Why is it called a disease???
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Trisha
I would tend to guess that part of yor frustration may come from inside of yourself.
What did I do wrong that had her make such choices and how can I fix it?
The answer... You may have done nothing wrong. Been a perfect parent and one day a friend she was with said... try this, it feel good.
Her choice in that moment showed her that addictions are real. Addictions are like a riptide. You can swim with all your might as you try to get to the shore but you get no where. Till a time comes that we listen to others that say...swim sideways or we will remain stuck in the riptide.
You didn't cause it
You can't fix it.
You can't change it.
She needs to be the one who opens her ears and listens to those who know how to swim out of such problems. You can't do it for her.
Ever eat a pistachio nut...just one? In the moment, a choice to stop is not in the mindset. Addictions are like that only stronger. Addictions are like a maze filled with traps. As many times as we try, we find dead ends till someone comes along...when we are ready to let them... take us by the hand and show us the way out.
A dis-ease or not... the answers don't change. As for the choice to quit...we need reach a point that it hurts more to continue then it does to quit. Addictions are real and they are a catch 22. Untill she reaches the point that she can see no other choice but stop (hurts more to continue), she won't try to deal with the pain that comes with stopping. Such a point is called...finding our bottom.
I would tend to guess that part of yor frustration may come from inside of yourself.
What did I do wrong that had her make such choices and how can I fix it?
The answer... You may have done nothing wrong. Been a perfect parent and one day a friend she was with said... try this, it feel good.
Her choice in that moment showed her that addictions are real. Addictions are like a riptide. You can swim with all your might as you try to get to the shore but you get no where. Till a time comes that we listen to others that say...swim sideways or we will remain stuck in the riptide.
You didn't cause it
You can't fix it.
You can't change it.
She needs to be the one who opens her ears and listens to those who know how to swim out of such problems. You can't do it for her.
Ever eat a pistachio nut...just one? In the moment, a choice to stop is not in the mindset. Addictions are like that only stronger. Addictions are like a maze filled with traps. As many times as we try, we find dead ends till someone comes along...when we are ready to let them... take us by the hand and show us the way out.
A dis-ease or not... the answers don't change. As for the choice to quit...we need reach a point that it hurts more to continue then it does to quit. Addictions are real and they are a catch 22. Untill she reaches the point that she can see no other choice but stop (hurts more to continue), she won't try to deal with the pain that comes with stopping. Such a point is called...finding our bottom.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by BigSis 
a day came when the man said I have to find a drunk
because I need him as much as he needs me
(NOW
you've got it)
I think I know as I read it yet again today.
I love you all and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it.
Thank you to all of you who touch my life and help me stay sober.
'Round and 'Round I Go....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 478
Hi Trish....
This topic has been one of the great debates....is addiction a disease?
I've even questioned it myself when I first came here. I was actually very angry that they would even term it a disease and put it in the same category as cancer, diabetes, etc...... But after a while I realized it didn't matter. Calling it a disease opens doors for addicts to seek help when they need it or want it. What really mattered to me was my understanding of the complexities of addiction. This understanding helped me to understand (please don't mistake that for "tolerate") my now exhusbands habits, behaviors and drug abuse. Would calling it a disease or an inmoral act or self destruction or anything else you want to call it help you through the night when your addict is out on a run? It still is what it is. Gain knowledge so that you can help yourself through the hardtimes.
This topic has been one of the great debates....is addiction a disease?
I've even questioned it myself when I first came here. I was actually very angry that they would even term it a disease and put it in the same category as cancer, diabetes, etc...... But after a while I realized it didn't matter. Calling it a disease opens doors for addicts to seek help when they need it or want it. What really mattered to me was my understanding of the complexities of addiction. This understanding helped me to understand (please don't mistake that for "tolerate") my now exhusbands habits, behaviors and drug abuse. Would calling it a disease or an inmoral act or self destruction or anything else you want to call it help you through the night when your addict is out on a run? It still is what it is. Gain knowledge so that you can help yourself through the hardtimes.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: dallas texas
Posts: 1,629
I've asked myself and anyone who would listen the same question, time after time, trying to understand my AD also. I am finally getting to the point to where I know I won't ever understand. In my meeting the moderator said "My grace is good enough". I believe that. Some days it is the only thing I believe. I feel so much of what you feel Trish, have said the same things, had the same hurt..except for the children. I pray I am never in that spot because I don't know if or what I would do.
I now know from several in my group that they hate the way they are, the things they do and sometimes this is what keeps them using. They hate theirself way more than we do at the moment. Meeting some good people over the last months that have been clean have helped me to understand, a little bit. They will also be the first to tell you they are liars, manipulators, etc. but not a day went by that they didn't hurt and feel so much shame.
I have no answers, I have no advise. Only hang on to your sanity through God, meetings, and SR. Somdays my sanity is gone, then it reappears. I truly believe I am going through this deep dark valley for a reason, as is my Kasey. She should be dead after all she has done and what has happened to her. But, she isn't as far as I know. God has his hand on her and I have to believe someday, someway she will be back.
Disease, disorder, mental illness--there all really the same. only the coding on the medical bill is different as addicition isn't recognized as a mental illness so it doesn't get as many benefits. The blue book talks about it being an allergy, I went to a conference today where they talked about isolating the protein that shows up only in active addicition alpha FosB. What is it? A living hell for all involved.
Please know I care and share your path. You are not alone.
prayers, thoughts,
susan
I now know from several in my group that they hate the way they are, the things they do and sometimes this is what keeps them using. They hate theirself way more than we do at the moment. Meeting some good people over the last months that have been clean have helped me to understand, a little bit. They will also be the first to tell you they are liars, manipulators, etc. but not a day went by that they didn't hurt and feel so much shame.
I have no answers, I have no advise. Only hang on to your sanity through God, meetings, and SR. Somdays my sanity is gone, then it reappears. I truly believe I am going through this deep dark valley for a reason, as is my Kasey. She should be dead after all she has done and what has happened to her. But, she isn't as far as I know. God has his hand on her and I have to believe someday, someway she will be back.
Disease, disorder, mental illness--there all really the same. only the coding on the medical bill is different as addicition isn't recognized as a mental illness so it doesn't get as many benefits. The blue book talks about it being an allergy, I went to a conference today where they talked about isolating the protein that shows up only in active addicition alpha FosB. What is it? A living hell for all involved.
Please know I care and share your path. You are not alone.
prayers, thoughts,
susan
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 158
Trisha -
You are not the first to ask these questions here, and you certainly won't be the last. I have posted the same questions myself, so I know the underlying confusion and frustration associated with this topic. Everything we learn about addiction seems contradicting. We are desperate to understand this "thing" that has destroyed those we love and often makes us feel like we have been cast straight into hell. I am grateful to all who offer their views and experiences as a way of helping others understand something so baffling as addiction. As for anyone who wishes to insult or belittle those of us who still may not "get it", I hope it might be considered that compassion goes both ways.
You are not the first to ask these questions here, and you certainly won't be the last. I have posted the same questions myself, so I know the underlying confusion and frustration associated with this topic. Everything we learn about addiction seems contradicting. We are desperate to understand this "thing" that has destroyed those we love and often makes us feel like we have been cast straight into hell. I am grateful to all who offer their views and experiences as a way of helping others understand something so baffling as addiction. As for anyone who wishes to insult or belittle those of us who still may not "get it", I hope it might be considered that compassion goes both ways.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 471
Addiction certainly has a genetic predisposition, as does family culture. I, too, have a problem with the disease label when it's used as an excuse. While addiction is a disease, too many addicts use it as a way to verbally disown responsibility ~ as in, "I can't help it, I have a disease." As we all know, the first step in recovery is to admit we are powerless over alcohol/drugs ~ The first step, and a definite admission a disease, not a chioice, is present. But by the fourth step, addicts are asked to take a fearless moral inventory. This means, as you all know, that the addict needs to take responsibility, or "own", his or her actions.
I think a lot of us who have been caught up in another's disease want the responsibility part acknowledged. Not for the disease, but for the actions caused by the disease. If you've ever been close to someone who is terminally ill, they often say and do things they never would dream of if they were healthy. Those people, of course, are never in a position to say, "Gee, I was really mean to you when I was sick, sorry!" We never hold that against the person, because we understand it was their illness talking.
Because addiction is so devastating for entire families, and can go on for decades, we can't forgive the words and actions so quickly. But it is still a disease talking.
I think a lot of us who have been caught up in another's disease want the responsibility part acknowledged. Not for the disease, but for the actions caused by the disease. If you've ever been close to someone who is terminally ill, they often say and do things they never would dream of if they were healthy. Those people, of course, are never in a position to say, "Gee, I was really mean to you when I was sick, sorry!" We never hold that against the person, because we understand it was their illness talking.
Because addiction is so devastating for entire families, and can go on for decades, we can't forgive the words and actions so quickly. But it is still a disease talking.
Get Caught Reading
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Not in the boonies, thank God
Posts: 1,410
Everyone,
I've just finished reading the thread and boy am I ever tired. lol
I just wanna add that I haven't had a cigarette in 9 weeks. It seems more like 9 years. I miss it. I think about it much too often, but know that I can't smoke one.
Not one. Not even 1. I would be right back to that pack a day addiction.
I have to work every day to stay clean of cigarettes.
My mother, my oldest brother, my older brother, my uncle. All of these people died from alcohol/drug related illnesses.
I don't drink.
I know I can't.
So I don't.
It would be way too easy to fall into that.
Being smoke free is hard enough.
I feel for anyone who has to be at war everyday to stay clean from drugs.
I pray for them all.
And BigSis.....
I am your number 1 fan. Thank you so much for sharing your truth, wisdom, experience, and mostly, your light.
You rock!
Love to all and goodnight,
Linda
I've just finished reading the thread and boy am I ever tired. lol
I just wanna add that I haven't had a cigarette in 9 weeks. It seems more like 9 years. I miss it. I think about it much too often, but know that I can't smoke one.
Not one. Not even 1. I would be right back to that pack a day addiction.
I have to work every day to stay clean of cigarettes.
My mother, my oldest brother, my older brother, my uncle. All of these people died from alcohol/drug related illnesses.
I don't drink.
I know I can't.
So I don't.
It would be way too easy to fall into that.
Being smoke free is hard enough.
I feel for anyone who has to be at war everyday to stay clean from drugs.
I pray for them all.
And BigSis.....
I am your number 1 fan. Thank you so much for sharing your truth, wisdom, experience, and mostly, your light.
You rock!
Love to all and goodnight,
Linda
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: pa
Posts: 260
Trisha,
I have gone round and round with this question also. After 5 times in rehab,losing a job and jail, I thought this is a disease yes but now it is a voluntary one. After reading on here and educating myself on addiction and codependency I have seen all the people are the same, only the names change. The horrors we all deal with are nothing short of insanity, and that is a illness of the mind body and soul. The only thing that I have trouble understanding is how come some people "get it" after only one stint at rehab while others take much longer. That I guess shows some of us are sicker than others..
I have gone round and round with this question also. After 5 times in rehab,losing a job and jail, I thought this is a disease yes but now it is a voluntary one. After reading on here and educating myself on addiction and codependency I have seen all the people are the same, only the names change. The horrors we all deal with are nothing short of insanity, and that is a illness of the mind body and soul. The only thing that I have trouble understanding is how come some people "get it" after only one stint at rehab while others take much longer. That I guess shows some of us are sicker than others..
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 204
I look at it this way.. I don't just want to know for ME or to Validate ME, I want to know and continue learning for my kids. My girls are now teenagers and what their fathers addiction did to them will probably last a lifetime, though he is clean and sober NOW even he understands the need for continued education and the learning does not end just because the addict gets clean. Now if you dont' have kids then I would say if you don't need to or want to know, move on. This has always been a big debate among addicts/addicts and non-addicts/addicts. Some will say, I don't really care if it's an illness or not, I just know I want to get better while others will take the time to become educated and desire to learn what it is.
I can honestly say that if I had not gone through what I did when my xhb was using I don't think I would have come to a conclusion about my own drinking problem. I read and was willing to learn everything there was about addiction, and thankfully that led me to seek help for my own drinking /benzo addiction. I didn't have to go to the bottom to want to get clean, but I could have if I didn't learn about addiction.
The biggest realization for me was learning Addiction is JUST a SYMPTOM of the disease, it is NOT the disease. That's easily proven by watching an addicts behavior when they are not using, my xhb was an addict long before he started smoking crack, he was a workaholic and anything he took on he went overboard, he had to learn that for himself in order to CONTINUE on his path of recovery. He (like me) has to watch everything, drugs/alcohol are not the only addictors. An addict will overdo most anything.. video games, sports, gambling, internet.. the list is endless.
To those that dont' believe there is a disease, most likely you are looking at the addicts "behaviors", the way they treated you, the loss you felt, all the pain their behaviors caused you.. and you lose objectivity (VERY NORMAL)
Try and remember that they didn't want to be addicts, their behaviors were again just more symptoms of the disease. Does that mean they are excusable or that we put up with them.. absolutely not, but those are our choices, how we react, behave in response to their behaviors is the only thing within our control.
I too was an addict long long before I started drinking and popping benzo's. Whenever i did anything I did it to an extreme (work, video games, eating.. I could go on and on)
If you break it down like that it makes it much easier to understand.
I NEEDED to learn these things, with knowledge comes power to change.
I can honestly say that if I had not gone through what I did when my xhb was using I don't think I would have come to a conclusion about my own drinking problem. I read and was willing to learn everything there was about addiction, and thankfully that led me to seek help for my own drinking /benzo addiction. I didn't have to go to the bottom to want to get clean, but I could have if I didn't learn about addiction.
The biggest realization for me was learning Addiction is JUST a SYMPTOM of the disease, it is NOT the disease. That's easily proven by watching an addicts behavior when they are not using, my xhb was an addict long before he started smoking crack, he was a workaholic and anything he took on he went overboard, he had to learn that for himself in order to CONTINUE on his path of recovery. He (like me) has to watch everything, drugs/alcohol are not the only addictors. An addict will overdo most anything.. video games, sports, gambling, internet.. the list is endless.
To those that dont' believe there is a disease, most likely you are looking at the addicts "behaviors", the way they treated you, the loss you felt, all the pain their behaviors caused you.. and you lose objectivity (VERY NORMAL)
Try and remember that they didn't want to be addicts, their behaviors were again just more symptoms of the disease. Does that mean they are excusable or that we put up with them.. absolutely not, but those are our choices, how we react, behave in response to their behaviors is the only thing within our control.
I too was an addict long long before I started drinking and popping benzo's. Whenever i did anything I did it to an extreme (work, video games, eating.. I could go on and on)
If you break it down like that it makes it much easier to understand.
I NEEDED to learn these things, with knowledge comes power to change.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 204
I have gone round and round with this question also. After 5 times in rehab,losing a job and jail, I thought this is a disease yes but now it is a voluntary one.
Could I have said this 2 years ago, probably not. I divorced him and took care of myself and my two girls, I did not and was not going to put up with the behaviors whether I understood them or not.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 138
For me addiction is most definately a disease. I would sometimes cry when I had scored and was about to use, just because I so really did not want to use again. But I had to. Any addict will tell you stories of using against our will. Do you really think sticking a needle in an eyeball is a choice. Or giving sexual favours to some creep for a bit more of whatever is a choice!
Its not a moral question. Until you feel that complete and utter loss of control over the substance you will probably not understand. And once we accepot we have the dis ease, we learn we can only arrest it, nerver cure it. And our experience teaches us its a fatal disease.
And if you are a mother/brother/lover of an addict, is this question really all that relevant?
For me what is relevant is that my addiction was my journey in this life, to take me back to who I truly am. I survived by the grace of God. I have no regrets, and wherever I can/could make amends for those I hurt. But I needed to develop the disease of addiction in order to leanr an bit of humility. I needed to develop an addiction, to discover a loving power greater than me. For that I am truly grateful.
Its not a moral question. Until you feel that complete and utter loss of control over the substance you will probably not understand. And once we accepot we have the dis ease, we learn we can only arrest it, nerver cure it. And our experience teaches us its a fatal disease.
And if you are a mother/brother/lover of an addict, is this question really all that relevant?
For me what is relevant is that my addiction was my journey in this life, to take me back to who I truly am. I survived by the grace of God. I have no regrets, and wherever I can/could make amends for those I hurt. But I needed to develop the disease of addiction in order to leanr an bit of humility. I needed to develop an addiction, to discover a loving power greater than me. For that I am truly grateful.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 204
speaking from both sides of the fence I think it is relevant to some.
Acceptance and Understanding for some have to be joined.
As I said before I didn't want to just know and learn about this for myself but for my kids, their kids and their kids.
Getting to the RIGHT Causation model is imperative to finding MORE available treatments some day. It is all relevant.
Acceptance and Understanding for some have to be joined.
As I said before I didn't want to just know and learn about this for myself but for my kids, their kids and their kids.
Getting to the RIGHT Causation model is imperative to finding MORE available treatments some day. It is all relevant.
Living in the light
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sweet Home Serenity
Posts: 706
In darker days, alcoholism/ addiction used to be considered moral issues and resulted from people not being moral. Unfortunately there still is a stigma attached to what are now called diseases. Many people choose to drink or use. A small percentage will become alcoholics/addicts and that is not by choice.
For any one not convinced about the disease concept, I suggest you read Under the Influence by Dr. James R. Milam and Katherine Ketcham. It helped me set aside
any doubt I had.
The AMA and the National Council on alcoholism consider it a landmark book.
This book explains how physiological factors work together to create an abnormal,
addictive reaction to alcohol ( drugs). It suggests changes that can be made in our social programs, our research and in the medical profession so that alcoholism/ drug addiction can finally be recognized for what they are...diseases. They are not caused by bad choices or a any lack of morals.
For any one not convinced about the disease concept, I suggest you read Under the Influence by Dr. James R. Milam and Katherine Ketcham. It helped me set aside
any doubt I had.
The AMA and the National Council on alcoholism consider it a landmark book.
This book explains how physiological factors work together to create an abnormal,
addictive reaction to alcohol ( drugs). It suggests changes that can be made in our social programs, our research and in the medical profession so that alcoholism/ drug addiction can finally be recognized for what they are...diseases. They are not caused by bad choices or a any lack of morals.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Falling Waters, WV
Posts: 150
I guess that is what I am looking for...someone to say it isn't my fault that my daughter is a addict. I know that I am not at fault..just not convenienced that I am not at fault. <tossing hands up in the air> I just don't understand!! I guess you all are right...it doesn't matter what you call it...it is what it is...and..it is killing me.
I will take the advise of others, I will read the books, go to meetings ...etc, but I need to get past the blaming myself for this before any of this will do any good. I have now stopped contact with most of my family because the only thing they have to say is negative...things like, go get her and bring her back home, to oh well...its her life. Well...it isn't just her life, it is my life...it is her kids life!! Grrrrrrrrr..i get so da*n mad...i am angry all the flipping time, i can't do this!!
Thank you all and again, I didn't mean to bring up a sore subject, and maybe this was just my way of trying to understand...something that is sooo difficult to understand...who knows...I just know it hurts like hell!
I will take the advise of others, I will read the books, go to meetings ...etc, but I need to get past the blaming myself for this before any of this will do any good. I have now stopped contact with most of my family because the only thing they have to say is negative...things like, go get her and bring her back home, to oh well...its her life. Well...it isn't just her life, it is my life...it is her kids life!! Grrrrrrrrr..i get so da*n mad...i am angry all the flipping time, i can't do this!!
Thank you all and again, I didn't mean to bring up a sore subject, and maybe this was just my way of trying to understand...something that is sooo difficult to understand...who knows...I just know it hurts like hell!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OH
Posts: 57
I look at it this way.
You might be genetically predisposed to say lung cancer. You can "prevent" the lung cancer disease by changing your behavior (i.e not smoking). So getting lung cancer is not that different from addiction (it's a combination of genetics and behavior choices).
I do believe some people are genetically predisposed to addiction, however, they can prevent it my behavior choices.
You might be genetically predisposed to say lung cancer. You can "prevent" the lung cancer disease by changing your behavior (i.e not smoking). So getting lung cancer is not that different from addiction (it's a combination of genetics and behavior choices).
I do believe some people are genetically predisposed to addiction, however, they can prevent it my behavior choices.
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
Originally Posted by TrishaV
I guess that is what I am looking for...someone to say it isn't my fault that my daughter is a addict. I know that I am not at fault..just not convenienced that I am not at fault. <tossing hands up in the air> I just don't understand!! I guess you all are right...it doesn't matter what you call it...it is what it is...and..it is killing me.
Whether or not it 'is' a disease or not, it is not 'Your Fault'.
If you were the worst parent in the world you could not make
your child become a drug addict. If you are not sure
of that fact, read a Child Called It, by
Dave Pelzer, and ask yourself why he is not a drug addict.
Taking blame, looking for blame, placing blame, is just
stalling the solution imo.
No one is to blame, it is what it is.
"YOU" are the only one you need validation from, once you realize
that, it is not going to matter what your family, or anyone else says.
Because once you truly know, you will always know.
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