Ogly

We continue to go to our meetings becuase as like the addict or the alcoholic we cannot do it alone and this is a life long disease and it is progressinve - just like thiers....We are just as able to have "dry drunk" syndrom as they are....We are never cured and we can go for years without any symptoms and then BOOM - we are right back to where we started...i never beleived that to be the case and i experinced first hand in November.....

the effect of being with an addict or an alcoholic is amazing - even if you were with them for only a week...for me - some form of meetings is going to be necessary for the rest of my life.... i know it or i will revert to that miserable person i used to be... i know it...

This is such a great read Pernell...

Love
Ogly

Pernell Johnson

Initiating Recovery

If a friend is called upon for help, it should be used as an opportunity to lead the alcoholic and the family into a structured program of recovery.
A professional person who has alcoholics as clients or patients should learn how to cope with alcoholism. Specific literature is available through Hazelden as well as local, state and national programs on alcoholism. Short, intensive training programs and workshops are also available for professional persons who are willing to spend time and effort learning more about alcoholism.
If a wife thinks her husband has a drinking problem or drinks excessively in a repeated fashion, she should seek competent help and counsel immediately for the purpose of evaluating the situation. If a wife knows her husband has a drinking problem, she should seek counsel with the intent of entering group education and therapy. These sessions should not be abandoned after a few visits, for changes do not occur overnight. Regular weekly attendance should continue for several months, for many wives report that it requires at least six months to gain realistic benefits from group participation. This may not seem fair to the wife, but in our present society the wife has one basic choice---to seek help for herself or permit the illness alcoholism to destroy her and other members of the family.
As Alcoholics Anonymous is the most widespread resource for the alcoholic today, so is Al-Anon the most readily available help for the wife and other members of the family. There are also Alcoholism Information Centers, Mental Health Centers and some professional persons who have learned enough to provide competent counsel for the family. If a persistent search is made, the wife can find a source of help. This is the only realistic point where the merry-go-round of denial may be broken during the early stages of alcoholism. It is also the only realistic method by which the family may introduce a recovery program into their situation. Once this is done the family member must continue to use whatever help isavailable and build her own program of recovery, preferably with an established group. Initiating a recovery program may cause greater conflict and suffering initially, but in the long run it is far less painful than helping the alcoholic continue to drink by being a member of the supporting cast in the play.

I have come to the end of my story and I appreciate your attention in this matter and the comments that you have made. I am going to make some small notes here and if you have further questions or comments they are welcome.If you'd like to get this for yourself, it is a white paper published by Hazelden Foundation.


The Alcoholic Wife
Note: For those who wish to structure the merry-go-round for the alcoholic wife, the process is quite simple. The husband plays all three roles in the second act. If he expects his wife to recover he must change all three roles. To do this he needs more help than the wife of the alcoholic husband. The husband will deny that he needs help, but after all, that is the name of the play---"A Merry-Go-Round Named Denial."

1. Secure additional alcoholism literature for your own study.
2. Seek out all professional alcoholism services in your community. Use whatever is available for the family and know what is available for the alcoholic.
3. Attend Al-Anon regularly in addition to professional services. If Al-Anon is not available, attend open meetings of Alcoholic Anonymous
4. Remember that the family may perpetuate the illness or initiate recovery. Consciously work toward recovery by initiating and continuing a change in your role in the drama of alcoholism.

Just for Today, I am Sober

lucy2

I am very new to this and the mother of an alcoholic son who is 25.
Thank you for the informative and 'visual' explanation. Not sure even which role I have, but will find out as soon as possible. We did tell our son today that he cannot live here (he returned home two months ago after an attempted suicide while drunk)unless/until he is ready to get help. It was scary and sad, but then I found this bulletin board and some hope that it is a step in the right direction.
Thank you again. I see the mistakes I have made and hope to not repeat them.
Lucy

JT

Welcome Lucy2!
I too am the mother of an alcoholic son that currently is homeless. He has worn out all his family and friends with his disease and I cannot, today, visualize a time when would let him move back in. Possibly after he had some sober productive time under his belt. I have let him in in the past and it has alway ended badly....and it hurt ME. It is hard for me not to obsess over the past and my part, as his mother, in his disease. It was his constantly going from crisis to crisis that sent me running to Al Anon, not my father or even my husband. (they are A's also). But I have found some peace in the storm by getting myself well with Al Anon meetings, books, this board and the strength of the fellowship. I keep my expectations low and I tell him I love him when I am able. I also pray that HP keeps him safe. It is sometimes hard, as a mother, to remember that I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it but I cling to that wisdom as an absolute and it does help.
I will be thinking of you.......Just Tired

Pernell Johnson

I am glad so many have read this piece on alcoholism. I hope you have found the vision and hope that I hoped to inspire. It is not easy to accept some things and even harder to change your way of life but it can be done. Take a conscious stand about all that you know and decide what is it that you want. Take the action, you think is the right action toward achieving what you want.

beginning2c

PLEASE PLEASE KEEP POSTING! I am new to this and learning sooooo much.
I greatly appreciate YOU and the tremendous amount of work you have done on this.

goldlady

Pernell Johnson is the hardest
working man in
Recovery!
I know James Brown is Jealous!
I hope You don't have a lot of
sequined Capes & a perm!
I wouldn't be able to take it Bro Man
I will still do back up for you!
But,I will dog you!
do wop

Morning Glory

This was great! Bravo!



------------------
The Higher The Fewer!

Pernell Johnson

Once again for the newcomer, just have a read.

DoveWings7

Wow! this really opened the door, shed the light on what really is going on. To hear this in a drama act/story. Has really helped. I'd like to print this out and read it to my family and friends. would this be the same for a drug user also. Perhaps alcohol alone does not give them the effect anymore so adding a drug intensifies their feelings,emotions sense of self? Should I be crying or feel sad for this person.

Pernell Johnson

bonbon,ogly,smoke and the whole naranon gang, thiss was so well received and you all have kept it alive and keep coming back that I take it that is has helped someone. So to help you out a little bit I am going to run another series right here, right now on how to facilitate recovery. That is help your loved one into recovery.

Let's start with the statistics a rather depressing one---less than 8 percent of alcoholics or drug addicts are recovered. That means, fewer than one in every twelve alcoholics or drug addicts stop drinking or using and are able to lead a normal life. Many addicted people die prematurely. Others live miserable lives, out of touch with reality, their world increasingly cocooned by chemical agents, inflicting misery on those who love them. It is accepted that the alcoholic or addict affects at least four other people in an important way. Taking the conservative estimate 2.5% of the population are alcoholics or addicts, this means 12.5% of the population are affected by alcoholism or drug addiction. These are real people, just like you---parents, spouses, siblings, children, friends, and lovers, who, like you can't help but be affected by the destructive and senseless behavior of the addicted person.
But you, the person so profoundly affected by the alcoholic or addict, are also the person in the best possible position to affect him or her. As you change your attitudes and behavior, the more likely they are to seek effective help. In fact, with the change in you, your alcoholic or addict has more than 50% chance of recovery--6 times as great as before.

It is true that addicts and alcoholics need to admit thngs are going wrong in their lives because of drink or drugs and to realize they cannot control or get on top of the problem on their own. To encourage the addicted person to move towards recovery, you need to grasp two fundamental principles that will facilitate recovery These are:

1. The addict need information about what is wrong with them. Many alcoholics who recognize that they have a problem with drink, feel they simply have to cut down or learn to drink 'like other people'. Or else, having recognized that they have a problem with even the smallest amount of drink, they try to stop and can't. Obviously, such people need information on the disease concept of addiction, on the help that is available and on recovery. When given such material, any addicted person will be forced to consider at some level that they have a serious problem with drink or drugs and that help is available. It is sometimes said that only alcoholics or addicts have the right to diagnose their own condition. This is simply not true. You have the right to state your views on what you feel is wrong, the right to say that you think the person you love is alcoholic or an addict. The way to present your views is in a calm, detached, non-judgemental way, without expectation of immediate results. In this way, you make clear to the person what you think the problem is. It is also important to leave AA or NA literature around for the person to read.
Occasionally this, in itself will get the addicted person to seek help. Sometimes, it will be ignored or dismissed off-handedly. Sometimes, the person will react in a hostile way. Even if this happens, it does not mean the exercise has been futile. You have stated your point of view. The other person has internalized the knowledge, at some level, for use at the time when he or she is prepared to look at it and accept it to some degree. And even if it angers the addict, it may start him or her thinking.

Pernell Johnson

2. Addicts need to experience the full consequences of their behavior. This is a very important way in which you can help the addicted person become receptive to, and move towards recovery. The more protected the addicted person is from these consequences, the less likely he or she is to move to recovery. The people close to addicts need to behave in the way that allows them to experience the consequences of their behavior. They need to do this in a concerned, but detached way--a difficult thing for anyone to do. Alcoholics or addicts will begin to experience the full consequences of their behavior as the people close to them begin to behave in line with the realities of the situation.

Ogly

Pernell -

You are theking... this is FABULOUS!!! please please keep posting... cold you also post the relaspe series that you have up on the NA board for us as well..... We have gotten a lot of requests for what are the signs of relaspe and I think that will help us as well...

This post is one of the HIGHLY suggested readings we tell all new comers about - I cannot tell you how many of us have benefited from this post...This is a CORE favorite of the entire board...

Thanks again!
Love
Ogly

Pernell Johnson

Your Attitude and The Addicted Person

The attitude "I know best." is often a difficult one to overcome, simply because, it is obviously best for the addicted person to go in to recovery and you do know this. And, you are actually in a better position to come to terms with things because you are not in the grip of a powerful, chemically-created-delusion. Having become willing to look at yourself and your attitudes, perhaps having attended Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meetings, you obviously have some grasp of what is required. The problem here is that if you let the fact that you do know this becomes a part of your self-image (me who knows best) or your attitude, it will give you the manner of being a little superior, a little above the addicted person. You will appear as the person who's trying to be in charge. To the addicted person, you won't appear just as one person talking to another, but as a slightly superior being.

Addicts being locked in self, are highly attuned to attitudes. It's their territory and they know how to battle it out, how to win, or, simply how to dismiss it. For this reason, your attitude is very important. If you do not yet understand, here is an example. Look at Billy, now a recovering addict, and see what an important part the attitudes of other played in his recovery:
Bruce speaking, "I remember sitting in a doctor's office with my wife and they were talking about whether they should give me shock treatment again, or a lobotomy or whatever. It was like I wasn't there. The doctor turned to me and said, "you know if you gave up the drink and the drugs that things will be better." I thought, "stuff you my man." People think they can frighten you into going straight. They don't know you've got this magic substance that stops you being frightened. They think they can bully you or push you around. But they can't. You cop and it is all good."

You can see how easily Billy dismissed the "I know better," attitude of the doctor and his wife. But, the 'I know attitude is one people often find hard to let go of. One way of helping yourself to do this is to ask yourself how much credit you can take for not being an alcoholic or addict. None, of course! It's just the luck of the draw that you didn't have the predisposition or the susceptibility. Or, if you find yourself slightly superior about the fact you don't drink, or control your drinking easily, remind yourself of the reason you are able to do so. It's a combination of all sorts of factors operating on you that made you into that kind of person. It's not as if you generated your own qualities and made yourself a particular kind of person. Billy explains that when someone got through to him, it was not someone who knew better, but a non-judgemental statement by a concerned stranger.: "One night I was lying in the gutter in the city and this guy nearly drives over me. He got out of his car, rally shaken. I was totally unable to move and he rolled me onto the pavement. I can remember him looking down at me, with this scared look and he said, "You shouldn't be here man, you shouldn't be here." Something touched me and I began to think, no, I shouldn't be here. I'd been lying in gutters and worse for years, but it hit me that night. It really hit me. I got to the point where I was prepared to admit someone might know better."

msmom

But you, the person so profoundly affected by the alcoholic or addict, are also the person in the best possible position to affect him or her. As you change your attitudes and behavior, the more likely they are to seek effective help. In fact, with the change in you, your alcoholic or addict has more than 50% chance of recovery--6 times as great as before.
Dear Pernell,
I'm new to this post, and a veteran of AlAnon. My late ex-husband was the A, and he had mental health issues as well, so it was a life tragically ended at 41. Our son is the one I'm affected by now. (I should say more affected by...) The paragraph I quote, while I know its meaning, gives a kind of pressure to me to affect the outcome--whether he will be in recovery or not... I'm struggling right now, as you can see. The gratitude I have is that my son came to me to ask me to help him get into detox. We are a few days away from that. I intend to go to Naranon and continue with my CoDA meetings too.
God bless you all for contributing to this forum.
M's Mom

Pernell Johnson

Ms. Mom, I am sorry to hear about your husband. I do hope that this works out for your son. I would suggest that you have a long-term treatment facility picked out for him to enter after the detox. This way he can meet and make friends with other non-using people. He can put together a program to help him maintain his sobriety once out of detox. Recovery is a long term process and most times the addict needs "good orderly direction," from someone who knows how to recover from addiction. A 90 day program, a 6 month program or even a year, he would definitely benefit from the experience.


Just for Today---------I am Sober

Pernell Johnson

Detachment:
Detachment is a technique which means that even though you may care very deeply about whether or not the alcoholic drinks, you do not become directly and emotionally involved in dealing with his or her problem. You're detaching from your 'wanting' for your loved one to get well; you're detaching from your control self that tries to make it happen. You remain a person who still has love and caring for your addicted one. Instead of being directed by a basic attitude of "being against" the person, 'being overpowered' or even 'being for' the person, you simply realise that you are dealing with processes beyond his or her control and beyond yours. Take the case of Caroline, a woman with an alcoholic husband, who used detachment to help her husband to recovery.
This Caroline speaking,"He was a bar drinker. Always promised to be home on time, then he'd call up, another half an hour, another half hour. Always apologetic about it, so I hated making a scene. But, of course, it got to that and there'd be shouting matches and I'd complain about all the good food going to waste. I'd grab the beer out of his hand and the kids would wake up and there would be abuse and swearing.

I will be right back, sorry about that!

Pernell Johnson

Okay, let's go on. Caroline speaking, "I went to Al-Anon and in very practical terms learned what to do. He called up and say he'be home in an half hour. I'd say come home when you like, but please stop making the silly calls. That threw him, so he kept calling. In the end, I took the phone off the hook. Well, the first night, he was spoiling for a fight, but I ignored him. I was pleasant, but distant. Then, over a couple of weeks, it built up into a thing in his mind that I didn't care about him. He told me Al-Anon was where all the wives got together and bitched about the men. I told him if he thought that, maybe he'd like to come to a meeting some time when he was sober. He was very dismissive of that and went on and on about me not caring. I realised there was an element of truth in it and I told him that I was getting to the stage of not caring about him. All these things, I'd rehearsed in my mind, before I spoke to him. So while I was actually fairly devastated by what was happening, I could tell him very calmly. It diffused things and I had the feeling it got through to him more."
'Then he got into a thing that I was after his money. I actually realised I was staying partly for financial security and I admitted that to him. I think it really shook him, because he could see that I might leave if I got myself together, which was happening fairly rapidly.
Caroline made the decision to treat her husband as a person. 'I knew he was verey sick and disturbed, but I made a decision to listen to what he had to say--for instance, about me being after his money. I acknowledge the truth in that I believe that attitude can only help because the alcoholic actually forgets that they are a person too.'
'One thing I kept saying to him was that I thought we could make a go of it if when he got sober and I left AA material around. We went on like that for 18 months and he had his first shot at recovery. It took another year before he got sober, but I was prepared to stay around because I saw it was getting through. I had great faith in the AA program because Al-Anon had saved me from going crazy.

Caroline did not find detachment easy. She says, "I deliberately made a decision to be very matter-of-fact with him because that was the only way to get through. I thought what I'd say, practice and then say it. Often I felt very emotional, but I really had to deal with that separately.'
It's important to note that detachment isn't a single thing that people suddenly acquire and put into operation. It's a matter of putting into practice the principles described in this story---admitting and recognizing things in yourself, letting go of the situation and active acceptance.

Caroline husband Danny, says that Caroline's attitude was a major factor in his seeking treatment. "Sometimes, she drove me mad---you know, always so calm. I couldn't get her going. She just kept saying things to me and it got through. One important thing was that I felt she cared. Not in a soppy way, but just she wasn't or at me the way so many wives are."

What Caroline was doing was letting the reality of Danny's situation come to him, while dealing with the reality of her own situation. She gave up any attempt to make him stop drinking, but presented the facts and made her own position clear about what would happen if he continued to drink.


Just for Today-----I am Sober

Pernell Johnson

Telling the Addicted Person about recovery programs:

Failing to point out to alcoholics or addicts the nature of their disease allows them to continue the fantasy that they don't have a problem. You, as a person close to them, have every right to point out what you believe the problem to be.
Communicating this so it is an aid to recovery takes the skill of detachment plus the ability to choose the right time. Caroline admits that she used to abuse her husband before she understood alcoholism. she say, "I'd yell at him,, "You bloody alcoholic, you can't stop drinking." That was in the days when I thought you have to fight and win, but of course it was totally counter-productive and actually damaging. When I started going to Al-Anon, he was very dismissive of everything I said, But if the time was appropriate, I drop in a few facts about alcoholism and AA and hope something was getting through. On one hand, talking to an alcoholic about their problem, you're threatening everything they've got. On the other hand, you've got a person crying out for help. I found once I started putting detachment into practice, that it was much easier to judge when I could get through." Caroline had started from an attitude of being superior. This approach was ineffective and it was only when she was able to detach and relate as one person to another that she got through to him.


Just for Today------------I am Sober

Pernell Johnson

Telling the addicted person about recovery programs:

Paul,m the father of a drug addict son, went through the same process as Caroline. Paul speaking, "I'd get so furious that I'd tell him that he was nothing but a junkie." true, but not conducive to any sort of communication. Then I met other parents in the same situation, one with a girl who was recovering and they helped me see that I really did want my son to get well. I got information to help bring that about.
The big thing was to establish communication again and that took a while to do. Its very easy to get on the wrong side of a junkie--and they really harbour resentments. But anyway, he decided to come home for Christmas, and on Christmas Day, i went to talk to him. I told him I was sorry for being antagonistic to him in the past. Then, i started to say I knew he had a problem. He exploded and told me it was none of my business. I backed off. Later, I wrote him a letter and told him I thought he had a problem and enclosed some NA brochures and some pamphlets from a recovery place up the country. Two months later, he called and thanked me. I could feel the tension down the line. he was waiting for me to ask what he was going to do, but I knew he'd explode again. i told him I would like to see him again soon. He said he'd be home soon.
He drops in now and then and he's begun to talk. He still full of all this junkie ******** and that heroin is preferable to nuclear war. I don't get it, but I drop some hard facts about addiction and I've got a feeling it's beginning to get through. But it's hard. The addiction itself is so powerful. That makes it hard to communicate. But the way I reacted in the beginning also added to that. One minute I was a parent, the next I was the enemy. I had to work on my attitudes before any information could get through to him.

Paul was intially ineffective with his son because he was operating from attitudes of "me against him" and "knowing best both of which aroused hostility and defensiveness in his son.