MySecret

Is lying part and parcel of alcoholism? do alcohlics stll lie even if they arent drinking? if so why?? is this ever going to change or are they just like this? do they not understand that honesty would be far better? it hurts people 10 times more with lies especially those close, I have told my AH this till im blue in the face yet he still does it, I take this that he is a selfish person and doesnt give a f*** about me or my feeling casue he still does it, can someone maybe give me a different perspective on this as I am failing to find one?

ChildlikeFaith

I'm right there with you Jen. My AH lies whether he is drinking or not. I've been told that lying is a symptom of the disease which becomes a habit that they must learn to break once they embrace sobriety.

Minx1969

Jen -

StandingStrong posted about this the other day. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...here-vent.html

What Addicts Do

My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.

My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.

My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.

And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.

Stop being surprised.

I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.

ChildlikeFaith

It makes me want to cry because it rings so true.

Thanks Minx

michski

There is no other perspective... you've pretty much summed it up correctly.

WantsOut

Honestly, I had a different experience with my AH. He lied nonstop about drinking because he was ashamed or trying to get away with it (depending on the time of day). But he was honest when he was sober and I can think of only one major lie of omission that he told me during our entire 6-year-marriage.

I say this respectfully not to contradict you and the others but to suggest that there is more to him than just alcoholism. Maybe he's a liar too on top of being an alcoholic.

Pick-a-name

My AH has .or was always a very honest person. One of the things I respected about him the most. With the progression of the disease, I have seen that change. The lying seems to be progressive,too. Maybe because his behavior is getting nuttier and he is trying to cover it. I swear, he may actually believe his own stories after he says them. Very sad.

He also has blackouts, I am now sure. I think sometimes he tries to "cover" for that time he can not remember instead of admitting he has no idea. That must be very frightening.

GettingFree

LaTeeDah posted on another thread that she thinks "the shame and self-loathing they feel is part of the reason they drink."

I think the same is true of why an addict lies -- or for that matter, why anyone lies. For sure, lying is a form of control, but I think the root of it is fear and shame.

Lies are told out of a fear of how others will react or what they will think if they see the truth. Lies are told to avoid conflict or consequences because of wrong-doing. Lies are told as embellishment or grandiositsy because of a fear a person is not good enough or loveable as they are. Lies are told out of a belief system that it's not alright to fail, make a mistake or be weak.

prodigal

It appears to me you've summed it up pretty well. He doesn't give a **** that his lying bothers you. Quit talking about it to him until you're "blue in the face." Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different outcome. Not to say that YOU are insane, but by riding this merry-go-round and expecting him to suddenly get a lightning flash of recognition and say, "You are right, dear, my lying is bothering you and I must find a way to stop it," is an insane idea. It ain't gonna happen. At least not at this point in your life.

And, yes, addicts have a wonderful ability to lie. It's one of their methods of manipulation. They're quite adept at it.

2dayzmuse

When it came to drinking, how much, how often, I lied. I lied about what I did while drinking. I expected people to believe what spewed out of my mouth. If I was falling down drunk, I'd lie and say I hadn't been drinking. It was insane. I think I lied because I hated the fact that I was out of control and was screwing up. I was lying to myself and in denial. The good news is, since I quit drinking, I no longer have to lie. I used to pride myself on honesty. With the progression of the disease the honesty became less and less. I now can be honest again with myself and others. It feels good to know that people can once again trust in my word.

StandingStrong

As Minx pointed out, I just posted Jon's post on another thread. Interesting enough - what I had come to vent about was indeed a situation where son told me something that AH had told him - AH denied it. Point being, the vent I'd originally started typing was about AH's lying which has led to alot of issues (such as lack of trust).

I don't know about alcoholics in general all lying, though I tend to believe as was posted that lying is a form of manipulation. But I believe even moreso it's about covering up what they have or haven't done because they know they messed up. It is fear and shame, etc. But also, I believe that some people (A's or not) just get in the habit of lying.

Regardless....I feel that lying hurts me. Doesn't matter if they are an addict or not. And that's a problem.

ChildlikeFaith

I don't know about all of you, but my AH lies about everything. He even lies about things that have absolutely nothing to do with anything. He'll tell me that he hasn't talked to his mom in days when he just talked to her that morning or that he hadn't eaten since breakfast when he stopped by taco bell for lunch. So it isn't only about drinking or trying to cover up for something. It is about everything. I finally told him that I would no longer believe a word that he said, so I didn't have to worry about dissecting every statement in order to find out what is truth and what is a lie.

laurie6781

All I can say, having been on both sides of this issue is:

As the alcoholism progresses, yes, many alcoholics lie about EVERYTHING. I do believe part of that comes from the fact that when practising, we don't know if we are coming or going. Blackouts, start to occur at any time. We (well at least I) never remembered stuff that had happened in the morning, or the afternoon or the evening.

Yes, some of the lying was certainly (when I look back today) out of fear and shame. But I do believe just as much was from the "warped reality" I was living in. It is really bizzare how over time the alcohol can affect one's mind but it can.

I do believe that anyone involved with a practicing alcoholic or addict must remember, that they will never be #1 in that person's life. That person has an ongoing affair and the person's name is ALCOHOL and/or DRUGS.

I am not saying this as a 'cop-out' for the alcoholics, however, they do reach a point where they no longer can discern between fact and fiction, truth or a lie. It is sad, but it does happen.

Will it change? Can it change? Yes, but it is up to the alkie/addict to first decide that they want sobriety more than anything else, and then second start doing something about it. Even then, fact vs fiction and truth vs lies takes time and more time to become a reality, as the alkie/addict works on themselves.

You Jen will have to set your 'boundaries.' Stick with your 'boundaries' and really just take it One Day At A Time.

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing. Focus on you. Please.

J M H O

Love and (((((to all))))),

Zoey

laurie is right on the black outs. We have no idea what we said, what we ate, nothing. No one knows when someone is in a black out.

I knew one time, I was dancing with Joe, then no memory how I got from the dance floor into the car with a sober driver. (Asked the next day if I rode home with them.) from dancing the next thing I was in my bedroom going to get into bed. How long was the black out I have no idea.

I do think it would be hard to believe or remember that this happens if never been thru it.

Had I sat in a chair drinking a drink and had one or more blackouts, but when came out of it I would never know, as everything the same, still in the same house etc.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents, so glad I wasn't a daily drinker. Binge drinker and not often. Have heard many drunk-a-logs at AA. I never craved, never protected my supply. If I got the third drink I was going to drink all night. Seemed easy for me to understand, don't take the first one.

MySecret

wow that made me cry, I feel very used and stupid. thanks

dax

My alcoholic,27 years sober, will always lie. I guess having an affair with a woman in the program for years would help keep his lying habits going. He even lies when there is no need to. I find it pathetic that so many of his AA buddies think Mr." sofarsogood" is just the shinning example of great recovery. he is lying to them too. So I think the 12 steps are for him anyway-and me- a bunch of crap. Denial. He hides his head in the sand and think all will be ok. dax

denny57

((jen)) I felt that way at first, too. But when I really gave it some thought, it made me feel better. Understanding that an addict just doesn't think the same way due to their addiction is very freeing. None of the rules of "normal" thinking apply. It allowed me to not take it personally (used and stupid) and instead realize it's all part of the disease.

There are plenty of non-alcoholic liars, too. You just never know with an addict what the situation is until they're sober. Don't beat yourself up.

Pick-a-name

Same response I had,too,Denny. It isn't "me".it is alcoholism. Scary I can't "do" anything about it, but same with cancer. I didn't take it as a personal attack when my mother had cancer. AH's brain IS "touched".I try to deal with him as if it is not and I get confused and frustrated expecting him to act in a way he CAN NOT! right now. Years ago when I could see him drink and it change, it was not as big a problem.I KNEW he was drunk and it was just nonsense. Now; it is chronic toxicity....nuttier behavior and thinking but without the overwhelming physical signs. It confuses me when I forget this. I sometimes "forget" because I am still trying to believe it isn't true...........just like he is!