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Well, this has been such a fun week! As I wrote, difficult and confusing in one way, and at the same time I could see my own growth in at least not getting that emotional knot full of everything, mainly guilt.
My therapy session was interesting last night. My therapist pulled out a big fat book and asked me some questions - as they pertained to my AH. So, she proceeded, a fairly short list about 8 or so. Yes, yes, yes all the way down the line. Turns out these questions are used to "diagnose" or classify Narcisisstic PD - altho hard to diagnose, etc. she has brought this up before.
A friend of mine emailed me a link. I have been reading this afternoon, and I gotta tell you - about 98% of it is like reading about my entire relationship with my AH. It's been enlightening and empowering in a way. There were many things that really hit home, one of them was telling a narcisist something you need or want (appealing to their better nature) will make matters worse with a narcissist. I have experienced this, I think, my entire time with my AH. If I asked for something; emotional need, or I would like that CD for my birthday (I got a bracelet or something else instead) whatever, it was as if he was going to make darn sure I NEVER got what I had asked for - no matter how small or little effort it would take. There are so many others, and many of them are "just what addicts do" also.
Have any of you also had a similar experience in this, or is this common? I think I've seen something around here but not much -
My therapy session was interesting last night. My therapist pulled out a big fat book and asked me some questions - as they pertained to my AH. So, she proceeded, a fairly short list about 8 or so. Yes, yes, yes all the way down the line. Turns out these questions are used to "diagnose" or classify Narcisisstic PD - altho hard to diagnose, etc. she has brought this up before.
A friend of mine emailed me a link. I have been reading this afternoon, and I gotta tell you - about 98% of it is like reading about my entire relationship with my AH. It's been enlightening and empowering in a way. There were many things that really hit home, one of them was telling a narcisist something you need or want (appealing to their better nature) will make matters worse with a narcissist. I have experienced this, I think, my entire time with my AH. If I asked for something; emotional need, or I would like that CD for my birthday (I got a bracelet or something else instead) whatever, it was as if he was going to make darn sure I NEVER got what I had asked for - no matter how small or little effort it would take. There are so many others, and many of them are "just what addicts do" also.
Have any of you also had a similar experience in this, or is this common? I think I've seen something around here but not much -
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I've been on another board with a partner of a narcissistic PD, and talking with her I found out they have some good support groups. You might try googling the term and "support group". I wish you the best.
((hugs))
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I had never heard of that til now. So I looked it up. It does seem like maybe addiction and 'what addicts do' and narcissistic pd are similar in ways. My AH used to tell me (when he was going to meetings and healthy) that self-centeredness was part of the disease of addiction and that he had to work hard to not be self-centered and to try to think of others instead.
One thing that struck me about your post was the part about not ever giving you what you wanted as a gift. My AH always gives me roses, for anniversaries, birthdays, mother's day, whatever. Don't get me wrong, getting flowers is nice, but I would tell him that flowers take a lot of work. I have to cut them and put them in a vase, change the water every couple of days, throw them away, and clean the vase. So I try to mention other things I would like, such as perfume or new clothes. Not once have I gotten anything I have mentioned. Now, i know this isn't a big deal. I know wives who don't even get flowers. But I wonder if he even hears me.
Hope your counseling continues to bring enlightenment, maybe things will make more sense with regard to you AH. Take care.
One thing that struck me about your post was the part about not ever giving you what you wanted as a gift. My AH always gives me roses, for anniversaries, birthdays, mother's day, whatever. Don't get me wrong, getting flowers is nice, but I would tell him that flowers take a lot of work. I have to cut them and put them in a vase, change the water every couple of days, throw them away, and clean the vase. So I try to mention other things I would like, such as perfume or new clothes. Not once have I gotten anything I have mentioned. Now, i know this isn't a big deal. I know wives who don't even get flowers. But I wonder if he even hears me.
Hope your counseling continues to bring enlightenment, maybe things will make more sense with regard to you AH. Take care.
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Originally Posted by codeinewife 
Well, this has been such a fun week! As I wrote, difficult and confusing in one way, and at the same time I could see my own growth in at least not getting that emotional knot full of everything, mainly guilt.
My therapy session was interesting last night. My therapist pulled out a big fat book and asked me some questions - as they pertained to my AH. So, she proceeded, a fairly short list about 8 or so. Yes, yes, yes all the way down the line. Turns out these questions are used to "diagnose" or classify Narcisisstic PD - altho hard to diagnose, etc. she has brought this up before.
A friend of mine emailed me a link. I have been reading this afternoon, and I gotta tell you - about 98% of it is like reading about my entire relationship with my AH. It's been enlightening and empowering in a way. There were many things that really hit home, one of them was telling a narcisist something you need or want (appealing to their better nature) will make matters worse with a narcissist. I have experienced this, I think, my entire time with my AH. If I asked for something; emotional need, or I would like that CD for my birthday (I got a bracelet or something else instead) whatever, it was as if he was going to make darn sure I NEVER got what I had asked for - no matter how small or little effort it would take. There are so many others, and many of them are "just what addicts do" also.
Have any of you also had a similar experience in this, or is this common? I think I've seen something around here but not much -
My therapy session was interesting last night. My therapist pulled out a big fat book and asked me some questions - as they pertained to my AH. So, she proceeded, a fairly short list about 8 or so. Yes, yes, yes all the way down the line. Turns out these questions are used to "diagnose" or classify Narcisisstic PD - altho hard to diagnose, etc. she has brought this up before.
A friend of mine emailed me a link. I have been reading this afternoon, and I gotta tell you - about 98% of it is like reading about my entire relationship with my AH. It's been enlightening and empowering in a way. There were many things that really hit home, one of them was telling a narcisist something you need or want (appealing to their better nature) will make matters worse with a narcissist. I have experienced this, I think, my entire time with my AH. If I asked for something; emotional need, or I would like that CD for my birthday (I got a bracelet or something else instead) whatever, it was as if he was going to make darn sure I NEVER got what I had asked for - no matter how small or little effort it would take. There are so many others, and many of them are "just what addicts do" also.
Have any of you also had a similar experience in this, or is this common? I think I've seen something around here but not much -
"Alcoholism is not secondary to a psychiatric problem. Alcoholism is a primary disease in and of itself"
I'm becoming a believer, having read this book and discovering that all of these behaviors that I thought I could attribute to some underlying mental illness were just 'typical' alcoholic behaviors. Makes me feel a little less crazy myself!
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Over the course of the last two years, through therapy and research, I have come to the conclusion that my exh has borderline personality disorder; I haven't brought it up here before just because it is not well understood. Many of the behaviors are the same in addiction and bpd (and npd from what I have read). Personality disorders are serious mental illnesses and they are very difficult to treat because one of the hallmarks of them is the denial.
I am a member of another forum that is for people who have a loved one with a pd, and I have learned a lot there. The link to the main site is:
http://www.bpdfamily.com/
The main difference I notice there as opposed to here is that there is little or no talk of recovery there. There is no 'program' for those folks; not many of them have much to say about their own issues-the ones that got them hooked by someone with a pd. It is too bad because the 'anon' steps really do apply there just as much as they do here.
When I first discovered bpd, it suddenly made all the pieces of my like make some sense. My exh has always done some really strange things, but I always blamed the drugs. The thing is, who knows whether the bpd drove him to use, or using messed up his mind and caused the bpd....and does it matter? I think not. Regardless of which came first, he is STILL the only one who can do anything to change it and he still refuses to. So, the only thing I can do is take care of me and the kids and let him go....
I am a member of another forum that is for people who have a loved one with a pd, and I have learned a lot there. The link to the main site is:
http://www.bpdfamily.com/
The main difference I notice there as opposed to here is that there is little or no talk of recovery there. There is no 'program' for those folks; not many of them have much to say about their own issues-the ones that got them hooked by someone with a pd. It is too bad because the 'anon' steps really do apply there just as much as they do here.
When I first discovered bpd, it suddenly made all the pieces of my like make some sense. My exh has always done some really strange things, but I always blamed the drugs. The thing is, who knows whether the bpd drove him to use, or using messed up his mind and caused the bpd....and does it matter? I think not. Regardless of which came first, he is STILL the only one who can do anything to change it and he still refuses to. So, the only thing I can do is take care of me and the kids and let him go....
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Thanks Anvilhead! I do feel like I'm growing up a little! I love the Kayak story - think I might just have to use that one too. Pine trees and kayaks - My visuals are getting better and better. Let's just think about folding shirts for a Kayaking pine tree!
Duet, I agree - it is what it is, regardless the source. End result is the same - I think the narcissism factor just added a little of some missing pieces for me more than for him, as it also addressed that this more than likely came from my mother - who had narcisisstic tendencies I see now, but hadn't realized before. So, more than just an AH aha moment for me - more like another piece of my own puzzle. But it also made me curious how many of us have this "extra" - like you with the BPD.
SailorJohn - not sure what I think, some days I go one way, some days the other - think I might be walking this road a bit longer before I lean one way or the other, but I hear what you're saying!
ItsATruth- Been there with the flowers - I said no more. He would come home and "present" the box - I'm in the kitchen cooking, and here is a box of roses - leaves, thorns and all that I am to ooh and aaah over, clean up - getting bloodied by the thorns in the process - while trying to finish getting dinner together. He had a guy that would come in the shop and he would pay the $4 and I was supposed to ooh and aaah over this effort and thoughtfulness. that was one of the things I stopped years ago. What a mess! But, the gift giving - I'm guessing he's never heard you. You might like this one. I don't wear a watch. Never have (since I was 10 or something). Always wore them in the shower or pool and ruined them or whatever and just gave up. So, I'm 41 - I have not worn a watch in my entire time with my AH - guess what I got for my 40th Birthday? (the birthday I asked for some BBC DVD's) - a ROLEX! Can you believe it? Guess where it went the first week or two after I said I wanted a divorce? I have no idea - but I have the box and paperwork!!!! No one I knew could understand why he gave me a watch, let alone a Rolex. Well, NOW we know!
It is too bad that they don't focus on a "recovery" on the boards you mentioned Duet. To find yourself in a situation like we do - only not due to an addiction - and to not have a support group to help you find your strength to create a life which you would like, that's really too bad!
We are sooooo lucky here! Thanks you guys!
Duet, I agree - it is what it is, regardless the source. End result is the same - I think the narcissism factor just added a little of some missing pieces for me more than for him, as it also addressed that this more than likely came from my mother - who had narcisisstic tendencies I see now, but hadn't realized before. So, more than just an AH aha moment for me - more like another piece of my own puzzle. But it also made me curious how many of us have this "extra" - like you with the BPD.
SailorJohn - not sure what I think, some days I go one way, some days the other - think I might be walking this road a bit longer before I lean one way or the other, but I hear what you're saying!
ItsATruth- Been there with the flowers - I said no more. He would come home and "present" the box - I'm in the kitchen cooking, and here is a box of roses - leaves, thorns and all that I am to ooh and aaah over, clean up - getting bloodied by the thorns in the process - while trying to finish getting dinner together. He had a guy that would come in the shop and he would pay the $4 and I was supposed to ooh and aaah over this effort and thoughtfulness. that was one of the things I stopped years ago. What a mess! But, the gift giving - I'm guessing he's never heard you. You might like this one. I don't wear a watch. Never have (since I was 10 or something). Always wore them in the shower or pool and ruined them or whatever and just gave up. So, I'm 41 - I have not worn a watch in my entire time with my AH - guess what I got for my 40th Birthday? (the birthday I asked for some BBC DVD's) - a ROLEX! Can you believe it? Guess where it went the first week or two after I said I wanted a divorce? I have no idea - but I have the box and paperwork!!!! No one I knew could understand why he gave me a watch, let alone a Rolex. Well, NOW we know!
It is too bad that they don't focus on a "recovery" on the boards you mentioned Duet. To find yourself in a situation like we do - only not due to an addiction - and to not have a support group to help you find your strength to create a life which you would like, that's really too bad!
We are sooooo lucky here! Thanks you guys!
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Originally Posted by codeinewife
It is too bad that they don't focus on a "recovery" on the boards you mentioned Duet. To find yourself in a situation like we do - only not due to an addiction - and to not have a support group to help you find your strength to create a life which you would like, that's really too bad!
I do understand where they are coming from though. For me, the realization that my exh had problems much deeper than 'just' being an addict basically made me feel pretty hopeless that he would ever get better. To care about an addict and then suddenly learn that they are seriously mentally ill without the drugs; you lose the hope that if they get sober they will see their problems. Because they ARE sober. Don't know if that makes sense or not....
The hardest part for me is accepting that my kids are likely never going to have a father in any real sense of the word. It's been hard for the older two to accept also, but learning about bpd and the behaviors involved has given their pain a name and they are getting better at accepting it. It's just real hard for them to stop expecting him to act like a dad...
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Originally Posted by duet_4-8
The hardest part for me is accepting that my kids are likely never going to have a father in any real sense of the word. It's been hard for the older two to accept also, but learning about bpd and the behaviors involved has given their pain a name and they are getting better at accepting it. It's just real hard for them to stop expecting him to act like a dad...
Knowledge, and a sane and strong Mom! How lucky your children are!
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Yeah, it is an answer that brings a sort of peace to the situation. I am completely 'no contact' with him and have been for several months now. My oldest son (25) tried very hard to help him but in the end had to go no contact also. My middle son (20) has never been close to him and has little to no contact now. Our youngest (12) is in my sole custody with very limited visitation (a plan that was court-imposed when he showed his illness to the judge in a big way....), even little bit seems to 'get it'. When exh does or says something hurtful, we all just agree it's the 'bpd thing' as they call it and just keep moving forward. What else can you do?
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