just wondering if anyone saw......
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
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just wondering if anyone saw......
not to bring up the dreaded mel topic again but...........in relation to that,one of the morning shows-cant remember which,GMA OR TODAY, was gonna have a segment on whether or not it is fact/true that when people are under the influence,if the things they say are what they TRULY feel...............i missed it,and checked both websites to no avail. i was real curious as to what the experts had to say on this subject. not cuz of mel so much,but cuz of the confusion i myself have often felt in conversations with the A-s' that have been in my life.
How Important Is It?
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I didn't see it, but the usual advice is to not pay much attention to what people say and do when they are under the influence. Of course, this in no way excuses bad behaviour. It's just that if a person is walking around in an alcholic black out state, how much sense do you expect of them? The alcohol impairs judgement and lowers inhibitions (again, I'm not excusing bad behaviour!!)
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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I know I've said some things in a blackout that I couldn't believe I said. I couldn't even explain why I was angry. But then I've said some things while drunk, that maybe I wouldn't have been brave enough to say sober. Maybe it depends on how far gone you are.
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Originally Posted by megamysterioso
En Vino Veritas
I used to believe that. I've now had a chance to see the distorted perception about any and every subject when an alcoholic is drinking (esp. in a blackout). There is usually not much connection to reality in most of it;a lot of bravado,anger,blame and pity about the world picking-on the A (like it was a cosmic plan). Best to ignore it all and stay clear from it is now my motto.
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I have come to believe that, as alcohol has disinhibitor properties, what is said under the influence is the truth in the perception of the drinker. We talk about "quacking" on here, which is the things drinkers say that don't make any sense or are their comments on their reality. I came to a point where I disregarded pretty much everything that R said when he was drinking (and much of when he was "sober"), however I think I did myself (and him) a disservice and I ignored clues that would have helped me with the reality vs fantasy battle.
Personally, I have said things I regret when I have been under the influence, but equally, I have had some deep and meaningfuls that would not have happened under sober conditions at that time. I have learnt to have those conversations sober, however at that stage my walls were too high to allow that to happen.
In vino veritas - "truth in wine". It's a latin proverb.
Personally, I have said things I regret when I have been under the influence, but equally, I have had some deep and meaningfuls that would not have happened under sober conditions at that time. I have learnt to have those conversations sober, however at that stage my walls were too high to allow that to happen.
In vino veritas - "truth in wine". It's a latin proverb.
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It's a disinhibitor....
To one person that may mean the truth is easier to say, to another that it becomes easier to lie. For some it makes it easier to be abusive, for others easier to say how much they love people.
I have a friend I consider very 'expert' as she has worked in city center pubs for 15 years and currently manages one. Her view is that she doesn't trust a nasty drunk when they are sober - that a person's behaviour when drunk has 'something' to do with them and who they are.
Ironically it was when he was drunk D would tell me what was going on in his head, at the time that information was definately needed and I could raise it again when he was sober. After he stopped drinking but had the occasional 'slip', the events, what he said, the result (him going for more help and me knowing more than I had), and at times his own description have left me confident it was a means to let out a cry for help.
No matter what the line of study, no matter how expert the gurus my rule of thumb is that where it gets forgotten that PEOPLE are whole and human I tend to view what's said with scepticism.
To one person that may mean the truth is easier to say, to another that it becomes easier to lie. For some it makes it easier to be abusive, for others easier to say how much they love people.
I have a friend I consider very 'expert' as she has worked in city center pubs for 15 years and currently manages one. Her view is that she doesn't trust a nasty drunk when they are sober - that a person's behaviour when drunk has 'something' to do with them and who they are.
Ironically it was when he was drunk D would tell me what was going on in his head, at the time that information was definately needed and I could raise it again when he was sober. After he stopped drinking but had the occasional 'slip', the events, what he said, the result (him going for more help and me knowing more than I had), and at times his own description have left me confident it was a means to let out a cry for help.
No matter what the line of study, no matter how expert the gurus my rule of thumb is that where it gets forgotten that PEOPLE are whole and human I tend to view what's said with scepticism.
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Originally Posted by equus
It's a disinhibitor....
To one person that may mean the truth is easier to say, to another that it becomes easier to lie. For some it makes it easier to be abusive, for others easier to say how much they love people.
To one person that may mean the truth is easier to say, to another that it becomes easier to lie. For some it makes it easier to be abusive, for others easier to say how much they love people.
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Originally Posted by equus
It's a disinhibitor....
.....Her view is that she doesn't trust a nasty drunk when they are sober - that a person's behaviour when drunk has 'something' to do with them and who they are.
.....Her view is that she doesn't trust a nasty drunk when they are sober - that a person's behaviour when drunk has 'something' to do with them and who they are.
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I like what equus said. Mainly because my ah can be a nasty drunk. With that said, I wouldn't pay any attention to what this TV show said. Mainly because they are probably asking about nonalcoholic people and I believe the difference between the two is night and day. Sure, I've said things I didn't mean when I've had a few two many but never on the level as an alcoholic. Not only was it not on the same level but not with the frequency either.
I'd hate to think that anything my ah has said to me when drunk and I'm talking about the nastiness was true. Some of his words haunt me to this day. Although I'm learning to have my own opinion, words can still hurt and leave lasting scars.
Something standing out right at this moment was him coming home after staying out all night, I was up worried.....I spent all night pacing the floors and as he waltzed in, my day was beginning also since all the kids were starting to wake. He told me I was the biggest mistake he had ever made and he was sick and tired of the daily struggle of coming home to me because I was toxic to anyone I came in contact with. He told me I wasn't capable of loving anyone, ever.
It went on and on but it hurt me deeply. At that time, I was all too accepting of his drunken behavior AND I hardly gave him a hard time. I never stuck up for myself and was forgiving to the point that he didn't even have to apologize. It's sickening how I was back then. So clearly, there was no truth to his words. Besides, each and everyday, he'd tell me how wonderful I was, etc.
Sorry to ramble, all that just came out.
I'd hate to think that anything my ah has said to me when drunk and I'm talking about the nastiness was true. Some of his words haunt me to this day. Although I'm learning to have my own opinion, words can still hurt and leave lasting scars.
Something standing out right at this moment was him coming home after staying out all night, I was up worried.....I spent all night pacing the floors and as he waltzed in, my day was beginning also since all the kids were starting to wake. He told me I was the biggest mistake he had ever made and he was sick and tired of the daily struggle of coming home to me because I was toxic to anyone I came in contact with. He told me I wasn't capable of loving anyone, ever.
It went on and on but it hurt me deeply. At that time, I was all too accepting of his drunken behavior AND I hardly gave him a hard time. I never stuck up for myself and was forgiving to the point that he didn't even have to apologize. It's sickening how I was back then. So clearly, there was no truth to his words. Besides, each and everyday, he'd tell me how wonderful I was, etc.
Sorry to ramble, all that just came out.
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He told me I was the biggest mistake he had ever made and he was sick and tired of the daily struggle of coming home to me because I was toxic to anyone I came in contact with. He told me I wasn't capable of loving anyone, ever.
That sort of thing would bloody haunt me too, it really is about him though not you.
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thanks equus. I'm learning that, I really am. I try to block out thoughts like that because they can bring me to tears to this day. It is about him and I don't find truth in those words but I am still human. It's natural for words to hurt sometimes. Thanks for relating that it would haunt you too!!
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When I read this thread all the mean and hateful things M has ever said to me, drunk, went right through my brain. What she said to didn't come from a chemical, it came from her lubricated lips.
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Jazz, I read your words and thought, "aaahhhhh, I'm ok, even jazz relived a little." Then I read your second sentence and a HUGE smile came to my face. Your adj. just cracked me up for some reason, LMAO.....thanks, I needed the giggle.
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The effects of alcohol on a human brain are non-linear. That means that "one more" when you've only had one this week has a completely different effect than the same "one more" when you've had a dozen this afternoon.
In a completely sober brain, in a completely healthy body with no liver damage, a small percentage of alcohol has that "dis-inhibitor" effect. Note the I use "percentage" because one beer to a 100lb person is very different than the same beer to a 300lb person.
As time and quantity increases the body saturates / fills with alcohol. The liver becomes unable to process the alcohol, the kidneys unable to excrete it. Eventually, the alcohol slowly becomes an _inhibitor_ of brain function.
The easiest way to see this is in young, inexperienced drinkers who arrive at a party. First they become more talkative, less shy (dis-inhibitor), then they get un-coordinated and _less_ talkative (switching to inhibitor) and if they keep drinking they pass out (complete inhibitor)
Just to confuse the issue. The dis-inhibitor effects of alcohol means that they are _less_ likely to restrain themselves from saying what comes to mind, but also less likely to restrain their imagination from fabricating illusions.
So if you're going to try and figure out what the truth is behind the words of an alkie (or addict) you have to have a really good "feel" for where this particular individual is in the progression of their disease. Also bear in mind that some codies (like me ) tend to have our own "reality distortion field" that makes perception of reality in the vicinity of a family member a little tricky.
Mike
p.s. for all the details see http://www.niaaa.nih.gov
In a completely sober brain, in a completely healthy body with no liver damage, a small percentage of alcohol has that "dis-inhibitor" effect. Note the I use "percentage" because one beer to a 100lb person is very different than the same beer to a 300lb person.
As time and quantity increases the body saturates / fills with alcohol. The liver becomes unable to process the alcohol, the kidneys unable to excrete it. Eventually, the alcohol slowly becomes an _inhibitor_ of brain function.
The easiest way to see this is in young, inexperienced drinkers who arrive at a party. First they become more talkative, less shy (dis-inhibitor), then they get un-coordinated and _less_ talkative (switching to inhibitor) and if they keep drinking they pass out (complete inhibitor)
Just to confuse the issue. The dis-inhibitor effects of alcohol means that they are _less_ likely to restrain themselves from saying what comes to mind, but also less likely to restrain their imagination from fabricating illusions.
So if you're going to try and figure out what the truth is behind the words of an alkie (or addict) you have to have a really good "feel" for where this particular individual is in the progression of their disease. Also bear in mind that some codies (like me ) tend to have our own "reality distortion field" that makes perception of reality in the vicinity of a family member a little tricky.
Mike
p.s. for all the details see http://www.niaaa.nih.gov
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Mike - I think your link is broken - it goes to the homepage only rather than the reference for what you wrote. A whole website is a bit like referencing by saying 'it's somewhere I think'.
Being a reference nut could you offer a pointer as to where?
Being a reference nut could you offer a pointer as to where?
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I think you'll find the effects of alcohol on the executive function of the frontal lobes remains as a disinhibition to compulsive behaviour. I'm not 100% sure but I think what you've refered to is rather the stimulant/depressant element.
Falling off your chair to go to sleep is pretty disinhibited behaviour!
Falling off your chair to go to sleep is pretty disinhibited behaviour!
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I got this from a study into alcohol induced aggression in apes... OOOK!
Reference:
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...25-1/12-19.pdf
Some people are more likely than others to become aggressive after consuming alcohol. Researchers studying alcohol use and aggression hope to identify individual differences in behavior and biochemistry that exist among subjects who become aggressive following alcohol consumption. Research with nonhuman primates has shown that individual differences in brain chemistry predict impulsivity, aggression, and alcohol-induced aggression. These differences appear to be associated with early rearing experiences and remain stable throughout the individual’s life.
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...25-1/12-19.pdf
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