Elana

We all can agree here how are Addicts are affecting out lives and how we are battling co dependency.. and often how similar our addiction to the addict is to that addicts addiction to drugs.

We come here and we go to meetings and we learn how to detach and make ourselves emotionally whole again.. and so we start the path of recovery after hitting our bottom.

However, another phenomena seems to occur.. the Codie Relapse of the GF, BF or spouse. I am not discussing relapse followed by forward movement in recovery. What I am discussing here is a back and forth movement with no real FORWARD movement.

Why the relapse? We say we LOOOOVVVVEEEE him/her and just cannot LEAVE, even tho this person has lied to us, used illegal drugs, abused us (or threatened to) and (in some cases) cheated on us.

And codie relapse after codie relapse there is weeping and wailing and claiming the bottom is where we are.. and then after getting comfort and good words, wounds are licked and then its "play it again, Sam!"

Why? Why would anyone tolerate the abuse?

So, here is the question...

Is the rewind and rerun played over and over because of the attention the codie gets? Is being sad and weeping the way to get ATTENTION? Is this sadness and wailing as much a codependent disease as the disease of the addict.. and is there a twisted thinking here that makes the codependent believe that, if they are weeping in a puddle of tears, it will make them attractive to the addict and to every one else? (Oh poor codie.. she/he has been soooo abused by the addict!)

Is the replay button and staying at the bottom the way to get attention because the codependent illness is so severe that it is the only way the codependent can imagine getting any sort of expression of "LOVE" directed toward them?

I do not have an answer but I think it is worth introspection and discussion.

Ann

Elana, I was one of the saddest people on earth when I was in the depths of despair over my son's addiction. Even with recovery it took me a long time to be able to make any "permanent" changes. First I had to test the waters and then see how I felt before I could test anymore.

I was sad, I was angry and I hurt all over and I needed to share with my recovery groups, here and at meetings.

I was accused of being a "drama queen", I was accused of not being willing enough to do what I needed to do, and I was accused of "needing the drama" to get my adrenaline fix every day. Those accusations almost led me to stop sharing or at least being completely honest and open about how my life was.

I needed to reach out for help, and sometimes that brought attention. I didn't need a pity party, I needed people to support me honestly and keep telling me what I needed to hear (which was not always what I wanted to hear). And I needed patience from those around me because I was a slow learner frozen in fear.

Today when I get frustrated (as codies sometimes do) when somebody in the program just isn't "getting it", when they continue to live the way they are living without any noticeable changes...I remember how it was for me, I remember the pain and the fear. And I say "Thank You God" for reminding me of where I came from, because I never want to go there again.

Hugs

cece1960

Yes.
Hows that for discussion ; )
I can only speak for myself, and becasue I've recognised the behavior in me, I'm a little better at spotting it in others.
My relationship disfunction didn't really involve substance, but my ex and I (both ex's) used to do a strange dance, that I was a very strong partner in.

The first ex would be verabaly/emotionally abusive often. It came naturally to him. I couldn't do war on his terms, but I could turn the table and be the victim. It always involved having in in my back pocket for a few weeks, which was where I was comfortable.
The second husband would simply ignore me and be gone all the time. A few rounds of pity and he would "feel for me". Exactly as I had planned.
I was VERY comfy in the victim role...besides, that MUST mean I'm strong, right? To tolerate and forgive, what a woman! This thought was carried by many of my social circle too..."Cece's" really a strong woman to put up with that...

I'm glad you brought this up because it perhaps the biggest thing I work on every day.
Its hard to undo 47 years of behavior...but I'm getting there and I've never felt better.
((((hugs))))
Cece

Elana

Ann, I cannnot begin to imagine the trauma a parent suffers with an addict child. It is beyond my comprehension.

My Queen of the Codies Mom still worries over me like I was 8 years old.. and I am considerably past that age!

My heart goes out to parents of addicts.. and I cannot imagine your pain and frustration.. and it is why I qualified my post with "GF, BF and Spouse."

I am not a parent. I THINK I know what I would do.. but OTOH I cannot say.

My gosh.. I spoil my cats rotten.. so while I think I would be a tough parent, likely hated by teenagers, I might as easily be the worlds greatest push over!

BigSis

Oh ... the DRAAMA~!

Yep. I am a drama addict. And I use present tense because I know from experience I slip back into drama seeking behavior at the drop of a hat.

I am better today than I was when I got here. But I'm not done. So I stay here.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post, Elana.


((hugs))

CatsPajamas

Ann,

I agree whole-heartedly with what you said, but I also know there was a time when I needed the attention. My A and I had a very dysfunctional relationship that thrived on chaos .... in a sick, sordid manner, I went from crisis to crisis, each more horrendous than before, and the only positive thing I got from it was the attention of my rapt audience as I shared yet another story.

I also think, in a way, that it helped to keep the focus on HIM and not on ME. After all, I was the victim

It took some recovery before I was able to see my part

CatsPajamas

Ann,

I agree whole-heartedly with what you said, but I also know there was a time when I needed the attention. My A and I had a very dysfunctional relationship that thrived on chaos .... in a sick, sordid manner, I went from crisis to crisis, each more horrendous than before, and the only positive thing I got from it was the attention of my rapt audience as I shared yet another story.

I also think, in a way, that it helped to keep the focus on HIM and not on ME. After all, I was the victim

It took some recovery before I was able to see my part... and to realize that it wasn't a major motion picture, after all.... just home movies.

Cats

CatsPajamas

OOPS that was the computer's fault, not mine...

HKAngel24

Great discussion. I am often emabressed by what I deem as my "patheticness"- the crying, the wounded expressions- I want to seem strong and impassive- in fact I want to BE strong and impassive. As if all my emotions are heightened and turned up to the loudest volume and intensity possible.

Ann- thank you for sharing. Your struggle gives me hope. Alot of what keeps me in the cycle of depression is my relentlessness on myself and what I "should" be doing. I do not know how to be gentle and so everytime I have the SAME fears that absolutely dominate me and everytime I react in the same way and feel myself slipping back into the familiar place of insanity, racing thoughts and rapid heartbeat I get more down on myself.

Honestly- I use to have a life before all of this happened- hopes and dreams and a good relationship but for the past five months it has been drama and chaos and pain and I have forgotten that life prior to this. I feel shameful at how I honestly find it hard to take responsibility for myself and believe my life is important and not low-grade. Because I am so trapped in this- in the fear of being alone or of being rejected or of finding out I truly am defective and weak- it prevents me from moving and I become insanely frustrated with myself.

rozied

VERT GOOD THOUGHT PROVOKING POST ELANA!!!

I think I might be abel to shed just a tiny bit of light on this because when I was 18 I married a Compulsive Gambler. I didn't even know what CG was at the age & knew less about the disease of addiction. Now at age 60 I once was the wife of an addict , & now I am the mother of 2 addicts!!!

When I was emmeshed in my life with my ex all I could see was I wanted him to change. I didn't know noone can change another. I really felt everyone WANTED to live a " normal " life like the life I had growing up. I thought he wanted the same things out of life I did. I used to feel sorry for him all the time & that kept me trying to make my marriage work long after I should have ended it.
The most important thing in my ending my addiction to him & the chaos we lived in was physical distance. When you are living with an addict you are much too caught up to see things clearly. Your self-esteem gets devestated by their actions. You think it is a direct reflection on you. I remember thinking if only I was prettier, or thinner he wouldn't treat me like this or he would love me enough to stop. For the longest time I thought there was somthing lacking in me. I can only see all of this by looking back. You know 20/20 hindsight.
He wound up getting into trouble with the law. He didn't want to accept the consequences of his actions so he jumped bail & went to Florida. My thinking was so warped then that I even planned to join him knowing I would have to live with an alias. What freed me was I started college right after he left. I moved into an apt over my parents with my 2 sons. I went on a self improvement campaign. I finally had time to focus on me. I lost weight & started exercising. I did really well in college & that was a real boost to my self-esteem which was really low. While he was gone I found out he was dating a topless dancer. My sister wanted to fix me up with a blind date. After I found out he was cheating on me I let her. The new guy was 6 yrs younger than I was. He fell in love with me & treated me & my sons great. By the time I saw my ex again a yr had passed & I certainly was not the same woman I was when he left. I could now see the difference in how my ex treated me compared to how my new love treated me. Both claimed to " love " me. The new man in my life, took me places, never raised his voice to me, remodeled my apt, and was always there for me. He was good to my children. There was NO chaos every other day. Life was good.
I knew then that there was nothing wrong with me. That my exs actions were his own & had nothing to do with me. That it was no reflection on me how my ex behaved. I realized I had compromised my values & practically given my ex my soul.
I don't know why women behave like that when they fall in love with an addict. I am not a psychiatrist. I only know for 10 yrs of my life I tried everything I knew to get my ex to " love " me the way I thought he was suppossed to, but no matter what I did he was still the same.
It is so easy to see now but so hard to explain even today. I tried to make my ex into someone he wasn't. I had preconcieved ideas how a man in love or a husband should act. I was not in love with him as a person I was in love with my idea of what he should be. I don't know how else to explain it.
I believe in order to be in a relationship that will last there must be unconditional love & acceptance. The key I think is to pick a partner that you know will never do anything you cannot live with.

Ann

I'm rethinking some of what I said, and I think, for me, I "needed" to be a victim, to have my victimhood validated. Only then, when I had validation for my pain could I begin to work on the solution and became a survivor.

I remember once telling a newcomer here that they weren't crazy, they were codependent. She thanked me for that because she really truly was beginning to believe that she was crazy and that none of her pain was valid.

When we reach out, no matter how emotionally, it's good to know there are people here to take our hand and help us back up.

Good thread, Elana, and good food for thought for me.

Hugs

Elana

I confess that I used to use being a victim and being sad and being in the front row at my own pity party to manipulate people.. not just my Alcoholic Husband OR my XABF.

However, the emotional cruelty and abuse at the hands of Steve, my XABF, cured me mightily.
In 2003 if Steve had asked me to, I would have married him. When I brought up this topic his words were so cruel and self centered that I swore on that day that no matter how much I loved him I would marry him the day hell froze over. He was not marriage material.

Fact is, from that day forward my trust of him was much more cautious. When we decided to find a house and move in together, he had no credit and could not come in on the actual purchase of it. I knew this and was satisfied with the situation because, after watching him handle money (or spend money.. not handle it) I did not want him part of the responsibility.

After we moved in together, HE brought up the idea of marriage and I responded in much the same way he had a few years before. I told him we did not have kids and marriage was "highly over rated." The fact of the matter was that marriage to me was all to his advantage financially, and of NO advantage to me.

There were other times when I asked hhim for comfort due to something.. one time I was very ill and I just wanted someone to be kind.. and he was anything but kind.. Fact is, he pushed me away (it wasn't a contagious illness, he just could nto be bothered). I received more comfort from my Cat!

From 2003 on I never again used self pity to garner attention or love from him, or anyone else.

I well recall the cycle of using self inflicted sorrow and pain to manipulate kind words and attention from another person. I also well recall recognizing the behavior and ceasing it (well before coming to SR.. you guys helped me in a lot of other areas tho!).

cinderellawkids

I want to add that through alanon and others Ive learned that you can still be involved with the A in your life while not letting it affect you. Its all in how you start to deal with drama, or not deal by refusing to allow it around you. But it starts by refusing to be a victim or being victimized

duet_4-8

ouch! That is exactly how I used to be, too.

duet_4-8

Mine, too. My heart goes out to the parents here in a huge way. I fight codie reactions with my grown kids every day and neither of them (so far) has an addiction issue.

duet_4-8

This was my marriage too.....I was SO wrong and it took me almost 25 years to realize it.

Lovestoomuch

Hi. My name is Kris and I WAS a validation junkie. I say was because when I first found out about my ex's addiction I NEEDED validation from people that I wasn't crazy or that I was doing the right thing and making the right choices. I'm so glad I'm past that stage of my life.

dixied

I really enjoyed this thread and did some deep soul searching. So........here's my take. I made tons of excuses for my son and his not being terribly affectionate or caring towards me. I thought if I gave him financial security he would be appreciative and love me. My son , ever since he was small, had this type of personality. For example if I said you would like to do this or that he would simply say whatever. In other words he didn't care one way or the other. For lack of a better word he flatlined on everything. He was never very appreciative. Oh but we kept on with private college, bought and GAVE him his own home. provided him with a job because we wanted him to go in the family business. He never objected although we told him if there was ever any other kind of job he preferred to just give us notice. All of this happened and he was an addict and we didn't know it.
To date we have paid for two rehabs. One was for six months. When he was released he made it on the outside for six weeks. He cashed in his dad's small insurance policy, got the money and bought crack. That did it for me. I have not spoken to him in three weeks. He developed his own "plan" refusing rehab that was offered to him. Now he is following his plan which includes workinng for min. wage, riding a bike to work, and sleeping on the floor of a recovering A's house. Last night my brother talked to him. My son went out and got a second job at a restaurant on week-ends . He is planning to give that $$$ to his wife and baby. He says he knows he can also get at least one good meal a day by working as a waiter. I have not interferred as this seems to show me reality is sinkng in. I in no way am going to call him. He knows my number. And though some here say to send him a note or encourage him i am not going to do that. My reasoning? Why the 'atta boy' praise for someone who should have been doing this all along? My line is drawn in the sand and I am not budging........sorry if it sounds hard but I can really live with this decision. I fear for him it is this way or the grave, or jail for him. So if he fails on his own we will offer rehab....nothing more...............dixie

marle

I just wanted my daughter to love me and feeling very unlovable unless I gave and gave and gave was what kept me going for a long time. I did not start out to be a drama queen and I have never been big on the pity party, but I found that in a strange way I became hooked on that too when I was dealing with my AD. I think it sneaks up on you and before you know it you are in way too deep. I never had a lot of patience with people who cried and cried and never made changes until I went through it with my daughter. Now I know how very difficult it is to extricate oneself from that kind of a relationship. So I have more compassion and I also believe that people who come here looking for help really do want to change. It just takes some longer than others, but having been on here for a year and a half, I have seen changes in everyone. It takes what it takes. Hugs, Marle

rozied

Jen, It took me 10yrs & during that 10 yrs I must have left him 10+ times, divorced him & even remarried him. I was certainly a glutton for punishment.
Dixied, I don't think you're hard at all. I think you tried very hard & nothing worked. You have had enough & you know your son better than most people. I feel the same way about my 40 yr old son now myself. If he wants to get better he will have to do it by himself. Nothing we did ever helped & believe me we tried it all except detaching or cutting him loose.