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the evaluation can only be done from a legal standpoint

Old 07-10-2007, 10:22 AM
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Drained,
In dealing with my son I had to try anything and everything before I would give up on the notion that I could control my son's actions.
I had to...or else I may have always wondered if I "could've" if I "would've"
We all do what we can for now...and learn as we go.
You are entitled to your own experiences.
(((Hugs)))
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:26 AM
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My two cents is your husband certainly is a lawyer/Spin Doctor. Addicts are very clever people without having a carreer such as a lawyer that is based on technicalities and maniputalion of the truth. The truth is coke in its purest form can very easily kill a person. It is cut with dozens of diffrent things and by the time coke gets from the field to the user it can be cut up to 10 times I think the number is. Along with the drug being too strong and needing to be cut drug dealers also cut the drugs they sale to say make a pound of coke cut with baby laxitiv weigh 1.25 pds. Each time the drug is sold to a dealer it is likely to be cut for profit. Now does that make coke any less addictive...NO. I have done coke one time and I can understand how a person could get addicted and I never tried anymore. Coke is addictive as its purest form of coke, Crack, which is made by cooking the powder form of coke. The coke your AH refers to as not addictive is cooked and all the junk the coke has been cut with seperates from the drug and is scooped away. The crack cocaine is now at a pure form of 75 to 95 % pure. Your husband is an addict and a BS'er...

As far as you doing the things for him so he can keep his job to take care of the kids and you. You dont get it...it is possible that as bad as you think it is right now...it may very well be 10 times worse in everyway and you will never know until it all comes falling down on you. The way to not be taken down by your addict is to not get in between them and thier rock bottom. Also you assume if AH has a job he will take care of his family first before his addiction, WRONG. You also assume that if he does not get disbarred from law that he will have a job, NO...who would want him in his condition. The best thing is for you to start making preaprtations for you to raise your kids with or without his help. There are people on SR who were successful people at one time, who had it all and they now have trouble paying for basic services and food. You have apparently had a nice financial life up until now...it sounds above average to me and I don't blame you for not wanting to let it go BUT it sounds to me like it is already gone, you just don't know it yet. YOU do the right thing for your kids instead of saying YOU are allowing him to keep working and paying for a lavish lifestyle for his family. I think the gravy train is a run away train. Good luck and take care.
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:26 AM
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DW wrote
He is the father of my children and THEY deserve a healthy dad.

What you deserve in this life is not always what you get......they also deserve a Mom that puts their needs before a drug addicts....I don't mean to sound harsh and I certainly feel for you and the pain you are in....however your children should be your first priority and he has shown you time and time again that to be a good husband and father is not in his plans.....

You cannot help him, nothing you say will change him....so please, please set about to making changes in yourself......listen to what all of these good people are saying, they only want what is best for you and your kids......

Said with sadness and concern,
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:30 AM
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I agree what everyone has said - you can't push him, help him, or lift his bottom - when he is ready then it will happen.

My RAH had his psychiatirst so snowed for about a year in regards to doing drugs. Addicts are so good at lying -

Trust me I totally understand the need to try everything, that is what I did, but nothing worked until he was ready to get clean. I don't know what it was, but it just happen one day and I didn't have anything to do with it.
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:38 AM
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Sorry I must have hit the submit button twice.....


DW wrote
He is the father of my children and THEY deserve a healthy dad.

What you deserve in this life is not always what you get......they also deserve a Mom that puts their needs before a drug addicts....I don't mean to sound harsh and I certainly feel for you and the pain you are in....however your children should be your first priority and he has shown you time and time again that to be a good husband and father is not in his plans.....

You cannot help him, nothing you say will change him....so please, please set about to making changes in yourself......listen to what all of these good people are saying, they only want what is best for you and your kids......

Said with sadness and concern,
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:03 AM
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This is just really sad.

You tooks some good steps a few weeks back. It seems now that you have resolutely dug your heels in again and are back to your old ways.

If you want your kids to have a good dad, go out and find them one. Because your AH isn't a good dad, nor is he likely to become one.

Sorry to say, no you DO NOT have to depend on him while he has a job. You are just putting it off because you are being selfish/scared/emotionally not ready. I did the same exact thing with my AH and in the span of THREE DAYS he was out of my house, in rehab and jobless. And where was I??? NO job, a few bucks saved, alone. I found a job within two weeks and trudged on.

I feel bad for your kids like I feel bad for my own because I so often put his father's needs or MY needs in front of his. I told myself he was too young to know. I told myself I was doing it so he could continue to have a relationship with his dad in the future.

You know, that was a bunch of crap. I stayed because I was too lazy and too selfish to make it work alone. I kept manipulating because I wanted the power and I felt that was the only way I could get it. Hell, I felt like I DESERVED the power after "everything I'd been through". That makes me AND you, a bad mom. I loved myself and my AH more than I loved my kid. The truth hurts, it hurts bad, but I am just now in the past two months actually putting my child FIRST, for the first time in 3.5 years.

When you wake up and decide to stop being selfish, yes, selfish, then your kids will have a better life. Until then, you will have to accept that you are putting them last in your choices. I sound very harsh, I realize that, but I did the VERY SAME THING and so I understand it. Take what you like and leave the rest, you won't hit bottom til you are ready.
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:59 AM
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Once at an eval my H told the Dr. he only used about once a month but, I guess the evaluator did not read in between the lines cause he really should have said was every day all day long but, I guess my it could have meant once a month to my H...
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by drainedwife View Post
...his reasons for sending me the letter on the purity of coc was because he has convinced himself he is not addictd to it, and then he read an article about the purity of cocaine and how it is not "as addicting when it is not in its pureset form.." and he read that and it reinforced his beliefs and so he wanted to get that point across to me...not to justify his using..he knows he shouldnt be doing coke and he has told me so.....
He is absolutely trying to 'justify' his drug use. He is just telling you what you want to hear. That's what addicts do. As long as he is 'convinced' that he is not an addict, then there is not a snowball's chance in he** that he will ever get any better. And as long as you keep dancing the dance, neither will you.

I played this same game with my ex for a very long time. Then one day I blinked, and our business was gone, and I was fifty years old and suddenly realized that I had spent half my life playing it. Accepting that I was as sick as he is was not a pleasant reality, but it was reality none the less.

You have gotten some heartfelt advice here from lots of people; you don't want to hear what we're saying, and that is your choice. I had to get burned plenty of times before I accepted reality, so there is no judgement from me. It's your life, and I wish you all the best.
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:29 PM
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I realize its sorta been forgotten, but what about the violence that brought on your rushing for a restraining order in the first place. The violence and anger you children witnessed and one child tried to protect you from?

For me and my AH its not about the drugs anymore, the problem is what the kids have been subjected to in a place they should have felt safe, that doesnt stop just ebcuase the substances might or might not.

For me I allowed my kids to be exposed to too much and now all I can do is try to work forward and be sure that never happens in our home again
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:50 PM
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what is going on here?

ok-- i dont get it--what am i doing that is so wrong---??

first of all , by the advice of my lawyer (who happens to have a brother who is a recovered crack addict)....i contacted psychiatrists....and so what if i am worried abotu him getting disbarred----right now, I CANNOT SUPPORT MY KIDS ALONE--it just cant be done on my salary---I am counting on his salary fo rthe present until i can get on my feet--it doesnt happen overnight ya know...

how am i being selfish and being a bad mom?? i got him out of the house--I am following what my lawyer advises...I am working full-time, trying to find out how I can get either a better job or get my teaching degree--, i amgong to therapy 2x a week for my mental health, i am a single parent doing everything i can do for my kids, going back and forth to court, talking to my lawyer and trying to get a handle on this....geez-- i just filed for divorce a few weeks ago...I am doing my best right now with what i have--do you people think i can make a million decisions over night??

also, my therapist along with many others does not agree with the term "powerless". She has much experience with substance abuse and she beleives it is the right thing to do to give them a choice--what about interventions--the addict in an intervention is given a choice--i think you are being very closed minded here--not all addicts are the same....maybe by giving them a choice (and dr. phil calls it giving them a gift) a choice might work. Im sorry but it is an opinion, not a fact that you are powerless---in some instances that just might be--but not in every case.
and for you to call me a "bad mother" or "selfish" is just not fair..i am not selfish i am doing everything i can for my kids right now.....and i dont even know if this is a place i feel safe going to anymore....if you are going to criticize me in this manner I think you are just being cruel... you are kicking someone who is already down--

do you think that you can be wrong about raising someones bottom?? why dont you all do some research on it and see what you come up with....naranon, alanon, aa, is not the only program out there--12 steps is not for everyone....there are other ways. WHen you have the same expertise as my therapist does and other counselors i have spoken to (some with over 30 yrs. experience who also believe in giving someone a choice) then you can state what you feel more as fact as you are doing so now in telling me i am wrong about that.

Last edited by drainedwife; 07-10-2007 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:21 PM
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I think maybe most people just think that you are putting too much emphasis on how to help him, how to get him to the bottom. An addict has a choice every time they decide to use - I gave my RAH a choice so many times and I fell for everything he told me all the time. I always thought this is it - this time it will work and guess what it didn't. Like I said, it worked when he was ready with NO help from anyone.

This site is a wonderful site, I like that people will tell you how they see it. I wish I found this site way back when my RAH started using, I think my life would be very different. In my case - not sure about anyone else, but just because he doesn't use anymore things are not like they use to be. He had mood swings, not sure if that is from using or not. I am also always wondering at times if he is using or if he goes out "will he come home". I have told him I will NEVER go thru that again.

Yes I feel horrible for what I put my son thru for 2 years - I will never do it again. As much as I tried to make things normal for him, it wasn't. He was asking where is daddy, or I was crying or up all night wondering were my AH was at the time.

When it comes down to it - they are your choices to make. It just seems the focus is on him and not you. I have been there many times.

People will see things you may not - you have come along way, I wish I did what you have. Nobody wants to see you backslide.
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:27 PM
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I think everyones truying to help from their own experience. In my opinion youve come far from where you were out a few weeks before the altercation. I know a thousand feelings are running through every part of your head right now Ive been there/am there.

I have found though for me, when I think about him, I fall backwards in everything else too.

I do hope your husband has a bottom, I no longer believe mine does
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:38 PM
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DW,
You have come so far in such a short time. You are doing what you have to for yourself and your girls. Keep doing that and keep doing what is best for them. Listen to your lawyer and your therapist, take what you can from here and leave the rest. That is what is said in the meetings that I attend. It is the experience of the person saying it and it does not mean it is best for you. We all want you to stay strong and come out stronger than you are now.
I am always here for you if you need to talk. I worry about you. I am going to say something and please don't take it the wrong way.
It is to remember the 3 c's
1. You can't Control it
2. You didn't Cause it
3. You can't Cure it.
All said with love,
Hugs and prayers coming to you
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:31 PM
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DW,
I know it's hard and that you are trying, what I'm sharing with you is what _I_ have been through. Like many others here- we have tried many or all of the same things you are doing right now. Thousands of tears, sleepless nights, betrayals, loss of financial security and thousands of dollars spent on therapy- treatment and every other effort imaginable- have put most of us in the same place- with an addict who continues to act out and harm others.

Those of us here- many that have shared that I know very well- including myself DO have your best interest in mind...more than that alot of us are moms and/or children of addicts and have been through this--- for many years.

What I'm concerned about is your kids...I know you are a good mom- but I can say that living with addiction causes so much chaos that I have often found myself in the middle of bad situations that could have been prevented had I listened to others who had more experience. Many times I just could not see what my actions and lack of action at times was costing me. I could not see that I was preventing my son from being forced to stop using.

I have been forced to change my thinking and actions in order for me to stay safe and protect my home and family. It can get very bad...and it can happen fast. Some people wake up and find their life savings has disappeared or that their child has been beaten...

Abuse like you have experienced can happen again...statistics show that it's progressive. I'm hoping that you won't do things to make the restraining order null...and in doing that expose yourself and kids to harm - when or if he loses control again.

Maybe you might be interested to hear from some other addicts...at an open NA or AA meeting---and see for yourself what makes someone want to recover. I've been to hundreds of such meetings- and had my eyes opened. They all have the same story, just like we family members do. It usually takes something devastating to even the the attention of an active addict...the plain truth is that often even that is not enough.

I want the best for you, and your kids- the others who share take of their time to read all your posts and invest themselves in you...because "it takes one to know one" when it comes to this disease (my disease)

Should you choose to leave this forum, I hope you will take away the experiences shared with you- experiences that were costly. The sharing here comes from caring and hoping that someone else can be spared a great deal of suffering. I care about you.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:13 PM
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I agree that i may be focusing too much on him and not enough on me but mylawyer called me on sunday and was talking about the psychiatrists and the eval.. and i got worried...i am a worrier by nature..that is one of my faults...i cant help it..so the eval was on my mind on sunday when writing that post...
I dont think that called for anyone calling me selfish and being a bad mom.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:32 PM
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I dont think that called for anyone calling me selfish and being a bad mom.
I agree completely drainedwife.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:41 PM
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drained,

I am sorry you don't feel safe here. I know many share from their own experiences and many of those experiences have not turned out well for them. I also think there are many people here who have so much to offer. You just have to remember most people are looking out for you not the addict/alcoholic. As the saying goes, take what you like and leave the rest.

As for choices I agree that the addict/alcoholic makes the choice to use/drink. We can all give our loved ones choices or gifts to stop using/drinking we can do an intervention then support them through re-hab and support them through some kind of program after that but what happens when our loved ones chose not to accept any choices or gifts? That would make me feel powerless. What does your therapist say about powerless when all we do and say fails? What would the next step or plan be?
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:06 PM
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DW, I have not responded much to your threads since my situation is not similar, but I can relate to the hurt you are feeling. Sometimes, I think when a situation hits too close to home and we see things that we aren't happy about within our selves when another expresses what is going on in her life, the reaction is strong and emotional....I too believe that the basis of help in programs, especially the "anon" programs is sharing experience, strength and hope, not passing judgement. That is not what a 12 step program is about and I hope you won't equate the two.

I truly do not believe anyone meant to pass judgement...probably just reliving pain they felt or feel in their own lives and reacting. The unfortunate part of a forum is that we can not see the pain in each others eyes; we can not see the support and love...only feel it through writing. And when negative emotions take over the writing, when someone relives the pain they experienced, that can be tough and I guess things just don't come out the way they should. Everyone wants to spare you pain, not make you feel pain...but at the same time, no one walks in your shoes.

I know you are giving things thoughtful consideration...My suggestion is to try, just for a few hours if you can, to take a break from projecting what will happen, to give yourself a short vacation from worry and just breathe. I've found when my world is upside down, just breathing helps...and remembering the first person who told me that just for now all I had to do was breathe, makes me smile, for she has become a treasured Naranon friend.

I know you love your children...I know you are not a "bad" mom. You are doing the best you can in the situation you are in; a very difficult and painful situation...I am glad you have lots of support and I am praying for you and your whole family. Hugs
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:41 PM
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Shoot. I was going to try and get in here earlier and got distracted...my apologies.

What I find most helpful... both on the giving and receiving end of sharing, is to "share from the "I".

When I tell you how it was for ME, I leave any situation open for another to choose to follow my example, or to try a different way.

What I did.
How I felt.
What happened when I acted... or didn't act.

A REALLY good reminder (for me!!) is to try not to use the word "you".


Because I confess... I am a control freak. It comes from kindness.... from wanting to save another person from having to walk through the same fire I did... but when I try to control outcomes, it almost never works.

I see in your situation, DW, things I did. I can clearly remember SHOUTING both at face to face meetings and in here, why? Why do our addicts HAVE to go to Hell and back before they can get help? I was angry and beginning to feel helpless... and I stayed there for a while, trying some things that didn't work so well... having attitudes that kept me stirring around in the chaos. I would wish for you that your learning curve can be faster than mine... smile.

And you know - you haven't been here very long. I've been impressed by your willingness... even today... to come back for clarification. I admire the strength that takes. Those who've been here for a while KNOW that there have been many before you who have been less willing after only 3 short months.

You are doing exactly what you need to do today. And I definitely see you trying to keep your kids from having to experience the gut-wrenching changes YOU have already experienced due to your husband's drug use. I admire the love that is behind that effort.

I hope you can maintain your openmindedness (is that even a WORD?) and take what you like... and leave the rest (or put it on a shelf for later...smile).

((hugs))
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:01 PM
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Smile

DW, for what it's worth, I don't think you are selfish or a bad mom.

I think that maybe people are trying to prevent you from getting your hopes up too much when it comes to your Husband getting off drugs. That is because I and many others here have seen our loved ones hit bottom so many times and still go back to using.

hugs,

Lisa

Last edited by raerae6; 07-10-2007 at 09:23 PM.
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