Am I TOO independent??

Old 04-02-2007, 06:38 PM
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Am I TOO independent??

New Guy has said recently that I'm a little too independent. I've been thinking about it, and it makes me wonder...

I have worked very hard at my recovery and to break out of toxic and dysfunctional cycles. Is it possible that I've become TOO detached... too desensitized so that I don't allow anyone to get to close? I am proud of the fact that I can take care of myself: emotionally, financially, physically etc. I know my boundaries, my likes and my dislikes. In this process, I've become determined to never "need" anyone to take care of me again. Have I become calloused? Clinical? I really don't know!

I'm just wondering how others have gone thru this process.... how you've found the balance once you've reached that point of independence.

~Cat
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Old 04-02-2007, 06:46 PM
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I liked my independance I loved everything about it. Let me really find out who I am and what I want my goals and I could meet them. I supported myself finacially, phyically and emotionally. I am so thankful that I did. When another relationship came about it wasnt cause I needed him to support me I could do that myself . It was because I really enjoyed his company. I was like u didnt need anyone to take care of me I took care of myself. I had boundries of what was ok and not ok. I knew I could do it on my own if it didnt work out. I wouldnt feel trapped. Enjoy this. You dont need anyone you have found yourself and your inner peace! Once in a while its nice to date but that will come in time. Maybe your just not ready your still enjoy finding yourself. In time if you meet someone u will know what u want. Balance will come. Hope this makes since. I dont regret one day of the 5yrs I lived alone supported myself worked and got everything for myself. Not from someone else. I can make myself feel good and strong and pretty. That comes with the balance. Hope my ramble helped some.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:05 PM
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Before I met my husband, I was in a bad relationship with an alcoholic who cheated on me several times. He graduated from college and, of course, broke up with me. I became very independent. Went back to college and vowed to never, ever accept cheating or alcohol in my life again. When I met my husband I was at that "I am woman, hear me roar" phase and more or less told him what I would or would not accept in my life. Played hard*ss for a long time. But one day I just knew that I could trust him. It was a feeling. A feeling that we were both at the same point in our lives. We have been married for 25 years and I have never regretted trusting him. He did tell me that when he first met me he thought that I had a big mouth and an attitude problem But I needed to be independent and I still am too much at times. I know that if something should happen to my husband I can survive alone. That is my story in a nutshell. Hugs, Marle
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:06 PM
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How can women be too independent? i thought men liked that about today's woman.
I loved taking care of myself and my kids without a man to depend on.
I even miss it occasionally.
I think your great. He'll appreciate it later, me thinks.
Jmho. I love ya, Cat. You rock!
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:15 PM
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i have a feeling that new guy was attracted to you for a reason - you is what you is (didn't popeye say something like that?) - to thine own self be true - and when good things happen it's because of just that - enjoy yourself - and everyone else (who's worthy) will too...

love,
s
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Old 04-03-2007, 03:36 AM
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Me, I was born independent, it was just too bad I was born a girl instead of a boy, then everything would have been ok.

I have always taken care of me, even as a child, had to.

Many times a man feels threatened by a womans independence, I say "Tough
Dingleberries" today we woman need to be independent. Over 60% of all households are led by a woman. The guy is MIA for one reason or another.

I can love a man, he can love me, but, I will take care of me. Manage my own money, have my own house, my own car and my own visions.

I just cannot be a woman of yesterday, walking 3 steps behind a man, just won't happen.

To me, you sound just fine, wouldn't give his words a second thought, if he feels that way, it is his problem not yours.

Women like you empower others, be proud of you. I know I am.

Love,
Dolly
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:00 AM
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Before recovery I spent most of my time taking care of others and often got angry asking myself "When will someone take care of ME?"

The answer was that I first needed to learn to take care of myself. When I was secure in my own independence, when I knew I could look after myself no matter what, it was then that I could feel comfortable allowing others to make my life easier.

My addict is my son, and my husband (neither A nor codie) has always been a good provider, a good supporter of my visions and dreams, and a respecter of my choices even when he doesn't agree with them. We have found a safe place where we share responsibilities and also share our dreams and our fun, yet each maintaining an independence that allows us space to pursue our individual interests without feeling "left out" from the other's life.

I have not been through a bad relationship (I have been married forever), but I was raised by a mother who was widowed in her 40's and learned from her how important it was to be able to take care of myself.

Knowing that I can take care of myself allows me more comfort in allowing others to take care of me sometimes.

My heart goes out to those of you who are still recovering from wounds of a bad relationship which may lead to struggling even when you find a healthy one.

Hugs
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:30 AM
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(((((Cats))))))

I'm just curious...in what ways does he say you are too independent?

I am fiercely independent. I always have been. I don't like having to ask anyone for help. I wasn't looking for someone to take care of me when I met exah...I was just looking for someone to share my life with.

Somehow, I ended up being the caretaker in the relationship. The burden of trying to 'help' my exah led to codependency and it nearly destroyed my spirit.

After everything I've been thru...My independent spirit has grown stronger and I wouldn't change a thing about it. I, for one, cannot imagine having to rely on someone for my financial needs and stability.

Now...if someone were to come along who enhanced my life, that would be great but I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER co-mingle my finances with someone else. I won't ever purchase a home that requires two of our salaries to pay the mortgage or incur any other type of debt that I cannot handle on my own. It just aint gonna happen. And if the next man I meet has a problem with this, than I say its HIS problem and not mine. Maybe I'm wrong about this...but I don't think so. I think an independent spirit will insure my survival (and a stable life for my son too).

I know I've focused mainly on the financial aspects of things. Learning to trust someone emotionally is going to take a very, very long time. Thats sad, really...but after everything I've been thru, I think its just plain survival instinct.

Interesting topic...thanks for bringing it up!!
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:57 AM
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My Ex husband told me he "liked" my independence, but he also felt threatened by it and told me I was unapproachable.. he needed me to be "soft."

Yeah.. well, I got over being soft the first time HE was tractor driving drunk (well, you can't expect a guy to work all day on the tractor w/o a bottle behind the seat can ya?), and HE got the tractor hopelessly stuck in the mud and I had to dig it out and finish the job because HE got MORE drunk (because the tractor got stuck).

About 5 hours later and with 70 tons of mud on me I got the tractor out and drove it home. I walked in the door and handed him the keys.. and he was so drunk all he could slur were the xcuses why he got it stuck. Not even a thank you. THEN, I still had to feed and milk the cows.

He wore me down over the course of almost 20 years and I became the 3 steps behind and head down woman.. and then I left. He was in the mental ward (again) and binge drinking when not in there.. and the animals were gone so I moved out.

And for two year I was alone but not in recovery.... and then I met the XABF.. Steve.. and I am grateful for the photography I learned and the trips I went on and that I am in recovery but d**n his hide cuz he is a philandering cheat. I am now grateful he is GONE.

I have not re-aquainted myself wtih my own independence until the last 5 months, thanks to SR, Alanon, and my own stubborn cussedness that I am ever so grateful to have back!

I love it. Today, if men are threatened by me SO BE IT. Let 'em cowar and cover their heads.. cuz I have ARRIVED!

".. leave 'em scared.." (Hudson and Landry)

".. are you strong enough to be my man.." (Sheryl Crowe)

If a man is threatened by your independence it may be that he is co dependent.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:07 AM
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I ditto all of you! Hurrah for independence!!
Actually, those of us gals on the forum who live in the US and other developed nations don't know how good we have it. As women, to be able to make our own living and control our own destiny is such a blessing. In many, many countries around the world, in societies of ALL different religious persuasions, women are 2nd class citizens.
I jsut read the most astounding book (and disturbing) called "Not For Sale" about modern-day global slavery. Not just sexual slavery, but domestic and factory workers as well. I highly recommend the book.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:12 AM
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CatsP~
You have given me so much advice that I can only offer some kinds words as i am not even near where you are in terms of recovery. Plus I am only 24 years old so not much experience under my belt in terms of relationships (esp. healthy ones) but I can relate to the "being too independent question."

I think that one can never really be too independent... It's more of the reason for asserting our independence while still in a relationship. When I have gotten over a bad breakup (I was a true codie even then and the man was not an addict) - I regained my indepdence slowly but because I had not worked on my recovery from codepdency I used my independence as a sheild- a protective mechanism that I put between me and another because I was afraid of the "all or nothing" kicking back in. Not needing anyone and then being completely dependent on them.

I believe it is normal- for you to feel a bit shaky in terms of putting your recovery into practice in a new relationship. I would just have to say believe in yourself and continue to make your life about you. I copy and pasted the Toxic Love vs. Healthy Love below. I always find this helpful because I can identify what I consider "healthy behavior" in a relationship. Clearly you're not in the toxic region- but identifying opposite ends of hte spectrum helps to keep our current beliefs in perspective. Again I think the gray area in between the TOO INDePENDENT and the CODEPENDENT can be difficult to get to. We've been practicing certain ways for so long and haven't ever experienced a relationship where two equals are present that it feels so foreign. I've had relationships like this for awhile but felt that by nature I am naturally codependent and apt to lose myself in another so for me that takes more work. Hope some of that helped even if just a little



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here is a short list of the characteristics of Love vs. toxic love (compiled with the help of the work of Melody Beattie & Terence Gorski.)

1. Love - Development of self first priority.
Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.
2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow.
Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)

3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.
Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.

4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth.
Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.

5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)
Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."

6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.
Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.

7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality.
Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.

8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.
Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.

9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood.
Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.

10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)

11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.
Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.

12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone.
Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.

13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment.
Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:14 AM
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Oh and I've also found that cultivating a friendship as the basis of a relationship helps to quiet my fears of "losing myself" and makes it easier for me to begin to expect healthy things from a person without interfereing with my independence and autonomy.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:15 AM
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don't know what it means to be too independant, didn't know that there could be such a thing. i'm a very independant married woman and i love it. its all about how i feel about myself. i don't want nobody to HAVE to do for me, what i can do for myself. you inspire me cat.
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:03 AM
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Thanks to all of you. It must be part of my codie nature... to second guess myself when someone else comments on something I am doing that might be a bit anti-codie in nature!

Heather, I had to laugh... I've used that exact post more than once myself, both online here and in face to face meetings. I guess I should have pulled it out and read it !

I've never HAD a healthy relationship, at least to the best of my knowledge... so I have worked very hard to change behaviors, beliefs, expectations etc. On the surface, New Guy is different from my previous signficant others. I am learning it will take time to discover whether or not he's really just the same guy again in different skin.

Time takes time. And in the meantime, I am going to continue to nurture my indepedendence.

Thanks for being my consultants.

~ Cat
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:10 AM
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You are welcome.
Our consultant rates are $300 an hour with a 3 hour minimum!
(REALLY just kidding...)

The thing I love about SR and alanon is the results are far superior (for me) than any counseling with a psychologist and the cost is simply my friendship and support to others and maintaining an open heart (I make donations to Alanon, but even this is far less than a 'pro' would charge!).
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:49 AM
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As long as you are not Too Indpendent for yourself and comfortable with who
you are then be yourself.
I'd ask friend what he means by too independent. It's just such a blanket statement...what is he really saying?
Don't doubt yourself because of his comment.
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:54 AM
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I am independent in all ways but one... emotional.

I have always carried myself financially, socially, intellectually. I don't need anyone else... and tend to isolate because of that. That is not good.

But when it came to allowing myself to be vulnerable emotionally... gah!

I would either "trade" my love for some expectation or build resentments for not having expectations fulfilled or go through periods of isolation.

Today, I finally have allowed Mr. Big to just love me and not worry about where we are in the game. Who owes who. I don't know the process of how this has come about... but it started happening in Alanon. Maybe when I started allowing my women friend to fill some of the emotional holes I had always had expectations for from him. Maybe that "lightened" the load so that I have fewer resentments. But something happened. And it is better today.

"Too independent"... yeah. I think it is possible. But I don't like that label applied by anyone but me. And I have to get to that realization on my own. When others start pointing out this stuff in me... I gotta wonder what is going on in them.

(((Cat))))
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:08 AM
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If a man cant rejoice in a womans independance then they dont feel confident about who they are themselves.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:03 PM
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I don't think you can be too independent. If you are looking out for yourself, your sanity, and your own personal interests, then you're doing what you're supposed to do.
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