amends...and a long shot
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: reality
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amends...and a long shot
so yesterday I sit down and call up three friends I have alienated because of the relationship I have been having with an addict. Only one was home. His first statement "If you are talking to me I guess that means you aren't talking to him anymore.." and then later he said "You know, really I should be angry at you for just stopping contact because he didn't want you to." and I agreed, but you know, this is a person who doesn't judge. we chatted, and I felt so much better afterwards, and you know, when we hung up he says "I'll call you tomorrow" and I thought, wow, for the first time in AGES I was getting off the phone not only feeling better because of the conversation but with a promise to check in on me by someone who really cares, is concerned, and who I know will do what he said. (this person is a great, great friend but a lousy boyfriend so don't even consider that possibility for me).
When I told him about the money the abf owes me he suggested I go straight to his parents and ask them to pay it back. After all they have the money to do it and the abf has always said that they would if he couldn't but I figured the reason they have yet to do that is because they don't want to do it as long as we are together.
so today I go through my credit card statements, my phone bills, and my check book, make a total, and write to the abf that I want him to arrange for the money to be paid back. But of course we all know how reticent an addict is to pay anyone but his dealer back, and I figure he won't bother, and will just get pissed. So my next move is to type up a list with the exact figures, give them photocopies of the proof (evidence of cash advances, atm withdrawls, and the check he cancelled the one time he did pay me back for a tiny part of it, as well as the phone bills, I will make it very business like (As my mother always says, nothing to get emotional about, just practical) and I will present it to his parents and see what happens. I figure two things, I no longer care if they like me or not since I am no longer trying to have a relationship with their wayward son, and secondly, it is worth a try -- worst that can happen? it pisses them off and they don't pay his debt, and hey, that is exactly where I am at anyway, so I might as well take the chance and see if they do pay it. long shot, but the potential pay off is worth it.
His mom once told me that she hates to see him ******* up people's lives (and mine in particular) so maybe she will put her money where her mouth is and help to put mine back on track.
other than that -- feeling good about being on my own...and putting the trauma of a relationship with an addict behind me. lets hope it sticks (certainly going to his parents to get them to pay me back will put the kabosh on a reunion)
When I told him about the money the abf owes me he suggested I go straight to his parents and ask them to pay it back. After all they have the money to do it and the abf has always said that they would if he couldn't but I figured the reason they have yet to do that is because they don't want to do it as long as we are together.
so today I go through my credit card statements, my phone bills, and my check book, make a total, and write to the abf that I want him to arrange for the money to be paid back. But of course we all know how reticent an addict is to pay anyone but his dealer back, and I figure he won't bother, and will just get pissed. So my next move is to type up a list with the exact figures, give them photocopies of the proof (evidence of cash advances, atm withdrawls, and the check he cancelled the one time he did pay me back for a tiny part of it, as well as the phone bills, I will make it very business like (As my mother always says, nothing to get emotional about, just practical) and I will present it to his parents and see what happens. I figure two things, I no longer care if they like me or not since I am no longer trying to have a relationship with their wayward son, and secondly, it is worth a try -- worst that can happen? it pisses them off and they don't pay his debt, and hey, that is exactly where I am at anyway, so I might as well take the chance and see if they do pay it. long shot, but the potential pay off is worth it.
His mom once told me that she hates to see him ******* up people's lives (and mine in particular) so maybe she will put her money where her mouth is and help to put mine back on track.
other than that -- feeling good about being on my own...and putting the trauma of a relationship with an addict behind me. lets hope it sticks (certainly going to his parents to get them to pay me back will put the kabosh on a reunion)
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
I understand that he's put you in a financial bind, and that he "should" feel the need to pay his debts fairly.
But - please understand this is coming from a Moms view - I can't say I agree with presenting 'his" debts to the parents, unless "they" had agreed prior to backing him.
This is not their responsibility, it is his. Bailing him out, even if it would help you who have been taken advantage of, would only open the door to more of his irresponsible behavior.
Think of it this way...if I came on here with the question "should I pay it?" there would be a flood of responses saying "no way, no how!"
This...according to the official anti-codie/enabler handbook chapter 8, pragraph 7.4
I'm glad things are coming together for you
(((Hugs)))
Cece
But - please understand this is coming from a Moms view - I can't say I agree with presenting 'his" debts to the parents, unless "they" had agreed prior to backing him.
This is not their responsibility, it is his. Bailing him out, even if it would help you who have been taken advantage of, would only open the door to more of his irresponsible behavior.
Think of it this way...if I came on here with the question "should I pay it?" there would be a flood of responses saying "no way, no how!"
This...according to the official anti-codie/enabler handbook chapter 8, pragraph 7.4
I'm glad things are coming together for you
(((Hugs)))
Cece
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
My daughter's ex-boyfriend helped her spend a school loan for $5000 which I was co-signed on. He was 21 at the time. I have since paid it because I want my credit to be safe. I have thought about taking him to court but never once considered asking his parents to pay for his mistakes. I know my mom has paid for credit cards that my sister (not an addict, shopaholic) has abused that belonged to an ex-husband of hers. Why my mom does it, I don't understand because it never stopped my sister from finding another person to use. Asking his parents to pay only puts the burden on them and if they are good people, it will probably make them feel guilt that they don't own. Present the evidence to them in person and don't demand that they make payment. If they want to do it for you, then so be it. Hugs, Marle
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Oneeye,
This is such a brilliant and clear-headed solution. I'm so proud that you're taking this step. I don't think it can hurt. As cece pointed out, they probably aren't under any obligation, but hey you'll be no worse off than you were before, if they just choose to ignore the request. Don't attach any expectations to it, and don't threaten (doesn't sound like you are) but I have a good feeling that at least some of it will be repaid, if you're businesslike and kind about it, and if you point out what you would like to do with the money (improve your life in some way perhaps).
Way to go!!!!!!!!!!!
GL
This is such a brilliant and clear-headed solution. I'm so proud that you're taking this step. I don't think it can hurt. As cece pointed out, they probably aren't under any obligation, but hey you'll be no worse off than you were before, if they just choose to ignore the request. Don't attach any expectations to it, and don't threaten (doesn't sound like you are) but I have a good feeling that at least some of it will be repaid, if you're businesslike and kind about it, and if you point out what you would like to do with the money (improve your life in some way perhaps).
Way to go!!!!!!!!!!!
GL
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SC
Posts: 1,027
They aren't under any obligation to pay anything unless THEY previously agreed to it with YOU.
Best bet is to take him to civil court and sue him. If he has the money, good for him, if he doesn't, then they put a judgement on him and when/if he decides to get clean or wants to buy something, he won't be able to do anything until the judgement is paid off. (kinda like the state files tax liens).
Check into your state laws to see what they are....its normally really cheap to file in a civil court.
Best bet is to take him to civil court and sue him. If he has the money, good for him, if he doesn't, then they put a judgement on him and when/if he decides to get clean or wants to buy something, he won't be able to do anything until the judgement is paid off. (kinda like the state files tax liens).
Check into your state laws to see what they are....its normally really cheap to file in a civil court.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
This mom wouldn't pay you back... unless YOU borrowed it from ME.
Not that I don't have sympathy for ya, I do... LOTS. I just am not clear from your post who borrowed what from whom.
(((oneye)))
Not that I don't have sympathy for ya, I do... LOTS. I just am not clear from your post who borrowed what from whom.
(((oneye)))
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: reality
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i hear the parents and I do get it. Reality is I did lend him the money, I did continue to let him steal. but at the same time he was always saying to me that if we broke up his parents would pay off his debt. Okay, probably in his fantasy world, and a way of manipulating me into thinking there was some kind of assurance.
but the way I see it, got nothing to lose, if nothing else it might fuel their fire to stop enabling him (letting him live at home, passing him money when he has spent all of his on drugs, putting dinner on the table at 6 every night, not making him pay back the money he stole from them etc.)
yeah, they have no responsibility to me, but hey, here is a real face on his theft, rather than the credit card companies that he owes nearly 100 grand to and they have refused to pay (paid the first time 50 grand then he just charged them right up again).
I must admit I have always been in a moral quandary about this (at one point abf even wanted to try to convince his father to pay me back and then have me give him a portion of it!!!) Yup, my stupidity, but you know, perhaps they who can afford it, will take pity on me and reckon that for my sake they will give it back to me and then deal with their son in their own way.
but the way I see it, got nothing to lose, if nothing else it might fuel their fire to stop enabling him (letting him live at home, passing him money when he has spent all of his on drugs, putting dinner on the table at 6 every night, not making him pay back the money he stole from them etc.)
yeah, they have no responsibility to me, but hey, here is a real face on his theft, rather than the credit card companies that he owes nearly 100 grand to and they have refused to pay (paid the first time 50 grand then he just charged them right up again).
I must admit I have always been in a moral quandary about this (at one point abf even wanted to try to convince his father to pay me back and then have me give him a portion of it!!!) Yup, my stupidity, but you know, perhaps they who can afford it, will take pity on me and reckon that for my sake they will give it back to me and then deal with their son in their own way.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
Taking him to court will assure that he has his credit ruined. I paid for too many of my daughter's mistakes and she ended up with excellent credit which allowed her to get some big credit cards which she used to buy drugs. Talk to his parents but file it in court. They can make good on what you get from the court, but it will be on his record. Hugs, Marle
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 472
Going to be a tad harsh. Good luck and maybe his parents will pay you back-but I doubt it!!!! After several hundred thousand, personal items-not much I can do about it legally. Do have a legal note for $30,000 but he works for cash now.Intent to defaud, etc-the truth is-we gave them the money=we let them use our credit cards-We have to learn to live with it and get over it. I cannot even buy a bottle of asprin-but his drug friends still come by and want something. Just because he told you something-does not make it true. Sorry if this makes everyone mad-did not mean to-just advise from someone who has been there and done that.
Living in the light
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sweet Home Serenity
Posts: 706
In my opinion his parents do not owe you for any of abf's debts. You willingly loaned him money, knowing he was an addict and untrustworthy and it is his debt alone.
By asking them you are basically asking them to enable him. Persuing the issue with the court is the least enabling way.
When it comes to money and addicts people need to cut their losses determined not to give or loan as a boundary.
By asking them you are basically asking them to enable him. Persuing the issue with the court is the least enabling way.
When it comes to money and addicts people need to cut their losses determined not to give or loan as a boundary.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: reality
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Reality is -- any of us who are owed money by the addicts, any of us who are shelling out money to cover the credit card debts that built up through our generosity towards some one we loved, someone we gave the money to with the best of intentions, money that could be spent on our children, health, education, or whatever we would otherwise have spent it on, any of us who have even the remotest possibility to recoup some of our loss, we would grab it.
so I am I supposed to live an impoverished life for the next 3 years just so that abf's parents get a chance to teach him a lesson? am I supposed to not ask for the money just to prevent them from being enablers? Hey, it is totally their choice whether they want to pay it or not, and you know, it isn't like I am some dealer threatening to break their son's legs, I am the woman who has put up with him, stuck it out with him, loved him and cared for him, and tried my best to have a relationship that would eventually work.
You know, if he had stolen this money from them instead of me they still wouldn't have thrown him out of the house or stopped their enabling, so why the heck shouldn't I ask for it of them??? Parents pay off their children's debts of all kinds for all reasons, a debt to an ex girlfriend is no different than a student loan, a credit card, a car loan, a mortgage, and many, many parents help pay those for their kids. It isn't my fault he used the money on drugs, It wasn't like I loaned it to him with the intention of him using it to drink and use. No, it was loaned again and again as hope that he would use it to make his life better, to get a leg up, to start something.
Yes, naive of me, but you know, if I can get some of that money back, I sure as heck am going to try
so I am I supposed to live an impoverished life for the next 3 years just so that abf's parents get a chance to teach him a lesson? am I supposed to not ask for the money just to prevent them from being enablers? Hey, it is totally their choice whether they want to pay it or not, and you know, it isn't like I am some dealer threatening to break their son's legs, I am the woman who has put up with him, stuck it out with him, loved him and cared for him, and tried my best to have a relationship that would eventually work.
You know, if he had stolen this money from them instead of me they still wouldn't have thrown him out of the house or stopped their enabling, so why the heck shouldn't I ask for it of them??? Parents pay off their children's debts of all kinds for all reasons, a debt to an ex girlfriend is no different than a student loan, a credit card, a car loan, a mortgage, and many, many parents help pay those for their kids. It isn't my fault he used the money on drugs, It wasn't like I loaned it to him with the intention of him using it to drink and use. No, it was loaned again and again as hope that he would use it to make his life better, to get a leg up, to start something.
Yes, naive of me, but you know, if I can get some of that money back, I sure as heck am going to try
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