You both were the answer to a prayer I said just before opening this thread!

My RAD is contemplating doing something outside of the parameters established by her halfway house and it involves a lie. I told her on the phone a few minutes ago that all halfway houses have rules and they all expect their residents to follow them. I told her if she gets caught she will probably get kicked out and she said she'd think about it.

Then I prayed. I told God that I hoped I said the right thing to her and I know I can't give advice until she asks for it. I said I needed him to guide me if there was more I could say or do without interfering. Then I read your posts. This is the text message I sent just now:

Always remember you have support in your recovery, from us and the community, when you earn it by doing the next right thing. We love you!

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
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RIGHT ON Chino!!!!!! That is what this place is about!!!!! (amongst many other things!)

What a great text message to send your daughter!!!!!

Thank you for sharing!
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:14 PM
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Abundance - thank you so much for your kind words. It's difficult for me to think of inspiring anyone - but thank you just the same. Listen, I know that there is hope through this maze because I am sitting here with RAH in the same room. It is far from perfect but I don't know what marriage is.....You are on the right track and I know that you are going to be okay. We all are going to falter on this path at times but you just get back up and keep going. Always just doing the next right thing as best as you can.
It takes time but it's worth it. This is just a quick check in - have kids going and coming from camp but I did want to say thank you so much for your kind words.

Love and hugs!
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:29 PM
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Chino, I tell my daughter the same thing. We will support her as long as she does the next right thing. At first she didn't understand what I meant by that but she had an opportunity to use it yesterday at her halfway house and the light bulb went on and she had the aha moment. She chose to do the right thing and was proud of herself. Hugs, Marle
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