methadone detox help....please
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Location: sarasota, florida
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methadone detox help....please
Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. My 24 year old son is detoxing from methadone as we speak. He's been on methadone about 2 years, maybe more, to get off heroin, oxycontin, vicodin or whatever he could get, but shooting was his thing. He wants to quit the meth, so the meth clinic put him on a program where they are taking him down from 70 mg. to nothing in 10 days. Today is his 6th day and he has been calling me saying he can't take it. He's shaking, weak, having tremors and twitches and feels like he has the flew. I don't know what to tell him. Should I just encourage him to keep going or tell him he shouldn't try to detox so fast? I feel helpless. Can this be dangerous? Oh, I forgot to mention he has hepatitis c. Yea, the kid is a mess. I want to help him. Any advice would be so helpful right now...for both of us. Thanks!
Armchair Revolutionary
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lawnguyland
Posts: 116
I think you should get him checked in somewhere. If he gets desperate and his methadone supply is the same place that's trying to ween him down, he might wind up using. I don't know what they would say to someone who wants to be put on normal methadone again after trying to detox. He really should be under supervision in a facility right now.
Good luck to you and your son!
Good luck to you and your son!
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
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From what I gathered from addicts on other message boards, withdrawing from done is the absolute worst and the agony often persists for months.
Addicts who have done it, seem to agree that when reducing by more than 2 mg a week, the likelihood that the addict will return to his/her DOC increases as they need relief.
What kind of support is available to your son since this sounds like a major rapid detox?
Addicts who have done it, seem to agree that when reducing by more than 2 mg a week, the likelihood that the addict will return to his/her DOC increases as they need relief.
What kind of support is available to your son since this sounds like a major rapid detox?
Attitude of Gratitude
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,305
I am in a Methadone Treatment Program, on 70 mg. and have been since July of '05.
And I can say that if your Son is being detoxed that fast off of Methadone, I hope he isn't alone. He is going to be very sick for a few weeks at least. He's is being honest when he says he is shaky, nervous and twitching and will also more than likely begin to be nauseated and throwing up, have diarrhea, have pain to where every bone and muscle in his body hurts . . . he's going through a severe withdrawal.
I can't help but wonder if there is something he isn't telling you, but now IS NOT the time to discuss this. At the Clinic I go to, when someone chooses to go off of Methadone voluntarily, they only take a person down 2mg. at a time, every 10 - 15 days depending on how high of a dose they are on and how long they have been on Methadone and using opiates. The only time they bring someone down any faster than this is if there has been a serious violation of the rules of the Clinic. And if this is the case, they do this over a 30 day period.
The best way you can support him now is to see if you can get him to go to the Dr. at the Clinic or someone else in the medical dept. immediately and have them stop detoxing him so fast. If going off the Metadone was his choice, they should honor his request. If they won't I suggest taking him to the ER. This is way too fast. It is serious. Don't play with something like this. He's only going to get sicker and sicker each day.
Please feel free to PM me if I can answer any further questions you may have. I hope he can get this slowed way down.
God Bless you Both,
Judy
And I can say that if your Son is being detoxed that fast off of Methadone, I hope he isn't alone. He is going to be very sick for a few weeks at least. He's is being honest when he says he is shaky, nervous and twitching and will also more than likely begin to be nauseated and throwing up, have diarrhea, have pain to where every bone and muscle in his body hurts . . . he's going through a severe withdrawal.
I can't help but wonder if there is something he isn't telling you, but now IS NOT the time to discuss this. At the Clinic I go to, when someone chooses to go off of Methadone voluntarily, they only take a person down 2mg. at a time, every 10 - 15 days depending on how high of a dose they are on and how long they have been on Methadone and using opiates. The only time they bring someone down any faster than this is if there has been a serious violation of the rules of the Clinic. And if this is the case, they do this over a 30 day period.
The best way you can support him now is to see if you can get him to go to the Dr. at the Clinic or someone else in the medical dept. immediately and have them stop detoxing him so fast. If going off the Metadone was his choice, they should honor his request. If they won't I suggest taking him to the ER. This is way too fast. It is serious. Don't play with something like this. He's only going to get sicker and sicker each day.
Please feel free to PM me if I can answer any further questions you may have. I hope he can get this slowed way down.
God Bless you Both,
Judy
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by beachbumb 
Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. My 24 year old son is detoxing from methadone as we speak. He's been on methadone about 2 years, maybe more, to get off heroin, oxycontin, vicodin or whatever he could get, but shooting was his thing. He wants to quit the meth, so the meth clinic put him on a program where they are taking him down from 70 mg. to nothing in 10 days. Today is his 6th day and he has been calling me saying he can't take it. He's shaking, weak, having tremors and twitches and feels like he has the flew. I don't know what to tell him. Should I just encourage him to keep going or tell him he shouldn't try to detox so fast? I feel helpless. Can this be dangerous? Oh, I forgot to mention he has hepatitis c. Yea, the kid is a mess. I want to help him. Any advice would be so helpful right now...for both of us. Thanks!
Of course I can only speak from my experience of dealing with my AH when he detoxed methadone....twice (or was it three times?), but I hope it helps.
I was very involved with the first time he detoxed here at home. The next times were in medically supervised rehabs, but I stayed in contact with the nurses.
It can be very dangerous to detox of methadone too quickly. It was strongly recommended that my AH only do it under medical care - slowly.
I don't remember the specific amounts he was taking (he was taking a lot of pills --up to 200mg a day), but doctors took him off very slowly. The first time it took about 2 months, and even that was hell. He was taking things to help with the withdrawals, but it was still painful -- like what you described. What he referred to as "bone pain" lasted even longer --secondary withdrawals. During this time, he went down 10 mg every week, until he was finally off.
In rehab, on suboxone and some others, he was able to do it in about a week, but he still had lasting withdrawals, both physical and mental. They had to constantly watch his blood pressure because it was too low.
What was the rush in getting him off so fast?
Again, I hope this helps, take care.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Hi BeachBumb
Firstly, I would ask you to please consider not referring to methadone as "meth". It is very common to use that term to refer to methamphetamine, and many people tend to confuse the two when the term is used for methadone, and causes many problems for methadone patients and their families.
Next, I would say that tapering someone off methadone safely cannot possibly be done the way your son is doing it. Relapse is literally almost 1`00% certain if he continues this way. The recommended rate of taper is 10% of the patient's dose every 2-4 weeks, and this amount is always 10% of the CURRENT dose, so it changes as the patient goes down. Also it is crucial to taper all the way down to 1mg to avoid withdrawals.
Methadone is different from other opiates due to its very long half life. With most opiates, severe withdrawals (shaking, freezing, diarrhea, cramps, vomiting, chills, watery eyes, runny nose, restless legs, inability to sleep, bone crushing pain, etc) are over within 3-5 days. However with methadone it can last weeks or even months, at this severe stage, before starting to lessen. This can be very dangersous for the patient and can even result in death, seizures, stroke, etc.
PLEASE urge your son to stop this taper immediately, go back up to 70mg, and when he has restabilized in a few days time, start a sensible taper at the suggested rate above. The fact is that only about 10% of those tapering off methadone are still drug free a year later, so it pays to give yourself the best possible chance of success by doing it right. Yes, it takes time, but so many people get on methadone, start feeling better, and decide they are sick of the clinic, sick of paying for their medication, etc and try to jump off, only to come crawling back in a few weeks later in full blown relapse.
Methadone is a medication for a chronic disease--opiate addiction. Sometimes, long term opioid addiction can alter the normal brain chemistry to such an extent that even after years of abstinence, the brain never agin returns to normal endorphin production, leaving the patient severely depressed, anxious, exhausted, unable to feel pleasure or happiness, and beset with cravings. For these folks, long term methadone treatment can restor the brain to a normal balance without causing a high or euphoria, allowing them to function normally, but only for as long as they remain on treatment. For others, it can be a stepping stone to a life of abstinence. Which way your son will go remains to be seen, but he must do a proper taper to have a chance at success.
Firstly, I would ask you to please consider not referring to methadone as "meth". It is very common to use that term to refer to methamphetamine, and many people tend to confuse the two when the term is used for methadone, and causes many problems for methadone patients and their families.
Next, I would say that tapering someone off methadone safely cannot possibly be done the way your son is doing it. Relapse is literally almost 1`00% certain if he continues this way. The recommended rate of taper is 10% of the patient's dose every 2-4 weeks, and this amount is always 10% of the CURRENT dose, so it changes as the patient goes down. Also it is crucial to taper all the way down to 1mg to avoid withdrawals.
Methadone is different from other opiates due to its very long half life. With most opiates, severe withdrawals (shaking, freezing, diarrhea, cramps, vomiting, chills, watery eyes, runny nose, restless legs, inability to sleep, bone crushing pain, etc) are over within 3-5 days. However with methadone it can last weeks or even months, at this severe stage, before starting to lessen. This can be very dangersous for the patient and can even result in death, seizures, stroke, etc.
PLEASE urge your son to stop this taper immediately, go back up to 70mg, and when he has restabilized in a few days time, start a sensible taper at the suggested rate above. The fact is that only about 10% of those tapering off methadone are still drug free a year later, so it pays to give yourself the best possible chance of success by doing it right. Yes, it takes time, but so many people get on methadone, start feeling better, and decide they are sick of the clinic, sick of paying for their medication, etc and try to jump off, only to come crawling back in a few weeks later in full blown relapse.
Methadone is a medication for a chronic disease--opiate addiction. Sometimes, long term opioid addiction can alter the normal brain chemistry to such an extent that even after years of abstinence, the brain never agin returns to normal endorphin production, leaving the patient severely depressed, anxious, exhausted, unable to feel pleasure or happiness, and beset with cravings. For these folks, long term methadone treatment can restor the brain to a normal balance without causing a high or euphoria, allowing them to function normally, but only for as long as they remain on treatment. For others, it can be a stepping stone to a life of abstinence. Which way your son will go remains to be seen, but he must do a proper taper to have a chance at success.
Last edited by zenith; 06-03-2008 at 09:16 PM. Reason: spelling
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I am haunted by this thread. There does not appear to be any reason why a methadone clinic would attempt to detox anyone in a period of just ten days.
I cannot find any evidence that supports a serious health risk but by golly, it sure sounds like he will feel like he is dying, which can easily trigger a relapse into the DOC.
I can't help but feel that there is a piece of this puzzle that has gone missing. Is he going into the clinic for his daily reduced dosage? Is he able to go into the clinic or is he too sick? If he is local, it might be worthwhile, to accompany him.
I cannot find any evidence that supports a serious health risk but by golly, it sure sounds like he will feel like he is dying, which can easily trigger a relapse into the DOC.
I can't help but feel that there is a piece of this puzzle that has gone missing. Is he going into the clinic for his daily reduced dosage? Is he able to go into the clinic or is he too sick? If he is local, it might be worthwhile, to accompany him.
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Thank you all for the responses. My son lives in NC and I live in Fl. He's there with no family. I agree that there is a piece to this puzzle missing. I also agree now is not the time to try to find out. I am on a flight this afternoon to see him. I booked a return ticket to bring him back if he'll come. He has a 2 year old son that he does not want to leave. If I can't get him to come home for a little while to get himself on the right track, at least I can be of some support for a few days. Gosh, I know you all know how draining this is. I wish I knew what to do. I want to be as much help as possible, but I also don't want to be an enabler. I just hope he truly wants to be clean and stay clean. I guess I shouldn't I hope that's what he wants because I know that's what he wants, I guess I don't know what to think. Thanks again everyone. I'll be back Sunday, with or without my son.
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[QUOTE=zenith;1792556]Hi BeachBumb
Firstly, I would ask you to please consider not referring to methadone as "meth". It is very common to use that term to refer to methamphetamine, and many people tend to confuse the two when the term is used for methadone, and causes many problems for methadone patients and their families.
:sorry...I didn't know that. Methadone it is from now on.
Firstly, I would ask you to please consider not referring to methadone as "meth". It is very common to use that term to refer to methamphetamine, and many people tend to confuse the two when the term is used for methadone, and causes many problems for methadone patients and their families.
:sorry...I didn't know that. Methadone it is from now on.
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My daughter is also tapering down from Methadone...but also doing 5mg every week, but that's starting from 120mg.
Once you are at 70 or 60 mg dropping by 5mg is a large amt. She explains like this..when you are at 100 mg and drop by 10mg.... that is 1/10th of your daily dose...when you are at 50 and drop by 10...that is 1/5 of the medication that your body is used to getting and she says when you are down at 70, 60, or 50, they recommend dropping by 2 per week. She says after a drop in dosage it takes 48 hours for your body to notice....if your son is dropping by 10/day....he's going to be very sick in 2 days time.
Just my humble opinion.
P.S.
My daughter just told me that if you miss 3 doses of methadone...(due to whatever reasons), they will cut you off because if they give you your normal dose after 3 missed doses....they can overdose you. So perhaps that is the missing puzzle piece. She says no reputable methadone clinic would taper you down like that!!
Hope that's helpful
Once you are at 70 or 60 mg dropping by 5mg is a large amt. She explains like this..when you are at 100 mg and drop by 10mg.... that is 1/10th of your daily dose...when you are at 50 and drop by 10...that is 1/5 of the medication that your body is used to getting and she says when you are down at 70, 60, or 50, they recommend dropping by 2 per week. She says after a drop in dosage it takes 48 hours for your body to notice....if your son is dropping by 10/day....he's going to be very sick in 2 days time.
Just my humble opinion.
P.S.
My daughter just told me that if you miss 3 doses of methadone...(due to whatever reasons), they will cut you off because if they give you your normal dose after 3 missed doses....they can overdose you. So perhaps that is the missing puzzle piece. She says no reputable methadone clinic would taper you down like that!!
Hope that's helpful
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My AH was on methadone about 10 years ago. He was in and out of treatment centers to detox off methadone because it is very painful and the withdrawals are apparently much worse than detoxing off the opiates that got you on methadone to begin with.
He ultimately maxed out his insurance and his options trying to come off the methadone and cold turkied off of, I think he said 70 mgs (after coming down from about 150 mg which is ALOT). He spent the next 6 mo. in and out of pyschiatric facilities because it messed him up so bad.
I hope you get your son and I hope you are able to get him somewhere that can take him down slowly and safely. Methadone serves a great purpose and it's affordable. From reading other threads, it is my understanding that you can come off it with little or no withdrawals if done correctly.
Best of luck to you!
He ultimately maxed out his insurance and his options trying to come off the methadone and cold turkied off of, I think he said 70 mgs (after coming down from about 150 mg which is ALOT). He spent the next 6 mo. in and out of pyschiatric facilities because it messed him up so bad.
I hope you get your son and I hope you are able to get him somewhere that can take him down slowly and safely. Methadone serves a great purpose and it's affordable. From reading other threads, it is my understanding that you can come off it with little or no withdrawals if done correctly.
Best of luck to you!
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Hi, I'm back from my trip to see my son, and he did not come back with me. I spoke to a nurse at the methadone clinic who told me that he did not recommend the 10 day detox. They did it because it was what my son wanted. His last dose was Tuesday morning and i got there Wednesday. At first he was taking something (I can't remember the name) that he said they give you in a detox center. I looked it up and found out it was for blood pressure. He ran out of those and then started taking a muscle relaxer and Valium. He said a friend had them and gave him a few. (?) All he did Saturday and Sunday was sleep. I spoke to him today and he sounded great, only to tell me that a "friend" gave him ten suboxone. What a moron! He's going to end up 6ft under ground. I told him I can only do so much to help him but if he's not going to help himself he'll never get better. He also lost his job. So, no job, behind on his rent, no money and a car that doesn't work. How is he going to make it? He's in for trouble. I did so much for him while I was there so he would have a few less things to worry about and in stead of taking advantage of it to try to get back on his feet, he does this stuff. Does anyone who has gone through this see any hope? I don't!
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Suboxone ... is actually what some treatment centers give clients who are withdrawing from opiates..... THAT is actually a good thing! It will decrease the withdrawal symptoms..... AND it also has an ingredient that is an opiate antagonist that won't allow him to get high off of the opiates.
Methadone wds are very hard and more difficult than oxy wds.
Going on suboxone is actually going to help him...... not hurt him. Eventually he will have to wd off those, but it's not as bad as wding on methadone. He should be doing this all under doctors or treatment care..... but him being on suboxone is not a bad thing......... check out the substance abuse forum.... they talk about it a lot on there!
(((hugs)))
Methadone wds are very hard and more difficult than oxy wds.
Going on suboxone is actually going to help him...... not hurt him. Eventually he will have to wd off those, but it's not as bad as wding on methadone. He should be doing this all under doctors or treatment care..... but him being on suboxone is not a bad thing......... check out the substance abuse forum.... they talk about it a lot on there!
(((hugs)))
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Originally Posted by Abundance
Suboxone ... is actually what some treatment centers give clients who are withdrawing from opiates..... THAT is actually a good thing! It will decrease the withdrawal symptoms..... AND it also has an ingredient that is an opiate antagonist that won't allow him to get high off of the opiates.
Methadone wds are very hard and more difficult than oxy wds.
Going on suboxone is actually going to help him...... not hurt him. Eventually he will have to wd off those, but it's not as bad as wding on methadone. He should be doing this all under doctors or treatment care..... but him being on suboxone is not a bad thing......... check out the substance abuse forum.... they talk about it a lot on there!
(((hugs)))
Methadone wds are very hard and more difficult than oxy wds.
Going on suboxone is actually going to help him...... not hurt him. Eventually he will have to wd off those, but it's not as bad as wding on methadone. He should be doing this all under doctors or treatment care..... but him being on suboxone is not a bad thing......... check out the substance abuse forum.... they talk about it a lot on there!
(((hugs)))
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He is going to be hurting really bad again after 2 days or maybe 5 days.... because the sub will stay in his system still for a few (i think)...... and taking opiates is NOT going to make him feel better. Did you let him know this? Advise him to at least go to a clinic to continue with the suboxone..... can you get in touch with his friends that are helping him?
I know that is a total codie response.... and so not hands off the addict ...... but actually he is "helping" himself...... so I would try to contact one of his friends who is helping him.
I am sorry that I don't have anymore information.... maybe post this on the substance abuse forum... ???? They might have more answers for you.
On a good note...... at least he is seeking to get off them instead of staying on them.....
I know how worried you are...... I wish I could do more ...... as I know you wish you could as well........
I know that is a total codie response.... and so not hands off the addict ...... but actually he is "helping" himself...... so I would try to contact one of his friends who is helping him.
I am sorry that I don't have anymore information.... maybe post this on the substance abuse forum... ???? They might have more answers for you.
On a good note...... at least he is seeking to get off them instead of staying on them.....
I know how worried you are...... I wish I could do more ...... as I know you wish you could as well........
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I agree with all of this. My AH got off methadone 1.5 years ago through a 3 day detox. He was a mess - shaking, nervous, no energy, sleeping all of the time. It took him 5 weeks to go back to work 5 days a week 8 hours a day. I felt like WTH - you've done this and your family deserves to suffer financialy because of you! I had NO tolerance for this - but after the fact, I do. It took him about 5 months to get back to "normal". (doing 2 hour shift increments). He was pretty much the "one" who paid the bills here. "my" money was extra for cars and vacations and what not. I was FURIOUS that he couldn't/wouldn't hold up his end of the bargain. He pretty much had NO slack from me.
What did he do when he got back to "normal"? Got himself into oxy and percocet. For 1.5 years I had no clue. I'm learning NOW that he tapered off of them WAAAY too soon. He too took AT LEAST 80 mg @ a time - chewing them or whatever. He went back to opiates 5 monthes later. Do your research and direct him in the right path. It sounds like he's really suffering, but wants the help. HTH - I wish I'd known all of this before AH got addicted again. Suboxone was the enemy when I was doing my research. Maybe not the case from all I've read here.
Addiction is like being in another country - where you don't know the culture, don't speak the language. Everything is foreign to you. But if you want to understand the ins and outs you need to learn it. Hugs to you - I KNOW how tough this is. Prayers coming your way.
BTW - I would STRONGLY STRONGLY suggest posting this on the SA forum. Keep us posted. - prayers are with you.
What did he do when he got back to "normal"? Got himself into oxy and percocet. For 1.5 years I had no clue. I'm learning NOW that he tapered off of them WAAAY too soon. He too took AT LEAST 80 mg @ a time - chewing them or whatever. He went back to opiates 5 monthes later. Do your research and direct him in the right path. It sounds like he's really suffering, but wants the help. HTH - I wish I'd known all of this before AH got addicted again. Suboxone was the enemy when I was doing my research. Maybe not the case from all I've read here.
Addiction is like being in another country - where you don't know the culture, don't speak the language. Everything is foreign to you. But if you want to understand the ins and outs you need to learn it. Hugs to you - I KNOW how tough this is. Prayers coming your way.
BTW - I would STRONGLY STRONGLY suggest posting this on the SA forum. Keep us posted. - prayers are with you.
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Beach,
My daughter detoxed off of methadone but it was inpatient at a hospital rehab. It was very hard on her. She also had experience with Suboxone. That was really helpful to her. She did it under doctors care. She also went off of them by tapering and was fine.
I think the suboxone is a good thing for him to help with his w/d symptoms. It would be better if he could get them under docs care.
It sounds like he is really trying to do this. I know it may not be your way but let him figure it out. No matter what you say, he will do it his way.
I know how worried your are, I wish I had some answers. I know how strongheaded they can be when it comes to doing it their own way.
My best to you and your son................Lo
My daughter detoxed off of methadone but it was inpatient at a hospital rehab. It was very hard on her. She also had experience with Suboxone. That was really helpful to her. She did it under doctors care. She also went off of them by tapering and was fine.
I think the suboxone is a good thing for him to help with his w/d symptoms. It would be better if he could get them under docs care.
It sounds like he is really trying to do this. I know it may not be your way but let him figure it out. No matter what you say, he will do it his way.
I know how worried your are, I wish I had some answers. I know how strongheaded they can be when it comes to doing it their own way.
My best to you and your son................Lo
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I watched a man at my RAD's rehab detox off methadone and it made me cry. It took him three weeks to be able to stand up straight. He could have stayed in the detox unit but chose to crawl to the meetings and classes instead.
I personally know another young man who detoxed on his own off methadone but ended up on subs because, as he said, it was better than shooting again. Today he is clean.
My RAD used methadone for two weeks while she waited to get on subs, and bought them illegally when the wait took longer than anticipated.
Anything they do to try and get clean gives hope.
I'm praying for your serenity beachbumb.
I personally know another young man who detoxed on his own off methadone but ended up on subs because, as he said, it was better than shooting again. Today he is clean.
My RAD used methadone for two weeks while she waited to get on subs, and bought them illegally when the wait took longer than anticipated.
Anything they do to try and get clean gives hope.
I'm praying for your serenity beachbumb.
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suboxone is not necessarily a long term treatment, it can be used to just detox as well.
I don't know anything about methadone but my son was on suboxone and i did alittle research on that. It just might get him over the hump. but he is going to need to get into some program like the 12 steps to stay clean. JMHO
good luck
I don't know anything about methadone but my son was on suboxone and i did alittle research on that. It just might get him over the hump. but he is going to need to get into some program like the 12 steps to stay clean. JMHO
good luck
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