Sense of Self?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Sense of Self?
Hi,
I've been going back to Alanon for a couple of weeks (started in feb then stopped for a month or so) and this week's topic was self-respect. As I listened to the various shares, I realised that self respect is difficult for me because I have little innate sense of self. I judge the worthiness/validity/ whatever of many of my thinking, actions and feelings by the reaction/perception of others, I don't know how to do anything different. I'm not sure I have any "instinct" or "gut" to trust, or if I have, I can't hear it and don't know how to listen.
this drives a perfectionism in me - i know I can't please everyone all the time, and I know when I try to please others, it (for me) has beggar all with making them feel good, and everything to do with not making me look bad.
but I am confused by this, both how to find my instinct, and when I have, I surely can't blindly believe that it is always right? after-all I'm sure we can all think of a huge list of people who went with their inner feelings/instinct whatever and reigned terror on others. What is the check? how do you find the balance? If I go with my gut and 1000 people tell me I'm acting like an idiot, surely they may have a point?
I've been going back to Alanon for a couple of weeks (started in feb then stopped for a month or so) and this week's topic was self-respect. As I listened to the various shares, I realised that self respect is difficult for me because I have little innate sense of self. I judge the worthiness/validity/ whatever of many of my thinking, actions and feelings by the reaction/perception of others, I don't know how to do anything different. I'm not sure I have any "instinct" or "gut" to trust, or if I have, I can't hear it and don't know how to listen.
this drives a perfectionism in me - i know I can't please everyone all the time, and I know when I try to please others, it (for me) has beggar all with making them feel good, and everything to do with not making me look bad.
but I am confused by this, both how to find my instinct, and when I have, I surely can't blindly believe that it is always right? after-all I'm sure we can all think of a huge list of people who went with their inner feelings/instinct whatever and reigned terror on others. What is the check? how do you find the balance? If I go with my gut and 1000 people tell me I'm acting like an idiot, surely they may have a point?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
This is the way I see it.
For me there's no quick fix for self esteem - it's just something built over time, something that can be lost if I lose self respect.
Self respect is something different though - I can wake up any day and have it completely, if I lose it I can simply decide to have it back. I think of self respect as:
*The respect I have for my own beliefs and how I show that in my actions
*The respect I have for my own words and how I try to think carefully about them, keep promises, try to be accurate etc
*The respect I have for my body and how I look after it
*The respect I have for my mind and the time to educate it
For me self respect is totally internal, and about giving myself the respect I'd give somebody else Ihad respect for (if that makes sense). The thing that hurts my self esteem the most is when I fail to do that, my self esteem may take a while to recover but my self respect begins as soon as I remind myself to respect myself and live it.
For me there's no quick fix for self esteem - it's just something built over time, something that can be lost if I lose self respect.
Self respect is something different though - I can wake up any day and have it completely, if I lose it I can simply decide to have it back. I think of self respect as:
*The respect I have for my own beliefs and how I show that in my actions
*The respect I have for my own words and how I try to think carefully about them, keep promises, try to be accurate etc
*The respect I have for my body and how I look after it
*The respect I have for my mind and the time to educate it
For me self respect is totally internal, and about giving myself the respect I'd give somebody else Ihad respect for (if that makes sense). The thing that hurts my self esteem the most is when I fail to do that, my self esteem may take a while to recover but my self respect begins as soon as I remind myself to respect myself and live it.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
All parts of me have been damaged by this disease of alcoholism/addiction. So just as recovery takes time, learning to trust my instincts and regaining my self-respect will take time.
Developing a healthy support group of friends that I can discuss my feelings, thinking and possible decisions with will help my instincts grow toward a recovery state of mind.
Self-respect is about respect ourselves. Starting with not calling me names. Example - If I forget to take the clothes out of the dryer, "Rita, you idiot, you forgot the clothes" or "Stupid, you forgot to pickup milk," "My goodness, you look fat in those jeans" - Most of us say those things in our heads - I would never talk to my friends that way - so why do I talk to me that way???
I can just say - "I made a mistake, forgot the milk - I'll go back" "These jeans don't look the best, I'll wear something else"
Recovery is a whole new way of thinking and living - One Day at a Time,
Just my E, S, & H,
Rita
Developing a healthy support group of friends that I can discuss my feelings, thinking and possible decisions with will help my instincts grow toward a recovery state of mind.
Self-respect is about respect ourselves. Starting with not calling me names. Example - If I forget to take the clothes out of the dryer, "Rita, you idiot, you forgot the clothes" or "Stupid, you forgot to pickup milk," "My goodness, you look fat in those jeans" - Most of us say those things in our heads - I would never talk to my friends that way - so why do I talk to me that way???
I can just say - "I made a mistake, forgot the milk - I'll go back" "These jeans don't look the best, I'll wear something else"
Recovery is a whole new way of thinking and living - One Day at a Time,
Just my E, S, & H,
Rita
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Ceri - sorry I haven't replied before now - this is a huge topic for me and I probably need some more thinking time before I can fullt express myself. I have 4 hours driving on my own today, so that should give me ample opportunity!
For me, there are some things that happen that are just "wrong" for me, but I don't always recognise them as such. For example, I remember telling my ex very early on in our relationship that respect, trust and honesty were vital for me to be in a relationship (talk about giving hom the tools to maniuplate me!). It took me 3 years to realise that my depression was largely based on the fact that I was living my life outwith some very basic values of mine. By that time, I had started to learn how to pay attention to what my body and mind was telling me - this I did through the self-inspection that comes with counselling, al-anon and major participation in SR (hence the post count!). My sub-conscious knows what's right for me - I just have to be quiet enough to listen, whether that is taking time out just to have some peace or working actively to quieten the chatter in my own head. Journalling (I have tended to use SR as my journal) is a great way to see the themes and give me a clue to my gut instinct.
I understand your point about if lots of people are telling me something about myself then it must be true. However, I have to say that before believing it, I have to consider the source. Do I respect those people? Do I think they are speaking from a place of sincerity or do they have their own agenda?
Rita - you make a great point about the way I talk to myself. I started a thread called "Inner Critic" last week and have been musing on that ever since. I notice just how many times I say "Stupid girl!" to myself, often out loud. Crikey, if I lived with someone who said that to me as much, I would tell them to not let the door hit them on their way out!
For me, there are some things that happen that are just "wrong" for me, but I don't always recognise them as such. For example, I remember telling my ex very early on in our relationship that respect, trust and honesty were vital for me to be in a relationship (talk about giving hom the tools to maniuplate me!). It took me 3 years to realise that my depression was largely based on the fact that I was living my life outwith some very basic values of mine. By that time, I had started to learn how to pay attention to what my body and mind was telling me - this I did through the self-inspection that comes with counselling, al-anon and major participation in SR (hence the post count!). My sub-conscious knows what's right for me - I just have to be quiet enough to listen, whether that is taking time out just to have some peace or working actively to quieten the chatter in my own head. Journalling (I have tended to use SR as my journal) is a great way to see the themes and give me a clue to my gut instinct.
I understand your point about if lots of people are telling me something about myself then it must be true. However, I have to say that before believing it, I have to consider the source. Do I respect those people? Do I think they are speaking from a place of sincerity or do they have their own agenda?
Rita - you make a great point about the way I talk to myself. I started a thread called "Inner Critic" last week and have been musing on that ever since. I notice just how many times I say "Stupid girl!" to myself, often out loud. Crikey, if I lived with someone who said that to me as much, I would tell them to not let the door hit them on their way out!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by minnie
I understand your point about if lots of people are telling me something about myself then it must be true. However, I have to say that before believing it, I have to consider the source. Do I respect those people? Do I think they are speaking from a place of sincerity or do they have their own agenda?
Like you, I always judged myself by what others said. I had no self respect to mention, so, if everyone thinks this of me, it must be true right? They have no hidden agenda right? They're not projecting their own negative thoughts about themselves onto me are they? Nope...nope...nope....(said with sarcasm)! That's a self destructive thing to do (except for the sarcasm part LOL), especially when you live your life amongst toxic people.
What it 'finally' took for me to see things differently, or to 'consider the source' as Minnie put it, was my last romantic relationship with my exab. Like one's tolerance for alcohol can go up, my tolerance for accepting the unacceptable also went up. That is, until I hit my rock bottom and could take no more.
Slowly, very slowly I might add, I leanred that I've got to be healthy in order to attract what it is I want in my life. I had to learn to value my own thoughts and opinions. I had to learn about setting boundaries about just what is and isn't acceptable to me. And little by little I began to trust my self and my instincts. Sometimes it was one step forward, two steps back. But with each step I took in making decisions and taking action that 'felt right', I was one step closer. I began to learn to trust the most important person in the world....myself! As a result, my self worth and self respect began to rise. I'm no where near where I feel I want to be, however I'm a far cry from where I first started.
As I've begun trusting myself, I find that my gut or my instint is very rarely wrong. To be honest, I can think of only one instance when it was wrong. It always amazes me when my gut proves right. I just had to be quiet enough and have enough faith to listen to it.
It's a work in progress Ceridwen. Sometimes removing ourselves from the negativity in our lives (like negative people), it makes it easier to hear our inner voice. And when that happens on a regualr basis, we begin to trust it. I hope to you begin to trust yours.
Good thread!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Green,green grass of home
Posts: 600
Hi and welcome!!!!
Self-respect to me,is in proportion to self-love,and acceptance of myself.If i continue to relay on what others think about me,then that would be"other-respect,not self-respect.,lol.Plus,if going on only opinons of others ,depends if they are in a good mood or not,is how they think about me.lol.
You have feelings about yourself what are they?Can you seperate your actions from who you are?Example,if youve done something that you feel is of base,can you still respect yourself,and make changes that you feel that you need to make?Or do you tear yourself down,feeling not worthy,and losing respect for yourself?How do you treat yourself?Do you know that your a worthy human being?
Today i pray,and, ask God for direction.I make no decisions until im clear.I go on my gut that has never lied to me.My answers through prayer may not be another persons answers,in situations,but they are mine.Im in a situation,personally that everyone,including Dr,s,have been telling me to do things their way.,in the past.And i went on my gut instead,,and it has all worked out.,through Gods Grace..And the others are shocked how my life is turning out.No one knows Gods plans for another.I beleive that i am given instincts for a valid reason.I totally trust this gut feeling,my instincts,totally.They are God given.
Self-respect to me,is in proportion to self-love,and acceptance of myself.If i continue to relay on what others think about me,then that would be"other-respect,not self-respect.,lol.Plus,if going on only opinons of others ,depends if they are in a good mood or not,is how they think about me.lol.
You have feelings about yourself what are they?Can you seperate your actions from who you are?Example,if youve done something that you feel is of base,can you still respect yourself,and make changes that you feel that you need to make?Or do you tear yourself down,feeling not worthy,and losing respect for yourself?How do you treat yourself?Do you know that your a worthy human being?
Today i pray,and, ask God for direction.I make no decisions until im clear.I go on my gut that has never lied to me.My answers through prayer may not be another persons answers,in situations,but they are mine.Im in a situation,personally that everyone,including Dr,s,have been telling me to do things their way.,in the past.And i went on my gut instead,,and it has all worked out.,through Gods Grace..And the others are shocked how my life is turning out.No one knows Gods plans for another.I beleive that i am given instincts for a valid reason.I totally trust this gut feeling,my instincts,totally.They are God given.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Originally Posted by *Ceridwen
What is the check? how do you find the balance? If I go with my gut and 1000 people tell me I'm acting like an idiot, surely they may have a point?
Here is my check list: When I see a direction open up for myself I ask myself: Where do I think I am going, Why do I want to go there, Is what I want to do illegal or, illmoral, Am I stepping on someone else? I laugh when something I have known for years suddenly becomes the "new" and improved way...
If you are seeking your balance, your truth it may not look like what everyone else is doing. Sometimes everyone else is wrong and you are the only one who is right when it comes to what YOU need or want for yourself. It can be lonely going my own way but, it is better than being bored and frustrated by going with the masses and never knowing if my idea would work or not. Once you get out there in YOUland you will find other explorers and you will be able to share. Give your gut a chance; feel the fear and, do it anyway cause what others think of you is none of your business....
is grateful
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: in my house
Posts: 42
Hey Ceridwen,
Don't be too hard on yourself. Self-respect comes from the ability to think that you're a worthwhile person with worthwhile thoughts. It comes also from the ability to "own yourself" and to own these thoughts.
The fact that you posted here suggests to me that you do have some degree of self-respect already. You have spoken out, believing you have something to bring to the table. You have owned your thoughts by putting your username on them.
Someone who does not have any self-respect will allow someone to put them down and believe that the other person is always right. They will be submissive, passive, shy to the point of having little to think or say about anything whatsoever.
You have said that you do not have a strong sense of self. This, to me, is a paradox. A person that doesn't have a strong sense of self probably won't know they don't have a strong sense of self, because their sense of self is so weak that they aren't able to distinguish themselves from others in order to even perform such a self-evaluation.
Whatever the case, you are asking the right questions. You seem very intelligent and very self-aware, IMO.
Whoever suggested that you ask yourself what you believe and what you like/ don't like, or something along those lines, probably offered the best advice to you. Start with defining your core values. Then work up from there.
For example, do you believe in God? The devil? Heaven? Hell? Do you believe in a cosmic force? How does the world come at you, what do you think about the world as a whole?
These are good questions to start with.
IMO, being open-minded is a great thing ... part of my life's philosophy is to be flexible and versatile, and to be able to see the Big Picture of things. This is why I don't personally subscribe to any one religion.
So, you know, there aren't any right or wrong answers to any of these questions. It's totally up to you.
Have fun exploring!!
Felicity
Don't be too hard on yourself. Self-respect comes from the ability to think that you're a worthwhile person with worthwhile thoughts. It comes also from the ability to "own yourself" and to own these thoughts.
The fact that you posted here suggests to me that you do have some degree of self-respect already. You have spoken out, believing you have something to bring to the table. You have owned your thoughts by putting your username on them.
Someone who does not have any self-respect will allow someone to put them down and believe that the other person is always right. They will be submissive, passive, shy to the point of having little to think or say about anything whatsoever.
You have said that you do not have a strong sense of self. This, to me, is a paradox. A person that doesn't have a strong sense of self probably won't know they don't have a strong sense of self, because their sense of self is so weak that they aren't able to distinguish themselves from others in order to even perform such a self-evaluation.
Whatever the case, you are asking the right questions. You seem very intelligent and very self-aware, IMO.
Whoever suggested that you ask yourself what you believe and what you like/ don't like, or something along those lines, probably offered the best advice to you. Start with defining your core values. Then work up from there.
For example, do you believe in God? The devil? Heaven? Hell? Do you believe in a cosmic force? How does the world come at you, what do you think about the world as a whole?
These are good questions to start with.
IMO, being open-minded is a great thing ... part of my life's philosophy is to be flexible and versatile, and to be able to see the Big Picture of things. This is why I don't personally subscribe to any one religion.
So, you know, there aren't any right or wrong answers to any of these questions. It's totally up to you.
Have fun exploring!!
Felicity
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Ceri - I did have another thought whilst I was driving. I was singing along to an old song on the radio (can't remember which one) and all of a sudden realised what I was singing. Total tosh. And reinforcing all of those old thoughts about needy love and all that baloney. Now, I hadn't heard that song in years yet I still remembered all the words, which got me thinking about the unhealthy messages that I carry in my head all the time.
Seems I have to be a lot more careful about what messages I am feeding into my sub-conscious.
Seems I have to be a lot more careful about what messages I am feeding into my sub-conscious.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
thanks everyone,
there's some really useful and thought-provoking stuff in tyour replies. just checking in to say that as computer at home is bust and can only use computer at work for this sort of thing in lunchtime and after work - I'll print this out and ponder until wednesday when I have time to post again properly
there's some really useful and thought-provoking stuff in tyour replies. just checking in to say that as computer at home is bust and can only use computer at work for this sort of thing in lunchtime and after work - I'll print this out and ponder until wednesday when I have time to post again properly
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