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Old 07-28-2007, 09:35 AM
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driving kids

I've asked this question before....but now I need advice at a different level.
I currently have court support that my AH does not drive my children. These are temp papers that we cooperatively wrote and had a judge sign. Now, it looks like AH might challenge this and I fear a courts judgment on 'when' it is okay. When I asked before, 'when is it okay' I got a lot of answers that I'll know in my gut when it is okay, all though I completely agree... I don't think the judge will go for that one. Do any of you have legal jargon, legal standards that you are happy with on this issue?
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Old 07-28-2007, 10:29 AM
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My only suggestion is for him to submit to a drug test before allowing him to drive them......this still does not mean that he could not use after he has the kids in tow......I think your gut is the best indicator, whether the courts agree or not.....

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Old 07-28-2007, 12:59 PM
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Thanks, The problem with drug testing is that he has a pain pump so he has a steady level of drug in his system at all times, and has prescribed orals to go along with it. A drug test would show drugs ALL the time. There is so much fight to give chronic pain sufferers rights and not take their license away, that I'm not 100% they would take his right to drive the kids away.
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Old 07-28-2007, 01:16 PM
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My original court order had said that he needed to be supervised while driving with our son. I of course had a say in who the supervisor was.
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Old 07-28-2007, 02:33 PM
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I am very uncomfortable with him driving with the kids...the current plan is a temporary order that he agreed to but now he is going to go get a lawyer to fight the driving issue. The current temporary plan is more 'freely stated' because I wrote it and he agreed in one of his cooperative moments. It says he will not drive them until we mutually agree that it is safe. That wording allowed me to use my gut as a guage, now that lawyers are involved, I'm sure the wording will need to be more objective rather than subjective.
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Old 07-28-2007, 02:34 PM
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Nevergive up...did yours have a time limit?
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Old 07-28-2007, 05:08 PM
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No, but we had set up several court dates in order to continuously adjust the order until we found one that we could both agree upon. Each time, new orders were issued.
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Old 07-28-2007, 05:22 PM
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Nevergiveup - I'd like to hear more about it. What was he trying to get, what points were you able to focus on so that he could not just drive them??? My fear is that they will say something like "after treatment" but that scares me because we all know treatment isn't necessarily equal to safe. I don't really know 'what' it is that I'm wanting to set it at other than, my gut will know.
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Old 07-28-2007, 08:51 PM
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There had been an incident where he was "supposed" to have supervised visitation (this was before we went to court... I instituted it). He was taking our son to his step-aunt's house for Thanksgiving. So, in my mind that was supervised. Except, I failed to see that the drive wasn't supervised. Well, he brought our son back with a bruise on his face and hysterical crying, saying that daddy hit him. He later admitted to doing it. Also, his family claimed that he never made it to the Thanksgiving dinner. That was just a part of an affidavit that I submitted to the court about everything that he had done. And it was immediately noted in the court order that he would be supervised at all times, including the ride. And that he had to come to the house with his person who was supervising (his sister or brother) and the rules had to be stated.... that he was not to EVER be left alone with our son. They had to sign something also, saying that they understood the rules and would follow through with them, and if at any point xabf was found unsupervised, they would be charged with child abuse and going against a court order.

By the time we went to court, he was sober. But, we moved through the court system very slowly because I was really unsure of leaving him with our son unsupervised. So, the whole process took place over a year. He had to submit to random drug testing. Had to be seen by a parent counselor (sp?). Was reported to Child Protection Services. And a whole bunch of other things. I also had it written in the court order that he is not allowed to use drugs and/or alcohol or be under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol in the presence of our child AND that if he ever relapses, he gives up all legal rights to custody/visitation.

He now sees him every other weekend from Saturday to Sunday (was Friday to Sunday, but he never showed up on Fridays, so we changed it to Saturday) and that holidays are at MY discretion. He was offered one week in the summers, but refused it. And, was offered one day time visit on the off weeks, but refused that also.

Also, I had it written into the court order that he has to give me 3 months notice if he's not going to be able to make a visit. If he doesn't give 3 months, he's liable to pay for a babysitter in the event that I have to work. And, I can deny him to change a visit (for example, to another weekend) if I wasn't notified 3 months in advanced.

I can't think of anything else that was in there, but if you have a specific question, I'm sure I can answer it!
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Old 07-28-2007, 08:54 PM
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BTW, and this is off topic, but HIS lawyer was a friend of my friend, and was pretty willing to give into anything that I wanted.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:10 PM
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Wow, I am so sorry that you son had to experience that. I am very proud of you for being so persistant to get a plan that protects your son so much.

My sistuation is that my husband has chronic pain. He has struggled with his meds for at least 15 years. He has good spurts and bad spurts but has never ever gone to rehab. He did detox once. He now has a pain pump but still take orals. His doc prescribes them. He always looks 'normal' when he goes in so the doc has no idea what he is like other times. He now lives with his family. When ever he goes down they excuse it as migrains or his poor hurt back.

He attempted suicide almost 2 years ago and went through a very low, low time. He was willing to sign the temp orders at that time to not drive them. He is now on a good spurt BUT has no 'real' healing. He says he wants to challenge the order and be able to drive them. His new doc is experiencing this good spurt so I'm worried that they will say he is doing better.

I am not sure "WHAT" I'm waiting for to be a sign that he is okay to trust having the kids in the car. I'd hate to just say treatment because that is no guarentee. Like I said, he is going through a fairly good time right now so I'm nervous that the court will 'think' he is better and capable. My fear is when the cycle drops again - not only just in case the kids are with him during that time but also so they don't have to have the yo yo of now he can and now he can't.
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:31 PM
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My lawyer went with the angle that he was a drug addict for such a long time that there wasn't a comparable amount of sober time to be considered out of danger. The key phrase he brought up, over and over again, was.... just because he's sober today, gives no guarantee for tomorrow or the next day, or even 2 minutes from now. The court agreed with him. Xabf had been using since he was 13 years old.... heroine, cocaine, meth, etc. but mostly heroine. We used any and all evidence I had accumulated over the years. I had police reports, medical reports, bank statements, dates for everything, etc. In the long run, the court also felt that his limited time of sobriety didn't hold a candle to the level of addiction he had over such a long amount of time. Also, the fact that he had relapsed so many times in the past just helped us to gain control.

The first thing I did was ask for EVERYTHING to be supervised. For him to be involved in parent training classes, a drug program through the courts, a limited amount of exposure, etc. So, he first went to a parenting program that supervised the visits for one hour per week. Then he went into supervised by his brother and sister for 4 hours per week.

It took a long time for me to have even the slightest bit of trust for him with our son. I still don't completely trust him. And, I still have issues with alot of the things he does. But, I'm so detached from the situation that I really have no knowledge as to what his personal life is like. I choose to stay out of those things. My lawyer really put it in perspective for me. Alot about not being able to control every aspect of everything..... hmmmmm..... wonder if he ever went to al-anon!?!? LOL!
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:38 PM
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Today a police officer saw him getting ready to drive when he was completely 'not okay' to drive.

That takes a huge load off my shoulders.
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:55 PM
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Just make sure you get evidence that it happened!
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:57 AM
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I plan to. He gave him the 'walking a straight line and such' test and told him if he got into his car to drive, he'd arrest him.

I plan to go in and try to get a copy of the report today. Not sure if I can, but if not, I'll see if my lawyer can obtain something.
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