How Do I Know?

Old 01-07-2008, 07:35 PM
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How Do I Know?

I am not an addict. I have never done a drug in my life. My father took me to dinner tonight to tell me he thinks my wife may have a drug problem. She shows many of the signs I found on the internet:

1) Her finances are in shambles. She has at least 7 years of tax liens from the IRS and feels absolutely no obligation to pay them.

2) We have a separate property agreement because of this, so our finances are separate. My wife hasn't helped me with the bills in months. I know she made $9k on a deal this year (only because the deal involved my sister) and 60 days later I was making her car payment because she was out of money. Questions how this money could evaporate so quickly with me covering all the bills were stonewalled.

3) I work 2 jobs to keep us afloat. My wife feels absolutely no obligation to help me with the bills, even when I work 22 hour days 3 days a month.

4) Getting her to leave the house takes an act of Congress.

5) She has trouble sleeping and pops ambien like chicklets.

6) She hates my friends, and merely tolerates my family.

7) She is extremely defensive.

I could go on and on...

We have been in marriage counseling 2 of the 3 years we've been married. I have asked the counselor point blank if she thinks my wife has an addiction. She couldn't answer.

The only thing that makes me question whether or not I have a drug addiction in my house is.....I've never found any drugs.

I have turned my house upside down, but then again, having never done drugs, I'm not sure exactly where this type of thing would be hidden.

How do I know for sure? Is my wife an addict or merely a financial dullard? How can I confront her without any "hard" evidence. Do I just throw here out based on my "gut feeling"?

Any advice is appreciated. I'm at my wits end.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:57 PM
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Although I really can't say if your wife is a drug addict it does seem safe to say there is a problem in your marriage and it needs to be addressed....


keep learning about addiction so you will recognize warning signs, do what is necessary to protect yourself financially and seek professional help if possible....

take care of yourself...
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:03 PM
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Lab,
I'm sorry you are having to go through this. It is such a helpless feeling to suspect, be told, but still have no concrete info on such a serious issue. You've come to a good place for support and information.
A couple of thoughts came to my mind in reading your post, first, you said you haven't found any meds...but you stated that she pops ambien like chicklets....ambien, to my understanding is an addictive drug (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). The other thing that popped into my mind reading your post is that regardless whether you find that there is an actual 'drug' problem or not...there 'some' problem. Things are not okay when you are working 2 jobs, paying her end of things, keeping your finances seperate....maybe don't stress yourself in having to 'diagnose' the right cause. That doesn't have to be your job, you just need to identify the things that you see, feel, experience, that are not within the realm of healthy boundaries. You are not superhuman...take one step at a time, deal with the things you know and be open to learn more as you go along.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:06 PM
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first welcome to SR
stick around there are alot of people here who can offer advice and support

what stood out to me in your post was.........she pops ambien like chicklets

my thought is that you may not be looking at street drug addiction but rather prescription drug addiction
does she have different doctors whos refilling the ambien etc

also you said........how do I confront her.............well the thing is addicts while active will lie to protect their addiction so asking her will probably do no good.............

I am not sure what advice to offer, except read the stickys and stay around reading all you can about addiction and others will be around soon for more help!
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:25 PM
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Popping ambien like chicklets, and you are asking "How do I know?".

This is a joke right?

The other thing is, if you are married, the separate property agreement means NOTHING to the IRS. They will take everything of yours and hers. Don 't trust me, get a professional opinion on this. This is too big to leave to chance.

Good luck and keep posting.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:38 PM
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I've consulted 3 tax attorneys concerning her IRS issues and how they affect me. In addition, I'm a CPA. I'm very aware of the risks.

Maybe "popping ambien like chicklets" is extreme. She takes ambien nightly, and it's impossible for her sleep without it. That catches me as being extreme.

Then again (and the thing that makes me doubt myself), having never taken anything stronger than an asprin in my life, I'm not sure what a "normal" amount of drugs are (prescription or otherwise). It all seems extreme to me.

She doesn't have multiple doctors that I know of. I would see them on our health insurance statements, unless she's visiting multiple doctors and not using the insurance.

Thanks for all the replies, ya'll!
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:38 PM
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I had no clue that my husband was an addict until we were married for over a year. I thought he was just crazy or something. He hid it from me very well because I am like you - never touched the stuff and I just trusted him.
He made a good chunk of money and yet we were just getting by. I figured out he was withdrawing large sums of cash and was always going "crazy" around my paydays.
I'm short so he hides his stuff up high. So now if I need to snoop I just get on a chair and look on top of everything. She may be taking some stuff in front of you, her "prescription" and then popping more behind your back. Look where you wouldn't normally look - like a drawer filled with things you never use, a closet you hardly ever open, etc.
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:20 AM
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Addicts get very good at hiding things. I knew my boyfriend was addicted to painkillers, he got clean and I really had no idea for awhile that he had relapsed (and severely). I mean, looking back on things, the signs were there, but I think sometimes we get pretty good at lying to ourselves without even realizing it.

She could very well be going to doctors, using old addresses, not using the insurance, etc. My boyfriend definitely did that. I am just finding out now the extremes of everything. It is amazing the web they create. How their whole lives are caught up in using, how to use, how to get something to use, etc etc. It's like a full time job. Major money disappearing is a huge red flag. There are not too many things that money can disappear on without having something to show for it.

Being defensive, always wanting to stay at home on the couch and zone on TV...definitely addict behavior in my experience.

Have you ever asked her point blank? The sad thing is, our gut instinct is usually right. I have realized that if I have some obsessive need to search the house, or look on his computer, etc that I really don't need to do any of that. That there probably is something wrong.

Take care of yourself!
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:27 AM
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Labrador...

I honestly don't know if you wife has an addiction problem but your story sounds an awful lot like mine.

My ex husband (exah) developed a heroin addiction about 4 years into our marriage...It took me almost a year to figure out that the problem was drugs. I thought he was depressed. I'm not a drug user either and I NEVER thought the problem was drugs. Never !!

The biggest tell-tale sign that I had at the time was money. I also paid all the bills...ALL of them ! ALthough he worked full time, he always claimed that he owed someone money for some ficticious thing or another or that his boss 'shorted' him on his check or that his cash flew out the window as he was driving (an actual excuse that he used on me)...or some other imaginative explanation for why he didn't have any money to help pay the bills. Boy, I heard some doozies !! We began to have terrible fights about money.

My advice...stop paying bills that belong to her. If your lifestyle depends upon her working and contributing to the bills and she isn't doing it, consider adjusting your life so that you don't have to rely upon her for help. In my case, I gave up our marital home and found something cheaper that I could handle on my own. Its the only way that I managed to find some peace in my life.

My exah started using heroin only after we had a child together. When kids are involved, the issue becomes much more difficult.

Whether your wife is using drugs or not, its clear that you have some problems in your relationship. Have you ever considered a separation so that you can assess the situation from a safe distance? Just an idea.

WHatever you decide to do (or not do), I'm glad you've discovered this forum. ITs been a true blessing for me. I hope it is for you too. Best of luck...
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:35 AM
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i do not know if your wife is an addict or not. time will tell because it does not get any better.she will not be able to hide it. she has a problem, drugs or money,something. why not bring this up with the therapist? welcome to s.r. & keep coming back. we r here for you.prayers,
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:41 AM
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The prescription drug use (even if she goes to several different doctors) and is addicted to prescription drugs, would NOT account for where all the money is going. Going thru large amounts of $ could indicate abuse of drugs such as crack, meth, or heroin (I'd suspect crack first). How do you know for sure? You get a multi-drug urine test panel (I know you can get them over the internet and I think you can even buy them at walmart) and you catch her by surprise and ask her to pee in a cup right then. Can't force her to, but if she won't do it, what would that tell you? If she does, you'll be able to tell right away if she's positive for cocaine/crack, or amphetamines (crystal meth). heroin would show up as positive for opiates - but I'm not sure if ambien would trigger any positives, though.
Stop wondering and urine test her. The not knowing, the searching thru her stuff, the guessing - all of that is crazy-making. Once you know what is going on, you can take action (or not) but at least you are dealing with facts and not supposition. Then, if it turns out to be drugs, come back here and we'll help you out with sorting thru everything again.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:46 AM
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I know next to nothing about this - but compulsive gambling could be another explanation for where all the money is going. just a thought.
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:55 AM
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Dear Lab

Let me quote you if I may:



The only thing that makes me question whether or not I have a drug addiction in my house is.....I've never found any drugs.
How do I know for sure?
this is your evidence:


5) She has trouble sleeping and pops ambien like chicklets.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:45 AM
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Well - you are getting lots of advice... but you did ask!

One thing that I guess I was wondering is - what would "proof" do for you? The reason I ask, is my daughter used meth (yep - smoked it, shot it, snorted it) for five years while living in our home, and I never knew.

When I started to suspect, I tried a drug test, and first she balked LIKE CRAZY (whats wrong with you? how can you ask me to do such a thing? of course I don't use? Who said I was using meth? They hate me, of course they are trying to get me in trouble...) then, she gave me the urine sample - and it "disapppeared" overnight. So I bought another test, and this time I SLEPT with the urine sample.

And it came up negative. That is because the stimulants (like meth, or cocaine) are out of the system in 2 or 3 days - far faster than I realized.

WHen I finally, FINALLY caught her - she had every reason in the world why the test was wrong. SHe was taking "diet pills", she was taking "vitamins" she was taking something a friend gave her from the health food store... the test was just invalid. :O)

Hard to believe I would fall for such lame excuses, but I really WANTED to believe she was clean! So I did as long as I could - until I just could not ignore the behavior anymore.

There are folks on here who posted about taking PICTURES of a spouse passed out with drug paraphernalia on their chest, with residue on their face... and the spouse claimed that the sober one was CRAZY and trying to FRAME him!!!

Denial is huge...huge ... .huge!!! On both parts.

So even if you find drugs - then what? I guess I am trying to warn you that it isn't as easy as saying, "here's proof, so now quit!".


What I finally did was put boundaries around the behavior... because I had such trouble "catching" my kid while using - but the behavior was the thing I really hated anyway.


You say she is going through money like a hot knife through butter - then perhaps you can put a boundary around that. After all, perhaps she isn't addicted to drugs, but is addicted to gambling... online or otherwise.

By not providing her any more money - she has to deal with the consequences of her own actions - you don't.

THere are lots of great posts at the top of this forum - they are permanent posts referred to as "sticky" posts. I urge you to read as many as you can - they contain a TON of information.

Addiction - whether to drugs or food or gambling or sex or whatever - is an extremely complex addiction. THere is a lot to know, and there are no simple solutions (else we wouldn't have this board, I think).

Your father has noticed something that makes him suspicious - that alone tells me that you are dealing with "something"..... and the more information you have, the more prepared you will be.


I wish you the best.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:28 AM
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Welcome (((lab)))
That fear of the unknown is a killer...sometimes more difficult than knowing just what you're dealing with.

I have to ask though...does it really matter?
The behavior you describe is unacceptable reagrdless of the reason. As a matter of fact, learning she's an addict might actually explain the behavior.
Or, she may just feel it's OK to walk all over you.
Is either really acceptable?
Just a thought
(((Hugs)))
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:23 AM
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welcome, labrador. your situation sounds very painful, and your father's concern is telling.

addiction is definitely a possibility, but a mental disorder is very possible as well. a close friend of mine was married to a woman for 15 years who had a similar pattern of behavior you describe, and she is not an addict. she has borderline personality disorder. a book titled "walking on eggshells" describes this mental illness and maybe if you take a look at that you can see whether any of it resonates. there is also information online if you google it.

it does not sound like a mere case of a lazy wife.

as you search for information--and do keep searching--you will get clearer and then you will be able to go to the right source for help. if you suspect addiction, see an addiction counselor, not a general therapist. if you suspect a personality disorder, contact your local chapter of NAMI and ask for help. and, of course, both illnesses could be at play, and you will need both kinds of professional guidance.

if the problem is addiction, the road is long and bumpy, but certainly some addicts do recover and marriages are saved. if the problem is a personality disorder, i would not hope for much change.

it is difficult for husbands to stand firm against their wives. the encoding to protect is very natural and goes deep. if the problem is addiction, you may be able to find men-only al-anon groups in your area which will address this.

one thing is pretty certain: your financial stability is at risk and your credit could be ruined, so i am very glad you have much knowledge to protect yourself. but if you are unable to see the real risks--because of your emotional confusion--you may not yet be protecting yourself adequately. should you decide to walk away from your marriage some day, you may step into a financial nightmare. both addicts and metally ill persons can be a horror when it comes to separating property. it is very good you are talking to outside people and getting sound support.

all the best to you. you are doing the best you can. keep going.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:59 AM
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Everybody is posting excellent advice. I know that I was at first in denial of the magnitude of the problem with AH's pain pills. Now that he is in recovery (2 months), he tells me stories about how really bad it was. He was so good at covering it up and lying that it would have been impossible for me to know about all of it. I am very new at this, but I think the others are right in that doing tests, searching for stuff, etc., doesn't really work. The important thing is figuring out what your boundaries are and holding firm to those. I finally told AH that I refused to ride in the car with him when he was slurring his speech and swerving--he could keep denying a drug problem if he wanted, but I at least had to keep myself safe. I couldn't "prove" he had them, but I could at least refuse to put up with certain behavior. One thing is that you should be aware that just because your spouse gets something from a doctor, it does not mean that they should be taking it! My AH's addiction started with pain pills for a broken leg. Plus, as others said, there are all kinds of addictions--gambling, porn, etc. Ambien is not a good long-term solution to insomnia, although doctors are happy to give it out. I've had lifetime insomnia, and there are some safer options. I take a sedating antidepressant, and it is not addicting. My suggestion would be to keep hanging out on this forum, there is some great advice here. I find that I am in a very difficult recovery--trying to recovery from codependency. Not easy!
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:30 PM
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Labrador0620,
Well, obviously, there's a problem somewhere along the line.

I have been married for 38 years.
We frequently discuss our finances and where the money is going, communication IS part of a marriage.

What happens when you ask to see her checkbook, or saving withdrawls? It sure would give you a big clue.

Regardless of what the problem is, this doesn't found like a marriage built on honesty and trust and partnership.

(Just my thoughts....not meant to offend.)

Hugs to you...
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:58 PM
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Hey everyone, thank you tremendously for the input! It really helps!

Moose - You hit the nail on the head - our marriage is not based on honesty and trust and partnership. That is the one thing I have fought for in counseling, and the one thing she keeps pushing away from.

The answer to your question is I am not allowed into her finances, even though I'm the one that has to clean up the wreckage of her actions. I'm a CPA with a Masters in Finance. It would take me 5 minutes of going through her bank statements to figure out what is going on; she knows this, hence the stonewalling.

Our marriage counselor is really good, given what we've presented her to work with. It appears she has to work very carefully to keep my wife in the counseling room.

The last session our marriage counselor was very delicately trying to broach the topic of our finances (she is aware of the hours I work, that my wife makes $60k - $110k per year, and contributes virtually nothing). My wife felt attacked, and refused to attend any more sessions. Obviously this makes me feel she is hiding something (drugs?), but it's not like I can make her tell me what it is.

The mere suggestion she may not be managing her finances for the benefit of this marriage leads her to attack me; I'm spending too much money (95% of what I make goes to our monthly bills, taxes, and the church); I should stop titheing, etc.

We have nothing to show for the money she has that disappears (i.e. - nice furniture, clothing, etc). There is nothing in my house I see that would eat that kind of money. Hence, another reason that makes me think it is drugs.

We had a blow up over Christmas which resulted in me spending the holidays alone (we were supposed to leave town to visit her family's house - she "uninvited" me after the argument.)

When she got back four days later I calmly suggested we were in dire need to go back to the marriage counselor. She told me she'd "think about it". At that point, we were either going back to the counselor, or I was going to a divorce attorney. I did my best to keep the conversation calm; knowing if I demanded it there was zero chance she would go.

Two days later she agreed.

I booked an appointment with the therapist yesterday and told my wife. You could have cut the tension with a knife, but she said she would go.

The appointment is Thursday. I hope she shows up.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Labrador0620 View Post
The answer to your question is I am not allowed into her finances, even though I'm the one that has to clean up the wreckage of her actions. I'm a CPA with a Masters in Finance. It would take me 5 minutes of going through her bank statements to figure out what is going on; she knows this, hence the stonewalling.
Lab, for a long time I thought I was the one who HAD to clean up the wreckage. Then I got into recovery (Al Anon) and learned my "cleaning up of the wreckage" was what they call "enabling". I thought I was helping, but what I was really doing was helping my daughter stay in her addiction (or, as in your case, your wife's problem, whatever it is.)

The last session our marriage counselor was very delicately trying to broach the topic of our finances (she is aware of the hours I work, that my wife makes $60k - $110k per year, and contributes virtually nothing).
Money like that doesn't just disappear without something being bought, unless she's gambling it away.

The mere suggestion she may not be managing her finances for the benefit of this marriage leads her to attack me; I'm spending too much money (95% of what I make goes to our monthly bills, taxes, and the church); I should stop titheing, etc.
At least you can show where your money is going. I'd keep up the tithing cause I know who blesses me with that money to start with.

I do hope she'll show up for the counseling session. But don't count on the counselor to help with the "does she have a drug problem" question. My AD had her counselor so snowed it wasn't funny. I think there should be a law, a strict law, that demands that all counselors and family therapists have extensive training or internships in a rehab center. There are so many of them out there that don't have a clue about addiction and are being who-dooed by addicts/alcoholics day in and day out.

And please, no attacks by therapists or family counselors. The same goes for doctors. There are just so many "earth people", as we call them in our meetings, that just don't have a clue about addiction.

Prayers for you and your wife, Lab.

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