My life was saved by a pronoun
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 673
For those of us not good yet at separating sharing with being selfish, the use of I/me/my might be a bit tough. I don't want to talk about me all the time. Not only did Mama say that kind of thing precludes listening, but I'm not that interesting. 
However, I get your drift Mike. At its most simple; I will share my story rather than respond with; "you should". Also, I will listen with my whole being and respond only when sharing my story might be helpful to someone in need.
Thanks for this post!
However, I get your drift Mike. At its most simple; I will share my story rather than respond with; "you should". Also, I will listen with my whole being and respond only when sharing my story might be helpful to someone in need.Thanks for this post!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
Thank you for this.
I struggle with this. I read somewhere that it was a symptom if you found yourself constantly trying to explain yourself. I do that. I try to give too much information to set some context of exactly where my thought or question may be coming from. In rereading past posts I can see where I thought I wanted to help or ask a question, but my post reads as self-serving and off topic because I put sooooo much detail into it.
I need to keep this in mind more.
I struggle with this. I read somewhere that it was a symptom if you found yourself constantly trying to explain yourself. I do that. I try to give too much information to set some context of exactly where my thought or question may be coming from. In rereading past posts I can see where I thought I wanted to help or ask a question, but my post reads as self-serving and off topic because I put sooooo much detail into it.
I need to keep this in mind more.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
This is a great post.
It helps to remind me that I am important. When I share my ESH it does make me vulnerable, but it also makes me truthful. I know I always learn so much when I am listening to others sharing their ESH, regardless of where they are in recovery.
I am so grateful the the tools of recovery. What a rich world I get to live in.
It helps to remind me that I am important. When I share my ESH it does make me vulnerable, but it also makes me truthful. I know I always learn so much when I am listening to others sharing their ESH, regardless of where they are in recovery.
I am so grateful the the tools of recovery. What a rich world I get to live in.
Chaotically Peaceful
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: A state of peace
Posts: 322
Wow! Thanks so much for sharing that, Mike. I have recently become aware of the fact that I use the pronoun "you" WAY too much. Even if I am talking about a GENERAL "you" it is still the word "you" which puts people on the defensive and sounds as if I feel that I don't have issues but "you" do.
Loved this post. Thanks again!
Loved this post. Thanks again!
heartofamama
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 70
huh, well i see your point friends, (at least i think i do).
but simply noticing a person using this 'wrong pronoun' repeatedly
is not nearly enough 4 me 2 diminish their offering.
i mean, truly weak & imperfect people sharing their hearts
is what this site is all about.
i like to look beyond the so-called psychology of it all.
there's no need (in my book) to be ideal in one's presentation, in order to be valuable.
often the expression of painful emotional events has us mentally askew,
but not less sincere, nor less meaningful.
having a heart for the suffering folks, is what we're about.
no matter if we think they might be describing their own issues...unawares.
2 some extent, aren't we all?
Grace overlooks defects to just sit down & weep awhile with another's broken heart.
i find that when people think too much, less value is extracted--
because too much care is given to the superficial, the diagnostic elements--
rather than indulging in sheer comfort, person -to-person, soul-2-soul.
forgive me if i've misconstrued the ideas presented.
greetings from new york state.
but simply noticing a person using this 'wrong pronoun' repeatedly
is not nearly enough 4 me 2 diminish their offering.
i mean, truly weak & imperfect people sharing their hearts
is what this site is all about.
i like to look beyond the so-called psychology of it all.
there's no need (in my book) to be ideal in one's presentation, in order to be valuable.
often the expression of painful emotional events has us mentally askew,
but not less sincere, nor less meaningful.
having a heart for the suffering folks, is what we're about.
no matter if we think they might be describing their own issues...unawares.
2 some extent, aren't we all?
Grace overlooks defects to just sit down & weep awhile with another's broken heart.
i find that when people think too much, less value is extracted--
because too much care is given to the superficial, the diagnostic elements--
rather than indulging in sheer comfort, person -to-person, soul-2-soul.
forgive me if i've misconstrued the ideas presented.
greetings from new york state.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 27
I whole heartedly agree with the 'I' in this post and letting people on the forum know that you (or should that be I) understand and have experienced similar situations and that they are not alone is invaluable in supporting others.
I would say though that a definite 'you should' from a very loving and supportive person (in my case my sister) can help towards making the first step towards your own recovery.
My sister and I lived at other ends of the world and barely saw each other for 15 years, finally when we were living close enough for her to see my life on a daily basis she was astounded, but it had become normal for me.
Her first comment when my AH drinking problem came to light was 'you need to see an alcohol counseller for you'. She arranged it all and I turned up at the appointment time.
That first step has led me to where I am now - in no way 'all sorted' but have a direction. YOU was definitely very important to me then and have decided that any advice given in any form is to be listened to - I will however decide which advice to take.
to my sister
I would say though that a definite 'you should' from a very loving and supportive person (in my case my sister) can help towards making the first step towards your own recovery.
My sister and I lived at other ends of the world and barely saw each other for 15 years, finally when we were living close enough for her to see my life on a daily basis she was astounded, but it had become normal for me.
Her first comment when my AH drinking problem came to light was 'you need to see an alcohol counseller for you'. She arranged it all and I turned up at the appointment time.
That first step has led me to where I am now - in no way 'all sorted' but have a direction. YOU was definitely very important to me then and have decided that any advice given in any form is to be listened to - I will however decide which advice to take.
to my sister
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 175
Thank you for posting this. Love it. About a year ago, I decided to make a big effort not to use the word 'you' when communicating with my AH. At first, my goal was to only stop using it at the beginning of sentences, but I found all I did was move it somewhere else - haha. So I tried to stop using it altogether. Although difficult, and sometimes I slip, I've made huge improvements and my communication with him has changed for the better overall. Perhaps from now on, I will try to do this with everyone, not just XAH.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 431
I was about to post a new thread but then I remembered this one and this is what my post is all about:
One that that really grinds on my nerves is when I hear things in meetings or in other places like "we do this..." or "we think that..." or "you seem this..." or "you should do that.."...or "those of you on this forum do this or that".
I don't know about everyone else but for me part of recovery is becoming ME...I am not a part of some royal "we" or some network of rules to follow to become part of the royal "we". So when I read "you on this board do this.." or "we (codies or spouses of A's) do that"...well I immediately tune out the rest of the words because the first thing I think is who is someone else to tell me how I feel, what I think or what my situation is. Only I know what's best for me and I am a unique individual making my own choices.
This is where I think this side of the board (F&F) is very different from the other side for me. As an F&F my main problem was trying to do everything "right", "perfect" and according to the "royal we of shoulds"...letting go of that was what for me personally let me free.
We's and "you's" don't read as ESH to me....for me they read as subtle control...and no I'm not letting myself off the hook, I've been guilty of both in my time posting here and in an Alanon meeting or two (or three!! LOL)...but it's something I now recognize myself doing and try to curb...on the flip side it's also something I stay away from when reading posts or talking to people after a meeting (when I used to attend regularly)...a "we" or a "you" means much less to me than an "I" or an "I feel."
We's and you's feel like shrouded advice to me...is that just me? I guess even if it is just me it's ok because that's how I feel and my feelings are mine to own and they are valid.
PS - I do have to say I don't think just rephrasing with an *I* always gets rid of advice or control if that is what I subtely intended....as I recover more I find myself being more aware of a a real ESH versus a statement (now matter how it's phrased) that is really shrouded advice...and YES I've been guilty of shrouded advice in the past...I now recognize it and I also recognize when it's coming my way...I think I can do that because as I recover I learn to trust my gut and my feelings.
One that that really grinds on my nerves is when I hear things in meetings or in other places like "we do this..." or "we think that..." or "you seem this..." or "you should do that.."...or "those of you on this forum do this or that".
I don't know about everyone else but for me part of recovery is becoming ME...I am not a part of some royal "we" or some network of rules to follow to become part of the royal "we". So when I read "you on this board do this.." or "we (codies or spouses of A's) do that"...well I immediately tune out the rest of the words because the first thing I think is who is someone else to tell me how I feel, what I think or what my situation is. Only I know what's best for me and I am a unique individual making my own choices.
This is where I think this side of the board (F&F) is very different from the other side for me. As an F&F my main problem was trying to do everything "right", "perfect" and according to the "royal we of shoulds"...letting go of that was what for me personally let me free.
We's and "you's" don't read as ESH to me....for me they read as subtle control...and no I'm not letting myself off the hook, I've been guilty of both in my time posting here and in an Alanon meeting or two (or three!! LOL)...but it's something I now recognize myself doing and try to curb...on the flip side it's also something I stay away from when reading posts or talking to people after a meeting (when I used to attend regularly)...a "we" or a "you" means much less to me than an "I" or an "I feel."
We's and you's feel like shrouded advice to me...is that just me? I guess even if it is just me it's ok because that's how I feel and my feelings are mine to own and they are valid.
PS - I do have to say I don't think just rephrasing with an *I* always gets rid of advice or control if that is what I subtely intended....as I recover more I find myself being more aware of a a real ESH versus a statement (now matter how it's phrased) that is really shrouded advice...and YES I've been guilty of shrouded advice in the past...I now recognize it and I also recognize when it's coming my way...I think I can do that because as I recover I learn to trust my gut and my feelings.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hopkins
Posts: 6
CBT meetings
i think it was cbt meetings that i went to in a flurry of counseling i barely remember...i do recall though feeling quite surprised that they emphasised the I in speaking with people...and i went wow..i have used the I for a few years now! it allows the person to feel non threatened, the one that you are talking to....and they are not put on the defensive when using I. when you point the finger and say you, you, you and accuse. it puts all of the blame on them, and they get furious and more angry...which i personally don't blame them for those reactions..i would appreciate people talking to me that way too! new to the SoberRecovery web site here, i hope iam not stepping on anyones toes? really need some help and advice... feel like someone pulled the cork out of the sink drain and i am the water spiraling down so fast that i cant keep up!!!!well thank you all and hopefully i can gain and give some wisdom...mim
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
For a thread that began 8 years ago, it is no coincidence that it appeared before me today...exactly when I need to read it again.
Mike, as always then and now, those are wise words and it is something I shall practice until it becomes natural again.
"I" feel inspired when "I" read what you wrote.
Hugs
Mike, as always then and now, those are wise words and it is something I shall practice until it becomes natural again.
"I" feel inspired when "I" read what you wrote.
Hugs
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