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this is how my ah is thinking.....he doesnt "get it"

Old 05-03-2007, 02:22 PM
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this is how my ah is thinking.....he doesnt "get it"

He says it is ridiculous that he cant stop using. he says he uses because he wants to use when he wants to "escape" because he feels so unloved by everyone, or very stressed at work, or if we are not getting along..thats when he uses....they are all EXCUSES to use.....if he could stop then why is he risking everything.....?? he says because he reaches a point when he just doesnt care about anything.

he says that in the past if he said he stopped and then weeks later did use, it was because of the above reasons i mentioned..why does he think that is normal?
If im uspet or depresed, i dont go to a drug dealer, but coke, come home and snort it...and he doesnt think its much different than alcohol....escaping lifes stresses by drinking...well, he has a point there! alcohol is a drug too!

i told him, lets bring up this exact converstion with our therapist and see what she says..i feel so bad that he just doesnt see it...its very sad...

Even if he can control his use, THATS A PROBLEM IN OUR MARRIGE THAT I DO NOT WANT!! i dont want any drugs in our lives!!!
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:32 PM
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AT least he's admitting to using because he wants too. ANd I believe he's being honest. As long as he thinks theres nothing wrong with that he will not stop not for anything.

Even after leaving rehab, running for 2 months and going to jail, my AH said he used because he wanted too. Then he said he no longer wanted too. I do believe that.

he says that in the past if he said he stopped and then weeks later did use, it was because of the above reasons i mentioned
He said this too, although I still do not believe it, he lives in a time warp and early last week he thinks of as months ago, years even.
Today he's lost his family and everything he ever wanted and by now Im sure sitting in ahouse with no power, money or food. I know without a doubt he never wanted it to get here and never thought it would.

You have to stand up for the life you want for you and your kids no matter wherre that leaves him, but understand that he has a choice too. Sadly we cannnot change anyone.
I never thought in a million years my AH and I wouldnt be together, or that it would go this far, I never thought Id ever make him go, but I had to start making decisions thinking of my children and its been so hard, still today I hope he gets into recovery but Im accepted more and more taht may never happen, and if its not long term I want nothing to do with it.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:13 PM
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my husband used the same excuses and so did i when i was using. thats all it is to me too, excuses. i think that its up to you to stand strong in the set boundaries and follow through, you can't stop him but you can stop how his using is effecting you, your choice.

yes his feelings may be valid to him but there is still not enough to use over. drugs only magnify the problem to all involved. sorry that you are going through all of this, but it is his choice. you have to do what it takes for you to live the life you want with or without him. keeping you and him in my prayers.

its called addictive stinking thinking i believe.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:33 PM
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I would suggest that you look at all the ways he's able to use.........and still keep his life together............then figure out just how much of it is because You or someone else is helping him/enabling him................then stop if you can so he can begin to feel and see for himself the effects of his drug use...............maybe then he can seek help

a starting place would be the .........come home and snorting part..........maybe set a limit right there and tell him no drugs in the house.......
Plus, theres a good change he does get it........but if he admits it he'd need to make changes and it doesnt sound like he's ready or willing so a good place for you to start is by making changes in the area you can control YOU!
..just my opinion.
good luck to you!!
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:47 PM
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i beleive he is being honest too...

i think that my ah thinks he can stop..and maybe he can..but there is not enough reason too for him i guess.....hes using because he wants to use...but i dont want that in my house and in my marriage..he knows that yet he continues...why?
i believe he is being honest when he says he thinks that a warm, loving home will help him to stop using.....but will it? maybe it will help, but if someting goes wrong, will he just use again?? also, why do other people NOT turn to drugs...illegal drugs no less.....when they are depressed? Why does he??? Why doesnt he know better ways to cope???? like NORMAL people? If i felt so low that i wanted to die...i still wold not turn to drugs....i look at my kids and would never ever put them through the hell that drugs brings... my ah is not ready to do whatever it takes to stop using....and i dont think he ever will..he doesnt even like going to a therapist because he thinks by going, it will make him feel bad...well sometimes in life you have to really look at yourself....look at yourself in the mirror, and yes, you may feel bad...but thats sometimes what it takes to get to the place you want to be......

if anyone has any advice as to how i can get strong..get to the place where i am willing to fight for the life that i want and deserve.. a drug free happy life....
i know how hard it is not to worry about my husband and where that woul dleave him if i were to decide that i have to leave him....and i dont know how just yet to do that without looking back and feeling horrible..... he is a good provider, and can be a good person....but i guess what it takes is loving myself enough ...
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:54 PM
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((((drained)))) ,
I'm so sorry you're still going through this. At least you are clear on the life you want -- some people never even get to that point, they just keep giving in forever, forever confused and

I didn't start getting better until I went for a few times to a therapist ALONE. First I went with my X, thinking that's where the problem was. When it went on and on and nothing changed except what he was whining about (same stuff you mention -- SAME STUFF WE ALL GO THROUGH AND WE DON"T TURN TO ILLEGAL DRUGS....) I started going alone because I wanted to find the strength to stand up for myself.

I did, and life is about a thousand times better now than then. I had to make it about me and my family, and stop fluttering around an addict expecting them to think clearly and change their behavior. I wasted 7 years with that, and would've wasted 7 more if I hadn't gotten some help for ME AND JUST FOR ME.

Hoping that life becomes clearer and stronger for you

Love,
GL
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:24 PM
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THere is no rhyme or reason for an addict to use. The might say "i'm depressed" or I'm lonely" or "I'm bored" just as easily as can say "The sky is blue today" or "i heard my favourite song" It's all just an excuse. Wah wah wah. What a bunch of cr*p.
The answer is NO the rest of the world doesn't rush out and buy an eightball every time they get a freakin' hangnail or whatever. The estimated percentage of drug addicts (I am not addressing alcoholics here or binge drinkers) is less than 6% of the population. Therefore the statement that a lot of addicts say in their defense "Most people use something" is false, and proven by scientific data. And the old garbage about "Alcohol is a drug" or "caffeine is a drug" is a bunch of crap too. A) they are legal, and many people can have one glass of wine or a mocha double latte and not go out and rob a store to get another.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by drainedwife View Post
i believe he is being honest when he says he thinks that a warm, loving home will help him to stop using.....but will it?
Drained...I'm sorry you're going thru this too. I went thru it. I know how hard it is. Addiction is just so horrible and so hard to understand from the outside looking in. Addiction is a disease...its not a choice...Yes, the addict 'chose' to do drugs in the beginning for whatever reason...but after addiction sets in, its NOT a choice. Everything in the world could be 'perfect' but in an addict's mind, there will always be a reason to use. The addict HAS to use because they are sick. Drugs are the only things that make things better in their mind. Those of us who aren't addicted can see how destructive they are but the addict can't. Their perception of the world around them is altered by drugs. That's why addiction is a disease...its a form of mental illness. I don't care if the mental health professionals refuse to acknowledge this fact. I know its a disease and anyone who's had to live with an addict knows it too.

There is NOTHING you can do or say to make things better for him. Well...maybe there is one thing you can do...don't enable him. Don't provide him with a warm, loving home that he can come home to and use drugs. He can't and shouldn't have it both ways. To say that he needs a nice home life to quit using drugs is like putting the cart before the horse. It doesn't work that way. His recovery has to come before anything else. There aren't any changes you can make in yourself or your home that will make him want to quit. The desire has to come from inside him somewhere or else it will never work. It just won't.

You can't change anything about what he is doing. You don't have that type of power...heck, he doesn't even have that type of power and its HIS life. THe only thing you can do is start making decisions that are in the best interest of you and your children. Let him figure this out on his own...Its the only way. I'm not saying its easy. Its not. But you see the insanity and you have a desire to change things and thats a HUGE step in the right direction. Keep going. Keep searching for answers for YOURSELF...and eventually, you'll find your way out of this situation. You have alot of people here who will support you and encourage you when you need it.

Hugs from one (ex) wife of an addict to another.
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Old 05-04-2007, 05:38 AM
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Oh my Drained Wife, what a lovely story he tells. Shame, life is tough on him - so he uses.

I tried that scenario for many years, but actually the using was what made things so tough. Good coke head logic.
Step 2 talks of insanity. Well he displays it clearly. I identify so strongly with his story - that was me saying that a while ago.ADDICT!!!!!!

Thanks to HP that I recognise that as insanity now.

So he wants to use - and will continue until the pain of using gets too much.

But you can start your own recovery now! I am an addict, so others more qualified have given advice as partners of addicts BUT
To use is illegal. And you have kids in the house. So that is a easy bounday. Illigal activity can be reported.

He is not going to change right now. I hear that in his attitude.
But you have a choice. He only think he does.
Do what is best for you.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:19 AM
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He says it is ridiculous that he cant stop using. he says he uses because he wants to use when he wants to "escape" because he feels so unloved by everyone, or very stressed at work, or if we are not getting along..thats when he uses....they are all EXCUSES to use.....if he could stop then why is he risking everything.....?? he says because he reaches a point when he just doesnt care about anything.
He is an addict. He uses because he is addicted. No other reason.

You might ask yourself why your focus is so entirely on him and his using? What would happen if you stopped talking to him about his use, stopped controlling where he goes and when he goes. Separated your money (to protect yourself!) and let him spend all of his on drugs. Moved into the second bedroom and went about your business.... refused to talk to him when he is high... what would happen?

Some folks use those techniques to "outwait" the addiction. Some do it in their marital home, others choose to separate without a divorce while waiting for sobriety.

Just some ideas .... ((hugs))
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:28 AM
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i agree with bigsis on this one. folks come up with many ways to rationalize using. the truth is - they use because they have the disease. blessings, k
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:48 AM
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Got one thing to say.....No addict has ever woken up on a sunny day, in a comfortable bed, with the smell of coffee & breakfast cooking in the kitchen, with a roof over his head & all the "comforts" he needs & says....."I think I'll get clean & sober today."

I have never seen an addict get clean until the pain of using was worse than the pain of stopping.

Lynne
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:23 PM
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to bigsis

I think it would be easier for me to do all that..move into a second bedroom...which we dont have,....but he was sleeping downstairs and that was fine with me...then he moved back not our bedroom...i need to "detach" from him in that way...and i can do it...but then he talks his way back into my good side.
I know he used last night and im pissed about it because here he is writing me a long email...seeming like he wants to stop and work on our problems...and then bam!
He stays up last night....sleeps most of the day today...doesnt go to work...(thats 2x this week). He was even sleeping during my daughters birthday party when her friends were over...also , there was a tiny bit of white powder esidue on teh kitchen counter....he's unbelievable.
I cant keep my money seperate from his and let him use his money to buy drugs because we count on his paycheck to pay the bills. I dont make alot of money and what i do make also helps pay the bills. I also have been having a hard time working full-time and Ive decided to ask for part time hours. I need the time to go to meetings and take care of me..i am so stressed out all the time, and also, the kids need me after school....i think i jumped into working full-time too soon, and someday i may not have a choice..but right now i do.

Anyway, i guess if I said something to my ah about me knowing he used last night...it wouldnt matter..he would just deny it. Also, i would have to be ready to back-up the consequences.
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:47 PM
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(((((DrainedWife)))))

Have you read, "Codependent, No More" by Melodie Beattie?
It's a great book and I think it will help out in your situation.
Sending prayers to you and your family tonight.
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Old 05-05-2007, 03:54 AM
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There is nothing anyone can do or say to stop an addict from using. They use until they have had enough of drugs & the consequences of using ( alienation from family & friends, no place to live, no money, jail time etc )
Someone here said this once " Take a hula hoop & put it on from your head and let it down to your feet...........what is inside the circle you can control, anything outside of it you cannot.
IMHO, You will leave or end it when you have had enough......enough of living with an addict and all the consequences that go along with it. Until you have had enough of it you will stay.
Noone can control anyone but themselves...............that is really all there is to it.
I wil pray for you & your family.
Love,
Diane
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Old 05-05-2007, 06:30 AM
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Drained -

We haven't met but when I read your post I could really understand all that you are saying. I have said all of those same words myself. The main sentence that you said that reasonated with me was the last one in your original post "i dont want any drugs in our lives!!!"

Once I realized that I really meant that sentence then things began to change for me. I began to change that thought to "I won't have any drugs in my life". The wanting it was over for me. It was time for the having. What had to change in the mixture was me. My RAH wasn't going to stop what he was doing - it was working for him on some crazy level. He was very very very sick (20 year history of crack) and just was unable to think straight - even when he wasn't high. His drug use was just a symptom - as they say - of the soul sickness that he had developed. He used for all of those same reasons as your husband. I set the bottom line of "no drugs or alcohol" but I also knew that I was possibly chosing life without my active addict. Oh well. I realized that I was sinking with the ship and I was going to drown if I didn't jump off. It meant a lot of learning to stand on my own two feet but it was clear in my words, tones, attitude that I meant what I said when I said "I love you, but I will no longer live in a home or a relationship where there is any alterring substance ingested at any time and these are the consequences". It took some work to get to that point but I finally began to value myself enough to realize that I was entitled to that. It took the auspices of change off of him and put it onto me. I felt so empowered when I was able to finally say that and MEAN it. Life became a whole lot less easy and comfortable for my addict. Luckily, he had hit enough bottoms that he saw the writing on the wall. He made the choice to get into recovery. He now has 22 months w/o any substance abuse of any kind. He didn't recover for me - he recovered because his life wasn't going to work for him anymore if he kept using. We split up 15 years ago over this same thing before he returned for the 2nd go-round. The first time I said "no drugs in a relationship with me" he chose to continue the drug use. He just wasn't done. When he showed back up he lied his way back into my heart. Once I wised up I was fully involved with him and interwined.

This forum really has helped me to grow - as have face to face meetings. I'm glad that you are posting. The more I focused on me and my actions the better it all came together for me. I can't change anyone else but myself.....dang it!!!!!!!!!

Always a codie at heart! Love, Donna
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Old 05-05-2007, 07:50 AM
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Nothing to add to all the wonderful ESH shared here but hugs and prayers and support. I hope you find your way to some peace despite his use and that he can find the path to recovery as well.
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Old 05-05-2007, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by drainedwife View Post
Anyway, i guess if I said something to my ah about me knowing he used last night...it wouldnt matter..he would just deny it. Also, i would have to be ready to back-up the consequences.
Sadly, these statements are true, wife. I don't really have any advice; only you can decide what to do. But you do absolutely have to be ready to follow up your words with the consequences you promise. If you don't follow through, he will be worse than the little child who is threatened again and again with punishment that never comes.

I told my exAH many, many times over the years that if he didn't stop using then we were done. But I never followed through until this time. O, I left him a few times but I never had any sort of plan and ended up going back because the status quo felt somehow safer than the unknown.

It hasn't been exactly easy this time, because he has pulled out some pretty hurtful, manipulative stuff over the last 9 weeks. Things I never would have thought even he would do or say. (I also wouldn't have thought he could still hurt me like he can by the things he says and does; I thought I was beyond being hurt by him).

Just hang in there and look at your options; start with a plan, figure out how you can get there from here and how long it will take. Then start doing it. Baby steps. You don't have to do anything in the end, but at least you will have a choice, and that in itself is empowering to us who lived for so long thinking we did not have one.

((((HUGS)))
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Old 05-05-2007, 01:32 PM
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Praying for you, drainedwife. I know this is a difficult time for you.

I know it's stressful to think about, but when you have a clear day it is important that you start figuring out what you're going to do when he loses his job. And if he's so careless as to leave his **** on various household surfaces, what you're going to do when your kids get into it eventually. And what you're going to do if ever the drugs are found in your house by the police, child protection, or anyone else.

Sorry to sound so negative, but the fact is that he is slowly dragging you and your children toward the edge of his cliff, and you will go over with him. You can let him do this, or you can change your priorities and save yourselves. YOU are responsible for making sure he doesn't do this to you. Meetings are helpful but having a plan for when his disease starts destroying lives besides his own is priceless. You cannot count on an addict to do the right thing. Love does NOT conquer all, when it comes to addiction.

Take good care and remember to love yourself.
((((hugs))))
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Old 05-05-2007, 06:29 PM
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Wait a second, you said their was residue on the counter? He's using in the house? You have children? That would be my boundary. NO using in the house!! It was bad enough my ex was using, but I would NOT allow it in the house. You do know that if something happens, & cops or children services find out he's using in the house...you lose your kids???

Lynne
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