PaperDolls

I knew what you meant Cynay. Some people are sober but still the same miserable person, just not drunk. They don't drink but dont' work on themselves. I think I tried that lots of times before I actually got sober. It does not work. It's miserable, for everyone involved.

And equus - I knew what you meant too......

Five

Its kind of like pschological facisim isnt it? Those at the bottom - the twisted dry drunk wretches, and those at the top, the serene Godly 'selfless ones'. With that vacant, empty look that I used to aspire to.

Cynay

Five I just dont see that at all...

Being serene, Godly one does not make them at the top... I think most people want to have a peace in there lives, they want to approach life with a more healthy outlook....

As is pointed out all the time, AA is not the only way a person can become sober and work toward that peace (or Al-anon since we work toward the same thing) I dont think it makes one better then another, just in different places in growth.

I am much more serene, selfless and closer to God now then I was a year ago or five years ago.... I dont believe I have a vacant, empty look .... Actually I feel I have a sparkle that has been missing for way too long, Im focused on my life, my issues and when I took all that energy that I placed on other people and put it back on myself the growth in my life has been huge. I personally use Al-anon and Theraphy to fine my balance and peace...

Also I would point out that believing in God is my approach, Others believe in something else, perhaps they start to believe in themselves more who knows... but if it gets them to that balance and peace ... IMHO its a GREAT place to be.

equus

It's just a point of view but I think we start to get in a mess when we look at others and infer what is their motivation.

The association of not 'working on self' or not working at 'something' and being a jerk/miserable etc can get read as a circular argument. Being a jerk means have not worked on self, not working on self means being a jerk... and round and round it goes. I'm not saying this is what's been intentionally meant but it 'feels' that way sometimes.

My hubby doesn't do any programme, no meetings, no forums, no set aside time for self examination, no recovery reading, no internet research and for a long time I let that cloud my vision - I felt it was a mistake which would lead to failure. But I don't think that way anymore, yes he might fail - so do people in AA, or those who post, or those who read, or those who set aside time to examine self. Sometimes people lapse and relapse. BUT (and this is the biggy) what I see on a daily basis is someone who listened to their counselling, got work and has become more and more confident that drink isn't needed. What I see is someone who finds they think about or want a drink less and less and instead of all the above 'recovery' methods is simply going about the business of living life responsibly and enjoying it sober.

I think there are a whole host of things which effect the way ANY of us make changes to our lives, but my way - reading, posting and all things examinatory is not the only way. You know sometimes D looks a site more serene than me!!

Five

Different folks for different..cant remember the rest.

Five

Five

Eq - I think your bf may have it sorted ya know. I am sure once you get into this recovery thing you cant get out.

Five

I think people should warn you, as you walk in: this is paradigm change. You may never return to your old self again. Its horrible and defective.

Please leave it at the door and enter you new self.

equus

I dunno Five,

Seems to me that my way of getting better, being here, the reading I do and even the course I chose suits me - it's my way of being as a person. I don't feel trapped or 'morphed' against my will! BUT D's way is his way and it seems to suit HIM as a person.

I talk till the cows come home and used to worry that D doesn't communicate, but that's to forget the hugs, the actions, the support and not to mention the beautiful photographs that express exactly his wonder at the world. We are different and allowed to take different paths - it's such a waste of a beautiful day to spend it considering how wrong someone else's path is and all the awful things that will happen.

I know what I see - that I will trust over 99% of what I hear. What I see is someone going along way just by being - in his OWN way.

Five

I hear you Eq. I hear that loud.

DesertEyes

Five, the people who read this forum are adults and are perfectly capable of deciding which type of recovery is useful to them. You statements are insulting and offensive in that they presume that people are some kind of idiot who will be forever damaged as a result of trying to overcome an addiction.

Please post with respect and stick to the topic of the thread.

Mike

Five

Hey Mike, your probabley right...peace, 5

pmaslan

Thanks Mike...I was struggling with how to interrupt (I usually do)
what Five was trying to convey here.

Back to the original topic here, I agree that it doesn't matter how
someone gets it just as long as they do. It is not up to me to
determine their version of getting it either.
Some require little personal work and seem to thrive...hats off to them.
Others need as many options that are available to them before they get it.

I think that is why so many manufactures create so many different
versions of products on the market...all catering towards personal preference.
Recovery or self help has just as many options...pick one that suits you.
oh of course....IMHO

CatsTail

I've been in A.A for almost 8 1/2 years. i LOVE it the program has totally changed my life.

But.................A.A is not for everyone that's for sure.

Ngaire

meli2005

I think each person is unique and needs are unique. Maybe he needs to try some different AA meetings. I do think they are VERY important for a recovering alcoholic, gives them a support systemwhere they can turn, sponsorship, etc. A lot swear by the higher power helping them to beat the addiction or keep it at bay.

minnie

Did you all know that the majority of problem drinkers stop without any formal programme?

pmaslan

yeah very true but.....here's another way to look at it....
People could lose weight stickly by diet however, a group such as
WW or Jenny Craig is very supportive ...
Codies could read and put into practice what they have learned but
isn't Alanon supportive.....
The point of all of this is whatever it takes to achieve the goal.....
alone, group or a partnership...
Not trying to be a wise ass Minnie....

DesertEyes

Sure, but they don't stop _alone_. Everybody who has ever stopped drinking did so because somebody in their life brought them up short and let them know that their behavior when drunken was unacceptable. Depending on how difficult their withdrawl they also had help from family or medical professionals.

Formal programs, in all their various configurations, are nothing more than a structured organization of the experience of people who have survived and overcome a common challenge. People who stop without a formal program are still making use of an informal group of people around them. It is the power of a _group_, whether church, program, hospital, family or co-workers that makes the difference in any hardship.

As others have said, a _specific_ program is not necessary, but _some_ kind of outside help is. If anybody were capable of stopping an addiction in complete isolation from all other human input, they would simply put it down and never have it become a "problem" in the first place. Those people are called "social drinkers"

Mike

pmaslan

Mike has a much more intense way of describing things......lol

minnie

Mike, can you really know the motivation of everyone who stops? Perhaps a re-read of a thread you posted recently might be helpful.

I have already said on this thread that "something" is important. I have no idea what that "something" is. And I certainly don't believe it requires outside help. After all, recovery is an inside job. I know 4 people in my life who curtailed serious drink and/or drug habits on their own. You know one of them.

I posted that question because I see so many people get hung up about whether or not their loved one goes to meetings. I totally appreciate why meetings help some people - how could I not after my own very positive experience with them?