Callie

Is it healthy at all to focus on the anger to propel you to do something? To ask AH to leave? I find that if I can focus on everything he's done that it almost gives me strength and propels me to do something. Not really anger, but just focus on everything he's done TO me and everything he's taken from me. All the lies, deceit, con games - all of it. He's allowed me to spend hours up on hours, days upon days reading, studying, going to counselors, doctors ect. Just to try to help him - when all the while he was on drugs on and off for about 21 years. I've beat my head against a wall for 21 years for this man. I was fighting something that I couldn't even see - drugs.

It's times like today when he was very calm, clear eyed, coherant, remorseful, apologetic for everything he's put me through. This came after a counseling session where IC pretty much reiterated everything I've been saying to AH. I've had periods over the last 21 years (btw, I'm 37) where it's like you +think+ you're getting or have gotten through to him about all that he's doing wrong. It's those period where I think he "gets it" that I have hope.

After the very crazy last few weeks, AH has come off of his binge and is more reasonable. We went to IC today and he suggested H see a psychiatrist. First he suggested rehab - AH swears up and down he doesn't need rehab. But says he will go to another psychiatrist. H promises me he'll stop and says I can test him this weekend because he can get clean "it's only percocet". Thing is that maybe he can, but he'll just go back to it later on.

My question is this,,,, I KNOW this just means another cycle. Another cycle of hope, of doctors, or different meds, of missed appts, of moodiness, ups and downs ect. (They think AH may have bipolar). I've done this for 4 solid years now. Of course IC says that I HAVE to go with him because AH will never be able to convey everything that's been going on. That "I" am the only way to truely get him help because AH can sum up a paragraph in 2 words. I of course will help him in any way that I can get the help he needs. But I want out, I need out. But I NEED to find a way to stay constant on that path. One minute I'm 100% certain that he needs to be gone. But every now and then I see the goodness, I think "well maybe, THIS is the answer. But in reality, I"ve just been through this so many times that it's very unlikely that he'll succeed.

On a + note, he did admit he had a problem, did call and make the dr. appt, got on a cancellation list ect. So he did take those first steps, but following through will be the test. I just need to know how to stay constant on my way to get out. Just so sick of the forward and backwards motion. I'm also so mad that he drug me through this mess without me even knowing the truth. KWIM??

Just having a totally up and down day today. Thanks for reading.

NEVEREnds

I know the foward and backward motion all to well. I try to focus on the anger, resentment, hurt, etc etc to get me through. For some odd reason, I can always remember something good, something sincere, something I love about my AH. That memory seems to set me back and forth .. But I've come to the realization that this is something that will NEVER change with my AH .. I know it is possible for people to come out of this but I don't, or didn't, see that happening with my AH after 13 years. He doesn't need rehab or meetings either .. He can do it on his own when he wants... I'm just not willing to sit back and wait another year, another month, another day until he decides he wants to ... I want nothing more than to be married to the man I loved .. The caring, sensative, fun man I once knew .. The hard worker, the provider ... That man seems to be so far away and i'm not sure he will ever be back ... That is why I decided it was time for him to go .. It isn't easy by any means, but I am getting by day by day, minute by minute, hour by hour ..

Thanks to SR I am in a different place and I am praying that I can stay here ...

Prayers, hugs and strength to you .

hope4always

Anger is a great motivator for a lot of people. The thing is, that anger has to be used to fuel a *positive* step *for you only*. If you are going to hold on to the anger just to hold on to the anger, or use that anger against your husband to attempt to motivate *him*, then it’s only going to eat you up even more and it’ll only bite you on the butt.

On the other hand, some people can make a pro/con list, tally it all up and if the con list far exceeds the pro list, well, that can be a really good motivator to make a change, too. There’s nothing like having everything in black and white that you can read and add to everyday.

I would say, if you are in up/down mode, taking the time to do a really comprehensive pro/con list is definitely the way to go. By the time you’re done with the list, you may find you have the positive anger you need to make a permanent change.

drugdown

Hi Callie,

I've been on the same roller coaster for 15 years. My ah is addicted to heroin and he's using again. I've been through the same script, calling doctors, getting appointments, taking days off to go to appts with him. He finally has a decent job (he was laid off after 9-11 from a job he was at for 17 years). It's taken this long for him to find a full time job with benefits and I'm terrified he's going to lose it or get into an accident and on and on it goes.

Anger has not been successful for me in staying focused on getting my ah out of my life. When he's in active addiction, lying, disappearing...I just want peace....but he won't leave...and in the end I always cave. My threats are empty. When push comes to shove, I cave.

At this point I'm trying to get help for me. I need it. I want it...and I have to make some changes. I'm feeling to much anxiety about his relapse...and all that can go wrong.

I think you're great at finding out information....your very proactive in trying to understand....he's very lucky to have you. Please use some of that great energy on yourself.

Hugs,
dd

Callie

Thanks guys - it's really weird because all of the last few days I've felt anger, but also maybe a bit of forgiveness/sympathy/compassion? It's not a raging anger for the most part. I almost feel strength if I focus on the bad. I've been busy for the last few days and have not seen him hardly @ all. It's during that time that I can stay constant in my path. All of the hurt, the lies, my entire life with him has been built on sand. But it's as if the hatred for everything he's done, is maybe starting to be let it go? (Geeze, I so hope that's the case! )

We have a picture perfect life. Great social circle, great kids, beautiful house, most all of the amenities. BUT (I'm totally not trying to sound like a snob here) it is the life that I created. He just tagged along for the ride. He never took the initiative to do most any of that. Sure he likes all of it, but he can take it or leave it. It's the perfect life, but it's all built on sand. All of this was done while AH dabbled in drugs. During this time I had NO clue the extent of it. I am JUST now finding out what's been going on. He's become so GOOD at weaving these elaborate lies. Lies so good that EVERYONE believed them.

Since posting on SA I've really started to understand his side and how strong this hold is. I feel for him, I can even somewhat understand the cycle. But that doesn't change what I've been through. KWIM? A punch in the gut still hurts whether it was intentional or not.

I keep thinking if I can just TAKE that initial step and get him out then I can focus on the reality. When I see him every day, up and down, high, not high etc. I NEVER know what to expect on a daily basis. Ever. I think maybe if I can remove that from my sight every day then I'll start to get some stability and bearings.

Callie

Just wondered if your addict does this. AH just came off of a binge - gone for 3 days, racked up $2200 in poker debt, high for about 3 weeks (though not totally out of it). (AH is on percocet, vicodin, darvocet type things). After sending me spinning doing damage control we are now in the "calm after the storm". I told him I wanted him out - he was going to go. He was going to his mom's for a while and then find his own place ect. Now 3+ weeks after his binge he's sorry, "truely" sorry. He wants help (though not rehab) will go see the psychiatrist our counselor recommended. Knows this isn't a good life to live, wants better for himself, for us. "We can be happy, I know it. I will be better, I promise, I'm so sorry for everything I've put you through." "You deserve better, and I'm so sorry and ashamed for everything, yada yada yada." I've got about a 10 page letter in front of me he left last night after work chock full of proclaiming his love, apologies, promised changes ect. I KNOW he wants this, but in reality, I've been down this road many times with AH.

He possibly has bipolar, but nobody can know due to the extensive drug use (pain killers). I've drug him to dr. after dr. after dr. He starts out strong working with them, but then quickly dwindles. Starts messing with meds (stopping them, self adjusting or "adding to them"), missing appts. ect.

He did call and make an appt HIMSELF (huge) for the pdoc, but of course he can't get in for another month. Also, the referring counselor pretty much said I HAD to go with AH to the appt. in order for the new doc to have ALL of the pertinant info.

So here I am, yet again, the calm after the storm. It will be fine for a few weeks or even a little longer until the next storm starts brewing. Do you guys go through these cycles? USUALLY in the calm after the storm, I'm always hopeful thinking "FINALLY, we've gotten through to him. We can FINALLY start living a right life! What is so odd about this cycle is that I feel like I will help him, I"ll go to the appts., help research the meds, help monitor him ect. BUT I want him out of the house. IF he can do it on his own, great - we can talk then. But right now I just cannot take another letdown - believe me I've been down the doc road for the last 3+ years with him- I know how this cycle works.

Do you guys go through these ups and downs? It's during the downs that I am constant in my path to leave. It's during the ups that I think "well, maybe just one more chance. Maybe he "got it" this time. Like If I've weathered ALL of these storms and I leave, maybe just maybe I'll miss the rainbow if he DOES get himself right?

Impurrfect

(((Callie)))

As you know, I'm a RA, not married to an addict, but I did leave my XABF behind because he was still using.

I think the remorse, the "I will do better" is common because I've seen it here so much.

I had a lot of anger at my ex, too, but I finally had to face the hard fact that I knew he was an addict, and he didn't do anything to me that I didn't allow him to do. When you don't KNOW what he's doing, it's one thing. But when we know it, we have to accept that we are allowing the behavior to go on.

I had to do a lot of soul-searching, and practically LIVE on this forum, because I realize that I pick men who are addicts/alcoholics and I don't want to do that anymore.

I'm not saying "leave him". I do think that you should focus more on him and let HIM deal with his addiction and consequences. If he doesn't tell the dr. or counselor the whole truth, it's on him. It only shows (to me) that he's not seriously seeking help. When I decided to choose recovery, I told my dr. EVERYTHING!

I can understand, too, the feeling of wondering if you let him go, and he gets clean and straightens up his act, that you will miss out on the good in him. The best way I figured to handle it was to say "I am not going to tolerate this right now". Just because you detach now, or even kick him out, doesn't mean you can't get back together in the future. Of course, neither one of you may WANT to get back together once you focus on your own lives.

He may blame you for not supporting him when you start detaching. You've done nothing BUT support him and what changes has he made? The appts. are a good start, but see if he follows through (on his own) and actually makes changes.

I'm not trying to sound harsh. I just see too many women stick around with an A for years and years, hoping and trying to make things better, when the addict is the only one who can decided....addiction or recovery. The best thing you can do is focus on YOU.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Impurrfect

Sorry, I didn't mean to say "focus more on him and let HIM deal"...I meant to say focus more on YOU.

Callie

Thank you, that is the point I'm at. Like if he does get help, fine/good. I'll support him and do what I can to help him. But it's as if things are so toxic, that I cannot go back. Like things are beyond repair. Sure I care about him, I KNOW I gave it my all. But I just cannot sit here and watch this another time. For 21 years it's been cycle after cycle ect. I KNOW he feels bad for what he's done - but truthfully I don't know that I could ever have a healthy M with him. In reality he's had 21 years worth of chances and he's failed me/us every time.

Bernadette

"It's those period where I think he "gets it" that I have hope."
Right. But the problem is "him getting it" and behavior changing are two different things. Many times in the past I had great soul to soul talks with my brothers. I really felt like they had had a breakthrough- they seemed, momentarily moved, eyes wide open, READY! But alas, they have (so far) always gone back to their old alcoholic behavior. So they didn't "get it" and I "got" another heartache!!

I finally stopped trying to have these "heart to hearts" with them. Because I realized I was ALWAYS only having them for THEM. Trying to make them SEE, to GET IT, and having an expectation that this would mean change in them would be forthcoming.

So that doesn't mean I am unavailable to them if they want to talk or have a deep conversation. If they want to talk I just listen or share things with them that they can help me with. But I won't participate in BS "deep" conversations that are just stop-gap damage-control public relations speeches for their addiction. Because believe me, they know when they have shared "a moment" with you, and they know that this usually buys them some amount of a grace period. But only they know if that will translate into changed behavior (SOBRIETY/RECOVERY) or not. So you can have hope but don't have any expectations.

Only pay attention to behavior/action - never words.

If you need to focus on the anger then so be it. If you need some special fuel to propel yourself out of this relationship then do whatever it takes. Remember it doesn't have to be forever and the perspective you get once you really step off both mentally & physically from his problems will be a grteat reward no matter what happens down the line.

Sending you a prayer for strength and courage and comfort!
Peace,
B.

sojourner

addiction has a circle/cycle that takes two to keep it going. It goes something like:

abusing, being remorseful, the two being on the "same page," then
abusing, being remorseful, the two being on the "same page," then
abusing, being remorseful, the two being on the "same page," etc.

i bet you thought i was talking about the addict. i was not. i was talking about both of you. if you're still involved in the circle, your anger is the abusing part. your sympathy is the remorseful part (you are feeling remorse because you feel bad about the things you did/said/thought when you were angry at him). then you both take a reprieve from the drama and are on the "same page" (you feel like the two of you agree that he has a problem - hallelujah! he's acting responsible in his responsibilities, you are acting responsible in your responsibilities). then you start seeing the signs that typically lead to his using again, and the pressure starts building in you as the cycle continues.

hope that helps

Bernadette

Hey sojourner - that's an awesome post.
And once one of the partners steps out of the dance the music STOPS!

Thank You for that!
Peace,
B.

lightseeker

absolutely - it is a cycle and the dance of it all requires joint participation. The dance stops when one personal finally does something different. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Callie, have you thought about what you need for this relationship to continue instead of what he should or shouldn't do? I used to think about my addict in terms of if he uses then that is it. I finally learned to think of it in terms of "I live in a sober home" and make plans for that to happen. The bottom line comes into play with what I will do or not do - not my addict. Once I've established my boundaries I also have to establish what I will do to maintain them. I can't control whether RAH uses or not but I can control whether I am living with him. My RAH has suspected bipolar too and is attempting to get to the bottom of it now that he is sober. It's a rough ride and I swear it's made me feel bipolar! Up and down, hope and despair....I'm talking about me, not him. Going to face to face meetings, having a sponsor, and working the steps allowed me to finally begin to change myself from the inside out. Before, I wanted RAH to change....now I accept what I cannot change (anything that has to do with someone else) and focus on having the courage to change the things that I can (me). Just because you are taking care of yourself and claiming your own sanity does not mean that you have given up on your husband. I haven't given up on mine but I am now 2 weeks into living in my apartment (had to leave MY house because he wouldn't). I am taking care of myself as best as I can. Finally, I've decided that I want to live in emotional sobriety as well as free from active addiction. Sobriety from drugs got to the point where that wasn't enough for me anymore. Will he take the actions that would allow me to chose to interact with him? I don't know. But I do know that he has to figure that out for himself and he isn't going to do that if I'm there just quacking about leaving and that things have to change. I've gone through lots of him "getting it" but as soon as he feels safe in my affections it is the same old same old. I just can't stand the drama anymore. I am willing to assist him in going to the doctor with him if I have to. I do have a perspective and clarity that RAH doesn't have. His "episodes" are normal to him so he honestly doesn't get it very often. Just because I go to the doctor doesn't mean anything at all other than I'll go to the doctor. If I don't feel comfortable or don't want to go - then I won't.

It's hard and I don't have any great answers. I do know that when I react in anger it's never the right decision for me. I generally over react when I'm mad and then regret what I've said or done. When I am measured and calm my choices and actions generally are ones that I end up being more comfortable with. If I am angry it's time for me to do a 4th step and figure out my part in the situation. Generally, for me, it means that I've either been in denial, not having the self discipline to maintain my boundaries, or exhibiting poor self care. Once I identify that, then I can take the steps that I need to take to remedy those "character defects". Ordinarily, I also identify that many of my resentments and angry feelings are fear based (I might not get what I want or need). I'm trying to learn to depend upon myself to meet my needs and not someone unreliable (like RAH). No wonder I get mad all the time! So - I'm having to do a lot of hard work and create my own life. Like you - a lot of the life that RAH and I have are because of me and what I've done. So, I don't mean to sound like I'm talking about the material things. I'm talking about that inner place of peace and calm. That's what I want now - not drama.

It sounds like you are doing great - having a lot of insight and thoughts about what to do and the motives and intentions behind it. There are no right or wrong answers....only the next right thing.

BayAreaPhoenix

Callie

You asked earlier about holding on to the anger, and then the cycle, etc.

For me, I kept having to remind myself how I got to the end. Granted I didn't know about the addiction, but I knew about the behaviors. By opening up and talking to others, therapy, etc. that saying - A little goes a long way, is good for some circumstances, but in my case, that little bit of good was just not enough to balance out all the emotional distance, lack of friendship, intimacey, etc. that makes a marriage. It didn't make him a bad person, he wasn't abusive, etc. he just wasn't a husband and I kept trying to make it work with the little bit he would give, and it was like trying to use a twin sheet on a California king bed. Odd analogy, but I just got done with a wicked bout of flu yesterday (that's my excuse anyway ).

Point being, hold on to the mad and the bad when it helps you see the real and whole picture for yourself. Don't hold on just because, that will cause bitterness, etc. IMO these things can be used as tools, and in my case were.

hello-kitty

yep. it's real easy to make promises that you'll never use drugs again when you don't have any, when you are out of money, feel like crap, everyone is mad at you & your wife is threatening to leave.

"Boohoo. Poor me. This is not my fault. I'm an addict. I have no control. It's not my fault. I promise I'll try. Don't leave me like this. I'll do whatever you want. Without you I have nothing. Please don't leave me." (famous last words from my ex).

Then 2 weeks later, bam. He'd forgotten his promises and he's using again.

It's a pattern!

But if nothing changes nothing changes. That means us. Not the addict.

All your posts on this board are about your husband and what he's done, and what he needs to do. But what about Callie? What does Callie need to do? What are her areas of responsibility?

You can only be responsible for yourself and your own actions.

It's about you and what you are willing to accept in your life and in the life of your children. It's about drawing firm boundaries for yourself regarding the kind of behavior that you are willing to live with in your life and sticking with them.

Otherwise all we are doing is ensuring that our loved ones can continue to use us and use their drugs without anything getting in the way.

Chino

If he isn't capable of effectively communicating his medical/addiction history, how about typing up a letter and mailing it so you don't have to go? Saving it on your computer or making a copy wouldn't be a bad idea either.

I had to do that for my daughter because drug abuse, post concussive syndrome and anxiety/panic disorder interfered with her ability to communicate. That was advocating for her. When I printed it again when I started seeing an addiction therapist, that was advocating for me.

Prayers for your serenity.

Callie

Thank you all - I'll respond later, I'm going to bed - very long day. Thank you so much for your help .

hope4always

Unless your husband is in a coma and is unable to convey his psych/medical history, you are not the only one who can help him. I’m truly shocked a counselor would even *suggest* you are the “only one” who can help your husband.

If your husband can’t be honest enough or detailed enough with a counselor or shrink, then your husband isn’t serious about his situation. It doesn’t matter if you have a moment-by-moment account of what your husband does. Conveying that won’t change your husband if he doesn’t want to change. The shrink could put him on meds for bi-polar, but that doesn’t mean your husband will take the meds.

And if you really and truly want out, then you can get out. You just have to make the first step.

NeedingHelp7

Would this sum up to enabling codependant behavior?

My husband is not honest with me, he's not honest with dr's. One minute he's telling me he's on one narc med, the next I find out he's on two.

Is it my responsibility to let all dr's know he's an addict "so stop giving him narcotics."

I wrote a letter to his pdoc last year informing him that my AH is an addict and he already knew that, but continued to prescribe him drugs, until my letter. Now he gets drugs from pain management dr's, and who knows who else.


I have completely stopped the physician informing insanity. In fact because of all the lies my husband has told, I have informed him I will have nothing to do with his healthcare.

It's a boundary I had to choose to keep my serenity and sanity.

NH7

11d

The only person that can help the addict is the addict. You did not cause it, you can't control it and you sure cannot cure it. If he wants to stay clean then he will. This is where I have to be. I am a codependent. I have to work on ME> I attend alanon, meditate/pray, and read. Reading Codependent No More by Melody Beatty was very helpful. Recognizing the signs of codependency and what I need to do to stop is helping me to get to that other side. Staying in the chaos of addiction sucks the life out of me. I am still with my RAH. It has been hell. I know I have to live my life for me. I have to let him make his own decisions and suffer his consequences. If I don't then I soften the his fall. And he has to hit hard to save his life. Focus on you. Focus on your recovery, your happiness, your serenity. All you need is within you. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Anvilhead- Reading your posts have been truly helpful to me. You know exactly what to say and how to say it. Bless you and keep posting!