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you are all going to yell at me for what i am thinking...

Old 07-17-2007, 05:52 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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(((DW)))) My apologies, it was me who suggested the part-time job.

The above conversation is good - you are getting lots of experience from others who have already walked this road.

What I know is true for me is that nothing I said, no words, no twist of a sentence, no tone of voice, no look on my face... not one thing, could get my addicted loved ones to 1. hear my side of things or 2. understand why I was doing what I needed to do or 3. tell me it was ok to continue with my boundaries.

Every contact turned out to be another opportunity to 1. wheedle 2. deny and 3. manipulate.... on both our parts.

But if this is what you want - why not do it? There is no legal reason not to contact your husband - your attorney is only trying to protect you, and if you no longer want that protection, you are not "bound" to it.

Just pick up the phone and have the conversation... no one here can accurately predict how it will turn out - only how it worked for each of us.

(((DW)))
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:05 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by drainedwife View Post
He doesnt already know what i want. he doesnt know if i wnat to divorce or not...me wanting to talk to him is for him to understand exactly where i am coming from..which for some reason he just doesnt get.
I know him better than anyone...and he does not want to loose his family. i believe he will do what it takes to get his family back...but of course that remains to be seen.
Getting my step dad involved was just because i cant talk to him....

I wanted to ask my lawyer to change the RO so we can converse on other topics.. by me going through my lawyer on everything it is costing a small fortune that i just dont have.

am i really in denial or just too hopeful that things will work out? i have heard alot of stories where things do work out. Lots of them....and my therapist doesnt beleive one has to "hit bottom" to make a realization...and she also says some people can do it on their own without any help ....and even not going to meetings or anything....but they first have to admit there is a problem.

Drained,

Chances are he does already know what you want. He doesn't get it because... simply he doesn't care. I would think that if he was willing to do whatever it takes to get his family back you would have seen some action by now. But, you haven't.. have you?
I do think that you are in denial. He already KNOWS that if he doesn't get clean he's going to lose his family. He hasn't shown a single step towards getting clean- no rehab, no meetings, nothing. Your husband is an addict- he doesn't care how you feel, he doesn't care if he hurts you and he has shown that many times now- abuse, claiming that he'll fight for full custody, calling you an unfit mother.. the list goes on.
As far as your therapist goes- I disagree. I am a recovering pain pill addict, I had to hit MY BOTTOM before I came to any realization. No one else, no matter how hard they tried, could make me stop. I agree it can be done without meetings- I've never attended one in my life and I'm clean today- over 6 years later. So I do believe that people can change... but i don't believe that your husband has shown any signs that he WANTS to change.
It's your decision drained, and you're going to do whatever works for YOU. But I think you need to really think what is it you want from all of this? Please take the time to figure out what YOU want. He'll always be an addict, there's ALWAYS a chance he may relapse- do you want to live the rest of your life like that?
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:38 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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DW
Why not write him a letter and give it to your lawyer, let him read it and give it to your husband. This way you let him know what you want and what you are willing to do. I know you miss him, and want to speak to him, we all miss our love one, not the addict and want to speak to the person they use to be.
Take the time to think what is best for you and your girls. In NJ it takes 18 months to get a divorce, so you have time to change your mind. Don't worry about the lawyer bill right now, worry about what you have to do for you and your girls.
Hugs coming your way
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:56 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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((((Drained))))))

You sound very torn with this decision. Is there a way that you can put things on hold, even for a short time, to be sure of what it is YOU want to do? I've read your posts, and my personal opinion aside, you have to do what is right for you, and for your children. I also know that it's hard to know what exactly is the right thing when you're confused - so my suggestion would be to take a little time without changing anything to make sure of what you want...time where you can look at the past, as well as the present.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:56 PM
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One thing that I want to point out is that he can't get clean for anyone but himself. I know you want to believe that his mom and dad knowing will make a difference. It didn't for my daughter and we were very close. The important thing is to get yourself and your children as healthy as you can. That way if he ever does get clean, you will already have a headstart on a better life and if he doesn't then you will still be in a better place. I hope things work out for you because only you can decide what is right in your life. Hugs, Marle
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:18 PM
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Let me offer a gentle reminder that this man is the same man who 5 days ago filed a claim in court stating that you were an unfit mother and was/is seeking custody of your children.

You said it yourself, he goes back and forth between being nice and being mean...this is classic addict behavior.

Think long and hard before taking this step. I fear it may be one that you regret.
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:54 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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DW,
I hope you wait. I too ran out of lawyer money. I still have my laywer retained tho. I'm trying to work stuff out with my AH to save money. He keeps avoiding the subject, and instead, lavishes me with gifts, comes over and does the heavy work on my little farm, BLA BLA BLA. I almost fell for it too, until he used my computer, which still has spy ware on it. So after all the professing that he is clean, joined a gym, became dad of the year, sure he isn't on vicodin, or cocaine or morphine, or crack, anymore. he has switched(again). This has been going on 22 years. it will never change. And i thought i knew him better than he knew himself. Boy, was I wrong! My concern for you and your kids tho, is that he was violent with you. That is scarier than drugs. And like drugs, it will only escalate. Please breathe and take time to make your decision. I like the advice of a letter thru your lawyer. Or maybe tape record yourself.

I'll be thinking of you
((((((DW)))))
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:12 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Hi honey. no one is yelling at you. I was there and a lot of the ideas that are coming from everyone come from experience, not just down on the addicts. You know what he is right now, you heard the denials, accustations, lies. These are addict behaviors.I am one of those idiots that have to go with my heart and damn the consequences. My keith died with his addiction but I truly have no regrets about knowing or loving him. If I had known he was using again, after getting a sponsor and supposedly going to meetings, I would not have stayed, but I did give him a chance because I loved him very much. I don't regret it. Peace to you this day..Marian
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:18 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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If u feel that talking to him and explaining yourself and your wants will help change things or help him to realize what u would like him to do than go ahead. You have been with this person for a long time I can understand why its so hard to walk away. If you want to make it work and help him work on things then go ahead. At least if things dont work out u cant say u didnt try. If u read around some of the other forums even after the addict is clean they change sometimes they never go back to being the same person.

Take for instance my dad he was/is an alcoholic he used to be funny, laughed, seemed to enjoy things more. Now that he is sober he is a serious, demanding, one sided, opinionated person. Maybe he was all along and that side just didnt show itself very often. Just remember no one can make a person change as its been said around here b4 if love could get them clean non of us would be here. Also like its been said b4 he came clean off pills and is still on the sub, then switched to the coke, IMHO from taking pills they give u some energy, pep u up, make u feel good. Then on the sub the pills cant do that anymore so he switched to the coke to give him that pep, that feel good feeling. What if he finds something else to do that to him? Looks like hes trying to escape something trying to change the way he feels. I would just hate in a few yrs or months for u to go through this yet with a different drug. Something to think about, maybe.

U have to do what u can live with, u have to do what is best for u and your children I think alot of parents think keeping the marriage together for the children is the best thing for them. I tend to disagree if its an unhappy marriage I dont think children should have to watch their parents fight all the time and be miserable because they think its best. Was the marriage good b4 the drugs? Will u be able to let go of the past and move on to the future? Will u be able to ever trust him again? If I personally answered "NO" to any of these ?'s I would have to question my future with this person and if this person is who I want to be with. If u dont think u can let go of the past what does the future hold, I hope not playing detective, questioning him, being his babysitter.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:25 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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hi dw,

I don't have much to add to all the other responses. All I have is my own experience, and I do know what you are feeling and how much it hurts. I have been seperated now for almost five months, but I too have done this whole thing several times before and always ended up going back in hopes that my prince charming had finally returned. He never did, not in 25 years.

Maybe your ah will be different, but I really doubt it from what you have posted. I also would urge you to go back and read through all your posts from the very beginning.

The bitter reality of what a lie my whole marriage has been is truly just now beginning to really hit me; I am going to my first counseling session in a few hours to try to really come to grips with the whole thing. The damage that has been done to my adult children is also only now becoming clear, and the hardest part to stomach is just how much of that damage is mine to claim and not all my ex's.

I wish you the best, and I really hope your fairytale will have a better ending than mine did.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:51 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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just hugs, drained. k
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:01 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Drained,



I understand where your coming from .. I really do, but those what if's are endless and run in both directions ..

what if he has changed and you don't give him a chance?
what if he hasn't really changed and you take him back?
what if is really clean?
what if he is just abstaining?
what if .. what if .. what if ...

It is only natural to want things to work out and to be hopeful of getting back together if he truly gets clean ..
It is so very confusing .. because we love them .. and we want things to work out .. and your right .. He can change IF change is what he wants... this desire has to come from deep inside of him for it to happen .. Us wanting, wishing and hoping it for them is not enough ... and what it all boils down to is What is it that YOU want? What is it that you can handle What is it that best suits your life and the direction you want it to go ...

IF he is really clean now at this point what is he doing to ensure he stays headed in that direction? Meetings, rehab? Or is he doing it on his own?

One must be very careful when the addict say's he/she is clean because addicts say what they know we like to hear ... (I'm not saying that is what he is doing, but I am saying be very careful) The best way to evaluate if a person is clean is by their deeds .. not what they say, but rather what they do .. how much of themselves they are pouring into their recovery ... How much of the addict behavior is beginning to fade away and the person you once knew and loved is coming forth and stepping up to the plate.

If the addict truly wants help .. the addict will get help and will do whatever it takes .. they won't idly sit and wait for us to make up our minds for them ... they will have a determination that says "I am going to get myself clean REGARDLESS" because they know their life depends on it ...

You wanting to talk to him .. so that he understands where you are coming from is normal, but please don't get your hopes up to high about him being able to meet your expectations of him .. He may not be ready or capable at this point to do so .. and if he feels he has to get clean to save his marriage .. he might go through the motions for now, but ultimately if he wasn't ready he will go back to using ..

You know the only way I can explain it is ... take someone who steals for the first or maybe second time .. and they get caught .. they are embarrassed, humiliated, ashamed and deep down in their core they decide they will never do it again ... and don't (talking from experience here), but now take a kleptomaniac .. though they get caught .. and feel all the same feelings above .. and may vow to never do it again ... they have a disorder and unless they get help .. they will inevitably give into their sickness ...

So is it with the addict .. they get caught, confronted, given ultimatums and in fear or shame they make promises that even the best of intentions couldn't keep .. because they don't even really realize when the rubber hits the road how hard it is going to be to get clean and remain clean ... Help is needed ..

We too don't realize how hard it is going to be for them ... We've laid down the law .. they've agreed and then somewhere along the line the addiction starts calling his/her name and the struggle begins ... addiction is relentless and it doesn't stop calling .. it calls daily and each day it gets louder and louder and louder to the point that the addict will use just to shut it up ... (again speaking from personal experience) ...

I cannot tell you how many times I told people I was clean when I wasn't ... (there were times I said I was clean to manipulate someone into doing or giving me something I wanted .. and there were times I did it out of fear, out of shame, out of embarrassment .. (shame and embarrassment didn't happen for me until closer to the end of my active addiction) Fear governed me and most of the time I lied about being clean because I had something to lose if I didn't ... I had to lie, hide and perform to keep hold of whatever, whomever I didn't want to lose.

Addicts don't think they're addicts .. they have this idea in their head that they can quit any time they want ... and sometimes they will even try to quit on their own .. only to go back to using after a few days ... but they don't equate going back with being addicted .. we tend to think we go back by our own choice .. not even realizing that we are caught in a web .. and that realization evades us until we come to a place where it is our very own decision to get clean ..

There is a difference in "quitting" and in "getting clean" .. Quitting is something the addict attempts to do .. and generally fails .. getting clean is something the addict does.... and though they may slip during the process they get up dust themselves off and get back on track ... and eventually obtain the intended.
I want to throw in the fact that abstaining isn't recovery either .. it is important to keep that in mind .. because we want so badly for them to change and for us to be able to get back to a "normal life" that most times we put on the rose colored glasses and miss the truth that is right under our nose.

I could go on and on and on .. but in short .. from past post .. he exhibits "classic addict behavior" which in my opinion doesn't reflect the heart of recovery .. Please try to think with your head and not your heart ... because it is true .. Love is blind .. and the addict is a skilled master at manipulation and deception .. so much so .. that he/she even has oneself fooled .. Denial runs deep ..

Right now the ball is in your court .. You have to decide the game plan for YOU and it may include a plan without him in it. Only you can decide how much you can and cannot take and how much of your life your willing to put on hold while waiting for him to get clean or not.

****{Hugs}}}
Passion

Last edited by nytepassion; 07-18-2007 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:11 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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((((((drained))))) -

i just want to say that you need to do what you need to do for YOU - everyone can offer their experiences - everyone can tell you what they *think* you should do - but everyone only knows what you tell them - maybe you got a little ahead of yourself with the attorney, the restraining order, the divorce - only you know about that...

i think, sometimes, it's easy to get caught up in the *doing the right thing* - the thing the majority thinks you should do but it might not be right - that's ok - you need to take care of yourself and your kids - it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks - no one could yell at you louder than you yelling at yourself - if you decide to not go ahead with the divorce, the ro - it's ok - if you decide that you never want to go back to that place that led you here that's ok too - whatever you decide is ok - it's your life and what others think of you is none of your business...

it is going to be ok - i hope you feel better today...

;love,
s
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:09 PM
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'Round and 'Round I Go....
 
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DW.....
I've been down this road of feeling like anything thing I said isn't enough. That I must clarify...state and re-state what my feelings are because I felt like he didn't get it or didn't fully understand where I was coming from and to tell him how difficult everything was for me because I still love him. I needed him to know exactly what I was feeling because I wanted him to fight for our marriage. I wanted to encourage him to stop just by letting him know that I support him in sobriety.
None of that mattered, DW.
In the end I realized that every effort I had put out to "let him know" to "tell him" was for me. I needed to do all of those things to make myself feel better for the actions I was taking. He already knows honey. He knows how you feel. He knows what you want. Believe me...anything you've said in the past he's heard loud and clear. He's an adult not a four year old child who doesn't know any better. He knows what he is doing wrong and he knows how to go about correcting atleast half of what he's done.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:08 PM
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sorry about your situation, i dont know about all your posts, and i nor anyone here certainly can't tell you how to live your life. i can tell you this, my addict is my 20 year old son. if he were my spouse, i would divorce him immediately, do not pass go, do not collect $200. weve been through 5 years of active addiction with him. he lied, cheated, stole, broken in, rehab, counseling, jail.etc why would anyone in their right mind go through this chaos. i have to, hes my son. if he were'nt , i would take bankruptcy if i had to, just to get away from his destruction. in most states you don't need a lawyer for a divorce, consult the dept of human services,or the local womens shelter, if there are abuse issues they will likely assist in your divorce, proceedings. at the very least they should know someone who can point you in the right(cheapest) direction. my as has two sober brothers, the havoc he has wreaked in their life is unspeakable, they like me, can't divorce him, they have to bear this despicable situation, protect yourself and your children at all cost, can we really put a price on yours and their peace of mind
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:29 PM
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I went back to your old posts as I know how hard & how long you have been struggling with this. I just picked one you posted when you first joined. Try rereading all your old posts & maybe you will find the strength to do what is best for you & your 2 children.
Love,
Diane
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drainedwife
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Location: jacksonville, florida
Posts: 241 please help...what do i do?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i just found a bag of cocaine in my ah's briefcase. what should i do?
should i flush it?? he knows i want no drugs in the house..he told me he has stopped using....i dont know what to do with it....show it to him and tell him to get out? if i do that im afraid he will get violent with me....
should i take it to a lab so they can tell me exactly what it is? will i get in trouble for having it? if i get the reportfrom the lab, then i can show him the report so he cant deny it, even though he will try.
please help...i cant take this anymore.....
Drained
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:09 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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(((((DW))))

I know a lot of addicts that think if no one sees them using that makes them clean...
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:03 PM
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Just sending prayers your way.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:09 PM
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