canard1

Thank you again for the great advice. What a wonderful group of giving people- I'm glad I found this site. My heart actually feels a little lighter today.

Now that I am going through everything of my husbands, I found one of his pipes in his briefcase he takes to work. Obviously, we are past recreational stage giving information provided if he's taking it with him to work.

Of course, if I point this out he will deny, deny, deny. He would have some excuse and again go back to why do I care if he is "doing what he should be doing". Never mind he had to quit a good job b/c they wanted to drug test him and there was no way he would pass. He was quite indignant over this- how could they invade his PRIVACY this way? Then he goes on about how does he know the needles are clean the test with to draw blood? It's quite ridiculous actually but there is no reasoning with him. He has an answer for everything.

Zombiewife, I admire your strength. I haven't always been such a doormat. I don't know what's happend to me- maybe he's just worn me down. His family has no idea- they would be shocked and he would never forgive me for telling them. And at the end of the day, he doesn't care what they or anyone thinks anyway. No one would suspect that he is a user like this- outside looking in you would never know. My friends would be surprised of what I've put up with thus far and my family what I continue to. My very immediate family is aware from what occurred over a year ago. Things then seemed to be okay (he wasn't using for awhile- or that I was aware of) and that is as far as my family knows now. I can't tell them it's started again and seems worse.

I've let his anger control me to the point that I'm intimidated by it and don't want to deal with him yelling at me and telling me how wrong I am. "Who am I to judge him?" And this must be a popular one:

How is what he doing different then someone who has a drink at night or a couple glasses of wine? That is one of his key arguments. His happens to be ILLEGAL but never mind that.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around how users operate. He is all happy now to be with me and the kids- wants us to get a sitter and go out for a show. I just don't get it. And it makes me so sad.

You are right about the money. I do have about 6 months of income he doesn't have access to so I think we are okay there. I monitor the accounts and there are a couple odd ones but not big cash out. What is concerning is he has a separate credit card he got when he was trying to start a business which I have never seen a statement from. He might be getting cash off this card and I don't know about it. But then the payment to card would have to come from somewhere. Heavy, heavy, sigh.

canard1

And these questions... is it common for a drug user to think he can monitor and stop his use if he deems it excessive? Is that possible? That they think they are out of the reach of addiction and can monitor/know when to stop if they need to? From previous feedback this seems highly unlikely.

I've been researching and am still trying to understand if my husband can be the drug using anomaly he thinks he is or is just kidding himself and me. Maybe I just don't want to see him as a drug user with a problem- I really wish this wasn't happening. Of course, this is again my fault b/c he's living where he doesn't want to live and to quote him in a fit of rage when I found his coke last year (it was in one of those little bottles): "This is NOT the life he wanted."

peaceteach

Canard,

At some point in all this insight and gathering of useful information, please read up on how YOU wind up getting affected with codependency as a loved one of an addict. A lot of us "suffered" from codependent behaviors in our relationships because we were unaware that there were other responses we had as options. Often, and it can happen because we were born into addictive families or because of the current relationship, we wind up realizing that we are spending waaaay more of our life focusing on THEM and what THEY need instead of taking care of OURSELVES. Little by little, we lose ourselves in the relationship until all we are is a worrying mess, with no joy or spirit in our lives. It is a documented, real affliction, one that I hope you will read up on. My favorite book, the one that really helped me in a time of crisis, was Melody Beattie's "Codependent No More." I'm so glad you found the SR forum. Welcome!

canard1

Just now got it off eBay.

splendra

It's the cost...a bottle of liquor cost about the same as one hit of coke which last about 30 minutes. A bottle of liquor one drink per nite would last about two weeks. Very few people will drink like that though.

Trying to figure out his use pattern will drive you crazy cause I seriously doubt he is exactly honest about it anyway. It does sound like he has made it pretty clear that he has no intention to stop using now that I would believe. He probably considers it none of your business.

It does sound like you are rummaging thru his things and that is really what most of us codies come to find out is unhealthy. I have done it and probably at least half of us here have done it maybe more especially the spouses and the ones who have kids with their As. The reason it is unhealthy is because we are not focusing on ourself when we do it plus we don't have a right to go thru their personal stuff unless they ask us too. It is something else when we find their paraphernalia on the coffee table or in the kids bathroom cause that shows a real lack of care for others but we do need stay out of their brief cases and places that we know are private. Besides if we "suspect" something we can probably learn how to trust our gut and act accordingly.

matrix

I am also new here, but I can really relate to what you’re going through. ASO has been smoking pot for years, very secretively, so I thought it was recreational with friends and only learned 18 months ago that it was morning, noon and night. He promised to quit, then to limit, but he said all the things that your AH says. “He holds a job, is a good dad, nothing bad has happened, etc.” “It’s my problem, why am I so difficult, he just needs it to take the edge off, it’s no different than using alcohol.” My personal favorite was him telling me that his using pot to manage anxiety is no different than my using Advair to manage my asthma.
10 days ago I found out that he has been using cocaine for several months, when he failed a medical test for life insurance. He has promised to quit, actually seems to realize that coke was a problem, but is still trying to convince me that pot is no big deal. He wants to gloss over the lies, screwing up our finances, endangering our son with driving high, etc...and I struggle not to buy into it.
I am trying to think about things differently and not buying into his crap. He keeps claiming it’s not a problem, but when does it become a problem. Does he have to crash the car and hurt himself or hurt our son. Does he have to spend more than the several thousand dollars he’s already spent on drugs. Does he have steal money from me. Does he have to lose his job. Where do I draw the line?
Then, there is our son. He’s five and seems to be ok, but when will it not be ok for him anymore. I am his mom and I have to protect him. His dad is not thinking about protecting him, but only about how to justify his own behavior. Also, he keeps going on about his right to use drugs, his right to do what he wants. I am trying to remind myself that I have rights too. I want to be treated with honesty, respect and affection, which is what I offer him. He can’t offer me that, while he is busy lying and deceiving me.
Like you, I am really angry that he has put us in this place. I have told him to get clean or move out. I hope that I have the strength to follow through.

lizw

I know you probably feel angry, scared, worried, disappointed, betrayed, confused etc.. the list goes on and on. I hope you made it to your Nar Anon meeting.

If you can, just leave your husband to be as he is, as crazy as that sounds and as hard as that is, and do something kind for you. Have a long bath. Rent a DVD. Go and have a cup of coffee at a cafe. Go for a walk somewhere nice.

Give yourself permission to not worry and fret about him for awhile and give yourself/your mind a break - you deserve it. Seriously. It takes a lot of energy to live with what you described. :ghug3

11d

Addicts can not control their drug use. If he could, why would he be walking aroung work with crack pipes? What is really scarry for me, is that I would have NEVER guessed how much he was using. He was using so much that a normal person would be dead. Their bodies become use to the stuff and they require more and more JUST TO FEEL "NORMAL"!
What helped me was reading "Codependent No More" by Melody Beatty. I was SOOOO confused like you and she explains it all. I understood why I did the things I did and why I was going crazy. That is when You have to learn to detach with love. It means to NOT REACT. Detach (physically, mentally, emotionally) from whatever upsets you, takes you away from you serenity and THINK! What are you boundaries and what are you consequences. Set them and if he crosses them then he has to suffer the consequences. FOr me that is NO DRUG USE or any person in active addiction OR I leave with the kids. If I demand drug test and he refuses....I'm gone. He sought recovery and is working a program but he know my boundaries and I have to be firm. Addicts learn to push the boundary lines back and then you are accepting things that you can't believe you did. You have to focus on you and your kids. I searched EVERYTHING> and I have to work on that character defect and stop. Turn it over to GOd.
If I can give you a positive thought it is......The path to your higher power is not easy and it is not smooth. There is a wonderful reason at the end of this hard path and that is a way to God. Praying for you......

ZombieWife

I guess my response to that would be, "and do you think I asked to be married to a coke addict, to worry constantly? To wonder if you are sober or jacked up with the kids? To be AFRAID To leave you alone with them? To search the house when you are gone for signs of use? To check the bills, to rifle through your pockets, to wonder if you'll ever get pulled over while you are high and our children are in the back seat and I have to get a call from social services? Do you think when I was little, I wanted to marry a man who sucked illegal substances up his nose then blew it off and compare it to taking out the trash?"

YOU didn't ask for any of this.

And you aren't a doormat, you care. You are a human being. It's so easy for people to say, "JUST LEAVE" until they are in your shoes, experiencing all you feel, taking care of your kids, your house, sleeping in your bed. It's not that simple, but you can make it simpler by preparing yourself if there ever comes a time and you cannot stand it any longer and have to leave.

I haven't told any of my friends about my husbands drug use. My mom knows because I found out he was using when I was 40 weeks pregnant and I was crying on the couch to her, balling my eyes out. My mom knows. My father knows and my husbands' counsellor's know. His cousin knows. I called his cousin once to tell him because I was desperate and I knew I could trust him not to tell my husband or anyone else. He gave me great advice which I took. Maybe there is someone close to him that you can trust and talk to, someone he respects and looks up to.

I also know what it's like to walk on eggshells. I would have done anything to avoid an argument. I finally just wrote it all out in a letter and gave it to him. I left and gave him time to read it alone, to absorb it. Reading can have a bigger impact and he can't argue back and try any manipulation tactics to turn the subject of the conversation. Again, just an idea. Maybe you can plan a day or two away with family or friends or just with you and the kids. Leave him the note. Tell him you're going away to think, to give him time to really read what you've written, that you'll be back to talk if he wants. If he doesn't, then maybe you will have set up boundaries and consequences that you can follow through on by then. I just find writing/reading to be less intrusive, less confrontational, more intimate. It's there in black and white.

Anyway, have to give a little one a bath! Will check in later. Hang tight, mamacita. You're definitley in all our thoughts.

Callie

Great thread - I can relate to everything here. I too have heard "It's no different than getting drunk". Um yea, it's illegal! I've also heard the "I don't have a problem", line or "I can quit at anytime."

If you read the threads I've either started too or contributed to on the SA forum, you'll find ALOT of valuable information about what goes through an addicts mind and how they think.

It is so hard to detach, to let it go. ZW is spot on when she said nobody can understand it until they walk in your shoes. I too am hiding all of this in secrecy for the most part. My parents knew of a rehab last year, but think everything is just fine now. I don't talk to my friends about any of this. They would be blown away. Their major complaints about their H's is that they don't mow straight or that they're not very handy at fixing things around the house. My problems are just so out of the normal range of the average american couple.

Keep reading here - it's so helpful. For me, some days are terrible, some days are better. It is truely a rollercoaster ride that they are taking us on. It's not fair, we didn't ask to be dealt with these cards. But it's up to US to do something about it if they won't. For our kids and for ourselves. Not saying that tomorrow I won't be a crying, sobbing mess. But I do my best to pick myself up and keep chugging along.

ZombieWife

Callie, I can't tell you how true this is for me as well. I think I worry that my friends will judge him because none of my close friends have ever done hard core drugs. I don't want them to look at him differently or worry. I also don't want them to worry, to fret over things I've already worried about myself. People in our position have thought of all the worst case scenarios, have had the worries. The flip side is that it gets lonely. If not for this board, I honestly don't know where I would be sometimes. I feel like I can come here completely anonymously and talk, just talk, and people understand.

Another reason why I really limited my telling of people is that once you do, you have NO control over who else knows. You can't control who that person tells and then it can spread out and become a bad situation.

And yes, I have good days and bad days. Some days I feel stronger than superman and other days I just wither inside and want to curl up and sleep and dream of another life.

canard1

The letter is a great suggestion. I think then I could get my thoughts out and not have to worry about the confrontation aspect. I'm heading up to my mom's in a couple weeks and I'm going to start working on it now. I am very anxious to read the recommended book as well to try to understand why I'm doing (or not doing) what I am.

And I'm so sorry that there are so many good people that have had to go through this because it's a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anyone. You are a wonderful bunch of people- I'm touched by the warmth of this board. I feel better just having this outlet- makes such a difference when you don't have anyone to talk to. Especially when my worry with my husband is "will he be on coke today?" not "he didn't put the clothes in the dryer". Wish that was our biggest problem. We went to a potluck at school kids will be attending and he was coked up before we left (I can usually tell now- the signs are there and it's predictable- such a good mood! Then approx. 1 hour later can't be there anymore has to go home) and has a beer. Then drives us all over there. I want to kick myself for being so passive. No more. That can't happen anymore. But I don't want to fight in front of the kids and have a major blowout. Next time, and there will be one, I want the strength to tell him I drive or he stays home. God knows I don't want him on the road endangering everyone else. Though he doesn't think twice about this. He's come home puking after a night of ??? and still has driven himself. He just thinks he's too smart to get caught. That he can talk the cops out of anything. During the thick of things last year I would pray he would get pulled over and sent to jail.

If I had a friend telling me this I'd be saying "walk, don't run! get out of there with the kids!" but you don't know until you walk in another's shoes.

And Zombiewife I sure wish I had you on my shoulder when my husband was yelling about this not being the life he wanted... your response is exactly what I feel.

I have actually been thinking about going to church, but he talks me out of that to and won't encourage the boys to go with me. When I suggest taking them, he tells them it's boring and they won't like it and then questions me for wanting to go at all. I'm just looking for something spiritually uplifting to share with my kids, but there is no way he will make it sound positive enough they will go with me.

ZombieWife

I think church is a great idea. You don't need him to go or his permission. Maybe you can look into a time that has some fun classes for the kids while you go to the main service? The only way you'll be able to tell if they'll be bored or if they won't like it is to try. Spirituality is a personal thing, imho, and I always believe you have to respect what someone else believes--even if it's not for you.

And if you want any help with the letter or want us to look at any parts, I imagine we'd all be willing to give you our opinions. I know something like that is very personal, so anything you'd want to share or not share is fine.

Lots of big hugs again.

:ghug2

Bedtime for me. Baby was up at 3am last night. Teething. OY.
:mog

11d

At first, I was so confused as you....and going through his things, and researching everything about his drugs and addiction, and wanting to confront him,....and.... It just goes on. It is very hard to detach and really figure out how to do it. For me, I began to run everyday and listening to certain music. I found I heard songs in a different way that were now speaking to me. I don't ask about church, going somewhere with the kids,.....I just DO IT! He has started to ask if he can come! I always agree if he is clean and sober. He knows my boundaries.

There are other relationship issues that happened toward the end...he has no sexual libido, erectile dysfunction, there is no trust, alienation from friends and family, depression, can't sleep, he complains of body aches and pains (like the flu), ...there is alot of other things to deal with. He has been clean for 7.5 months! They say give it at least 28 weeks for chemicals in the brain to return. It is hard that is why I must detach from him.

Callie

This is exactly how I feel. My problems are completely out there - like not from the world that I live in. Plus I've done so much research, talked to so many counselors I see the cycle and understand how hard it is to get out of. At first I concealed it because of shame, embarassment and to protect him. I didn't want people judging him. I still feel that way. It's so hard listening to your friends whine or complain when I would give ANYTHING to have things that minimal to complain about with my AH.

I realize that I will have to tell my parents and close family. But I have no intention of uttering anything else to the general public. I don't want to do that to my kids, my AH or myself. I carry the shame and embarassment of his choices every day. Just last night AH shows @ my kids ball practice and I was immediately nervous. I went up to him trying to channel him all night. Keep him by my side so he wouldn't talk to people. Afraid that they would see he was on something. Trying to protect him, my kids and myself from that shame. In reality the "average eye" most likely wouldn't detect anything. He would just be overly friendly and overly talkative and just quirky, odd acting. But people see it in a cute way. AH is very good looking so he's able to charm alot of people.

Today I'm scared to death because he took the night off of work to go to my kids baseball game. I will spend the day begging him to keep it to a minimum and then the entire game channeling him, keeping him away from as many people as I can. What a nice life to live huh?

canard1

There is another email I could have written, Callie.

I so know how you feel- the last time at the school I'm keeping my eye on him, making sure he's not being over talkative, too enthusiastic, and I can smell the alcohol along with know he's done coke. Just miserable- I follow him around if he walks off with the kids. And we have t-ball game tomorrow so I'm hoping it's early enough he won't be on anything. Really sucks... and then he obviously won't get why I am not interested in any physical contact. Another of our issues... again my fault b/c of my lack of interest. Good grief what a vicious cycle.

And he makes noises of going somewhere with me and the kids but I'm exhausted at the thought of having to worry about whether he is using or when or how. Makes my stomach turn actually.

hello-kitty

Hi Canard and welcome. This is a great time to start focusing on you and doing things for yourself. Church is a great idea. At least you can get a break and some supoprt. And your children can spend time around people who are better role models than their father right now.

I strongly suggest that instead of focusing on whether or not he s using or when or how, start taking a look at your families finances... start putting a little money away for a rainy day in a safe place that your husband doesn't know about. An emergency fund will go a long way in an emergency and you will be grateful that you have it.

People who are smoking coke (also known as crack - they are the SAME THING), progress very quickly in their useage. Their mental state just gets worse and worse and worse. It doesn't get better until they decide to get help. And even then it doesn't always get better. Some addicts just reach a point where they will give up their entire lives & families to chase their drug of choice. They just can't quit.

canard1

Thank you for your note, hello-kitty. Boy, does that name bring back memories!

I am trying to do just as you and a few others have suggested. You are right I need to get on track with my own life and stop worrying about him and the using all the time. My number one priority is safety of my kids which means he can't be driving us around or managing them alone if he is using.

This rock I found- does it mean he is smoking? Do coke users get a rock and then chip off pieces for a line of coke? Or is that just silly- they would get in powder if they wanted to snort it? The rock really through me as prior I've just found the vials that had powder in them. But this rock... I should stop obsessing over it. But if he's smocking crack, then it's really become much worse then I thought and the spiral sounds like it's pretty rapid.

11d

Does it matter what the rock is? It is a drug! He is using. YOu are obsessing over his drug and useage. The 3 C's of Alanon: You didn't cause it, You can't control it and you can't cure it. THe 3 G's of Alanaon: Get off his back, Get out of his way, Get onto myself/yourself. It is hard, but is what you are doing now helping? Are you at peace? When I finally got off of him and got onto myself...I found peace.

What do you want for yourself and your kids? What are your boundaries and their consequences?

greeteachday

Wise words. I know it is difficult not to obsess and attempt to control and to feel the shame and guilt that really is not yours to own. YOU are not responsible for the addict's choices, but by trying to own and control them, I think it adds to how unhappy and probably physically and emotionally sick you are feeling.

The only way I could begin to change my actions and reactions was to actively work on me. I found the suggested books, Naranon meetings and speakign with the new friends I made there; working the steps and coming here to be a way to turn my life around and find serenity, regardless of what the addicts in my life did. I learned that what other people think is really none of my business. I learned that no matter how much I worry, project and attempt to control what is not mine to control, the future was not going to change(and to me personally, I believe by being positive and not projecting, I have made each today better than it would ever have been with the "old me"), I was just going to be miserible getting there.

Up until the last 2 years, I believed that if I could just say things over and over, the "you don't understand, if you would just take my advice...just do what I know is right for you" type approach, that I would get through to all those people (and for me it wasn't just addicts) who just wouldn't do it the way I thought they should, and that I could change things. I realized how judgemental and pompous this thinking was, and how I robbed my loved ones of the right to learn their own life lessons and experience both the negative and positive results of their choices. Somewhere within my recovery journey, I let go of that need to control, and I just stopped doing that. I think it was when I came to the realization that debating with an active addict was a form of insanity for me...the person isn't speaking...the addiction is in total control and defending it's right to take over. Now if asked an opinion or advice, when I choose to give it (sometimes I say well what do you think, instead) I say it once and let go. Anything else for me, I know I am trying to control. I can't tell you how liberating this has been.

It takes lots of time and a true commitment...Baby steps all the way. But the rewards are huge...Can you imagine feeling stress free most all of the time? Can you imagine true serentiy? You are doing fine by coming here and taking those steps towards finding a way out of the darkness...just keep focusing on you and the kids!