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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 5
New to this.
Hello. I have to tell you I am brand new to this message board or forum thing. I have done chat before but I am not interested in that. I just need some advice and help to understand some things involving recovering alcoholics.
My husband is a recovering alcoholic (sober for 11 years) and we have been together for 7 years total. When I met him, he had been sober for about 4 1/2 years and he would mention that he went to AA meetings once in a while and it was no big deal. He told me that he had gotten 2 DUI's in his past and had basically done some jacked up things so he quit drinking.
I understand a little about AA because my stepfather is also a recovering alcoholic. When he told me about his recovery, I was a little familiar with the whole thing. I had attended Alateen meetings when I was younger.
Anyway, I had no problems with the fact that he (my husband) didn't drink and I understand that some people just cannot handle drinking - at all. My beliefs about alcoholism are not something I want to get into at this point but I have seen it's damaging affects. However, I am a casual drinker myself so it was atually unlike me to date a guy that didn't drink. My husband knew that I drank sometimes when he met me and he did not seem to have a problem with it. In fact, he and I would go out once in a while to a club or s party and he would buy me drinks ! I didn't force him to take me or anything, he said he was ok with it. Besides, it isn't like I was out (or am) every night getting loaded. When we met, I was in school and worked 2 jobs, I was too busy to go out very often. There was a time in my past when I frequented the bar scene but at 29 years old, I was over it. Nonetheless, everything went well and our relationship progressed into a marriage in 2002. We had a little girl in 2004 and things were going well.
About 6 months after our daughter was born my husband had an incident occur at work and was asked to go speak with a therapist (mandatory) about the incident. Well appearently in this meeting, the therapist helped him discover that the reason he was having personality issues (anger etc..) was because he was a dry drunk and had not been attending meetings. By the way, I NEVER once told or asked him not to go to AA meetings. I even went to a few with him at one point. His non-attendence was his choice. Anyway, the therapist suggested that he go back to meetings so that he will be easier to get along with etc.... Well, being that my husband never does anything in moderation, he decided he was going to do 90 meetings in 90 days. He didn't bother telling me that part at first, he just started going every night to meetings. Keep in mind, I am a first time mom with a 6 month old and a full time job. I am a teacher and my job requires extra work at home and lI have loads of responsibility. Needless to say, I was not happy. Not only was he gone all of the time, but this meant he wasn't doing much around the house and I had the responsibility of caring for our daughter every evening by myself. This was not a great thing because after working at school all day with teenagers with learning and emotional disabilities, I tended to be emotionally drained and my daughter seemed to be at her worst behaviorally each night. After a while, I had to say something about this because I was keeping all this anger in and it was not healthy. After he and I talked it out, he said he would cut back on the every night meetings and take care of his responsibilities at home. He did cut back to 3-4 meetings a week. Ok, fine. No biggie. Well, it was all well and good for the most part. Once in a while he would start to go more often and I had to speak up once again and he would slow down. But basically, he would go to 3 meetings Monday thru Friday alone and then once in a while on weekends. This was wonderful and convenient for him, but not for me. You see, he pretty much did wha the wanted every night and I stayed home with the baby. Oh yeah, except for the nights I would have graduate classes to attend, then he would stay with our daughter.
The next thing you know, we are playing relay tage and passing the baton(baby care) off back and forth. When he was hoime I was at work or school. The rest of the time he was at meetings, the gym, going to yard sales every Saturday morning. Life was going pretty well for him. The only thing he had to do was drop our daughter off at my mom's during the week and pick her up on the way to and from work as he had been doing since she was 3 months old.
Then on top of it all, he decides earlier this year that we were going to go house hunting and buy a house. We had talked about doing it this year but I was thinking more along the lines of June (like we had previously discussed). So we look and find a house. Now it is time to pack (not an easy task). Well, as you can imagine, I was doing a lot of that by myself while he was gone off doing his thing. Oh, I also forgot to mention, when he is home, he is on the computer...a lot that is a whole other issue we have had discussions about as well. He was supposedly packing the upstairs (which is all he did) while I packed the rest of the condo. Come to find out when we moved, he really hadn't packed much. I ended up working my butt off moving day packing his crap - and as I said earlier, he is a garage sale collector.
All the while I was going to extra classes on Satuedays (mandatory) for work and taking care of our 1/2 year old when I wasn't at work. We moved in to the new place in April and basically, I have had it at this point. I am at my wits end. Before school got out, I was the only person doing a majority of the cleaning and unpacking. I will admit that at one point, he cut back on the meetings because we were moving and his condo had to be celaned out and ready for it's new owners and we had many things to do at our house - that was ok. things were going well. Then after we were here for aq couple of months, I was becoming stressed out even more because I didn't know where to put HIS crap. Then there is the yard work. I do part of that as well. He was doing that more, but recently he hasn't done jack in that area either.
Currently, I am finally out of school (turned in my last graduate course paper last week) and I do have more time. I get that, but I do not feel I should have to do EVERYTHING. We recently got into a heated argument because I again had to tell him that stuff was not getting done and I need a participant father/husband. He became very defensive and tried to pin things back on me calling me a procrastinator and all that - yeah.. I have my issues too. He also said I had been very "snappy" over the last few weeks and that my moods had been bad. I guess they were considering the amount of work I had been doing. I had the end of school (my job), the end of graduate class (finals) and unpacking a house on top of having a 2 year old (and planning her 2 year birthday party). Yes... I may have been just a tad moody. Yep, imagine that - me in a bad mood. HELLO !!! Can you possibly see why????? I was getting absolutely nothing out of him. No consideration, no empathy, no help. I felt he could care a less. So anyway, I stated that we needed to seek counseling that this was not working for me. All he had to say was - and I quote - "I am not changing my schedule". Let me also clarify that I never once asked him to stop going to AA - NEVER. I simply asked for him to do some things around the house that I cannot do by myself like hang shelves, hook up the Home theatre system and unpack his crap. He in turn tried to turn it around and blame me and accuse me of procrastinating on finding a gift for my dad (and him) for Father's day. I have been basically putting up with his day to day selfishness for quite a while now and I am over it. I am at the point where I do not care and I feel I have done just about all I can do. Someone, please help me understand how a person can just crap on his family like this. I read about the "put sobriety first thing" that AA calls for and I agree that is great if your just starting the program. But after 11 years??? I am just finding it hard to believe that he needs that much support after 11 years. I also find it interesting that the therapist said he would be a better person and be able to control his temper better if hwe went back to meetings. BS - he is worse now than ever and has been for over a year. I keep waiting for the serenity - but I have yet to see it. He still blows up at the smallest of problems and treats me like a doormat. Maybe he shouldn't have gotten married and had a child because I am sorry, he needs to put us first - especially our child. He is teaching her that daddies walk out the door while mommies do all of the work. If he was financially supporting us by himself, I could see me doing most of the work, but he isn't. As a matter of fact, he is very 50/50 aqbout everything,. He barely spends a dime on anyone else but himself. He buys some food (and I do too) but he will even ask "how we are going to split it up" in the line at the grocery store - embarrassing. Should I start thinking of divorce?
My husband is a recovering alcoholic (sober for 11 years) and we have been together for 7 years total. When I met him, he had been sober for about 4 1/2 years and he would mention that he went to AA meetings once in a while and it was no big deal. He told me that he had gotten 2 DUI's in his past and had basically done some jacked up things so he quit drinking.
I understand a little about AA because my stepfather is also a recovering alcoholic. When he told me about his recovery, I was a little familiar with the whole thing. I had attended Alateen meetings when I was younger.
Anyway, I had no problems with the fact that he (my husband) didn't drink and I understand that some people just cannot handle drinking - at all. My beliefs about alcoholism are not something I want to get into at this point but I have seen it's damaging affects. However, I am a casual drinker myself so it was atually unlike me to date a guy that didn't drink. My husband knew that I drank sometimes when he met me and he did not seem to have a problem with it. In fact, he and I would go out once in a while to a club or s party and he would buy me drinks ! I didn't force him to take me or anything, he said he was ok with it. Besides, it isn't like I was out (or am) every night getting loaded. When we met, I was in school and worked 2 jobs, I was too busy to go out very often. There was a time in my past when I frequented the bar scene but at 29 years old, I was over it. Nonetheless, everything went well and our relationship progressed into a marriage in 2002. We had a little girl in 2004 and things were going well.
About 6 months after our daughter was born my husband had an incident occur at work and was asked to go speak with a therapist (mandatory) about the incident. Well appearently in this meeting, the therapist helped him discover that the reason he was having personality issues (anger etc..) was because he was a dry drunk and had not been attending meetings. By the way, I NEVER once told or asked him not to go to AA meetings. I even went to a few with him at one point. His non-attendence was his choice. Anyway, the therapist suggested that he go back to meetings so that he will be easier to get along with etc.... Well, being that my husband never does anything in moderation, he decided he was going to do 90 meetings in 90 days. He didn't bother telling me that part at first, he just started going every night to meetings. Keep in mind, I am a first time mom with a 6 month old and a full time job. I am a teacher and my job requires extra work at home and lI have loads of responsibility. Needless to say, I was not happy. Not only was he gone all of the time, but this meant he wasn't doing much around the house and I had the responsibility of caring for our daughter every evening by myself. This was not a great thing because after working at school all day with teenagers with learning and emotional disabilities, I tended to be emotionally drained and my daughter seemed to be at her worst behaviorally each night. After a while, I had to say something about this because I was keeping all this anger in and it was not healthy. After he and I talked it out, he said he would cut back on the every night meetings and take care of his responsibilities at home. He did cut back to 3-4 meetings a week. Ok, fine. No biggie. Well, it was all well and good for the most part. Once in a while he would start to go more often and I had to speak up once again and he would slow down. But basically, he would go to 3 meetings Monday thru Friday alone and then once in a while on weekends. This was wonderful and convenient for him, but not for me. You see, he pretty much did wha the wanted every night and I stayed home with the baby. Oh yeah, except for the nights I would have graduate classes to attend, then he would stay with our daughter.
The next thing you know, we are playing relay tage and passing the baton(baby care) off back and forth. When he was hoime I was at work or school. The rest of the time he was at meetings, the gym, going to yard sales every Saturday morning. Life was going pretty well for him. The only thing he had to do was drop our daughter off at my mom's during the week and pick her up on the way to and from work as he had been doing since she was 3 months old.
Then on top of it all, he decides earlier this year that we were going to go house hunting and buy a house. We had talked about doing it this year but I was thinking more along the lines of June (like we had previously discussed). So we look and find a house. Now it is time to pack (not an easy task). Well, as you can imagine, I was doing a lot of that by myself while he was gone off doing his thing. Oh, I also forgot to mention, when he is home, he is on the computer...a lot that is a whole other issue we have had discussions about as well. He was supposedly packing the upstairs (which is all he did) while I packed the rest of the condo. Come to find out when we moved, he really hadn't packed much. I ended up working my butt off moving day packing his crap - and as I said earlier, he is a garage sale collector.
All the while I was going to extra classes on Satuedays (mandatory) for work and taking care of our 1/2 year old when I wasn't at work. We moved in to the new place in April and basically, I have had it at this point. I am at my wits end. Before school got out, I was the only person doing a majority of the cleaning and unpacking. I will admit that at one point, he cut back on the meetings because we were moving and his condo had to be celaned out and ready for it's new owners and we had many things to do at our house - that was ok. things were going well. Then after we were here for aq couple of months, I was becoming stressed out even more because I didn't know where to put HIS crap. Then there is the yard work. I do part of that as well. He was doing that more, but recently he hasn't done jack in that area either.
Currently, I am finally out of school (turned in my last graduate course paper last week) and I do have more time. I get that, but I do not feel I should have to do EVERYTHING. We recently got into a heated argument because I again had to tell him that stuff was not getting done and I need a participant father/husband. He became very defensive and tried to pin things back on me calling me a procrastinator and all that - yeah.. I have my issues too. He also said I had been very "snappy" over the last few weeks and that my moods had been bad. I guess they were considering the amount of work I had been doing. I had the end of school (my job), the end of graduate class (finals) and unpacking a house on top of having a 2 year old (and planning her 2 year birthday party). Yes... I may have been just a tad moody. Yep, imagine that - me in a bad mood. HELLO !!! Can you possibly see why????? I was getting absolutely nothing out of him. No consideration, no empathy, no help. I felt he could care a less. So anyway, I stated that we needed to seek counseling that this was not working for me. All he had to say was - and I quote - "I am not changing my schedule". Let me also clarify that I never once asked him to stop going to AA - NEVER. I simply asked for him to do some things around the house that I cannot do by myself like hang shelves, hook up the Home theatre system and unpack his crap. He in turn tried to turn it around and blame me and accuse me of procrastinating on finding a gift for my dad (and him) for Father's day. I have been basically putting up with his day to day selfishness for quite a while now and I am over it. I am at the point where I do not care and I feel I have done just about all I can do. Someone, please help me understand how a person can just crap on his family like this. I read about the "put sobriety first thing" that AA calls for and I agree that is great if your just starting the program. But after 11 years??? I am just finding it hard to believe that he needs that much support after 11 years. I also find it interesting that the therapist said he would be a better person and be able to control his temper better if hwe went back to meetings. BS - he is worse now than ever and has been for over a year. I keep waiting for the serenity - but I have yet to see it. He still blows up at the smallest of problems and treats me like a doormat. Maybe he shouldn't have gotten married and had a child because I am sorry, he needs to put us first - especially our child. He is teaching her that daddies walk out the door while mommies do all of the work. If he was financially supporting us by himself, I could see me doing most of the work, but he isn't. As a matter of fact, he is very 50/50 aqbout everything,. He barely spends a dime on anyone else but himself. He buys some food (and I do too) but he will even ask "how we are going to split it up" in the line at the grocery store - embarrassing. Should I start thinking of divorce?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anywhere,USA
Posts: 511
Wow...
I think you need to see a marriage counselor ASAP...esp if you're thinking of divorce.
But, I can also relate...I remember those days as I had the second child and everything was so overwhelming...
Flat out you need to ask for his help.
Men can be so blind to the needs of the work required to maintain a household.
Or you could suggest that he pay for a housekeeper...
but you need help there and quick, girlfriend!
As far as the issue of meetings...I don't know what to say...I've been in recovery for almost 5 years and have gotten to a point that I don't attend many anymore...but in the beginning I did do sometimes more than one per day...
If he's not working a program...and is simply not drinking...then maybe he needs to be there a lot...
Perhaps you could also try ALANON...
I think you need to see a marriage counselor ASAP...esp if you're thinking of divorce.
But, I can also relate...I remember those days as I had the second child and everything was so overwhelming...
Flat out you need to ask for his help.
Men can be so blind to the needs of the work required to maintain a household.
Or you could suggest that he pay for a housekeeper...
but you need help there and quick, girlfriend!
As far as the issue of meetings...I don't know what to say...I've been in recovery for almost 5 years and have gotten to a point that I don't attend many anymore...but in the beginning I did do sometimes more than one per day...
If he's not working a program...and is simply not drinking...then maybe he needs to be there a lot...
Perhaps you could also try ALANON...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
Hi despartate-
Please copy this post over friends and family forum..you will get more responses this way.
I would recommend you try Alanon as well..Alanon is for US..it is a way for us to learn how to deal with someone in sobriety and for us to get better as well..
There are plenty of meetings with childcare and children are welcome..
Sometimes if we change our behaviors things start to get better at home...
Alot of your post is about him, him him but I'm also seeing some controlling behaviors on your part...
I'm sure there are plenty of alanon meetings where you are from since Virginia Beach is the World Headquarters
anyway, post over in F2F as well..
Please copy this post over friends and family forum..you will get more responses this way.
I would recommend you try Alanon as well..Alanon is for US..it is a way for us to learn how to deal with someone in sobriety and for us to get better as well..
There are plenty of meetings with childcare and children are welcome..
Sometimes if we change our behaviors things start to get better at home...
Alot of your post is about him, him him but I'm also seeing some controlling behaviors on your part...
I'm sure there are plenty of alanon meetings where you are from since Virginia Beach is the World Headquarters
anyway, post over in F2F as well..
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 689
Welcome dsprate,
I can so very well understand your frustration. I have three children, a lot older than yours is now (mine are in their teens & early twenties), and I know the kind of stress you're under juggling motherhood, a demanding job and grad school.
First of all -- you're not delusional. All your senses about the unfairness of your situation are dead on. Other than extenuating circumstances such as disability, etc, there is no excuse for two parents, who both work, not to share more or less equally in the care of children and household responsibilities.
In a healthy relationship, partners are motivated to do this out of care and respect for one another, as well as out of a dedication to their children, wanting to have quality -- and quantity -- time with them. In a healthy relationship, the balance may shift from time to time as one or other of the partners has more demands placed on them, but it balances out in the end.
To continue in the way your are is headed for burn out and a marriage full of resentment and bitterness.
I was divorced almost 10 years ago, and I also can say it is easier being a single parent and doing all the work than living with someone and doing most of the work. The stress of carrying around the frustration and resentment of someone opting out of their commitment tips the balance. The emotional drain is enormous. Even though I ended up doing technically more on my own, I felt much better when I KNEW it was just me responsible, than living with continual frustration of being let down and hoping my H would share more.
I would suggest you seek your own therapist or counsellor. You have a lot going on here, and although marriage counselling may be helpful, clearly your husband is not responsive, and I think sorting out what you want and focusing on you is pretty important now. Getting the support you need, for you.
As to your husband's meetings and sobriety, AA has clearly helped many people become sober and stay that way. However, it is NOT therapy. It is a support group and a recovery program. My view of a dry drunk is someone who is sober but hasn't dealt with the underlying issues that led to addiction. From your description, there is a lot going on with your H that he hasn't dealt with. He is not managing his life, he is running from it. He doesn't sound like a healthy individual to me. He may be sober, but for me recovery is about healing a whole person.
One other thing, and I hesitate to say this, but I'll go ahead. Is there any reason to suspect a relationship with someone -- a 13th step? The combination of his daily meeting attendance, combined with persistant computer use, would send up flags to me. It's really hard to understand why someone with such a young child would walk out the door every evening.
best,
gf
I can so very well understand your frustration. I have three children, a lot older than yours is now (mine are in their teens & early twenties), and I know the kind of stress you're under juggling motherhood, a demanding job and grad school.
First of all -- you're not delusional. All your senses about the unfairness of your situation are dead on. Other than extenuating circumstances such as disability, etc, there is no excuse for two parents, who both work, not to share more or less equally in the care of children and household responsibilities.
In a healthy relationship, partners are motivated to do this out of care and respect for one another, as well as out of a dedication to their children, wanting to have quality -- and quantity -- time with them. In a healthy relationship, the balance may shift from time to time as one or other of the partners has more demands placed on them, but it balances out in the end.
To continue in the way your are is headed for burn out and a marriage full of resentment and bitterness.
I was divorced almost 10 years ago, and I also can say it is easier being a single parent and doing all the work than living with someone and doing most of the work. The stress of carrying around the frustration and resentment of someone opting out of their commitment tips the balance. The emotional drain is enormous. Even though I ended up doing technically more on my own, I felt much better when I KNEW it was just me responsible, than living with continual frustration of being let down and hoping my H would share more.
I would suggest you seek your own therapist or counsellor. You have a lot going on here, and although marriage counselling may be helpful, clearly your husband is not responsive, and I think sorting out what you want and focusing on you is pretty important now. Getting the support you need, for you.
As to your husband's meetings and sobriety, AA has clearly helped many people become sober and stay that way. However, it is NOT therapy. It is a support group and a recovery program. My view of a dry drunk is someone who is sober but hasn't dealt with the underlying issues that led to addiction. From your description, there is a lot going on with your H that he hasn't dealt with. He is not managing his life, he is running from it. He doesn't sound like a healthy individual to me. He may be sober, but for me recovery is about healing a whole person.
One other thing, and I hesitate to say this, but I'll go ahead. Is there any reason to suspect a relationship with someone -- a 13th step? The combination of his daily meeting attendance, combined with persistant computer use, would send up flags to me. It's really hard to understand why someone with such a young child would walk out the door every evening.
best,
gf
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
Welcome to sober recovery!
Might I ask, does he have an AA book, does he mention a sponser, does he mention doing a fourth and fifth step.?
This sounds a bit strange, yes, if he had alcohol in his system all this time it would be different. Then they have so much to learn and how to live sober.
Might I ask, does he have an AA book, does he mention a sponser, does he mention doing a fourth and fifth step.?
This sounds a bit strange, yes, if he had alcohol in his system all this time it would be different. Then they have so much to learn and how to live sober.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by dsprate4answrs
Hello.My beliefs about alcoholism are not something I want to get into at this point
I may be off base with all of it. You may find it hard to believe he needs support because he has done this many times duing your relationship. Only you know your AH and your situation. You mention a long time ago you attended Alateen. I'd recommend Al-Anon.
Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
Do u thonk he would like to come here to SR and share his experiences, strengths and hopes with us?
Hi Im Sharon and Im an Alcoholic.
I havent had a drink of alcoholic since Aug. 11 '90 and for that I am truely grateful.
I got sober back in Baton Rouge, La. 15 yrs ago and moved here to Houston 9 yrs ago. The move was basically a Miracle in my book that happened. anyway...the move was a job transfer for my spouse and thus a great opportunity for our 2 kids education wise. That most of all has been a plus in our lives.
As for as my recovery...sure i miss my AA support back home more than u know. Did i connect here in Houston? Sadly no. But i have been to meetings here just nothing compared to the first 6 yrs. of my recovery back then.
However i did connect here online to AA emmediately as a life line to AA. Staying connected anyway i could to my program has kept me sober one day at a time. I do share my ESH with many here in SR since i found this site last Dec. It has been absolutely wonderful to be here amongst so many caring supportive people in recovery.
So i need to say thank u for being here for me.
I can certainly understand ur situation, because its reversed here in my family where im the one in recovery. My spouse supports my recovery and doesnt work my program even tho he wishes he could. and then ive tried to work his as well...so he thinks he has one because he went to one or 2 al-anon meetings way back when. : )
We r married 24 yrs now and it has been a roller coaster of a ride for us as well. We go thru normal marital problems just like most do. Our situation like urs with one in recovery makes it a sticky situation.
Marriage counciling may help. We went to several sessions to find out about my chemical imbalance which was a yr ago. and i finally got that addressed and has made a world of difference in our marriage. Altho its hasnt fixed everything in our relationship because im still a recovery alcoholic and he's the so call al-anon.
Anyway....
Reading ur share sounded so familiar to my own life. So i thank u for sharing to let me know im not alone here with marriage problems and recovery.
11 yrs is nothing to sneeze at and would have to agree with the message Clancy 46 wrote up above.
Just because i have a few yrs sober doent mean i can EVER let my guard down when it comes to Alcohol. I have to constantly work on mantainance with my program. EVERYDAY...to apply the tools of recovery that were so freely given to me. If i dont practice the principles of AA in my daily affairs....and which sometimes i am a slacker....I am just a dry drunk and i can feel it. And the rest of the family can feel it too sad to say.
See if he would like to come here to share if he's not going to face 2 face meetings like me. At least here he can help otheres on a daily bases and take care of his family as well.
Just a suggestion of course.
Thanks for letting me share.
Hi Im Sharon and Im an Alcoholic.
I havent had a drink of alcoholic since Aug. 11 '90 and for that I am truely grateful.
I got sober back in Baton Rouge, La. 15 yrs ago and moved here to Houston 9 yrs ago. The move was basically a Miracle in my book that happened. anyway...the move was a job transfer for my spouse and thus a great opportunity for our 2 kids education wise. That most of all has been a plus in our lives.
As for as my recovery...sure i miss my AA support back home more than u know. Did i connect here in Houston? Sadly no. But i have been to meetings here just nothing compared to the first 6 yrs. of my recovery back then.
However i did connect here online to AA emmediately as a life line to AA. Staying connected anyway i could to my program has kept me sober one day at a time. I do share my ESH with many here in SR since i found this site last Dec. It has been absolutely wonderful to be here amongst so many caring supportive people in recovery.
So i need to say thank u for being here for me.
I can certainly understand ur situation, because its reversed here in my family where im the one in recovery. My spouse supports my recovery and doesnt work my program even tho he wishes he could. and then ive tried to work his as well...so he thinks he has one because he went to one or 2 al-anon meetings way back when. : )
We r married 24 yrs now and it has been a roller coaster of a ride for us as well. We go thru normal marital problems just like most do. Our situation like urs with one in recovery makes it a sticky situation.
Marriage counciling may help. We went to several sessions to find out about my chemical imbalance which was a yr ago. and i finally got that addressed and has made a world of difference in our marriage. Altho its hasnt fixed everything in our relationship because im still a recovery alcoholic and he's the so call al-anon.
Anyway....
Reading ur share sounded so familiar to my own life. So i thank u for sharing to let me know im not alone here with marriage problems and recovery.
11 yrs is nothing to sneeze at and would have to agree with the message Clancy 46 wrote up above.
Just because i have a few yrs sober doent mean i can EVER let my guard down when it comes to Alcohol. I have to constantly work on mantainance with my program. EVERYDAY...to apply the tools of recovery that were so freely given to me. If i dont practice the principles of AA in my daily affairs....and which sometimes i am a slacker....I am just a dry drunk and i can feel it. And the rest of the family can feel it too sad to say.
See if he would like to come here to share if he's not going to face 2 face meetings like me. At least here he can help otheres on a daily bases and take care of his family as well.
Just a suggestion of course.
Thanks for letting me share.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Highlands, TX
Posts: 1,192
Hi there and welcome. My name is Kellye and I am a recovering alcoholic. Reading your post my thoughts and feelings were all over the place as I have lived both sides of the coin. I have been the non-alcoholic wife of a practicing alcoholic and then later I was the active alcoholic and now I am the single, recovering alcoholic (confused yet LOL!)
Anyway, speaking from the alcoholic standpoint, I know that AA is crucial to my continued recovery and making meetings is a priority for me. I know how I get when I put meetings on the backburner and it's scary! Your AH may have 11 years sober but if he wasn't doing meetings and was dry then I can totally understand why he was trying to do 90 in 90 to get back on track.
Speaking as a former wife to an AH I also can identify with the resentment you are feeling. Speaking as a mother (of course mine are older than 2 they are now 19 and 16) I can identify with the workload you are under as I was a working mom (with a househusband) and carried the financial load for 7 years (marriage #1 - not alcoholic - but with other problems).
It is normal, I would say, to feel resentment when you are treated unfairly. To feel pissed when you are doing the lion's share of the work and the other person does very little. I totally agree that it is way easier being a single parent KNOWING that everything is your responsibility than to live in a relationship that should be a partnership but is not.
I got the feeling in reading your post that your AH is hiding from responsibility by using meetings, being online, procrastination as excuses to not participate in day to day life (which is there whether we are alcholics or not - the world does not stop!) and refusing to pull his fair share at home except when you raise cain at him. You are not his mother and you should not have to beg for something that should be part of a marriage contract anyway and certainly part of being a responsible parent.
Now, to you. I would HIGHLY suggest Al-Anon to you both for face to face support from others who have been in your shoes as well as a mechanism for you to learn to live your life in spite of what's going on. It's time to focus on YOU. What do you want? What are you willing to do? What are you willing to compromise on? What are non-negotiables with you (otherwise known as boundaries)? How can you learn to live happily in spite of other people? It looks as though you have tried to talk about this and negotiate it and possibly try to control it and nothing has worked. You cannot change or control another person' actions but you can change or control you r own. There are no easy answer to what you're going through but I think you owe it to yourself to educate yourself, seek support and then from a basis of knowledge make decisions about your own life and that of your child.
I hope this makes sense at least a little. As I said, I see this from several angles but I also see the pain you are in. I wish you the very best in however you choose to handle this.
Hugs,
Kellye
Anyway, speaking from the alcoholic standpoint, I know that AA is crucial to my continued recovery and making meetings is a priority for me. I know how I get when I put meetings on the backburner and it's scary! Your AH may have 11 years sober but if he wasn't doing meetings and was dry then I can totally understand why he was trying to do 90 in 90 to get back on track.
Speaking as a former wife to an AH I also can identify with the resentment you are feeling. Speaking as a mother (of course mine are older than 2 they are now 19 and 16) I can identify with the workload you are under as I was a working mom (with a househusband) and carried the financial load for 7 years (marriage #1 - not alcoholic - but with other problems).
It is normal, I would say, to feel resentment when you are treated unfairly. To feel pissed when you are doing the lion's share of the work and the other person does very little. I totally agree that it is way easier being a single parent KNOWING that everything is your responsibility than to live in a relationship that should be a partnership but is not.
I got the feeling in reading your post that your AH is hiding from responsibility by using meetings, being online, procrastination as excuses to not participate in day to day life (which is there whether we are alcholics or not - the world does not stop!) and refusing to pull his fair share at home except when you raise cain at him. You are not his mother and you should not have to beg for something that should be part of a marriage contract anyway and certainly part of being a responsible parent.
Now, to you. I would HIGHLY suggest Al-Anon to you both for face to face support from others who have been in your shoes as well as a mechanism for you to learn to live your life in spite of what's going on. It's time to focus on YOU. What do you want? What are you willing to do? What are you willing to compromise on? What are non-negotiables with you (otherwise known as boundaries)? How can you learn to live happily in spite of other people? It looks as though you have tried to talk about this and negotiate it and possibly try to control it and nothing has worked. You cannot change or control another person' actions but you can change or control you r own. There are no easy answer to what you're going through but I think you owe it to yourself to educate yourself, seek support and then from a basis of knowledge make decisions about your own life and that of your child.
I hope this makes sense at least a little. As I said, I see this from several angles but I also see the pain you are in. I wish you the very best in however you choose to handle this.
Hugs,
Kellye
How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 612
hello-
I hear a huge amount of frustration, anger, and hurt in your post.
This is exactly the state of mind we get into when we live with an alcoholic. (even a non-drinking alcoholic). We start to feel unloved, unappreciated, and victimized... This is why family members need to follow their own program of recovery - to help us find peace of mind in the midst of a great deal of chaos.
I can tell that you are a super-responsible person (you're doing most of the work at home), and probably a high-achiever (you mention graduate school). Smart, capable people sometimes have a very hard time accepting that they play a part in the family dynamic around this terrible disease of alcoholism.
I suspect you would prefer to hear all the ways in which your husband can be fixed or cured. (most of us feel that way when we first find our way to the SR community) Sadly, we family members don't have much control over the disease or recovery process of our loved ones.
But there is great news! You have a lot of control over your own recovery - you can find peace of mind by following the principles of Al-anon.
Keep coming back here. You will find a lot of help and support.
You're not alone.
I hear a huge amount of frustration, anger, and hurt in your post.
This is exactly the state of mind we get into when we live with an alcoholic. (even a non-drinking alcoholic). We start to feel unloved, unappreciated, and victimized... This is why family members need to follow their own program of recovery - to help us find peace of mind in the midst of a great deal of chaos.
I can tell that you are a super-responsible person (you're doing most of the work at home), and probably a high-achiever (you mention graduate school). Smart, capable people sometimes have a very hard time accepting that they play a part in the family dynamic around this terrible disease of alcoholism.
I suspect you would prefer to hear all the ways in which your husband can be fixed or cured. (most of us feel that way when we first find our way to the SR community) Sadly, we family members don't have much control over the disease or recovery process of our loved ones.
But there is great news! You have a lot of control over your own recovery - you can find peace of mind by following the principles of Al-anon.
Keep coming back here. You will find a lot of help and support.
You're not alone.
Caring for the 3 little bears
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
Desparate, I have felt exactly the same way. I have 4 children, 2 then 10 years later 2 more. First of all, praise God he isn't drinking. Things would be so much worse than they are now. I am not saying you should be full of greatfulness and forget about the other stuff.
A program for you should help with your own serenity. Alanon, a support group, counseling, many churches these days have small intimate groups. I have found for me these help tremendously.
90 meetings in 90 days is a very common thing, especially for newcomers to the program. You may not think of him as a newcomer, but if he hasn't "worked" the program, the 12 steps, etc then he is like a newcomer.
My husband was in and out of AA for the past 9 years and continued to drink off and on. This past year, he has made a commitment to go to a meeting every day as a matter of fact he goes to 9 a week. He is working the program and does finally have serenity. Five of those meetings are during the day so it doesn't interrupt "family" time. Two are in the evenings during the week one of which he leads. We have family night Wed night and Friday night. On Saturday's he goes to a 12 noon or 8pm meeting, whichever fits our schedule that particular Saturday.
Regarding the running of the household, I have felt EXACTLY the same way. In some of my support groups I learned that he and not to stereotype, but many men don't "see" things that need to be done the way we do. I learned the hard way I have to communicate better. It was very hard for me to accept that he couldn't "see" and simply know what needed to be done, and I thought that was a cop out at first - but after talking to many others in the same boat I realized men and women truly are different. I started communicating differently and things have gotten better. I say things like "I need your help doing ______" since men like to "fix" things, this is a good way to start a conversation. Things still aren't perfect, but he is trying more.
For years it seemed I was the "nagger" and he was lazy. Since I have learned how to communicate better, things are better.
I hope somehow this has helped. I hope you can work on YOU and what you have control over actually changing. You can't change him. But you can change your behavior. Maybe do some real soul searching, read some books about codependency and start living a more serene life! You deserve it!
Take care!
A program for you should help with your own serenity. Alanon, a support group, counseling, many churches these days have small intimate groups. I have found for me these help tremendously.
90 meetings in 90 days is a very common thing, especially for newcomers to the program. You may not think of him as a newcomer, but if he hasn't "worked" the program, the 12 steps, etc then he is like a newcomer.
My husband was in and out of AA for the past 9 years and continued to drink off and on. This past year, he has made a commitment to go to a meeting every day as a matter of fact he goes to 9 a week. He is working the program and does finally have serenity. Five of those meetings are during the day so it doesn't interrupt "family" time. Two are in the evenings during the week one of which he leads. We have family night Wed night and Friday night. On Saturday's he goes to a 12 noon or 8pm meeting, whichever fits our schedule that particular Saturday.
Regarding the running of the household, I have felt EXACTLY the same way. In some of my support groups I learned that he and not to stereotype, but many men don't "see" things that need to be done the way we do. I learned the hard way I have to communicate better. It was very hard for me to accept that he couldn't "see" and simply know what needed to be done, and I thought that was a cop out at first - but after talking to many others in the same boat I realized men and women truly are different. I started communicating differently and things have gotten better. I say things like "I need your help doing ______" since men like to "fix" things, this is a good way to start a conversation. Things still aren't perfect, but he is trying more.
For years it seemed I was the "nagger" and he was lazy. Since I have learned how to communicate better, things are better.
I hope somehow this has helped. I hope you can work on YOU and what you have control over actually changing. You can't change him. But you can change your behavior. Maybe do some real soul searching, read some books about codependency and start living a more serene life! You deserve it!
Take care!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 5
WOW. Thanks so much for the response.
To everyone who responded to my post - thank you so much. I did not expect so many responses and for them to be so positive. I expected at least one person to say I was being unsupportive and delusional etc... I have to say, it made me feel loads better to even write the post (bless your hearts for taking the time and reading it , it must have taken days). As soon as I can figure out how to respond to each of them seperately, I will respond to a couple that asked me questions (if I can). But overall, I think the most popular advice was for me to attend an Al-Anon meeting which is pretty much what I had already thought to do. Things are on the upswing around here (for this week anyway) but I agree there is a lot of damage here. I hope everyone understands that I don't want him to stop going to meetings, I have no problems with that. I just have a problem with how much time her spends away from the home because he is attending meetings. Anyway, some of you brought up some very good points.
Thanks again to your many responses.
T
Thanks again to your many responses.
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 5
Clancy,
Hello. Yes, he has several AA books. He hasn't mentioned a 4th or 5th step recently. He has told me a little about the steps in the past. I will be honest, because he was 4 years sober when I met him and has been sober for 11 years now, I just really haven't discussed the steps with him. I honestly didn't realize he had to study them so close (or whatever it is he does at meetings) after 11 years. I always thought the 12 steps were what you did as you were going through the initial part of recovery (the actual stop drinking and learning to live part). I just figured after 11 years he needed meeting attendence for maintenance (for lack of a better word). I am trying to study up further on the program myself so that I can better understand. Thanks again for the response.
T
Hello. Yes, he has several AA books. He hasn't mentioned a 4th or 5th step recently. He has told me a little about the steps in the past. I will be honest, because he was 4 years sober when I met him and has been sober for 11 years now, I just really haven't discussed the steps with him. I honestly didn't realize he had to study them so close (or whatever it is he does at meetings) after 11 years. I always thought the 12 steps were what you did as you were going through the initial part of recovery (the actual stop drinking and learning to live part). I just figured after 11 years he needed meeting attendence for maintenance (for lack of a better word). I am trying to study up further on the program myself so that I can better understand. Thanks again for the response.
T
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
Hi,
If he's sober but not working a program then he is what we refer to as a dry drunk.
He's basically acting like a drunk without the alcohol.
It's perfectly legit to expect your husband to participate in running your household.
Ngaire
If he's sober but not working a program then he is what we refer to as a dry drunk.
He's basically acting like a drunk without the alcohol.
It's perfectly legit to expect your husband to participate in running your household.
Ngaire
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Highlands, TX
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by dsprate4answrs
Clancy,
I honestly didn't realize he had to study them so close (or whatever it is he does at meetings) after 11 years. I always thought the 12 steps were what you did as you were going through the initial part of recovery (the actual stop drinking and learning to live part). I just figured after 11 years he needed meeting attendence for maintenance (for lack of a better word). I am trying to study up further on the program myself so that I can better understand.
T
I honestly didn't realize he had to study them so close (or whatever it is he does at meetings) after 11 years. I always thought the 12 steps were what you did as you were going through the initial part of recovery (the actual stop drinking and learning to live part). I just figured after 11 years he needed meeting attendence for maintenance (for lack of a better word). I am trying to study up further on the program myself so that I can better understand.
T
I still make a lot of meetings but not to the exclusion of household responsibilities.
I am glad to hear things are better and that you are seriously looking at Al-Anon. I am sure you will find it very helpful. They also have sponsors and work the same 12 steps so if you do this you will get your education on the steps LOL! Granted, the steps aren't the only way to sobriety (emotional, addiction, or otherwise) but they literally saved my life. I know others who have never dealt with addiction who feel that everyone would benefit by living them just because of the principles behind them.
Anyways, I'm glad you updated us on how things are going and I hope you will continue to do so!
Hugs,
Kellye
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
desperate4, In our AA groups, too many just put the plug in the jug.
They hear, 'don't drink and go to meetings" Many stay sober that way, but I suspect they keep their old ways in lots of things.
Then too I have read everything I could find on the difference between male and female.
I think if we ask them to take out the garbage and they say "Sure" they mean it right at the time, but then the thought is gone. Just me, but I feel they do not have the ability to file all that extra info like the females do.
Their brain files are filled with their work. (Men are what they do) Females I think are daughters, wives and mothers, work is not who we are. I loved my job, got good reports on my work, but that was not who I was. (Always exceptions) Exceptions in both male and female.
Back to fileing to do in our brain, after work things, they are thinking of sports, or someone getting a newer or better car.
This is not a critisim (sp) of men, I love them very much. Just that acceptance makes it easier.
At work if they have a secretary I would have to think that makes it harder for them to even think of makeing coffee or run errends etc etc.
I am getting carried away here , but one more little thing. Men cannot or will not write things down, if someone called for me and my hubby answered and it was someone he didn't joke with and the voice said call Jane, it was forgotten replaceed with something important.
I feel if we accept this difference we can find ways to work with it. At least not get angry or hurt. Just like I am incapable of lifting 200 lbs, they are incapable of some things.
If I call for an appointment, then put it on the bathroom mirror, I see it once, then it fades into the decor, unless I have to wash the mirror. but the fact I wrote it down, sorta keeps it in mind. It is filed in my cluttered brain.
I know with childern it would be hard to spend time working with the situation. Take what you can use and leave the rest. Al-Anon will be a great help. hugs
They hear, 'don't drink and go to meetings" Many stay sober that way, but I suspect they keep their old ways in lots of things.
Then too I have read everything I could find on the difference between male and female.
I think if we ask them to take out the garbage and they say "Sure" they mean it right at the time, but then the thought is gone. Just me, but I feel they do not have the ability to file all that extra info like the females do.
Their brain files are filled with their work. (Men are what they do) Females I think are daughters, wives and mothers, work is not who we are. I loved my job, got good reports on my work, but that was not who I was. (Always exceptions) Exceptions in both male and female.
Back to fileing to do in our brain, after work things, they are thinking of sports, or someone getting a newer or better car.
This is not a critisim (sp) of men, I love them very much. Just that acceptance makes it easier.
At work if they have a secretary I would have to think that makes it harder for them to even think of makeing coffee or run errends etc etc.
I am getting carried away here , but one more little thing. Men cannot or will not write things down, if someone called for me and my hubby answered and it was someone he didn't joke with and the voice said call Jane, it was forgotten replaceed with something important.
I feel if we accept this difference we can find ways to work with it. At least not get angry or hurt. Just like I am incapable of lifting 200 lbs, they are incapable of some things.
If I call for an appointment, then put it on the bathroom mirror, I see it once, then it fades into the decor, unless I have to wash the mirror. but the fact I wrote it down, sorta keeps it in mind. It is filed in my cluttered brain.
I know with childern it would be hard to spend time working with the situation. Take what you can use and leave the rest. Al-Anon will be a great help. hugs
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 689
Sorry, little off-topic,
Clancy, I do believe men and women are different in many ways. But I don't accept that men, as a gender, are particularly challenged in retaining information and acting on it.
I've worked with many, many men who are very detailed oriented and very process driven. They make copious notes, write detailed contact reports, write excellent briefs, send detailed emails and ensure everyone who needs to be informed is informed at the right times. I've also worked with men who are lousy at it. And similarly, I've worked with lots of women, some of who are good and some of who are poor at it. The reasons why are complex I believe and have roots in many things.
I have three children: two boys and a girl. Well, two young men and a young women (24, 21, 18). My daughter is the worst at taking messages and following through on household chores. Her two older brothers are far better.
What I do accept is that men have been culturally trained to place more significance on house than on home and to define their identity more by their work than by their relationships.
Most importantly, despite the huge gains made by women in the last 50 years, we still have a society in which many men are trained to see the care of home and children as primarily the domain of women.
I don't think that men are incapable of writing things down or keeping information -- it's a matter of training and conditioning. Expect that from them and they won't. Which leads me to ask....isn't that enabling?
Just a thought or two.
Clancy, I do believe men and women are different in many ways. But I don't accept that men, as a gender, are particularly challenged in retaining information and acting on it.
I've worked with many, many men who are very detailed oriented and very process driven. They make copious notes, write detailed contact reports, write excellent briefs, send detailed emails and ensure everyone who needs to be informed is informed at the right times. I've also worked with men who are lousy at it. And similarly, I've worked with lots of women, some of who are good and some of who are poor at it. The reasons why are complex I believe and have roots in many things.
I have three children: two boys and a girl. Well, two young men and a young women (24, 21, 18). My daughter is the worst at taking messages and following through on household chores. Her two older brothers are far better.
What I do accept is that men have been culturally trained to place more significance on house than on home and to define their identity more by their work than by their relationships.
Most importantly, despite the huge gains made by women in the last 50 years, we still have a society in which many men are trained to see the care of home and children as primarily the domain of women.
I don't think that men are incapable of writing things down or keeping information -- it's a matter of training and conditioning. Expect that from them and they won't. Which leads me to ask....isn't that enabling?
Just a thought or two.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
GE, I usually say exceptons to everything, and each person is different. I glanced back and I said exception once, thought I said twice.
I do hope desperate4 understands I was just shareing my thoughts and she can take what she likes and leave the rest. I said that.
I didn't understand about enabling. But never mind. We both need to help the newbie, and I feel it is a lot for them to obsorb. Many ways to think about things and none right or wrong.
I worked for a big corp, the Managers lots of times said, wait I have to have my girl help with this. They made notes, but that was business, have no idea if they did it at home. Think the wife called and reminded them when it had to do with home and kids.
I lived in a different world. Glad your boys are good, hope they don't pick up bad habits from the big boys.
Sorry everyone for high-jacking
I do hope desperate4 understands I was just shareing my thoughts and she can take what she likes and leave the rest. I said that.
I didn't understand about enabling. But never mind. We both need to help the newbie, and I feel it is a lot for them to obsorb. Many ways to think about things and none right or wrong.
I worked for a big corp, the Managers lots of times said, wait I have to have my girl help with this. They made notes, but that was business, have no idea if they did it at home. Think the wife called and reminded them when it had to do with home and kids.
I lived in a different world. Glad your boys are good, hope they don't pick up bad habits from the big boys.
Sorry everyone for high-jacking
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 689
Originally Posted by Clancy46
They made notes, but that was business, have no idea if they did it at home. Think the wife called and reminded them when it had to do with home and kids.
By enabling I meant this:
One can choose to detach and accept a partner who does not share in the responsibilities of home and children -- "Yup, my partner doesn't assume a lot of responsibility in regards to the home or the kids and I've decided to accept that for my own sanity". That's an individual choice.
But it's another thing to detach and accept by saying "Oh, men are like that, so I'll accept it because he can't be different." This will certainly reinforce and further the behavior and remove responsibility from that person. In this way it seems like enabling to me.
But yes, I agree. Take what we need and leave the rest. And we can have some lively discussion along the way!
best
gf
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