Somebody needs to do something!

Old 05-11-2008, 01:28 PM
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Somebody needs to do something!

Hello Friends,

I need you to talk me off of the ledge. I feel like I have entered some parallel universe and I want to go HOME.

Younger son called older son late last night to say that he had broken up with his girlfriend and wanted to know if he could come here and live with older brother for a few months... until he gets back on his feet. He's a waiter, and a good one, so the job will be here for him, and he'll be able to live on his own within a short time. (we hope)

The reason for the break up is that his sweet, lovely 21 yr girlfriend just happens to be a blackout drunk. My son is tired of her peeing the bed 3 or 4 times a week, barely making it to class, not being able to go to work, not helping with the housekeeping, not contributing her part to the household expenses etc. My son drinks, too - but that's not today's topic.

I was sharing this new information about my son possibly moving back here with Norm this morning, and he had some strong opinions. He gave his dissertation on why AA and Al Anon are a bunch of crap... and that someone needs to tell this girls parents right away, stage an intervention, do SOMETHING to make her get some help. $25,000 or $50,000 is a small amount to pay, you know... don't her parents have insurance - she's in trouble and she could DIE and somebody needs to do something!!!

I stated my case about detachment, about how a person can't be forced into recovery, that a person has to seek it and work it, that maybe this was what she needed in order to find her bottom. Norm thinks my son shares a lot of blame for not "making her" make changes in her life. He really wasn't listening to me or hearing me... he obviously has some very strong feelings about all of this.

I'm proud of my son for realizing this is not the life he wants NOW before it's too late. He knows I'm active in Al Anon and he knows how I work my program and he knows my boundaries. My son knows he can talk to me about this and that I'll point him in the right direction if HE wants help.

I am frustrated and angry and very unsettled after my argument with Norm. He IS, after all, a Normie (Hence the name Norm ! ) but still.... I wasn't able to express myself and my knowledge of the disease. My heart breaks for my son and for his sweet gf because I know the road they have traveled and some of the roads that they will face in their futures. My heart breaks for her parents ~ they are quite a bit older and she's their only child ~ and I really don't know if they know the situation or not.

I almost feel like I need to turn in my Al Anon credentials because I wasn't able to make my case. I couldn't get NORM to understand what I know about the disease.

OR is this just another great example of powerlessness? We admitted we were powerless over alcoholism (and that includes trying to get someone else to "get it") and our lives had become unmanageable....

Thanks for letting me vent.

Hugs
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:51 PM
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here I am another Codie, butting in with my opinion.


I can see where you are coming from with your mom heart hurting for your son, but let's ask a few questions here, and see what we come up with.

How is his move back home going to flow with YOUR life?

How is moving him back home going to help him with his life? (other than saving a few bucks, which I fully understand)

What are the pros and cons of him moving back home?



My thoughts are WAIT.
Don't give an answer now, wait, think, give yourself time to overcome the "mothering Instinct" and see what happens in a week or so.

As for the GF, yeppers you're right, you can lead a horse to water...but....
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:52 PM
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My opinion. Such as it is. I see Norm's point - in a way. She is still very young, obviously still in school... Taking all that into consideration, even tho she is technically an "adult", there is a part of me that feels like a call or note to her parents letting them know that this is what has been witnessed in their daughter, thought they might want to know, please let me know if I can help, wish them luck, and that's the end.

If they believe, they might ask "what to do", and then maybe you could point them to Al-anon as they have asked. If they deny, you have done what you thought is best for a young person. Their choice.

Then of course, I go to the other side - she is an adult, if her parents choose not to see, then nothing you do or say will change that. There is something unfolding and will do so in its own time. Etc.

Yes, I'm about as clear as mud, and sitting smack in the middle of the fence. With all I've been learning, seems when it comes to the younger folks, I still get muddled.

I am going to keep reading this today, I have a feeling I need to "hear" the responses!
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CatsPajamas View Post
I almost feel like I need to turn in my Al Anon credentials because I wasn't able to make my case. I couldn't get NORM to understand what I know about the disease.

OR is this just another great example of powerlessness? We admitted we were powerless over alcoholism (and that includes trying to get someone else to "get it") and our lives had become unmanageable....
You CANNOT turn in your Al-Anon credentials......I think its safe to say you have earned a life-long, honorary degree.

I do think it is like powerlessness....Norm has to find it on his own, just like everyone else. I don't know all the history with him, but it sounds like he hasn't been "there" quite like you.
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:56 PM
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Moose,

I thought you were on the road !

He moved to the college town with her. He's not attending the university but has taken some classes at the community college. They don't have any friends to speak of, just each other. Like I said, I think it's a good thing for him to be out of this relationship, although I've kept that opinion to myself.

He is NOT moving in with me. He knows better. LOL He and his brother are very close, so it's a logical move for them to live together. This could all blow over, and son and hs AGF might "make up" and continue on in their relationship. Who knows?

At this point my younger son doesn't know I am aware of the situation. So, I am just letting it pass and getting on with my day.

And I'm still very frustrated with NORM. grrrrrr
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:01 PM
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So...the issue you're having is with Norm, because he thinks the alcoholism should be dealth with by her parents?
Or because Norm had a lack on compassion, understanding?

I betcha they already know.

As for Norm, well gosh, I sure can remember back a time not too long ago, where I had the same ideas, as he does.

And trying to explain that whole concept would be hard to do on any given day.

You may TRY to explain where YOU'RE coming from...but gee, unless you're one of "us" can you grasp any of it in just one day, or week?
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:03 PM
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P.S. I'm home now...LOL
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:03 PM
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It's like you have ALL this knowledge and experience, and you know exactly how their lives can potentially unfold, yet you must let life happen. Norm sounds logical also, that she is young and her parents need to know so that someone will try to help her. I don't know, Cats, honestly, but I'm inclined to agree with Moose. Wait. Regain YOUR serenity, your calm, your focus on you. What difference will a week make?
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:23 PM
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I think the term "powerless over" includes all people not just our A's. Hugs, Marle
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:02 PM
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((Cats))

Norm has his ideas and you have yours. You have all of this information that would probably sway Norms ideas if he were open to hear them. At this point and time though, it sounds like he isn't really open to hearing them. I mean really hearing them, and understanding them. Unfortunately, it usually takes a person in a great amount of pain to seek out their true understanding. I would agree to dis-agree but always be open to discussions about the subject. Norms tend to want the simple quick fix, the instant solution. We've been there, we know from stumbling ourselves, that there is no quick fix or easy solution, but we too, had to learn that for ourselves no matter what anyone said.

You have nothing to prove to Norm. You don't need to prove anything to anyone, you know and that is all that really matters. There may come a day when Norm may be open to your ideas, then again, he may never.

The thing that may lead Norm into "seeing" is by your very own example of living the words.

As for your credentials....you try turning them in and you just might have a revolt of hundreds of codies on your hands!

Just my two cents worth.

B
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:03 PM
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I almost feel like I need to turn in my Al Anon credentials because I wasn't able to make my case. I couldn't get NORM to understand what I know about the disease.
When all else fails, or..... in the beginning.. Whichever fits you best.

Seek first to understand, and THEN be understood....

Just think how far you and Norm could get if you both did that.
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:09 PM
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When all else fails, or..... in the beginning.. Whichever fits you best.

Seek first to understand, and THEN be understood....

Just think how far you and Norm could get if you both did that.
Hey Miss Done !? When did YOU get so smart? :ghug3

Gads I love hearing your input. Ya do a mom proud, ya know?
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:12 PM
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Fortune Cookies.... They tell me everything... lol
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:25 PM
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Norm is doing what norms do, they say what they think and think we should do what they say. We know better but until they walk in our shoes they don't understand. Hopefully he never has to do the walk. You are right in saying your son is in a relationship that isn't best for him now, and right in not saying that. If you do he might just stay in it to prove you wrong. Your recovery is shining and you know what you have to do for you. Don't you dare try to turn in your membership to any of the anon groups. You worked to hard to get where you are today and deserve all the wonderful things you have done.
Hugs and love coming to you
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:20 PM
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Norm sounds logical also, that she is young and her parents need to know so that someone will try to help her.
I was 21. I was full blown alcoholic. Oh my parents tried, God knows they tried for years and years and years and years. Nope didn't work. Even their shutting the door in my face and hanging up the phone on me when I was 33 1/2 didn't work. Took me another 2 1/2 years and the last year and a half living on the streets of Hollyweird to finally 'get it.'

I would suspect her parents already know, grades if nothing else would tell them something is seriously wrong.

As for you Cats DON'T YOU DARE even think about turning in your Al Anon credentials. You got the answer:

OR is this just another great example of powerlessness? We admitted we were powerless over alcoholism (and that includes trying to get someone else to "get it") and our lives had become unmanageable....

Yep it sure is!

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:20 PM
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*Ahem* *Hands back Alanon black belt to Cats*

From where I sit, this is between your sons (thank goodness, pheww) and between your son and his ex? gf. Maybe could be between your son's ex?-gf and her parents (depending how involved she wants them or they choose to be) and if they want to make a big hoopla anon-athon they could all join hands and sing Kumbayah....but it ain't about you and Normie. (Said with a huge amount of love in my heart and fear of getting kicked in the shins).

Ya see, my dear friend, you and Normie don't have to play. You can sit this one out.

And maybe, just maybe, this might be a good time for Normie to "observe" and listen to that wise woman called Cats who is coy enough to let him go first and then come in the back door telling HER experience, strength and hope thus opening his eyes to "how it really is".

Or maybe just throw up your hands announcing "I am powerless" and you and Normie split a hot fudge sundae.

Love ya, Cats, I had to think hard on this one and even had the Codie Bus gassed up and ready to go. But you can do it without us...who knew?

Hugs and Lotsa Love *covers shins*
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:27 PM
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Ann,
You are just unbelievably wise. I love the direction of this post. It makes me love detachment even - LOL! Thank you so much for being insightful and knowing how to teach others to restore calm into their lives by giving other people back their problems. It really can be that simple, can't it? Thanks for a little AHA moment for me tonight.

Cats, I love your support and I love this forum. You guys are so smart. And funny, too
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:31 PM
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I have to agree here. I think I had a "build up" of something this morning (maybe PMS?) - all I know is, I've really needed to hear all of you and will continue to monitor this thread! I am learning loads and loads!

Thanks all!
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Old 05-11-2008, 06:56 PM
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((((((((Cats))))))))

Come down off that daggone fence, lady.
There's no need to get yourself twisted up over it.
Trust me. I've been twisted up for years over the fact that
my hubby, a great guy, buuuuutttttttt, also a normie, is like
one of those race horses with the blinders on.
He sees things in one color and one color only. His own.
Which, btw, is puke green.

He doesn't believe in "addiction". It's just a weakness. (man's never
experienced any dysfunction, apparently.)
I have since learn to express my feelings about my son to others.
If I do talk to "oblivious owen" about him, he's learn from past experience,
(my training) just to listen and lend a shoulder. Just don't say a word. lol
I'm with ya, sweetie. No matter how much we learn, read, and try to teach others, if they're willin', there's always gonna be someone who just doesn't "get" it. Donchaknow?
I love ya and we're here for ya.
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Old 05-11-2008, 08:33 PM
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Tough stuff sometimes to "practice these principles in all our affairs" rather than shove the principles down earthlings' throats, lol. I bounce between kicking myself because I start to say something more than once and then know I am trying to control somehow, and feeling almost irresponsible because I don't take up other people's stuff. That's why i know I'll be in program for life.

I almost hope Norm doesn't "get it" because that would mean his life was never crushed by addiction. And I really hope this is a wake up call for that young girl. I imagine she is scared and ashamed...I hope enough to look for a better way. Hugs
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