Zoey

Acceptance is always for our own sanity IMO. If I don't accept people for some things I stay away, they are not going to change for me. If I have done something wrong I make amends.

With family, acceptance doesn't mean not trying to come to some agreement, Maybe make amends for sounding like a nag, admit it is frustration because we expect help. We EXPECT ours to be like others, well we prob couldn't live with those others or love them.

mallowcup

I've come to believe that there is no such thing as a casual driner. Just a lighter drinker as compared to some. A casual drinker wouldn't mind not drinking for love. I have read many posts here about people who say they are casual drinkers yet have a hard time giving up that casual drink. Is it about the compromise or the drink? Only you can answer. I know a guy who quit and he went with his wife while she enjoyed a casual drink. She didn't drink everyday but she sure celebrated a lot of holidays. Like Mondays and full moons. Alcohol is garbage.

mallowcup

Forgive me but you seem extra critical of him and extra fogiving of yourself. You say you were a bit moody, well I don't know anyone in their final days of college with all the heat on that wasn't a raging bitch, including myself. He was doing what he needed to do, it was about him, not you. I suppose it is a matter of perspective. If her were having chest pains would you expect him to hold off until it worked for you. I see a clear message here. YOU DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM OR TAKE HIS ALCOHOLISM SERIOUSLY SO HE DIDN'T TAKE YOUR DEGREE SERIOUSLY. You see, his sobriety is his degree. Marrriage is never never about one person. It is a union.

denny57

I just don't see how you can differentiate it. It's like saying, I don't mind that you are getting your degree, but do you need to take so many classes to get it? Are you doubting he needs that many meetings and is using them as an excuse to be away from the house? No one can control another person's recovery. A recovery program of your own might be helpful to understand this.

Good luck.

dsprate4answrs

I have to disagree and sgree with you here - I feel like I did and do fully support him and his recovery. I just have a hard time believing that after 11 years of sobriety, he NEEDS to participate in so many AA meetings. But it really isn't where he goes all of the time that matters to me, it is just how much he goes. He spends way too much time away from home and his reponsibilities that he signed up for when he got married (formed the union). Yes, marriage is never (or should never be) about one person and it is a union - I totally agree. I wasn't going for a degree for myself - In fact, I wasn't going for a degree at all. I was taking courses because the state requires me to take these courses to earn a license to teach so I can keep my job that provides income to enable us to afford a lifestyle he and I both have become accustomed to. What I was doing WAS about US - not ME. I was being a raging bitch, your daggone right ! I think I have reason to be.

I am posting a new thread with more on this subject below. I do appreciate your opinion. It is food for thought.

dsprate4answrs

After reading some new posts, I thought I would add some more info. Because of what mallowcup stated - "Marriage is a union" - it brought to mind why I was/am having a problem with his constant removal of himself from the house. I know he "had to do what he had to do" - I get that. But did he really need to be gone so much at such a critical time for our family? There were a lot of other things going on at that time besides me finishing college classes, we were in the middle of a move into a house also. Yes, Marriage is a union and, in my opinion, this means it requires dual responsibility. I was very willing to work out a feasible schedule so that he could attend his meetings, but he chose to just do what he wanted to do. So your daggone right I was a "raging bitch", I will fully admit it. I had (and have) had enough of being left with most of the home and child raising reponsibilities. I tried asking nicely, I tried being a bitch. Nothing seems to work. Now, I am at the point where I am pretty much unresponsive. My number one priority is my child - as it should be. Beacause it is the summer and I have more time to get things done, it has calmed down around here. But September will be here before you know it and I will be back to work and back to doing all of this stuff around the house in my spare time. Great!

It wasn't and isn't the fact that he was going to meetings that was pissing me off - it was that he was/is still doing everything else he wanted to do also (going to the gym, going to yard-sales etc..) If his recovery is HIS number one priority, he should have given up some of HIS other activities, right? - I've sure had to. I didn't and don't get to have a social life or participate in extracurricular activities because I have a two year old and my job is my social life. Which as a teacher, I am around kids all day so adult conversation is at a minimum so it isn't really social.
This lack of social life was especially true when I had other responsibilities (such as school to finish up and moving into a new home) that were pertinant. I wasn't going to school to get a degree, I was going because the state of Virginia requires me to take a certain amount of coursework to earn a license to teach, I need this license to keep my job that gives me (and us) income.


Anyway, I think this forum is a great opportunity to express our concerns and opinions, but it is impossible to fully explain and for others to understand our situations. My first posting did sound pretty negative - I know that - but I had to get it out!

Now I have to run because my little girl is awake, I have to put her need for attention and a diaper change before my need to vent. That is what parenting is all about.

I will be back when I get some time. There have been some new developments.

ASpouse

Now I know I'm going to get into trouble here, but personally I think you are acting quite selfishly and childish.

So, you have asked him to give up stuff (Garage Sale shopping, complaining he is never home to 'help" out etc.)

Life changes, we have to change with it. What have you given up in order to lessen your burden? The key word here being "YOU" ..... I see what you've asked him to do and give up, but what have you given up?

This is not an issue about his drinking, dry-drunk behavior (if that is what it is, it doesn't sound like it to me), it sounds more of a marriage/communication issue.

ASpouse

No, AA teaches, at least what my husband tells me, that you fit it into your life.

Alcoholics, recovering, need to be busy all the time. It's their idle time that gets most of them in trouble.

I had raised my children virtually by myself. My daughter for 11 years before my husband became sober and my son for 3 years. Now I could have bitched about, become moody, been angry, but in reality the only people my bitchiness, moodiness and anger would have affected is ME and the children.

My children adore their father, the time he spends with them is cherished. Remember it's not the amount of time spent, it's the quality of the time spent. You are drawing battle lines and your daughter is caught right in the middle and if she isn't now, she sure will be in the future. BTDT!

denny57

I don't believe anyone can manage another's recovery. I don't know what anyone else NEEDS to recover. I learn in my own recovery - in Al-Anon - to accept what is. Is this really about AA meetings or about your expectations of what a husband should do and be? Perhaps joint counseling to see what it's all about.

mk9903

I'm still trying to grasp this entire subject of alcoholism. Ok, Husband is gone all the time and not helping her. He does whatever he wants to do without regard to her.
She is feeling resentment that she is doing everything. She is working, keeping up her teaching, keeping up the household, and taking care of the baby by herself. She has no spare time to "give up", but feels that he does.
I can understand that.
Even though he is going to the meetings...it may be hard work, but he is still socializing, and I'm sure he has made some friends. It seems that he has a social-life outside their home, so why shouldn't she? She is tired, lonely, frustrated, and mad. She deserves alittle time to enjoy herself and wants him to help by freeing up some of his time. He helped create the baby. I don't feel that is alot to ask. I think he's doing great by continuing his sobriety, but also that he may be slacking on family responsibility.

ASpouse

You can understand her resentment? I can't.

Meetings are 1 hour a day + driving time. So maybe 1 1/2 hours a day?

You know for me, I make my own social life. If my H is with me, great, if not it's certainly not necessary for him to be "stuck" to me or to make me complete as a person.

Let's see, my husband works 2 jobs, goes to meetings 4 days a week.

I own a home, 2 children ages 6 and 14, 6 dogs. I do the laundry, cook meals, go food shopping, cut the grass and maintain the landscaping, take care of the pool, go to dog training, play games with kids, work full time, pay the bills, do the banking and talk to my H on the phone more than I do in person.

Do I resent him? No because all of these things were my choice. If this poster did not want to buy a house at that time of the year, why did she go along and do it? Why not just say "I'm not ready yet, I want to wait until June".

One shouldn't agree to do something they do not want to do, then turn around and complain they're doing it all. If she never opened her mouth to say "NO" then these are the circumstances of her actions.

Unless there are details missing here, she did not have to go along and buy the house and set herself to be overwhelmed with the work involved with homeownership. This is something that should have been discussed and she might have asked why he changed his mind from June to January.

To me, this entire situation sounds like lack of communication skills on both of their parts.

LaTeeDa

I have to agree with you, Judy. And I will probably get into trouble too, but I hear a lot of "victim talk" in these posts. (And, believe me, I only recognize it as such because I have been there)

Poor me, he doesn't do his share.
Poor me, he gets to have fun and I don't.
Poor me, I have all the responsibility.

It's not about trying to get him to change. It's about changing your attitude and your behavior. Stop being a victim. Stop being the martyr. I realize that's a hard pill to swallow, again because I have been there.

It does absolutely no good to say "you need to be home more", "you need to do more work around the house", you need to spend more time with me/child." What WILL work to change your circumstances is changing yourself. Plan your own activities, plan your own fun, and let him know that you will be doing x on this day and time. He will be responsible for being there with the child during that time, just as you are when he is gone. Plan this around his meetings. Get out and live your life. If the house gets dirty, so what? I'm not saying you should stop doing your share, I'm saying stop doing MORE than your share. Let the rest go. Let the pendulum swing a little the other way until it comes to a reasonable balance.

Try it. What have you got to lose? I also agree that marriage counseling might help.

L

mk9903

I don't think the issue is the homeowning. Regardless of what you live in ( a house, apartment, condo...) there is always going to be housework of some kind (laundry, dishes, cleaning...etc).
I believe she is upset that she does not get time to relax and enjoy herself- whether it be by herself, or the two of them together- away from children.
I don't think she needs him 24 hours a day and is stuck.
Yes, she could change careers (to get away from children, and work with adults)...but why does she have to? That is their income.
Yes, she could drop the baby off with babysitters (when he isn't available)...but why should she have to? Not all people drop their children off wherever.
They are married. All I'm saying is the husband helped create the baby and extra responsibilities and should help in taking care of those responsibilities.
I don't feel that the husbands life is more important than hers and that he is so fragile, that he will 'break' if he has to help with the baby or spend time with his wife. If that's the case, he needs more help than those meetings.
I just don't think he wants to be responsible. I apologize if I sound insensitive ...and I have been known to be....but I don't feel sorry for him because of his alcoholism. If she can do the work, so can he.

fartheralong

I think there needs to be help on both sides. Someone once posted something when I had come back to SR and it hit home really hard.

You accept them as they are today. Period. If you can't--that's your problem not theirs. I'm personally proud of your hubby on the fact he is sober and working a program with such dedication. Does it suck, yes.

Should husbands share in housework? yardwork? childcare? Damn straight, and many do. Mine did ot the point it shocked my 86 year old grandmother then when he helped me do dishes one Sunday afternoon. and to be honest, the man was a much better housekeeper than I'll ever lay claim to. but that was before...

but as the drinking progressed so did his slack and my resentment. And wow can i see where I was in your (Desperate's) posts. From what all I've learned, recovery is HARD.

People are going to do or not do whatever they want, no matter what we as spouses, best friends, siblings, parents ask, beg, plead, bitch otherwise. It's on them. (whether it's drinking, drugs, eating sugar when they're diabetics, missing meds when they're bipolar, or simply not doing...whatever) You can MAKE NO ONE change. But hey, if it makes you feel more stressed, go ahead, try some more. Lord knows I did, tried and tried and tried in every way imaginable until I realized I was someone I dind't know or like. And then I slowly dug in my heels and let him go--I'm still letting go, I was more emeshed than I realized (not in a good way either).

I've got two kids (one who is five and hubby has been sliding further down since he was born), a house, 80+ acres to keep up with, dogs, cats, a job to get acredited for (read subbing full time while also getting my TX certification within this year) and I still have my writing job and deadlines, promo-ing and updating to stay on top of. Bills have to be paid and kids have to go to school. Would it be easier and more money to take the clerical work with benifits? In a way, but then there's the kids and day care through holidays and summers and and and. Honey, there's always an 'and'.

you know what? the yard gets over grown, the house is a mess half hte time and THAT'S OKAY. One thing I learned at very early age: perfect houses, do not make perfect homes.

I've at least learned that the weight on my shoulders is only as heavy as it needs to be, not what I 'want' it to be. could I drop some of the 'stuff?" yep.

Maybe you should check out: Melodie Beattie's: Co-Dependent No More. Cause sweetie, we really can't control anyone and anything but ourselves.

Hugs to you and good luck,
FA

ASpouse

MK, not to argue with you but ...

I've only seen this scenario on TV .... it certainly isn't real life, at least not my real life.

So it's OK for her to be so demanding and expect him to change and she has to change nothing?

Life happens. When you have children and both parents work, there has to be a contingency plan in place so that you have a reliable sitter and both parents can continue to work. It's not like she is dropping the child off "wherever" ...... I always have 3 people available to me if one is unable to help me with my youngest.

I agree, however this is unrealistic .... we still live in a society where Ward and June Cleaver are role models. If the responsibility of taking care of their daughter is to be divided, then a conversation needs to take place, with specific boundaries and specific responsibilities. It cannot be done helter skelter and when she feels like it.

No one said or implied that his life is more important than hers and no one said he is fragile and that he will break. You are making assumptions and reading between the lines.

I disagree. I think he wants to be responsible as he knows how to be and the poster wants him to be responsible the way she wants him to be. Um, I think we could call that 'controlling'.

Good because you shouldn't and I'm sure he wouldn't want anyone to feel sorry for him because he is a RA. It's his life now, he will always be known as an alcoholic, recovering. It is something he will need to work at for the rest of his living days. It doesn't sound as if his wife will be OK with this though, unless of course it is on her terms.

ASpouse

Amen to that and it sure is much better than living with an active alcoholic.

mk9903

I'm sorry. I don't get this. The only thing I see is that the posters husband is being responsible for 1 thing (outside of work), and that is remaining sober?
So whatever he needs to do, in order to remain sober, is ok?
But she has to bear the rest of the responsibilities? (even though he helped create the rest)
She has to schedule her life, and the childs life - around him, as if he's not even there? (even though they are together and he could help if he wanted)

So either way, she has to change her lifestyle because he absolutely will not? (and its ok because he has an excuse)

I give up. I tried. I don't know what to think about this. I guess I'll have to agree to disagree.

I like all of you on here, I just don't understand I guess. Thanks for your support.

LaTeeDa

The point here is not whether it is right or wrong. The point is she CANNOT change him. None of us can change another person to suit us. She can only change herself. I can only change myself. Changes I make in my thinking and behavior may have a ripple effect in changing others in my life, but they may not. Either way, it is futile to try and change other people. Either you will fail straight up, or you will succeed temporarily and cause them to resent you. Those are the only two possible outcomes.

L

pmaslan

I totally agree and you couldn't have explained it better in my book!

ASpouse

Absolutely!

Only if it is her choice to do it this way. There are other ways to think about it instead of "I do it all". I do not recall her ever posting saying that he absolutely will not change his lifestyle.

This is all a matter of communication mk ... she needs to communicate her needs and wants to him in a calm, adult manner. To sit and stew and be mad, be kind, be bitchy, be nasty is playing games. Calmly sit an ask for what you want and need. Maybe she'll get what she wants and needs, maybe she'll only get part of what she wants and needs and maybe she'll get none .... but at least she will know she has behaved like an adult and asked calmly. After this is all said and done, if she still is not happy with it, then she can make a decision as to how she wants her life to go ..... divorce, stay, work it out ..... whatever .... but the CHOICE will be hers to make and HERS to live with. It will, have nothing to do with him at all.