Loved Ones In Prison - Part 2
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
Dogged
Hate so much to hear about this for you - there is just no bounds to how this disease affects us.
Like others have said - please remember it is not your fault, you did nothing wrong and please, please take good care of you - emotionally and physically.
HUGS & prayers for you,
Rita
Hate so much to hear about this for you - there is just no bounds to how this disease affects us.
Like others have said - please remember it is not your fault, you did nothing wrong and please, please take good care of you - emotionally and physically.
HUGS & prayers for you,
Rita
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wishin' I was on the Beach!
Posts: 1,415
Japic, you are such an good example to me of "Let Go and Let God". I try, but I still have issues where I want to control things that are out of my control. Gotta keep working on me too! Sending prayers for your daughter.
Hi Sadness, good to hear from you! Glad you hear from your dad. Prayers the program and medication will work for him. How are you doing? Any fun plans this summer now that schools out?
Hello-Kitty, Hope you have a wonderful time vacationing in Ireland. Your post is a good reminder to me that I need to keep the boundaries *I* make. You seem to really enforce the boundaries you make, and I needed the reminder. Boundaries are no good if you don't follow through.
Dogged, Thanks for the reminder about STDs and the need to be careful and the need to be checked. I'm sorry you turned out positive for herpes. As others have said, it's not your fault, but it is something you'll have to live with now. I hope someone will post or pm you that has had this experience and can give you support. If not, post a new thread about it, so you can find encouragement.
Lifechange, good to hear things are going good for you. Keep doing the next right thing. BTW, there's a good post in the Christians forum here from Toad called "My Garden" you may enjoy reading.
Well my update is not happy. I've been doing a lot of reading but not posting because I am struggling with AH using again and I feel so weak. My strength and resolve to not live this way waffles day to day.
Hi Sadness, good to hear from you! Glad you hear from your dad. Prayers the program and medication will work for him. How are you doing? Any fun plans this summer now that schools out?
Hello-Kitty, Hope you have a wonderful time vacationing in Ireland. Your post is a good reminder to me that I need to keep the boundaries *I* make. You seem to really enforce the boundaries you make, and I needed the reminder. Boundaries are no good if you don't follow through.
Dogged, Thanks for the reminder about STDs and the need to be careful and the need to be checked. I'm sorry you turned out positive for herpes. As others have said, it's not your fault, but it is something you'll have to live with now. I hope someone will post or pm you that has had this experience and can give you support. If not, post a new thread about it, so you can find encouragement.
Lifechange, good to hear things are going good for you. Keep doing the next right thing. BTW, there's a good post in the Christians forum here from Toad called "My Garden" you may enjoy reading.
Well my update is not happy. I've been doing a lot of reading but not posting because I am struggling with AH using again and I feel so weak. My strength and resolve to not live this way waffles day to day.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 123
thanks everyone, thier os so much i didnt know about this virus,,its common in men to lay dormant for years(and women) not as likely and they have no idea they have it and pass it on?? for women it can start as having lots of yeast infections, bladder infections,,and thats it for symptoms..(until later when it decides to rear its outbreaks) there is so much i am learnign about this virus its amazing how many people are affected 1 out of 4 women 1-5 men.. and they dont test for it unless asked specifically,which is beyond me? thier are 2 tests..you want the one where they draw blood for sure igg test? i think its called that will tell you which type you have 1 or 2.. man its been a nightmare, but i appreciate the support thank you...
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
We went to J's t-ball game (that's our AD's oldest son) - we haven't seen him since Christmas - He was very excited to see us. As we know most 6 yr olds don't like pictures - but he gladly took a picture with us!!
The game was stopped because of a SW Louisiana Thunderstorm - but we are going back to see another game on Wednesday.
He's other grandfather was at the game too (AD's step-dad) and as typical he is nice to everyone face to face, but as soon as he could he asked J if he wanted to get something to eat and play at McDonalds.
I'm so thankful for recovery - cause today I know that the other grandfather is all about control and insecurity. He feels threatened and must control situations. He needed that reassurance from J that he was still loved. What a sad, hurting man he must be.
For me, I know that those precious little ones have so much love that no one has to be
"#1" - there is enough for all of us. It is not a competition. No one has to be the best.
Live & Let Live - I am grateful that we had time with him, grateful that my AH was sober and sane; grateful that J's Dad encourages us to participate in his activities, that J's has a wonderful step-mom that loves him unconditionally, and grateful that by God's Grace we should be able to see him again on Wednesday.
Ain't God good?
The game was stopped because of a SW Louisiana Thunderstorm - but we are going back to see another game on Wednesday.
He's other grandfather was at the game too (AD's step-dad) and as typical he is nice to everyone face to face, but as soon as he could he asked J if he wanted to get something to eat and play at McDonalds.
I'm so thankful for recovery - cause today I know that the other grandfather is all about control and insecurity. He feels threatened and must control situations. He needed that reassurance from J that he was still loved. What a sad, hurting man he must be.
For me, I know that those precious little ones have so much love that no one has to be
"#1" - there is enough for all of us. It is not a competition. No one has to be the best.
Live & Let Live - I am grateful that we had time with him, grateful that my AH was sober and sane; grateful that J's Dad encourages us to participate in his activities, that J's has a wonderful step-mom that loves him unconditionally, and grateful that by God's Grace we should be able to see him again on Wednesday.
Ain't God good?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 61
They transferred my dad. But they ended up transferring him to the wrong prison. So he is awaiting to be transferred again.
You hear about people escaping prison and you wonder why. Then you hear stories like that and you know why. Prisons should be more organized especially when housing medium-high security level inmates.
Well thats my update for now because I have missed my dad's last two phone calls.
You hear about people escaping prison and you wonder why. Then you hear stories like that and you know why. Prisons should be more organized especially when housing medium-high security level inmates.
Well thats my update for now because I have missed my dad's last two phone calls.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
sadness -
I agree with that about the correctional system.
Our AD was released yesterday - she DID call me - so that was good. But she was not suppose to be released. She went thru drug court and was suppose to be held until a bed was open at a treatment facility.
Her sentence is for inpatient treatment, then outpatient follow-up with counseling, wkly drug test, NA meetings, for 18 months. One mess up and she goes to prison for 5 yrs.
Not sure when a bed will be available - hopefully within a couple of wks. Until then they are suppose to get an ankle bracelet for her today or tomorrow and she is wearing a patch (i guess the patch monitors was substances she has in her system??)
so she sounded good and maybe I'll get to see her this weekend.
One day at a time - right?
I agree with that about the correctional system.
Our AD was released yesterday - she DID call me - so that was good. But she was not suppose to be released. She went thru drug court and was suppose to be held until a bed was open at a treatment facility.
Her sentence is for inpatient treatment, then outpatient follow-up with counseling, wkly drug test, NA meetings, for 18 months. One mess up and she goes to prison for 5 yrs.
Not sure when a bed will be available - hopefully within a couple of wks. Until then they are suppose to get an ankle bracelet for her today or tomorrow and she is wearing a patch (i guess the patch monitors was substances she has in her system??)
so she sounded good and maybe I'll get to see her this weekend.
One day at a time - right?
dakotaboyd
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: queensland
Posts: 51
Hey guys, Thought I would add a line or two to say hi.
Dont really quite know what to say right now as things are still a little disfunctional within my home, so I will just write.
We are all still alive. Pip is doing a lot better than I am. She opted to go back onto a drug sub programme so she has settled well, where as I am still a little unsettled and feel a constant itch that wont go away with out the obvious. I have shortened the gaps between misshaps and spend the majority of my time recovering from my single uses. Never enough to get a full habbit but enough to be left feeling misserable all the same....skateing the line...
It is a constant strain on my relationship with Pip and the kids and I know all too well what is at the end if persued. Its like I can see the cliff that I have fallen of many times before, standing in front of me and know the consequence of the drop but feel compelled to stand on the edge and ballance there. I do not at all feel in anyway helpless, I know what needs to be done, Im just not quite sure I wont to do it.
It is a war in my head to go one way or the other and neither direction really impresses me, so I sit on the fence waiting to be shifted.
It seems a little harder this time as I feel very conscious of my decission making and I do not feel forced into this through outward pressure. This is choice.
I am aware how selfish this may seem to people reading this, it seems selfish to me when I take a detached veiw, but it is the way it is.......for me anyway.
Perhaps a detached veiw is what is needed,,hence my need to write.....
So for me it has been Romancing an old enemy.
Hope you are all settled better than I am at the moment and look forward to catching up.
dakotaboyd
Dont really quite know what to say right now as things are still a little disfunctional within my home, so I will just write.
We are all still alive. Pip is doing a lot better than I am. She opted to go back onto a drug sub programme so she has settled well, where as I am still a little unsettled and feel a constant itch that wont go away with out the obvious. I have shortened the gaps between misshaps and spend the majority of my time recovering from my single uses. Never enough to get a full habbit but enough to be left feeling misserable all the same....skateing the line...
It is a constant strain on my relationship with Pip and the kids and I know all too well what is at the end if persued. Its like I can see the cliff that I have fallen of many times before, standing in front of me and know the consequence of the drop but feel compelled to stand on the edge and ballance there. I do not at all feel in anyway helpless, I know what needs to be done, Im just not quite sure I wont to do it.
It is a war in my head to go one way or the other and neither direction really impresses me, so I sit on the fence waiting to be shifted.
It seems a little harder this time as I feel very conscious of my decission making and I do not feel forced into this through outward pressure. This is choice.
I am aware how selfish this may seem to people reading this, it seems selfish to me when I take a detached veiw, but it is the way it is.......for me anyway.
Perhaps a detached veiw is what is needed,,hence my need to write.....
So for me it has been Romancing an old enemy.
Hope you are all settled better than I am at the moment and look forward to catching up.
dakotaboyd
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
((dakotaboyd))
praying for you, that you will find the path you need to walk away from the cliff, to regain the serenity and sense of calm to know - you are worthy of better.
You deserve the life that is Happy, Joyous and Free.
It is my experience that "old enemy" has never given anyone I know that "Happy, Joyous and Free" life in their inner self.
For me, I have found the ability to be Happy, Joyous and Free - despite the pain in my life and in my heart - I send out good thoughts and prayers that you may find that path for you.
Wishing you Serenity & Joy,
Rita
praying for you, that you will find the path you need to walk away from the cliff, to regain the serenity and sense of calm to know - you are worthy of better.
You deserve the life that is Happy, Joyous and Free.
It is my experience that "old enemy" has never given anyone I know that "Happy, Joyous and Free" life in their inner self.
For me, I have found the ability to be Happy, Joyous and Free - despite the pain in my life and in my heart - I send out good thoughts and prayers that you may find that path for you.
Wishing you Serenity & Joy,
Rita
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wishin' I was on the Beach!
Posts: 1,415
Hi Dakota, Glad you stopped in and let us know how you are doing. You know, getting your feelings out, and thinking them through, can be the start of motivation and determination to do things differently. I can understand how tough this is for you.
I've read around the other forums here, especially substance abuse, and can see how hard it is. But there are those who overcome. And you'll be an overcomer when you're ready. The only one who can make that choice is you. Keep posting when you can. We miss you here. My AH is currently 2 weeks clean. He is getting ready to change jobs in a couple weeks if everything works out. Its with a good company with good pay and good insurance benefits, etc. They drug test to start and recently they brought in drug dogs to search the place. They have a zero tolerance policy on drugs, but AH is excited about the job, its all been his idea. I've had to "Let go" and let him make his own choices/decisions. I'm hoping he has his motivation/ determination back, and this works out. I hope you're having a good day!
Hope everyone has a great 4th of JULY here in America! We've been swimming this morning. Going to a cookout at a lake for good food, fishing, and fireworks later.
I've read around the other forums here, especially substance abuse, and can see how hard it is. But there are those who overcome. And you'll be an overcomer when you're ready. The only one who can make that choice is you. Keep posting when you can. We miss you here. My AH is currently 2 weeks clean. He is getting ready to change jobs in a couple weeks if everything works out. Its with a good company with good pay and good insurance benefits, etc. They drug test to start and recently they brought in drug dogs to search the place. They have a zero tolerance policy on drugs, but AH is excited about the job, its all been his idea. I've had to "Let go" and let him make his own choices/decisions. I'm hoping he has his motivation/ determination back, and this works out. I hope you're having a good day!
Hope everyone has a great 4th of JULY here in America! We've been swimming this morning. Going to a cookout at a lake for good food, fishing, and fireworks later.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 61
Happy 4th of July everyone. My dad is staying at this prison instead of transferring. He gets out September 11. I think its like 67 days maybe. The bad side is I start school in August. So, I wont be able to go see him. I really hate that because when he gets out he nevers calls and no one ever knows how he is doing. Maybe I can skip school with permission from my grandparents and go.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wishin' I was on the Beach!
Posts: 1,415
Hi Sadness. If you want to see you dad when he gets out, keep the communication going as best you can until them. Write him when you can, keep praying, and try to "Let Go and Let God". This hopefully will be your dads time to do things differently. (If not, you know
it will no way be your fault, he'll just be giving in to the disease again.) Hope you're having a great summer.
(((HUGS))) and ((PRAYERS))) to you!
it will no way be your fault, he'll just be giving in to the disease again.) Hope you're having a great summer.
(((HUGS))) and ((PRAYERS))) to you!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 61
Hi. My grandma said i probably cant skip school and go. I havent seen him since January 6, 2007. On January 13. 2007 I went to his work to see him. on January 14, 2007 he got arrested. Its been a year and seven months and five days since i last seen him. Monday will make it 1 year and 7 months in jail. I want to see my dad. And to hear my dad talking about his life in prison makes me sick. They may have messed up but they deserve better. They get real meat once a month and its chicken nuggets. They get tacos, burgers and everything with soy meat. The way they are treated is ridicolius. Excuse my spelling errors.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wishin' I was on the Beach!
Posts: 1,415
Hi Sadness, I know its hard hearing your dad say how bad it is. I used to tell my AH, well its not supposed to be fun. You're not supposed to want to come back there. Hopefully, how bad it is will make them want to start making better choices in their lives so they don't go back. Maybe ya'll can have a nice meal planned the day he gets out and invite him over? My AH enjoyed "real" food when he first got out. Actually, he still does. He's the better cook, and cooks supper most of the time. He cooks, I clean. I like it that way. LOL
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
((sadness)) hate you are hurting & missing your dad - I know that the jails aren't in the best of circumstances. Prayers for you & your dad.
As I have shared our AD was released in June. She is still going thru the 18 month drug court program. Because of the youngest child (only 11 months old) and the time she has already been away from him, the court decided if she took to the program, she would not have to go to inpatient treatment. I wasn't so sure about this - but then I reminded myself I'm NOT in control and I have NO idea what is best. Gave it my HP and prayed for HIS BEST for everyone.
Well, I have Great news about her - she went to her court appt yesterday and because of her doing well in the program she is no longer under house arrest - she doesn't have to wear the ankle bracelet anymore. (Which by the way cost $300 a month) So now she is looking for a job and a lot more excited about interviewing without the ankle bracelet on. Knows she still has to disclose the information, but I think she just feels a little more self-esteem and self-respect. Prayerfully she will keep focused on the next right thing and I will stay supportive in a Healthy Recovery way!!
So many times I think I only share the negative - so I wanted to share a positive story about her accomplishments. So very grateful to spend time with her and our grandchildren.
Prayer for each of you & your loved ones.
Rita
As I have shared our AD was released in June. She is still going thru the 18 month drug court program. Because of the youngest child (only 11 months old) and the time she has already been away from him, the court decided if she took to the program, she would not have to go to inpatient treatment. I wasn't so sure about this - but then I reminded myself I'm NOT in control and I have NO idea what is best. Gave it my HP and prayed for HIS BEST for everyone.
Well, I have Great news about her - she went to her court appt yesterday and because of her doing well in the program she is no longer under house arrest - she doesn't have to wear the ankle bracelet anymore. (Which by the way cost $300 a month) So now she is looking for a job and a lot more excited about interviewing without the ankle bracelet on. Knows she still has to disclose the information, but I think she just feels a little more self-esteem and self-respect. Prayerfully she will keep focused on the next right thing and I will stay supportive in a Healthy Recovery way!!
So many times I think I only share the negative - so I wanted to share a positive story about her accomplishments. So very grateful to spend time with her and our grandchildren.
Prayer for each of you & your loved ones.
Rita
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Coast/the lovers state
Posts: 71
Hello all. Just wanted to drop by and see how things are going. I have been doing fine and am still clean from all drugs and alcohol. I have been going to meetings and this past weekend even went to a ‘recovery campout’. Really cool with over 300 people there and meetings and functions all weekend. I had a great time for sure.
Dakota….whats up man? Nice to see you back on here and sharing all that’s going on. You said “know all too well what is at the end if persued. Its like I can see the cliff that I have fallen of many times before, standing in front of me and know the consequence of the drop but feel compelled to stand on the edge and ballance there. I do not at all feel in anyway helpless, I know what needs to be done, Im just not quite sure I wont to do it.
It is a war in my head to go one way or the other and neither direction really impresses me, so I sit on the fence waiting to be shifted.”
…I have played these mind games before and shared about it and my counselor told me “when you know whats up there is no need to over think it….” He called it mental masturbation…… just going in circles and stuff. I don’t know, but I know what has helped me a lot is just writing things down and telling others and when I think about sitting on the fence I tell or show those signs and someone quickly pulls me back….and I allow them, because I know the help that you get for yourself when you help others and I don’t want to deprive someone of that help by me not letting them help me.
Well I hope that everyone’s summer is going nicely. And I will be popping in here as I can. My prayers are with you all.
Dakota….whats up man? Nice to see you back on here and sharing all that’s going on. You said “know all too well what is at the end if persued. Its like I can see the cliff that I have fallen of many times before, standing in front of me and know the consequence of the drop but feel compelled to stand on the edge and ballance there. I do not at all feel in anyway helpless, I know what needs to be done, Im just not quite sure I wont to do it.
It is a war in my head to go one way or the other and neither direction really impresses me, so I sit on the fence waiting to be shifted.”
…I have played these mind games before and shared about it and my counselor told me “when you know whats up there is no need to over think it….” He called it mental masturbation…… just going in circles and stuff. I don’t know, but I know what has helped me a lot is just writing things down and telling others and when I think about sitting on the fence I tell or show those signs and someone quickly pulls me back….and I allow them, because I know the help that you get for yourself when you help others and I don’t want to deprive someone of that help by me not letting them help me.
Well I hope that everyone’s summer is going nicely. And I will be popping in here as I can. My prayers are with you all.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 61
Ray we could do that but the only problem is when he gets out I will be in school amd my grandma isnt letting me miss two days of school so I can all the was to Missouri to meet him. My dad is a really good cook though. I know prison isnt suppose to be a nice like a house but they could at least give them real meat. He gets out September 11, 2008. Thats about two months. By the time he gets out he would have been in jail one year, nine months, if that isnt exact then it is close. And by the time he gets out I will have gone one year, nine months, and eight days with out seeing him. Sad, but i have gone over four years with out seeing or talking to him, so it isnt as bad as it seems. Well I am going to bed it is two in the morning. Good night/ good morning.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wishin' I was on the Beach!
Posts: 1,415
Japic, Thanks for sharing the positive about your daughter. We need to hear the hope of recovery. I have a few favorite recovering posters on this forum with many years clean... I look for their posts when I have the extra time.
Lifechange, good to hear from you, and that you are doing well. We appreciate your sharing with us, as like Japics story, we all need to hear the hope of recovery. And as you know, sharing your story, a way of giving back, will make you stronger also. May God continue to bless you! Keep us updated from time to time!
Sadness, I'm sorry, I forgot your dad doesn't live near you. Sending prayers that things work out for you to see your dad at some point. It may not be when he gets out, but hopefully soon after. Hope you're having a good summer!
Babs, Dakota, Hello-Kitty, CMC, dogged, hope you all are doing ok! Anyone want to check in with an update or anyone new want to share your story?
Lifechange, good to hear from you, and that you are doing well. We appreciate your sharing with us, as like Japics story, we all need to hear the hope of recovery. And as you know, sharing your story, a way of giving back, will make you stronger also. May God continue to bless you! Keep us updated from time to time!
Sadness, I'm sorry, I forgot your dad doesn't live near you. Sending prayers that things work out for you to see your dad at some point. It may not be when he gets out, but hopefully soon after. Hope you're having a good summer!
Babs, Dakota, Hello-Kitty, CMC, dogged, hope you all are doing ok! Anyone want to check in with an update or anyone new want to share your story?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wishin' I was on the Beach!
Posts: 1,415
Well, the hope of recovery for my AH seems to be going by the wayside. He just got off the intensive 6-month probation (condition of early parole) the 1st wk of July. Things have steadily gotten worse since then. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Same story almost as before he went to prison, each week it gets worse. I hate this life we're leading. I feel like a real idiot for having hope and letting him come back here after prison. I bought all the lines... not easily, but I still fell for them... I believed the promises. Now, I just have to start making plans... I am going to start saving a little $, start checking ads for places to live, etc... It may take a little while to end this, but I'm gonna do it this time. Please pray for me that I'll have the strength to carry this through.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Hi Ray.
Keep moving forward. One day at a time. When I am faced with what seems like an insurmountable problem, I find it helpful to focus on one task at a time and follow it through to completion. You know the old saying, the easiest way to move a mountain is one shovel at a time. You'll make it. Just keep moving.
I haven't heard from my son's father in a couple months. He kept calling me and sending letters asking for money and for me to bring our son for a visit. Finally I sent him a note saying no that I wasn't comfortable doing that and I wasn't going to (I drew a tough boundary - yay me.) I told him that I didn't want my son going to prison to see someone who may not be around when he gets out. I told him that he was a bad example for Andrew, and I didn't want Andrew growing up and following in his footsteps. I told him that he could see his son when he got out - if he stayed clean long enough. I don't know if you remember, but the last time he got out he went straight to the dope dealer, and we didn't hear from him for two weeks. It was a lot of drama.
Anyway, I haven't heard from him since I sent the letter. I feel a little bad, but I'm pretty confident I did the right thing. It feels uncomfortable - so it must be right.
Hang in there. Sorry about your husband. I know you had big hopes & dreams for him. Time to focus on your own life now. Just because he is choosing to flush his life down the toilet doesn't mean that you and your children have to jump in with him and go down the drain. :-)
Keep moving forward. One day at a time. When I am faced with what seems like an insurmountable problem, I find it helpful to focus on one task at a time and follow it through to completion. You know the old saying, the easiest way to move a mountain is one shovel at a time. You'll make it. Just keep moving.
I haven't heard from my son's father in a couple months. He kept calling me and sending letters asking for money and for me to bring our son for a visit. Finally I sent him a note saying no that I wasn't comfortable doing that and I wasn't going to (I drew a tough boundary - yay me.) I told him that I didn't want my son going to prison to see someone who may not be around when he gets out. I told him that he was a bad example for Andrew, and I didn't want Andrew growing up and following in his footsteps. I told him that he could see his son when he got out - if he stayed clean long enough. I don't know if you remember, but the last time he got out he went straight to the dope dealer, and we didn't hear from him for two weeks. It was a lot of drama.
Anyway, I haven't heard from him since I sent the letter. I feel a little bad, but I'm pretty confident I did the right thing. It feels uncomfortable - so it must be right.
Hang in there. Sorry about your husband. I know you had big hopes & dreams for him. Time to focus on your own life now. Just because he is choosing to flush his life down the toilet doesn't mean that you and your children have to jump in with him and go down the drain. :-)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 233
Hey Ray, I have no words that I can think of at the moment. I know you've been through it so many times and so have I. I just wanted to pop in and send you some good thoughts and prayers. I know your recovery is strong....but it still hurts like hell. I'm sorry. Hugs, Michelle
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