the evaluation can only be done from a legal standpoint
Starry Girl
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Starry Night
Posts: 251
I have addressed my comments in a PM, so everyone knows.
But to clarify, I should have said actions were bad mom actions. No one is a completely bad mom or dad or wife or husband. However, some decisions I have made in my own life were me trying to be a good mom but ending up being a not so good mom because in the heat of the moment, I put my codie needs first and then justified it to myself.
I think anyone who has done the dance with an addict has acted selfishly at some point. I know I have. It is very selfish for me to continue trying to keep my marriage hanging on while my son twists in the wind around his dad's continued abuse. I know when my AH left, my son felt much better, and I wish everyday it would have happened sooner. In HINDSIGHT, I feel very guilty for putting my three year old through this.
Condemn me or accept me, it's how I feel and those who know me also know I am rarely this passionate on a thread. When something hits this close to home, it is hard not to be. Hope this clarifies.
But to clarify, I should have said actions were bad mom actions. No one is a completely bad mom or dad or wife or husband. However, some decisions I have made in my own life were me trying to be a good mom but ending up being a not so good mom because in the heat of the moment, I put my codie needs first and then justified it to myself.
I think anyone who has done the dance with an addict has acted selfishly at some point. I know I have. It is very selfish for me to continue trying to keep my marriage hanging on while my son twists in the wind around his dad's continued abuse. I know when my AH left, my son felt much better, and I wish everyday it would have happened sooner. In HINDSIGHT, I feel very guilty for putting my three year old through this.
Condemn me or accept me, it's how I feel and those who know me also know I am rarely this passionate on a thread. When something hits this close to home, it is hard not to be. Hope this clarifies.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
also, my therapist along with many others does not agree with the term "powerless". She has much experience with substance abuse and she beleives it is the right thing to do to give them a choice--what about interventions--the addict in an intervention is given a choice--i think you are being very closed minded here--not all addicts are the same....maybe by giving them a choice (and dr. phil calls it giving them a gift) a choice might work. Im sorry but it is an opinion, not a fact that you are powerless---in some instances that just might be--but not in every case.
Anyway, I really wanted to share what i read about powerlessness and I finally found it. Reading it again, it doesn't say a whole lot, but for me I read it right when I needed to and the message became very clear....powerlessness is not helplessness.
"Even though I may be powerless to change some circumstances, I certainly am not helpless. I can use my time to do something good for myself. When I treat myself with love and tenderness, I am better able to deal with the challenges that life presents."
Hugs
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
For me, powerlessness is a way of saying I can't control something. I couldn't control my alcoholism... I tried and tried, and still ended up waking up feeling guilty, dirty, bad and sick. I couldn't control my daughter's addictions... and woke up many a day feeling guilty, sad, grieving and sick.
My powerlessness is not over my choice to abstain, but over my choice to control.
My powerlessness is not over my choice to abstain, but over my choice to control.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Raising someones bottom is very hard to do what seems like a bottom to me could be Mt. Everest to the A in my life...
I have never seen more creativity wasted than in the tactics an Addict will use to keep using and blaming someone else for their choices. Rehab, jail, evals, choices, ultimatums, homelessness, joblessness, total void of spiritual life, for some this is not a bottom unfortunately cause they still have their mind set on using and believe someone else has put them in their situation...someone else did in fact put them there the self that they have become not who they really are. You can hit that wall of denial with a Sherman tank and it still won't fall in some cases. I hope your H is different from mine....
I have never seen more creativity wasted than in the tactics an Addict will use to keep using and blaming someone else for their choices. Rehab, jail, evals, choices, ultimatums, homelessness, joblessness, total void of spiritual life, for some this is not a bottom unfortunately cause they still have their mind set on using and believe someone else has put them in their situation...someone else did in fact put them there the self that they have become not who they really are. You can hit that wall of denial with a Sherman tank and it still won't fall in some cases. I hope your H is different from mine....
President
Join Date: May 2006
Location: on our next big adventure!
Posts: 1,253
I just think you're hanging all your hopes on something that's so easily defeated. So he goes for an eval. He lies, says he doesn't have a problem and they say he's either not ready for rehab or they say he doesn't have a problem because he's smart enough to not wrap himself into it all. And then what!?!? He just comes home? Or what if does submit himself to a rehab? Does that mean that you're going to continue to monitor him for the rest of your life? I think what we're all struggling with is understanding where this plan is going. Even if gets sober tomorrow, what happens if/when he relapses down the road?
For me, I had to remember, addiction changes people. I always wanted the old xabf back. The one before he was using. The xabf that was in my mind didn't exist anymore. And trying to bring back that person left me with a whole lot of pain.
But, just like I couldn't change my xabf, I can't change you and can't make you see what I've seen and know what I know.
Did you ever read what I sent you?
For me, I had to remember, addiction changes people. I always wanted the old xabf back. The one before he was using. The xabf that was in my mind didn't exist anymore. And trying to bring back that person left me with a whole lot of pain.
But, just like I couldn't change my xabf, I can't change you and can't make you see what I've seen and know what I know.
Did you ever read what I sent you?
A work in progress....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
dw,
I apologize if I have said anything that hurt you. I know that you are confused and you are trying very hard to do the best thing you can for yourself and your kids.
I meant it earlier when I said there is no judgement from me; I have done way too many crazy things during my marriage to ever judge you or anyone else. Good grief, it took me 25 years to figure out what in the world I had been doing....
Our situations are just so eerily similar and so many of the things that you post about that your ah says or does are almost exactly the same things I have gone through. Like I posted on one of your threads a couple of days back, reading what your ah said, I could literally hear the words coming from my ex, and see the expression on his face. And I believed in him, too. And I was wrong....I hope you aren't, I really really do.
It helped me get my feet on the ground and my head out of the clouds to hear what others had gone through when I first came here, when I was beginning to accept the reality that my ex is an addict. I take the time to share my experiences in hopes that it might help you in the same way.
As far as your kids, I know you want the very best for them. So did I. But what I have only now come to understand is how very badly my boys were hurting all those years when I was doing the codie dance with their dad and trying to manipulate and control every thing that happened. In my mind, I was protecting them. But that is not how they felt. (They are both adults now, and we can talk about all this.) Both of my sons have cried bitter tears in recent months while telling me how they felt; how scared and confused and angry. And how alone they felt, because as their dad was out doing dope, their mom was a basket case trying to keep everything from blowing up. I thought what I was doing was right. It wasn't. I should have protected THEM instead of their dad. It still breaks my heart that they don't have the father that they deserve. But I have had to accept the fact that it is not within my power to give them that father. Maybe it will be different for you.
Your life is yours and no one here can tell you what to do. If anyone offended you, just try to remember that you are amongst a bunch of world champion codependents here, and we all have this compulsion to try to help. We are an emotional lot, as well, and sometimes things get dramatic with us.
But we all really do care, or we wouldn't spend the time reading your posts and offering our experience.
((((hugs)))))
I apologize if I have said anything that hurt you. I know that you are confused and you are trying very hard to do the best thing you can for yourself and your kids.
I meant it earlier when I said there is no judgement from me; I have done way too many crazy things during my marriage to ever judge you or anyone else. Good grief, it took me 25 years to figure out what in the world I had been doing....
Our situations are just so eerily similar and so many of the things that you post about that your ah says or does are almost exactly the same things I have gone through. Like I posted on one of your threads a couple of days back, reading what your ah said, I could literally hear the words coming from my ex, and see the expression on his face. And I believed in him, too. And I was wrong....I hope you aren't, I really really do.
It helped me get my feet on the ground and my head out of the clouds to hear what others had gone through when I first came here, when I was beginning to accept the reality that my ex is an addict. I take the time to share my experiences in hopes that it might help you in the same way.
As far as your kids, I know you want the very best for them. So did I. But what I have only now come to understand is how very badly my boys were hurting all those years when I was doing the codie dance with their dad and trying to manipulate and control every thing that happened. In my mind, I was protecting them. But that is not how they felt. (They are both adults now, and we can talk about all this.) Both of my sons have cried bitter tears in recent months while telling me how they felt; how scared and confused and angry. And how alone they felt, because as their dad was out doing dope, their mom was a basket case trying to keep everything from blowing up. I thought what I was doing was right. It wasn't. I should have protected THEM instead of their dad. It still breaks my heart that they don't have the father that they deserve. But I have had to accept the fact that it is not within my power to give them that father. Maybe it will be different for you.
Your life is yours and no one here can tell you what to do. If anyone offended you, just try to remember that you are amongst a bunch of world champion codependents here, and we all have this compulsion to try to help. We are an emotional lot, as well, and sometimes things get dramatic with us.
But we all really do care, or we wouldn't spend the time reading your posts and offering our experience.
((((hugs)))))
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 28
DW,
I do not post much, but I wanted to let you know I have admired your courage in all of this. But, please don't get sucked into beleiving anything an addict says. Mine got out his merk manual and showed me how cocaine was only phsycoloigally addicitng. see honey, it's not so bad!! LOL. thousands of dollars and many other drugs and women later(22years). I have finally woke up. All the time spent trying to understand drugs and signs of drug use, I could have been playing ball with my kids.
I woke up when i came here. All of the life experience and loving advice! and for free! My AH is a "professional". I too worried about him losing his practice, and his reputation. But right now, I am selling the farm animals, and getting ready to leave one day, because frankly, I'd rather cram my 2 sons into an apartment, than to live a total lie, being a doormat and his little "work horse" GRRRRRR. I hope one day you can see through his lies. I hope you can understand that you CAN take care of yourself financially. Sometimes you don't realize how many friends you have till you really need them. Don't be afraid any more DW, you have been afraid way too long. One more thing, Your kids will respect you more for standing up for yourself. They understand more than you know. I learned that through the forums here, by the way. ((((HUGS))))))
I do not post much, but I wanted to let you know I have admired your courage in all of this. But, please don't get sucked into beleiving anything an addict says. Mine got out his merk manual and showed me how cocaine was only phsycoloigally addicitng. see honey, it's not so bad!! LOL. thousands of dollars and many other drugs and women later(22years). I have finally woke up. All the time spent trying to understand drugs and signs of drug use, I could have been playing ball with my kids.
I woke up when i came here. All of the life experience and loving advice! and for free! My AH is a "professional". I too worried about him losing his practice, and his reputation. But right now, I am selling the farm animals, and getting ready to leave one day, because frankly, I'd rather cram my 2 sons into an apartment, than to live a total lie, being a doormat and his little "work horse" GRRRRRR. I hope one day you can see through his lies. I hope you can understand that you CAN take care of yourself financially. Sometimes you don't realize how many friends you have till you really need them. Don't be afraid any more DW, you have been afraid way too long. One more thing, Your kids will respect you more for standing up for yourself. They understand more than you know. I learned that through the forums here, by the way. ((((HUGS))))))
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Finding Myself
Posts: 91
I don't think there is a person posting here, particularly in the beginning, who hasn't been angered by what someone else posted to them. We all understand, it's hard to hear things sometimes. I don't know if you are a bad mom or not, I've never met you or your kids. I am certain that you think you are doing the best you can right now, we all do the best that we can do at any given time. Never forget though, the people who are posting here have been dealing with this misery and heartache for a very long time, for many it has been years and years. The raised hopes when the addict takes a step or two towards recovery, the heartbreaking disappointment when our addicts have once again let us down is a uniting bond. Most of us have suffered so much wasted pain and we see that in you right now. Everyone here has nothing but the best of intentions and I truly believe they are just trying to prevent you from suffering a lot of the pain that we had because we all see you going down a path that for none of us worked. Maybe, somehow, someway your husband will be different. I'll be honest and say if that was the case I would be stunned.
We are all speaking from years of wanting desperately to believe that our addicts would be different and so far I've not seen one that really was. You are correct, there are absolutely different ways of recovery and rehab and 12-step programs are not for everyone. My husband is living proof of that. What I truly believe down deep though is the journey to recovery is exactly the same and that is only when the addict is ready to seek recovery in an genuine manner, because he wants for himself and only for himself will whatever method of treatment that is seeked will work. I just don't believe having someone else "evaluate" them and diagnose them will make a hill of beans difference until they are ready to really accept it and from everything that you have posted time and time again I just see no signs of your AH being anywhere near really accepting the fact the he is a plain old drug addict. For my beliefs until that happens, nothing will change.
It was the same for me and my recovery as well. Until I really accepted that my husbands addiction was completely out of my control, that there was nothing I could do to change it and that it was completely up to him, I couldn't get past trying to "help" him. It consumed every thought I had. I spent hours reading books and the internet about what I could do to help him, he was my focus, not me. I nearly died from it, literally. My health deteriorated quickly while I was trying to "save" him. You can believe in it or not, but it won't change the fact that you are powerless over addiction, you just can't manipulate it. One night, it finally sank in for me. I cried for what seemed like hours but from then everything was different. My husband was still an addict, that didn't change...but I changed. That moment saved my life.
Drained, I wish you nothing but the very best and I will hope and pray that somehow this situation works out better than all of ours did. You've got some tough days ahead of you and I hope you will continue to come here for support. There are many wise people here who can help guide you through. You, your husband and your children will be in my prayers.
We are all speaking from years of wanting desperately to believe that our addicts would be different and so far I've not seen one that really was. You are correct, there are absolutely different ways of recovery and rehab and 12-step programs are not for everyone. My husband is living proof of that. What I truly believe down deep though is the journey to recovery is exactly the same and that is only when the addict is ready to seek recovery in an genuine manner, because he wants for himself and only for himself will whatever method of treatment that is seeked will work. I just don't believe having someone else "evaluate" them and diagnose them will make a hill of beans difference until they are ready to really accept it and from everything that you have posted time and time again I just see no signs of your AH being anywhere near really accepting the fact the he is a plain old drug addict. For my beliefs until that happens, nothing will change.
It was the same for me and my recovery as well. Until I really accepted that my husbands addiction was completely out of my control, that there was nothing I could do to change it and that it was completely up to him, I couldn't get past trying to "help" him. It consumed every thought I had. I spent hours reading books and the internet about what I could do to help him, he was my focus, not me. I nearly died from it, literally. My health deteriorated quickly while I was trying to "save" him. You can believe in it or not, but it won't change the fact that you are powerless over addiction, you just can't manipulate it. One night, it finally sank in for me. I cried for what seemed like hours but from then everything was different. My husband was still an addict, that didn't change...but I changed. That moment saved my life.
Drained, I wish you nothing but the very best and I will hope and pray that somehow this situation works out better than all of ours did. You've got some tough days ahead of you and I hope you will continue to come here for support. There are many wise people here who can help guide you through. You, your husband and your children will be in my prayers.
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