It's been awhile, I'm back again/AD on methadone
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: northeast
Posts: 12
It's been awhile, I'm back again/AD on methadone
Hello, I have not posted in a long time. I believe the last time I posted was last summer or fall. My AD was pregnant. Well, through my own extensive research I had discovered that the baby was more in danger by going through opiate withdrawal. And, it seemd the only option was to go the methadone route. I was always anti-methaadone, as I had worked in a rehab. We were dead set against methadone. Of course, I never dealt with a pregnant addict. So, I was clueless. I was the one that even approached my daughter about trying methadone. She was more than willing to go the clinic. When we went to her OB, she was very supportive and agreed that the methadone was the best route for my daughter. She was so proud of my daughter for coming forward and admitting her opiate use while pregnant. The plan was after she had the baby, her OB dr. would wean her off the methadone. As, my daughter did not want be on it much longer and was glad to not have to go to the clinic early in the morning. She even quit the methadone early. (She sold her last script - yeah, I know not what one in recovery should do) I really ripped into her about selling her methadone.
She didn't admit to doing that until several weeks ago.
Her darling baby is now three months old. Thank god, he had no complications from her use. I started suspecting about 2 months ago that she was using, again. I should have known that she was - because everytime I suspect, then she "is using". That little voice inside of me is always, right. But, after awhile, I thought that I needed to lighten up. And, perhaps that I was too untrusting. Then, I discovered that she stole $50 out of my wallet, then I knew. There was no denying it. Of course, she denied taking it. But, I knew for a fact that she took it. My husband had just given me $250 and I went nowhere. The money was in my wallet and nobody was in the house but her. I was sick and cried, cried, and cried. I didn't know what to do. I did not feel well enough to take care of her baby on a 24 hr. basis, while she went into rehab. And, she was still denying her use. Also, she was starting school in a few days. Then, a few days later, she told me that she made arrangements to go to the clinic again. And, told me how she started using about two weeks, after the baby came home. After selling her methadone, she was getting sick a few days later, and then went out to use. She stated that she was only using to keep from getting sick and not to get high.
Now, I am really on the fence about her using the methadone. When she was pregnant, it was a different situation. If she had weaned properly, she should not have been getting sick. I believe she was down to 5 mg a day. If she was getting sick, after selling them why could she not just go back to the clinic and start at that dose. But, she brought herself up to 80 mg of oxy's a day. She was on that amount for about two months. When she gets to the clinic, they started her at 35 and now have her up to 60. I don't understand why she can't be weaning down and getting off of it. It kind of makes me wonder if it's about money - them keeping her at a higher dose. I know 60 is not a high dose, but she was down to 5 and functioning well. One problem is that the clinic doses from 5-10:00am throughout the week. And 6-8:30 am on saturday, and 6-7:30am on Sunday's. When she was first going to the clinic, her car was inoperable, and I had to go there every morning and watch the baby while she took my car to the clinic. Then she would go to school. My husband got her car going and told her from now on that she had to drop the baby off. He did not want me going over early in the morning. But, she could drop the baby off. He is totaly against the methadone and says that she is just going to get her dope legally. I really have mixed feelings about it. However, I feel that I have gone through enough with her. She chose to relapse, by doing it her way. Now, I feel that she needs to do a few things "my way", if she wants my help. I no longer will go over there while she goes to the clinic. She can either drop him off to me, or take the baby with her. She was really mad at me last weekend because I would not let her spend the night at my house to make it easier on her. Yes, I feel bad that she has to drag the baby out, but she made that choice when she started using again. The baby can go back to sleep and I do take care of him. I am no longer at her beckon call. I even put my foot down further, this past weekend, when I told her to quit being a "baby doll mama". By that I mean, a mother who claims how much they love their baby. She buys all kind of nice clothes for him. She loves to dress him up and show him off. He is gorgeous. And, I really love him. But, after 12 hours of watching him on a Saturday, I brought the baby over to her and said to her, "bond with your baby, I am going out with my husband to the store. And, you cannot spend the night, I want alone time with my husband". She was mad and called me ignorant for rushing her own daughter out the door. But, also, she has taken advantage of me. I have been watching the baby constantly. She would come home from school and I would continue to watch him while she did her work. She would be at my house until it was time for us to go to bed. Then, the next day it was the same old thing again. I really don't mind watching him. He is a good baby. But, she need to learn to be with her baby more, and to be alone. She always needs to be with someone. I don't mean to sound like I don't care, but she has drained me. Also, I do have chronic health problems and the stress has been exacerbating to me.
My husband has just returned home to live with me last week. He has been gone for almost a year. He lived about 80 miles away. We weren't separated, but that is where he got a job. Actually, he left due to the craziness in my household. We only have a one BR apt. and she came to live with me while she was pregnant. Things were quite crowded. So, he left until she got on her feet. I saw him on the weekends. But, my daughter was used to having me at her beckon call, and now my husband is home. She doesn't believe that we need alone time because we are not newlyweds. We are not newlyweds, but have never lived alone. We have been married for 8 years. The poor guy married me while my children were in high school. But, now it is our time. I am happy to have an empty nest.
This got to be so long, I forgot wile I was posting in the first place. Oh yeah, I am very on the fence about this methadone. I believe that she should be able to taper and get off of it. But, it sounds like they want to keep her on it for a long time. So, I would appreciate any comments on this.
Thanks.
She didn't admit to doing that until several weeks ago.
Her darling baby is now three months old. Thank god, he had no complications from her use. I started suspecting about 2 months ago that she was using, again. I should have known that she was - because everytime I suspect, then she "is using". That little voice inside of me is always, right. But, after awhile, I thought that I needed to lighten up. And, perhaps that I was too untrusting. Then, I discovered that she stole $50 out of my wallet, then I knew. There was no denying it. Of course, she denied taking it. But, I knew for a fact that she took it. My husband had just given me $250 and I went nowhere. The money was in my wallet and nobody was in the house but her. I was sick and cried, cried, and cried. I didn't know what to do. I did not feel well enough to take care of her baby on a 24 hr. basis, while she went into rehab. And, she was still denying her use. Also, she was starting school in a few days. Then, a few days later, she told me that she made arrangements to go to the clinic again. And, told me how she started using about two weeks, after the baby came home. After selling her methadone, she was getting sick a few days later, and then went out to use. She stated that she was only using to keep from getting sick and not to get high.
Now, I am really on the fence about her using the methadone. When she was pregnant, it was a different situation. If she had weaned properly, she should not have been getting sick. I believe she was down to 5 mg a day. If she was getting sick, after selling them why could she not just go back to the clinic and start at that dose. But, she brought herself up to 80 mg of oxy's a day. She was on that amount for about two months. When she gets to the clinic, they started her at 35 and now have her up to 60. I don't understand why she can't be weaning down and getting off of it. It kind of makes me wonder if it's about money - them keeping her at a higher dose. I know 60 is not a high dose, but she was down to 5 and functioning well. One problem is that the clinic doses from 5-10:00am throughout the week. And 6-8:30 am on saturday, and 6-7:30am on Sunday's. When she was first going to the clinic, her car was inoperable, and I had to go there every morning and watch the baby while she took my car to the clinic. Then she would go to school. My husband got her car going and told her from now on that she had to drop the baby off. He did not want me going over early in the morning. But, she could drop the baby off. He is totaly against the methadone and says that she is just going to get her dope legally. I really have mixed feelings about it. However, I feel that I have gone through enough with her. She chose to relapse, by doing it her way. Now, I feel that she needs to do a few things "my way", if she wants my help. I no longer will go over there while she goes to the clinic. She can either drop him off to me, or take the baby with her. She was really mad at me last weekend because I would not let her spend the night at my house to make it easier on her. Yes, I feel bad that she has to drag the baby out, but she made that choice when she started using again. The baby can go back to sleep and I do take care of him. I am no longer at her beckon call. I even put my foot down further, this past weekend, when I told her to quit being a "baby doll mama". By that I mean, a mother who claims how much they love their baby. She buys all kind of nice clothes for him. She loves to dress him up and show him off. He is gorgeous. And, I really love him. But, after 12 hours of watching him on a Saturday, I brought the baby over to her and said to her, "bond with your baby, I am going out with my husband to the store. And, you cannot spend the night, I want alone time with my husband". She was mad and called me ignorant for rushing her own daughter out the door. But, also, she has taken advantage of me. I have been watching the baby constantly. She would come home from school and I would continue to watch him while she did her work. She would be at my house until it was time for us to go to bed. Then, the next day it was the same old thing again. I really don't mind watching him. He is a good baby. But, she need to learn to be with her baby more, and to be alone. She always needs to be with someone. I don't mean to sound like I don't care, but she has drained me. Also, I do have chronic health problems and the stress has been exacerbating to me.
My husband has just returned home to live with me last week. He has been gone for almost a year. He lived about 80 miles away. We weren't separated, but that is where he got a job. Actually, he left due to the craziness in my household. We only have a one BR apt. and she came to live with me while she was pregnant. Things were quite crowded. So, he left until she got on her feet. I saw him on the weekends. But, my daughter was used to having me at her beckon call, and now my husband is home. She doesn't believe that we need alone time because we are not newlyweds. We are not newlyweds, but have never lived alone. We have been married for 8 years. The poor guy married me while my children were in high school. But, now it is our time. I am happy to have an empty nest.
This got to be so long, I forgot wile I was posting in the first place. Oh yeah, I am very on the fence about this methadone. I believe that she should be able to taper and get off of it. But, it sounds like they want to keep her on it for a long time. So, I would appreciate any comments on this.
Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
There was a recent program on HBO called addiction. Opiate addiction is extremely hard. Relapse is common because the opiates replace the dopamine in an addict's brain. When they try to quit the opiates, their brains no longer make the dopamine. Dopamine is what is responsible for us being able to feel pleasure. So opiate addicts can not feel pleasure without the opiates. It is a vicious cycle. Most experts in addiction are now saying that opiate addicts who are using methadone or suboxone in an effort to quit should stay on it for at least two years. The longer their opiate use and the stronger the opiate they were on (oxy being pure is very strong) plus the method in which they used (iv being the worst) will determine how long the addict must stay on the methadone or suboxone. Some addicts use it for the rest of their lives. Methadone is not a miracle drug in itself, but combined with a good recovery program and the willingness to surrender, it has changed people's lives. In the meantime, take care of yourself. My daughter is an opiate addict so I know how much it hurts. Hugs, Marle
Hug giver-outer!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The State of Possibilities
Posts: 533
I tend to agree with marle. I just pray that your AD is able to find the right road for her. It is just so dang hard to get off the stuff. It has them by the neck.
Try to focus on you and keep your strength up. Thank G*d the baby is ok. That is the main thing.
Have faith and hope and focus on the good.
Try to focus on you and keep your strength up. Thank G*d the baby is ok. That is the main thing.
Have faith and hope and focus on the good.
Jujubee Queen
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 3,582
jl5784,
What I read in your post is you are sick and tired of being manipulated by your daughter. Regardless of if she is on methadone, or not, it all belongs to her, not you.
As for helping her with the new baby, I think that's very well, and nice of you to help her out on occasion, but still the baby is her responsibility, and it looks like she wants you to take over the majority of care for your grandson. I think you're wise to set up boundaries there.
And YOU are a newlywed! If you've never lived alone together during the time you've been married, yep...I think that constitutes being a newlywed!
Try to get to some meetings, they really help us cope...well they help ME cope, anyway...
Hugs to you,
What I read in your post is you are sick and tired of being manipulated by your daughter. Regardless of if she is on methadone, or not, it all belongs to her, not you.
As for helping her with the new baby, I think that's very well, and nice of you to help her out on occasion, but still the baby is her responsibility, and it looks like she wants you to take over the majority of care for your grandson. I think you're wise to set up boundaries there.
And YOU are a newlywed! If you've never lived alone together during the time you've been married, yep...I think that constitutes being a newlywed!
Try to get to some meetings, they really help us cope...well they help ME cope, anyway...
Hugs to you,
Hug giver-outer!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The State of Possibilities
Posts: 533
I have to say that I agree with Moose. She hit the nail on the head, which she tends to be good at!
We, as parents, know that it is so hard to distance yourself from your own child but you have to do that in order to maintain your sanity, live your own life and let her choose to live hers the way she decides. Never easy but it is necessary.
We, as parents, know that it is so hard to distance yourself from your own child but you have to do that in order to maintain your sanity, live your own life and let her choose to live hers the way she decides. Never easy but it is necessary.
grateful rca
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
i agree with moose, i have 7 grands and i know how it can be, i wanted to help my kids with the kids since i was home, but you give them an inch and they try to give you a mile in return. i had to do the same thing as you concerning the grandkids, that don't mean that i don't love them only that i've spent all my young yrs raising them, now its my time and i don't have to keep kids unless i want to. i'm proud of you for standing your grounds, and whether you are newly weds or not, it doesn't make a difference to me, you do have your own life to live and its time now. glad to hear that your husband is home now, and i don't think that you have one thing to feel guilty about. i'm so happy that your grandbaby if ok and i'm sorry about your daughter, i pray that she finds her way soon. she seems to really love her child, and this just what it may take to keep her more focused on her recovery. i'm praying for you all.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: twilight zone,usa
Posts: 3,909
i do not know anything about the methadone program at all, i just want to say that i am glad you are back with us. as far as your daughter, do not feel guilty about not helping her.help when you can & when you want to.we need to put ourselves & our lives first (husband).i know my a.s's step father loves him & is concerned about him but enough is enough. this is suppose to be our golden yrs. all our children are grown it is our time.focus on you & what you want. hugs & prayers,hope
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 13
I know what you are going through. I too have a 20 year old AD addicted to opiates and I am raising her 8 month old baby. It has been a really hard year and I am never sure the right thing to do. I tried the "its your baby, you raise him", but stayed so worried about him as she is often completely out of control and her apartment became a bit of a flop house and every time I would visit someone different would be there with him and she would call me begging me to pick him up.
I don't know what the right road is I should have taken. Maybe I'm still grasping at control in raising him. Trying to make his situation all right and him not suffer for her actions. She cries about it, says she is missing everything, but doesn't take any steps to change.
It is a hard place to be on my part. Not wanting him to be damaged by her use and lifestyle and not wanting to take this much control over her life.
I pray I am doing the right thing. It seems such a sacred bond- mother and baby. I hope I am not wrong in letting not insisting he live with her.
I don't know what the right road is I should have taken. Maybe I'm still grasping at control in raising him. Trying to make his situation all right and him not suffer for her actions. She cries about it, says she is missing everything, but doesn't take any steps to change.
It is a hard place to be on my part. Not wanting him to be damaged by her use and lifestyle and not wanting to take this much control over her life.
I pray I am doing the right thing. It seems such a sacred bond- mother and baby. I hope I am not wrong in letting not insisting he live with her.
Jujubee Queen
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 3,582
riverc,
I agee with you. You're assessing the situation, and you believe harm could come to the child, and I think you are doing the right thing.
In jl5784, situation, I wasn't under the impression the child was in harms way. If that IS the case, I would try to have the child as much as I physically could.
I imagine each situation is a bit different...depending on the stablity of the mother, or father of the child, and if they are in recovery.
Hugs,
I agee with you. You're assessing the situation, and you believe harm could come to the child, and I think you are doing the right thing.
In jl5784, situation, I wasn't under the impression the child was in harms way. If that IS the case, I would try to have the child as much as I physically could.
I imagine each situation is a bit different...depending on the stablity of the mother, or father of the child, and if they are in recovery.
Hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: northeast
Posts: 12
Thanks to everyone for all of your replies. And, yes mooselips, the baby is fine with his mother. More than anything, I just want her to be responsible. Me watching the baby is really not an issue when it is necessary. e.g. I have agreed to watch him for three months while she is in school. But, she stretched it above and beyond. She would ask me to watch him for a short period, then it turned out being 12 hrs. Then, I finally put my foot down.
And, after three months, she will have to put him in daycare, as I cannot chase after a crawling baby. If I was able to do that, then I could be working. As I am on disablity. There is a big difference in watching a 3 month old, than a 6 to 9 month old. My daughter tried to lay a guilt trip on me about it, too. Saying, "Well I guess then I will just have to quit school because I don't want him in a daycare." Arrgh!!! I told her that she will be going to work after she finishes school and she would have to put the baby in daycare then. So what is the difference??
Yes, I have issues with her other than just her addiction and being on methadone. Maybe, I could accept the methadone, if I was really convinced that she was serious this time. It will be awhile before I am there.
Oh well, the baby is crying. I will try to post again, later.
And, after three months, she will have to put him in daycare, as I cannot chase after a crawling baby. If I was able to do that, then I could be working. As I am on disablity. There is a big difference in watching a 3 month old, than a 6 to 9 month old. My daughter tried to lay a guilt trip on me about it, too. Saying, "Well I guess then I will just have to quit school because I don't want him in a daycare." Arrgh!!! I told her that she will be going to work after she finishes school and she would have to put the baby in daycare then. So what is the difference??
Yes, I have issues with her other than just her addiction and being on methadone. Maybe, I could accept the methadone, if I was really convinced that she was serious this time. It will be awhile before I am there.
Oh well, the baby is crying. I will try to post again, later.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 285
It is definitely time for you. You are doing the right thing. Marle, I never saw the HBO special and I didn't realize about the opiates and dopamine. My as spoke to my daughter recently and said he was depressed. He was only on the suboxone for about a month and now can't afford it anymore. With that in mind, you wonder if he'll ever recover.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: northeast
Posts: 12
I saw the HBO addiction special, yesterday. It was good. I taped it, and I hope that I can convince my husband to sit down and watch it. I'd like to know more about the baclofen that they were talking. They mentioned it, briefly. I know that it is a muscle relaxant. I'd like to know more about that. I never heard of that being used for addiction. I have heard of all of the others.
riverc, I am really sorry about your situation. I believe that you are doing the right thing. It is really a tough situation. It sure can rip a mother's heart. But, I guess that it can happen to anybody. Initially, I felt how could my AD be such a hard-core addict when she was raised in a stable environment. I was a single mother until their teen years. I did not even date, until eight years after my divorce. I was devoted to my children. The PTA mom, homeroom mother, etc. My social life consisted of my going to school(which I loved), and being involved in children's activities. But, on that HBO documentary they showed a girl from a good family, was a cheerleader, made good grades and was popular. But, her mother said that her daughter never liked herself. But, I am sure that her underlying problem was depression. So, I guess that we do our best, and sometimes it doesn't matter. Addiction happens in any family.
Actually, I believe that the underlying problem in most addicts is depression. I have seen many dual-diagnosis where I worked. And, my daughter had many psych issues. First diagnosis was major depression, then later on it was bi-polar. But, whatever she truly has - she was never compliant with her meds.
Also, I believe there is an "addiction gene". Some people can experiment with drugs and not get addicted while others are hooked the first time. Just like anything else genetic. There are some people that can smoke cigarettes and it doesn't harm their lungs, while others will die from lung disease.
I am sorry that this was long-winded.
riverc, I am really sorry about your situation. I believe that you are doing the right thing. It is really a tough situation. It sure can rip a mother's heart. But, I guess that it can happen to anybody. Initially, I felt how could my AD be such a hard-core addict when she was raised in a stable environment. I was a single mother until their teen years. I did not even date, until eight years after my divorce. I was devoted to my children. The PTA mom, homeroom mother, etc. My social life consisted of my going to school(which I loved), and being involved in children's activities. But, on that HBO documentary they showed a girl from a good family, was a cheerleader, made good grades and was popular. But, her mother said that her daughter never liked herself. But, I am sure that her underlying problem was depression. So, I guess that we do our best, and sometimes it doesn't matter. Addiction happens in any family.
Actually, I believe that the underlying problem in most addicts is depression. I have seen many dual-diagnosis where I worked. And, my daughter had many psych issues. First diagnosis was major depression, then later on it was bi-polar. But, whatever she truly has - she was never compliant with her meds.
Also, I believe there is an "addiction gene". Some people can experiment with drugs and not get addicted while others are hooked the first time. Just like anything else genetic. There are some people that can smoke cigarettes and it doesn't harm their lungs, while others will die from lung disease.
I am sorry that this was long-winded.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21
To the methadone
Dear jl,
most people here responded to your other problems with your daughter, so I want to respond to your last question, about the methadone. I understand, methadone helped some people in some situations, but I strongly believe, that such a powerful drug with many adverse side effects taken everyday, cannot do anything good for anybody's body's health, specially when taken for a long time, maybe as suggested even for the rest of their lives.
"We do not know the long range effects of methadone on the human body and mind...many are now thinking that the longer you are on the methadone the more profound and possibly irreversible these changes may be...
Methadone, like all opioids creates profound changes to gastrointestinal function...regardless of the food you eat, absorbtion of the vital nutrients is impaired.
Methadone also has profound effects on brain neurotransmitter production and function. It is also known that it creates havoc in hypothalamic-pituitary adrenal axis which accounts for the chronic fatique. And like all opiates, down regulates opiate receptors in the human body thus lon lasting aches and pains associated with withdrawal. Methadone withdrawal is particularly insidious, left untreated these symptoms can lasts literally for months. Longer you are on methadone the more profound these changes in body and mind function. "
This is from Dr.David Arneson monograph, there is a lot more very useful information about help with withdrawals etc. I recommend you to read it. I found it at www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm.
My son is already fed up with side effects of methadone like constipation, urinary problems and skin problems and so hopefully this week he will talk to his clinic Dr. to start to taper down.
Good Luck to you! And to me too! Love Aura.
most people here responded to your other problems with your daughter, so I want to respond to your last question, about the methadone. I understand, methadone helped some people in some situations, but I strongly believe, that such a powerful drug with many adverse side effects taken everyday, cannot do anything good for anybody's body's health, specially when taken for a long time, maybe as suggested even for the rest of their lives.
"We do not know the long range effects of methadone on the human body and mind...many are now thinking that the longer you are on the methadone the more profound and possibly irreversible these changes may be...
Methadone, like all opioids creates profound changes to gastrointestinal function...regardless of the food you eat, absorbtion of the vital nutrients is impaired.
Methadone also has profound effects on brain neurotransmitter production and function. It is also known that it creates havoc in hypothalamic-pituitary adrenal axis which accounts for the chronic fatique. And like all opiates, down regulates opiate receptors in the human body thus lon lasting aches and pains associated with withdrawal. Methadone withdrawal is particularly insidious, left untreated these symptoms can lasts literally for months. Longer you are on methadone the more profound these changes in body and mind function. "
This is from Dr.David Arneson monograph, there is a lot more very useful information about help with withdrawals etc. I recommend you to read it. I found it at www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm.
My son is already fed up with side effects of methadone like constipation, urinary problems and skin problems and so hopefully this week he will talk to his clinic Dr. to start to taper down.
Good Luck to you! And to me too! Love Aura.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
