his first meltdown...
 

It's been coming; I've seen the signs for a few days.
He's not been able to *hear* anything that's even slightly different from his view. It's seen as a cut down or a "lack of respect."

Tell me something. Do all addicts have an issue concerning respect? Oh, it's not the kind of respect I think of. It's the kind that is unquestioned acceptance of his views on any and all issues. Any disagreement is seen as disrespect. Any thought of the self, without reference to him, is seen as disrespect. Indeed, he likes Muslim women because they are raised to "respect the man" and to follow his direction! His wife for money was a Muslim. She divorced him....and didn't pay him either! :rolleyes2

Anyway, it's been coming for a few days. Today, he got home before me. He got a ride. He has no key. He was locked out. That was done purposefully. And until I feel comfortable, he will have no key. My house, my rule.

I got home, and let him in. His day to mow the lawn. I asked if it would bother him if I went and met my friends for a drink. He said ok; no problem. I went and had three beers, and came home to make dinner.

He met me with a story about how he intentionally intimidated the thief living behind me; my tenant from hell that my neighbor took in. He was staring him down. Then, deliberately broke a stick on a tree, to make a cracking sound, like a gun going off. He laughed that the theif jumped out of his skin.

I was pissed off, for sure. I've told him REPEATEDLY that this is NONE of his business. Trevor continued on, saying he knew how far he could go. And I told him to SHUT UP and to STAY OUT OF IT! Yea, it got to me. I do NOT need more shyte from that shmuck or the wh*re who took him in.

Well, he flew off the handle. I don't "respect" him...blah, blah, blah.... I told him he could leave any time he didn't like it. Yes, I was triggered. :no:

I called his dad and told him to speak to him, repeating that he can leave. Trevor went on about how I was screaming at him....that I was drunk....he was crying.....blah, blah, blah....this was 14 years ago repeated. But, the difference was, I wasn't playing into it. No more.

I spoke to his dad again, more calmed down now that there had been a break from his outburst. I let him know I'm NOT getting into anything with him. That Trevor has a choice to follow simple rules or leave. Period.

Sorry to go on like this. Oh, my, I do NOT miss this drama at all. He's manic. I'm tired. I know there will be more. He still refuses to get medicated for his bipolar condition. He does have a psych doc appt coming up, though. Thank G*D! I can't take too much of this.

Thanks for listening. I don't have too much room for this stuff anymore. I don't mind helping him get his feet on the ground. And he's done well. But, I will not take this garbage. I don't need the drama anymore. I'm tooooo tired of it. I hope he gets the message and gets the help he needs soon. Cuz, I'm not in for too much more of this. I will no longer be his "object of his anger" or his whipping boy. I'm done.

Shalom!

And believe me, I do feel for him about his friend dying. I do know he's going through a lot now, trying to get clean. And I found out why he was in the mental hospital for so long. He stuck himself with a HIV infected needle. So, he has this to worry about now too. This happened before he knew about his friend's death. He's got a lot on his plate.

But, I still can't take his blown out attacks cuz he's manic!

And unfortunately, his dad played into it for so many years, Trevor has learned that he can do that and get his way. Since his dad is no longer giving in to him, (he can't take Trevor to live with him; he lives out of state, and Trevor can't leave the state. Besides, he had a heart attack, and can't handle the stress anymore.), Trevor is pulling out the stops it seems, to try and make things like they were. He really didn't expect to still be here now, I know. But, it's here or the streets again now. There is no where else.

And now, I guess I'm rambling. I'm tired. I'm sorry. I don't get much sleep lately, as he's up most of the night. He was so tired last night, he was hallucinating. It was bad. So, I've been very stressed out. And tired. So, thanks again for listening. :e058:

Shalom!

Hey Teach... ((((hugs)))) real, gentle, loving ones.

What I know is that you are right... about how you want your life, about how you deserve to have your own rules...absolutely right.

What *I* heard in your story about the intimidation of the neighbor, was that Trevor "might" be trying to express loyalty in his own, twisted way.... yeah, he got a kick out of scaring the guy. But this guy HURT his mom. Even if you two aren't REAL close, that is an insult and at his age... those sorts of insults are big.

The issues concerning respect? All about that "hole in the middle", I think. I don't find it easy to respect authority... never have. I STILL struggle... but my awareness is much greater than it was 3 years ago.

And I have 3 years of solid recovery, over 22 years of sobriety, and 30 more years of maturity than Trevor....

I hope the psych appointment helps. And I wish he could live somewhere other than your home... that distance helps, too.

(((hugs)))

Perhaps he was trying to scare off the guy who lives behind you because he was trying to protect you which he hadn't been able to do before as he was inside? And then didn't know what to do when you rejected his crude attempts by telling him to shut up and stay out of it?

I know it's hard, Teach, to translate what they are acting into what they really mean. For you and him both.

wow Teach.
I don't know what to say.
You have a lot on your plate too...
Hang in there, and TRY to take care of you.
I know this has to be really hard on you, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time.
BIG, BIG, HUGS!!!!!
Michelle

Regardless of his motives, it would be good for him to listen to you and abide by the rules of your home.

He's struggling with his sobreity and you're overloaded with other family matters as well as caring for him...it's a dangerous combination and I think a break or a good rest would help.

Sending big hugs and lotsa prayers because this is going to be hard on both of you until he finds a better place to live.

Hugs

just sounds like to me, maybe his drug use has slow down his growth of maturity. they say that an addict will stop maturing normally at the time that they become addicted. i do understand the disrespect thing, i think. must be something common with addicts or something like that. when i husband was coming up to his last relapse here, all he ranted about to me and anyone else who would listen, was the fact that i am so disrespectful toward him. i mean he relapsed, didn't come home, or go to work, spent hundreds of dollars, known cheater while getting high and all he could think to do was complain about how i was sooooooooo disrespectful toward him and that was his reason for moving out, he said that he couldn't take me disrespecting him any longer. i think that he's been active since. i think that its just an excuse to use and have someone else to blame for it.

i'm glad that he gets to see his doctor soon, hope that helps. i think that you deserve to continue to have a break from all of his drama, you've already been through so much with this and you've already given so much of yourself to this, time for you to do just what you're doing, thinking about you and your needs. your house, your rules, sounds like just what he needs to know and follow, if he really wants a place to stay.JMHO

The goal remains to get into a rehab.
And none of this would be happening if the judge hadn't taken him OUT of the rehab he was in before! I know, water under the bridge. But, Trevor HAD found a way before....

Anyway, I do think you're right, BigSis and Minnie, about his attempts to "protect" me. I've known that for a long time. But, he's not doing what he thinks he's doing. He's harrassing the jerk. And I don't need any issues there. She's a shrink, and knows the laws to get Trev locked up as a danger to self or others. And I KNOW I can't trust her! So, I hear ya, but, he's not helping anyone, and he needs to hear these facts.

BigSis, I hear the respect issue. And Teke, I hear you too about the slowed maturity. I have no doubt about it actually. I just wish he would understand what respect really is.... :no:

Ladybug, thank you...I am trying to take care of me. I called my own counselor today to talk to her, as I missed my appt last week. I'm waiting to hear from her.

Ann... Thank you too.... I just hope a rehab opens up soon. Since he's on methadone, there's only two places in RI that will take him, and only one of them is long term....so...it could be a while. And yes, he does need to learn simple rules. Sadly, at 27, he still does...

G*D grant me the serenity... :wink3:
It's my favorite prayer.

Shalom!

Just sending my thoughts and good wishes your way!
Good for you for standing up like that, it must have been so hard!
I hope you get a little peace now.
Keep up the good work and good luck!

Teach, I think it is very hard to respect other people when you have no respect for yourself. That is so common with addicts. They can't possibly respect themselves because to do so would mean that they could not do to themselves the things they do. Trevor needs medication. If he loved and respected himself he would be doing the right thing and taking the medication. You have so much to deal with, with both the addiction and the mental health issue. I pray that you can find some peace for yourself yet I know that must be really hard right now. Sending some big hugs, Marle

Thank you, OBS...
And Marle, I appreciate your thoughts too.

And a question came to mind. Just how do we teach someone what respect really is. I mean, if they didn't learn it when they were young, how do I begin the lessons about what respect is, and what it "looks like" now? How to apply it to the self now, after so long? How to show it to others? More?
Thoughts appreciated.

Shalom!

Oh Teach, I went through a similar thing just a few days ago, hours before my son went back to jail.
He kept making excuses for his behavior! Every instance of him taking drugs is because...
The disrespect was really becoming a problem. I would continually ask him to stop doing something and he would laugh at me!
It's so darn sad that they can't see through the blurred vision of addiction to see into the future and realize what this behavior brings. Jail, homelessness, friendlessness dispair and hoplessness.
Fortunately, there is hope out there for them. There really is hope for them. It's just a darn shame they have to go through all this, (and bring us down with them) before the;re eyes are opened.

I think that you showed Trevor how to respect himself. He just has to find a way to do it. Your lessons are not forgotten but it is his life to do what he wants with. I know that the older I get, the more I find myself seeing that the lessons my parents taught me about life when I was growing up, I am putting into practice in my own life. Trevor is still young and still learning what it means to have to take responsibility for himself. I remember my mother telling me that men don't really grow up until they are 40:) Don't know if that is true, but it fit my dad. Hugs, Marle

I hope you and trevor will find your way to that bonding area that parents and children should have you both deserve it, it's been a long battle for you and him

Hi teach. I agree.. this has been going on too long. You did nothing wrong and you have kept out of HIS business so he needs to keep out of yours.

I hear the frustration in your post at both your son and yourself.

I am sending you warm hugs and letting you know it is OK to take a big deep breath and do something quiet for yourself.

Teach,

Great replies before me.
I've come to the conclusion concerning my own son...
He just doesn't know how to act. Plain and simple.
I don't get it either. How do you just forget everything your parents
taught you about how to act? Aaarrrrggggg! I'm feelin' nasty right along with ya, sweetie.
Hugs, support, and prayers to you tonight.

sending hugs & prayers for you & prayers for trevor as always.

My daughter has been clean for over 2 years, Teach... and she is conciously trying to gain some ground with that lost maturity. In part, because the addict SHE chose to marry has his emotional devleopment arrested at about age nine... no exaggeration (I've never seen a grown man do some of the antics he does).

Anyway - so SHE has an example in front of her (constantly) of someone with even LESS maturity than herself. That helps... puts her much more into "our" camp (the adults).

She and I have discussed her husband and some of his emotional (lack of) growth issues. I think AA meetings would help him because so many of those old-timers "get" the immaturity, and make some tough demands on their sponsees... in part, just to get them to make choices that are right, but not fun... get a job, get to work on time, see their part in conflicts, accept responsibility. That is what *I* hear from the AA folks I hang with.

But my son in law needs to decide for himself that meetings will help him... he believes that since he is sober, he doesn't need them. But I think his time is coming. Life is getting too hard, and he has no idea how to handle it.

I don't think 12-step programs are the ONLY way to do anything. I know from my own experience, there are other ways to get sober... but I also know from my own experience that the emotional and spiritual growth I've experienced in the past three years has been bigger than at any other time I can remember.

Twenty-seven is a good age for this, Teach. He has been through a lot, and experienced so little... smile. I know at that age, lots of young adults are trying to put aside those roaring twenties and step fully into adulthood. And Trevor is no different in that they mostly don't know exactly how to do that.

I wish him the best, Teach. And you too.... (((hugs)))

Teach, I'm so sorry you are facing more stress. I hope that in time he will learn that respect is earned by showing respect.

A gentleman in my Naranon group who is also 25 years clean and sober often says the drugs are just a symptom of the disease....To me what Trevor is doing seems to illustrate this. I hope things settle down soon. Hugs and prayers; please get some rest.

Well, I did get a great night's sleep last night, thank goodness!
That means Trevor slept through too. :wink3:

Trevor is going to meetings, but, not enough. He was supposed to go to a meeting yesterday. But, he was afraid to hang in the city. Wednesday is his day off. So, he had made an agenda of things to do, but, he finished an hour before the meeting. Since he was feeling squirrelly, he went home. Of course, he couldn't get into the house, cuz he doesn't have a key. So, many things went wrong for him yesterday. Then, the tenant from hell showed up, and it went down hill from there. :(

I'm glad he knew he couldn't hang in the city. I don't know what we're going to do about this, until he gets a car. (I am NOT going to supply him with one.) He's dependant upon me, and I know that's driving him nuts too. (as it is me!) But, he has Wednesday off; has to be in the city, cuz he has to get his methadone, and no bus goes to my home in the boondocks in Warren -- he was lucky to get a ride yesterday. So, we are up the creek without a paddle.

And I know all this adds up to his lack of self respect too. The rewards of being clean are slow coming. And it doesn't help that his father promised him a car and then gave it away to his own brother. I'm sure he's feeling worth-less.

And that's why I'm wondering how to get him to feel some self respect. That will help him get over the hump, until the external rewards begin to add up to something again.

Tonight is the Jr/Sr prom. I have to go. We've decided he will go to a meeting while I"m there. And I'll leave the prom early. It's difficult. But, as long as he's trying, I'm willing to work with him.

Thanks again for your good will and support. It's so good to be able to come here and vent my spleen when I need to! :wink3:

Shalom!

Hi Teach,
How true this statement is!
We have the same situation around these parts, with both sons being sober.
The youngest is doing very well, very resourceful, and finds a job pretty quick.

Now the oldest, he has his own business, and it takes a while to build up a clientele.

It takes alot of patience, on my part, son seems pretty secure in doing things one step at a time...THIS time.

When I look at your situation with Trevor, I think you're too close to the action. IMO, it appears to have a lot of control issues between the two of you.
That's why I think, it would be SO good if he was living elsewhere.

It kind of reminds me of having a new puppy, and watching them all the time, because you have the feeling they'll get into something.
Believe me, I know the feeling.

My oldest is not attending meetings consistantly, (drives me crazy.....) and I find myself suggesting it on occasion, and I know it's not my business.
If he lived here, it wouldn't work out for the both of us, because I lean towards controlling, even though I try hard NOT to.

Is it possible to find a sober house?

hugs Teach,
I know how hard this is.

Oh HT I truly feel for you. It is very hard helping young adults make up lost ground due to mistakes in their past.................plus you have the added issues of the addiction and mental health issues. I am very glad your son is in recovery. As far as teaching him respect, I think the only way is by example.
The rewards of living by the book are many but you are so right they are a long time coming.
My SS made some mistakes in his 20's & now at 33 & a single parent has made great strides in maturing but as you said the rewards take time to come. Naturally when they are doing the right thing & trying very hard you want to help, I am in the same position, but it does get tiring, plus their problems are not the only ones we are dealing with. My AS is back in jail & at this point I don't even want to know why, I am just too tired myself.
I guess we take it one day at a time & hopefully things do get easier eventually ( I too am wondering WHEN??? )
Love & Prayers,
Diane

((( teach )))

Perhaps you and Trevor can discuss what "respect" means to each of you. I had a similar conversation not too long ago when a friend told me he didn't think I was being supportive of him in a particular situation. I asked him to tell me what my being supportive looked like to him, and then I told him what it looked like to me. (mars and venus rise again :) )

You have a LOT on your plate right now. Dr. Cats recommends a vacation .... perhaps to a secluded island with some good friends in recovery.

HUGS

Cats

Sending hugs and prayers to you and Trevor.

Hugs,
Jewel

hugs, teach - to you and trevor. it's a selfish disease. blessings, k

Teach,

You do have a lot on your plate right now, so first order of business is to take healthy care of yourself, the best you can, anyway.

You asked the question of how do you teach respect? Well, the only way I've been able to do that, or at least the only way I know to attempt it, is by setting boundaries. My daughters (addicted and non-addicted) know what will and won't fly with mama. I used to be scared to set those boundaries. Who knows why. Probably insecurity...yeah, that's it. But now, I teach respect by demanding it for myself. Wait, maybe "demanding" is too strong of a word, but I do require it.

A woman with long term recovery in both programs taught me this little saying, "Be what you want others to be." In other words, model and teach behavior I want by doing it myself. To me that means setting boundaries as to what I'll tolerate. I try to model respect for them. But I know, Trevor wants to "quack" and say you aren't doing it. That when I'd whip out the phrase, "I'm sorry you feel that way." Can't tell you how many times I've used that with my AD.

And I know you are dealing with the manic issue, Teach. I hate that for you. But Trevor being manic doesn't mean he can't grasp the concept of respect. And like someone else said, remember, you are dealing with a 27 yr old who has the emotional maturity of the age at which he started using. So you might be looking at a 27 yr old, but inside he's a 16 yr old or what age is correct.

I, like Moose, sure wish you didn't have to have him in your home. I know you feel like this is your only choice. I'm just praying a sober house or rehab comes available and SOON. I just know I DO NOT do well when I am having to live up close and personal with either one of my daughters. I know my HP did me a huge favor by putting both of them out of town.

Hang in there, Teach. Sometimes it's one hour at a time.

Hugs,
Hangin' In

I think respect means something different for everyone.
I know my AH wants respect but doesn't command respect. His behavior doesn't command it neither does the way in which he communicates his feelings.

I believe respect is earned. I don't know if addicts think the same way. Even some non-addicts expect instant respect. That's not how the world works. I think people are afforded a certain amount of general respect to start off with but the rest has to be earned.

It's hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes. You are face to face with Trevor everyday now, again. Old feelings of what used to be plus the new feelings you are developing must be melding together....it's hard not to react to his actions. There seems to be a definite break in communication because you are both trying to protect each other but neither of you were aware of each others intentions at the time.

I'm glad you were able to get some shut eye. It's harder to function on no sleep. I've been there.