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Old 03-28-2007, 06:38 PM
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Talking Ignorant People

Just a question for you codies out there. I experienced something very annoying and insensitive at work yesterday. It's just me and two other women in our office. One of them got on the subject of a news show, hosting a doctor where you could call in questions. She said a lady called in and wanted to know if there was something else she could take for pain because after 6 weeks of pain meds she was out, but was curious if there was something else. I guess you could interpret that question in a number of ways. Her conclusion (the girl in my office) was that people can deal with addiction. It basically doesn't exist and it's their choice and if she can put down pills after being medically necessary, then so can others. She went really far out in left field with her logic, and I just wanted to laugh at her and say just as an addict can't help their addiction, you can't help your stupidity. I even gave her the spill about being recognized as a disease of the mind. She just shook her head and said she doesn't believe it. So I then told her that the only remedy that seems to keep an addict in recovery is the 12 Step Program. She said my dad is an alcoholic and he goes to those stupid meetings and I think they're a crock of $hit. I told her she needed to go to the local AA meeting at lunch and take a look around at all the people that THOSE MEETINGS are helping. She then insisted that her dad drinks AND goes to meetings. I was in a no win situation with her and I thought she was being very insensitive towards the disease and it's effects on the addict AND loved ones. So the next time this topic comes up, any suggestions on what to say to shut her down? Thanks!
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:43 PM
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I'd say that is probably a very sensitive subject with her. She knows deep down in her heart that you are dead-on with your comments, but she is in denial. You never know, but she may be hiding a problem too.
People usually only get hateful and say mean things when they are hurting in some way. I'd say treat this one with compassion and reserve.
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:44 PM
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You're probably right. She told me her dad has nothing to do with her or her brother.
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:47 PM
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I think she has issues about her dad's situation and probably her own.

Usually when I lash out with that much anger, it is me with the issue.

You could probably talk to her until you were blue in the face, and she would still disagree.
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:51 PM
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I agree that her anger is at herself, her dad and her brother. You can never convince anyone who has their ears plugged or their mind closed, it's just a waste of energy.

Hugs
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:57 PM
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I used to feel the same way about my daughter. That she could just quit if she wanted to. I guess that was less scary to me than to think that she had a disease that was out of control. When we become educated about addiction we know better. The girl must have issues that she is not ready to address. Anyone who has addiction in their family suffers and she must be suffering too. I am sure her comments came from anger as the others have said. I would just not bring up addiction or if it is brought up just not participate. You can't change others, only yourself. Hugs, Marle
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ann View Post
I agree that her anger is at herself, her dad and her brother. You can never convince anyone who has their ears plugged or their mind closed, it's just a waste of energy.

Hugs

That is it in a nutshell. Words on deaf ears are a waste of words...
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:00 PM
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It's not easy to change the opinions of someone who is fixed on a negative mind....

best bet is to be compassionate...perhaps offer "sorry you feel that way" and then proceed to be an example by the way you live your life
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:01 PM
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i think shes probbaly very sensitive becouse its ahrd topic for hre,, its not easy to admitto things sometiems in life,, but you did the righ thing u tried tohelp and now its her turn to decide what to dow ith ur advice...
ihope she can getthe support she neds,, sometimes it takes lots of time to admit to things..
GOd bless u
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:26 PM
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Maybe she just doesnt understand it at all to some its hard to believe that its not a choice and that we control our actions. Hell I thought the same way until I was on pain meds for a long time and tried to stop the withdrawls were absolute hell and trust me I would have done anything just to get a pill to stop them. Some people you just cant talk to about this or change their opinion. In her mind obviously she doesnt think that her dad alcoholism has affected her in a negative way. Or maybe she is angry that he wont stop and believes that he can just get up and walk away and chooses to keep drinking. Until she sees it for herself and deals with it herself in a healthy way she will not understand no matter what thats just how some people are. I used to be one of them until I became addicted to pain pills. I wouldnt even try to get her to see a different point of view some people will not accept it and dont have alot of knowledge like the people do here because we were forced to deal with the affects of addiction and learn everything we can learn about it.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:31 PM
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or maybe she really is stupid lol
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:32 PM
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sorry, I couldn't resist that.
I agree that she probably has issues and isn't ready to deal with them so everyone else must be wrong
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:35 PM
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Faith,
It kind of reminds me of when I first came to Sober recovery. I was adamant that detachment was not the way to go...just couldn't figure that out for the longest time...silly me...


She most likely has issues she's having a hard time dealing with...

You done did good.

Hugs,
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:38 PM
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You done did good.
Yeah, what moosie said!

You can also try my personal favorites:

Oh really?
huh....
You may be right
Gosh.
Wow.

I use those a LOT around people who don't have the same understanding of alcoholism, addiction and recovery. I've also been known to use those around my recovery friends too - much to their chagrin.

Just keep your side of the street clean... and realize that you may be the only example of strong recovery she gets to see!

Hugs
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:55 PM
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Being so full of hurt, denial and control issues.... yep, that is how many of us find ourselves in the beginning. It's no accident that the conversation came up imo, even if it was just a lesson for you to learn how to handle things as well as you did. You did great.
Just be yourself and let it go, when and if she's ready she may remember what you said.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:58 PM
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Just be happy within yourself that YOU HAVE COMPASSION! Life can be pretty down without it.

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Old 03-28-2007, 10:58 PM
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Cat's good, she and Moose make a great pair, eh?

I agree there is nothing you can say to "prove" anything to someone with a closed mind. not a thing.

There are some things I've learned that make addiction even MORE mysterious to me.

Something like 60% get sober without a program... some psychologists call this "maturing out" or "spontaneous recovery". I believe that may be what happened to me and Mr. Big - neither of us work a program around our drinking, neither does my mom, nor did my dad, nor does my sis.

It is more than just a disease of the "mind" - it has a physical basis. Here are some links to a book called "Under the Influence". There is a followup book called "Beyond the Influence". Both convinced me it is absolutely a physical disease just like diabetes or heart disease. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

There seem to be commonalities among folks in program - so much so, they talk about them around the tables... "the hole in the middle", "feeling not part of", "feeling less than" that drugs FIX those feelings. And they come from folks from GOOD families, from LOVING families... but enough is not enough... the "more...more...more" stuff. Weird, and so far, unexplained.

I believe there is more to wonder about addiction, than what is "known". And PS - it is ok to go to a meeting still drinking. The only 'requirement' is a desire to quit drinking... most of us who CAN quit drinking don't have the "desire" anymore, eh?

PPS - you might ask your friend if her diabetic friends are just imagining their inability to process sugar? They might be doing it just to get attention, eh? And her friends with heart disease who still eat meat and don't exercise? They are just being obnoxious, don't ya think?

No...don't do that. Gas on the fire, is all that will do. But don't ya just WANNA sometimes? (evil grin).

The advice above mine is better, trust me. I am just a sick, sick puppy....
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:09 PM
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My Opinion HA! Accually I wouldn't say a darn thing about the subject. A good idea would be to change the subject instantly, kinda like " Hey.. Isn't Martha from the Photo copy shop sleeping with Joe the mail guy"?!
No serioulsy, when things that upset me, and I find myself in a situation were I KNOW the person is way out and wrong, I let the words go in and out. I try not to let toxic words get to me. Shake it off. She knows nothing. That silly girl.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:09 PM
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Lots of people have different opinions about addiction and the recovery proccess. Based on their own experiences. They are entitled to their opinion, as are we all. I try not to be offended by folks who have a different take on things.

"Experience is the biggest killer of theory"... lol!
I'm healthy enough to realize, that I have to just let people "live and learn!
JSM
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:57 AM
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"Experience is the biggest killer of theory"... lol!



OMG...I LOVE that one!!!!!! I have to admit, I'd been guilty of saying....this was not a disease, until it hit my daughter!! So I'd been speaking outta ignorance. Now unfortunately, am becoming more educated in this field than I Ever wanted to !!
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