What do I do
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by JessicaNAJ
You know what I just thought of....he says a lot of things that gives me hope. I need to figure out a way to not fall into that. How do I stop listening?
That's how it was for me.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seeking Peace
Posts: 1,371
Jessica,
I really think that I understand how you feel and why you have handled things they way you have...because I see SO MUCH of myself in your situation.
My exah is an alocholic and drug addict. We have a child together. For a LONG time, I allowed myself to believe his promises. He would say things that gave me hope and honestly, at that point, I WANTED to believe that there was hope. I didn't want to let go of my marriage or my idea of what our life was SUPPOSED to be like. I had this idea in my head that exah was going to come around...and all I had to do was pray and stand by his side and eventually, things were going to be okay.
I was SO AFRAID to let go. Afraid that if I let go, my exah would slip further into his addiction and end up dead or homeless. I took on the responsiblity of being his compass...always trying to point him in the right direction...and when he didn't go in the direction I wanted, I would try another way to convince him...and then another...and then another...and it never seemed to work. Finally, I realized how very POWERLESS I was over his choices...nothing I did or said was going to make a difference. NOTHING!!
I see alot of myself in your posts because you also seem to feel responsible for your ah's sobriety. What are you afraid of Jessica? Are you afraid of being alone? Or are you afraid that your ah will get worse without your help and guidance? Fear is holding you back from doing what you KNOW you must do. Maybe it will help you to identify your fears. To this day, I live in fear that my exah will kill himself or die of an overdose. I live with the fear daily. This fear used to prevent me from doing things to improve MY life. Gradually, I learned that whatever happens to exah will be as a result of HIS choices...I had to admit that I was powerless over what my exah did with his life and let go of my struggle to 'save' him. Although the fear is still there...I don't let it dictate my actions. Once I admitted this fear...and acknowledged it...I found that it lost its power over me.
You can't 'save' him Jessica.
You know this in your head, I think...but you also need to know it in your heart. The 'help' you are offering him (a place to live, sleep and eat) is only making it easier for him to continue what he is doing. Your good intentions are preventing him from feeling the consequences of his drinking. You are, quite simply, enabling him. I understand. I did it for a long time not even realizing it. It takes love...not fear...to let go. Love for yourself...and love for him.
Hugs to you Jessica...
I know none of this is easy...
But YOU can do it. You really can!!
I really think that I understand how you feel and why you have handled things they way you have...because I see SO MUCH of myself in your situation.
My exah is an alocholic and drug addict. We have a child together. For a LONG time, I allowed myself to believe his promises. He would say things that gave me hope and honestly, at that point, I WANTED to believe that there was hope. I didn't want to let go of my marriage or my idea of what our life was SUPPOSED to be like. I had this idea in my head that exah was going to come around...and all I had to do was pray and stand by his side and eventually, things were going to be okay.
I was SO AFRAID to let go. Afraid that if I let go, my exah would slip further into his addiction and end up dead or homeless. I took on the responsiblity of being his compass...always trying to point him in the right direction...and when he didn't go in the direction I wanted, I would try another way to convince him...and then another...and then another...and it never seemed to work. Finally, I realized how very POWERLESS I was over his choices...nothing I did or said was going to make a difference. NOTHING!!
I see alot of myself in your posts because you also seem to feel responsible for your ah's sobriety. What are you afraid of Jessica? Are you afraid of being alone? Or are you afraid that your ah will get worse without your help and guidance? Fear is holding you back from doing what you KNOW you must do. Maybe it will help you to identify your fears. To this day, I live in fear that my exah will kill himself or die of an overdose. I live with the fear daily. This fear used to prevent me from doing things to improve MY life. Gradually, I learned that whatever happens to exah will be as a result of HIS choices...I had to admit that I was powerless over what my exah did with his life and let go of my struggle to 'save' him. Although the fear is still there...I don't let it dictate my actions. Once I admitted this fear...and acknowledged it...I found that it lost its power over me.
You can't 'save' him Jessica.
You know this in your head, I think...but you also need to know it in your heart. The 'help' you are offering him (a place to live, sleep and eat) is only making it easier for him to continue what he is doing. Your good intentions are preventing him from feeling the consequences of his drinking. You are, quite simply, enabling him. I understand. I did it for a long time not even realizing it. It takes love...not fear...to let go. Love for yourself...and love for him.
Hugs to you Jessica...
I know none of this is easy...
But YOU can do it. You really can!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: N Ireland
Posts: 42
(((jessica)))
Your time! Your choice! You are a very intelligent lady who has the wherewithall to question your reasons and motives for allowing G back into your life.You ask a lot of questions to which you already know the answer to. Only YOU can decide what you want, need or require from your life with him. Only you will eventually decide what is best for you and your children. Take care God bless you! X
Your time! Your choice! You are a very intelligent lady who has the wherewithall to question your reasons and motives for allowing G back into your life.You ask a lot of questions to which you already know the answer to. Only YOU can decide what you want, need or require from your life with him. Only you will eventually decide what is best for you and your children. Take care God bless you! X
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
This is a good question Jessica. As long as you listen he has power over you.
I learnt that I had to DECIDE to stop listening and start LOOKING at the actions. And I'll tell you it certainly was an eye opener. Once you are able to stop listening a lot of things will come clear for you and you can make your decisions on the ACTIONS not on words.
Ngaire
I learnt that I had to DECIDE to stop listening and start LOOKING at the actions. And I'll tell you it certainly was an eye opener. Once you are able to stop listening a lot of things will come clear for you and you can make your decisions on the ACTIONS not on words.
Ngaire
Originally Posted by JessicaNAJ
You know what I just thought of....he says a lot of things that gives me hope. I need to figure out a way to not fall into that. How do I stop listening?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
Jessica,
He's using you plain and simple as he has been doing since you began posting on this board 2 years ago. He's doing what an active A does taking advantage of the situation so he can further his habit. Nothing has changed.
Ngaire
He's using you plain and simple as he has been doing since you began posting on this board 2 years ago. He's doing what an active A does taking advantage of the situation so he can further his habit. Nothing has changed.
Ngaire
Originally Posted by JessicaNAJ
I'm almost afraid to post this b/c it's the same ole story and I think, Minnie, that you already know.
He's been here for 3-4 weeks and has managed to blow each paycheck before he decides to come back (yes, he has stayed gone ALL weekend without calling). But I'm (i guess) blinded when he calls and gives me the "reasons" why his check is gone, he paid this person back, he paid off this check, blah blah....he's still blowing $40-$80 at the bar that he could be giving me toward food...But I try to be understanding and don't overreact b/c I don't want to be the cause of a senseless arguement... The first week he did give me some money. The second week he didn't come back from work, called me the next day, talked about he paid all this stuff off and how he really wanted to give me money for food and the sitter, blah blah blah....I just said, "Do you feel like you accomplished something?" He said he did and I left it at that. The next weekend, he got his guitar out of pawn (yep....the one I got out for him a couple months ago) and lent some of his money to his friend to put toward an amp his friend had in pawn, came home that night. In this morning he told me he was irritated b/c he friend didn't pay him back yet and he was wanting to give me money and this whole long speal about this guy paying him back. I told him he was going to have to start bringing money in here too. He left later that day...didn't see or hear from him for two days...his reason for not calling or coming back, he didn't have any money and didn't want to try to explain it to me only for me to not understand.
Here we are again, friday..he didn't come back after work, probably won't see him all weekend, but I believe I can take comfort in the fact that he'll show up when his money's gone, like he does each weekend....AND THAT IS JUST CRAZY!!! He say's he just want to be himself....I'm really trying. But this is getting rediculus.
....I'm sick of it!!!! He needs to contribute and I know that if I don't find a way to tell him calmly, I'm going to blow...that's not healthy for me.
Not that I expect me telling him with change anything, but at least I'll know that I did tell him. I've tried to let it go...give him the benefit of the doubt, to see if he'd give me some money on his own (b/c he would say to me, I was going to give you money, but now that you're asking, it's like I'm only giving it to you b/c you asked) and that's proven to not work.
I'm thinking of just telling him.....I've tried to let it go, give you the benefit of the doubt, to see if you'd give me some money on your own, but that hasn't worked. So, I need you to start giving me $??? each week. See, that sounds confrontational and controlling, I'm trying to not do that. But obviously he can't "choose" to give me money so I have to try something. (I'm doing ok financially (he don't know that), but this is NOT right AT all...he needs to help out.)
He's been here for 3-4 weeks and has managed to blow each paycheck before he decides to come back (yes, he has stayed gone ALL weekend without calling). But I'm (i guess) blinded when he calls and gives me the "reasons" why his check is gone, he paid this person back, he paid off this check, blah blah....he's still blowing $40-$80 at the bar that he could be giving me toward food...But I try to be understanding and don't overreact b/c I don't want to be the cause of a senseless arguement... The first week he did give me some money. The second week he didn't come back from work, called me the next day, talked about he paid all this stuff off and how he really wanted to give me money for food and the sitter, blah blah blah....I just said, "Do you feel like you accomplished something?" He said he did and I left it at that. The next weekend, he got his guitar out of pawn (yep....the one I got out for him a couple months ago) and lent some of his money to his friend to put toward an amp his friend had in pawn, came home that night. In this morning he told me he was irritated b/c he friend didn't pay him back yet and he was wanting to give me money and this whole long speal about this guy paying him back. I told him he was going to have to start bringing money in here too. He left later that day...didn't see or hear from him for two days...his reason for not calling or coming back, he didn't have any money and didn't want to try to explain it to me only for me to not understand.
Here we are again, friday..he didn't come back after work, probably won't see him all weekend, but I believe I can take comfort in the fact that he'll show up when his money's gone, like he does each weekend....AND THAT IS JUST CRAZY!!! He say's he just want to be himself....I'm really trying. But this is getting rediculus.
....I'm sick of it!!!! He needs to contribute and I know that if I don't find a way to tell him calmly, I'm going to blow...that's not healthy for me.
Not that I expect me telling him with change anything, but at least I'll know that I did tell him. I've tried to let it go...give him the benefit of the doubt, to see if he'd give me some money on his own (b/c he would say to me, I was going to give you money, but now that you're asking, it's like I'm only giving it to you b/c you asked) and that's proven to not work.
I'm thinking of just telling him.....I've tried to let it go, give you the benefit of the doubt, to see if you'd give me some money on your own, but that hasn't worked. So, I need you to start giving me $??? each week. See, that sounds confrontational and controlling, I'm trying to not do that. But obviously he can't "choose" to give me money so I have to try something. (I'm doing ok financially (he don't know that), but this is NOT right AT all...he needs to help out.)
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 689
Originally Posted by JessicaNAJ
SO, what is this doing for me??? I think I'm a pretty smart person......SO WHY CAN'T I SEE AND FEEL WHAT IS SO OBVIOUS to others. Why do I still think he wants to change? What am I afraid of? Do I think if this won't work I'm going to fail somehow?
I really understand the feeling of desperation and frustration you have. Heart and head do not match up. You know things, but yet continue to FEEL so differently. And the gap can be absolutely crazy-making: "Why can't I stop feeling certain things even though I know better? Why can't I simply stop wanting everything to be okay, right here, in this marriage, with this person -- even though all the evidence says otherwise?" It's torture. It's like living inside a war zone inside ourselves.
One way to look at this is exactly how we look at addiction. The A is powerless over their DOC, right? And many A's struggle with this same kind of torture -- knowing what the right thing to do is, but feeling unable to change. Telling themselves over and over what they should do, and then being unable to follow through.
So it is with your situation: you know how destructive the situation is to you, but yet feel powerless over the feelings that draw you to this person.
I do believe this is relationship/love addiction. For me, I couldn't really make deep fundamental changes in myself and learn the answers to the questions you're asking until I made the shift in my head and identified my problem as love addiction.
When I did that, it really kick-started my own recovery dramatically. I knew I had been co-dependent, but a tremendous shift happened when I saw this 'addiction' to another person. I really began to search for answers -- to look at my very own underlying issues. Where this tremendous need came from. The need to be loved, the need to fix my family, then and now, the need to make things alright. I had to look at what was underneath my fear. Where the fear of being alone came from. Why I was so afraid to feel failure. Why I needed to keep an unrealistic dream intact. And much more.
It meant in therapy looking into my own past to find the answers. It meant cleaning up wounds and hurts from so long ago that kept me repeating the same behavior today over and over. I experienced a lot of emotional neglect and abandonment as a child with a mother who was sufferining depression when I was very young and then left when I was age 6. My father was a physician who was emotionally distant and retreated into his work. And then for many years I experienced emotional abuse at the hands of a very unstable step-mother. I spent a lot of my growing up feeling very alone, and was suicidal as a teenager. It was hard work and painful work to go back. The real dots got connected -- seeing the pain I felt as a child and how that was being played out in my adult relationships.
Not everyone travels this path to freedom. But for me it was essential. I have so much more clarity now, and in the present, I am so much more able to identify my feelings and separate what's then from now. And I'm now able to have a loving relationship, that while not perfect, is truly respectful and caring, and far healtheir than any I've ever had.
Just thought I'd share my experience,
gf
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Litterbox City
Posts: 5,691
When I did that, it really kick-started my own recovery dramatically. I knew I had been co-dependent, but a tremendous shift happened when I saw this 'addiction' to another person. I really began to search for answers -- to look at my very own underlying issues. Where this tremendous need came from. The need to be loved, the need to fix my family, then and now, the need to make things alright. I had to look at what was underneath my fear. Where the fear of being alone came from. Why I was so afraid to feel failure. Why I needed to keep an unrealistic dream intact. And much more.
It meant in therapy looking into my own past to find the answers. It meant cleaning up wounds and hurts from so long ago that kept me repeating the same behavior today over and over. I experienced a lot of emotional neglect and abandonment as a child with a mother who was sufferining depression when I was very young and then left when I was age 6. My father was a physician who was emotionally distant and retreated into his work. And then for many years I experienced emotional abuse at the hands of a very unstable step-mother. I spent a lot of my growing up feeling very alone, and was suicidal as a teenager. It was hard work and painful work to go back. The real dots got connected -- seeing the pain I felt as a child and how that was being played out in my adult relationships.
It meant in therapy looking into my own past to find the answers. It meant cleaning up wounds and hurts from so long ago that kept me repeating the same behavior today over and over. I experienced a lot of emotional neglect and abandonment as a child with a mother who was sufferining depression when I was very young and then left when I was age 6. My father was a physician who was emotionally distant and retreated into his work. And then for many years I experienced emotional abuse at the hands of a very unstable step-mother. I spent a lot of my growing up feeling very alone, and was suicidal as a teenager. It was hard work and painful work to go back. The real dots got connected -- seeing the pain I felt as a child and how that was being played out in my adult relationships.
jess - i know where you are coming from - i was constantly having the head/heart battle and am now learning why. i've lived on my own for relatively short periods but never truly examining my feelings. since my hubby passed i am now alone but the difference this time is that i am beginning to learn about myself and what makes me "tick". truly letting go is scary but essential. i don't think you have gotten there yet for whatever reason. that fear of failure thing i think was hammered in so tight that i didn't even realize that was part of my problem. but you also have to look at the flip side and realize it's G's failure, not yours.
take care jess and keep posting.
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Back in my head
Posts: 1,194
Jess Dearest...Take a moment and read what Minnie said. Than read it about a dozen times. If you're not ready to stand firm, nothing will change. The sad thing is that you can't accept that and he knows it and will play you for eternity.
My son told me the other day that he and other alcoholics were talking at a meeting and they said that they felt "we" were sicker than they are. I didn't respond because I wanted to process it. And by God, they're right. While reality for them is drowned in the booze/drugs, we are keenly aware of what seems to be our total responsibility and the burdens it brings. Compound that 10 times and that is what has become our life. And yet, through it all, there is this little insane notion that they'll get better. And we get attached to that and the empty promises.
I do it myself in regard to other areas of my life, then have to stop and ask myself why I'm not looking at the bigger picture. The one that really counts.
My son told me the other day that he and other alcoholics were talking at a meeting and they said that they felt "we" were sicker than they are. I didn't respond because I wanted to process it. And by God, they're right. While reality for them is drowned in the booze/drugs, we are keenly aware of what seems to be our total responsibility and the burdens it brings. Compound that 10 times and that is what has become our life. And yet, through it all, there is this little insane notion that they'll get better. And we get attached to that and the empty promises.
I do it myself in regard to other areas of my life, then have to stop and ask myself why I'm not looking at the bigger picture. The one that really counts.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
Hi Jessica,
There is a difference between confrontational and controlling and assertive and setting boundaries to take care of ourselves.
Sometimes doing an inventory on control can help us to see where and how we control and enable us to change to become assertive and set boundaries.
He will take advantage of you, which he is, as long as you choose to let him.
You can set boundaries for yourself and if he chooses not to respect them then you can make your choices and decisions accordingly.
Ngaire
There is a difference between confrontational and controlling and assertive and setting boundaries to take care of ourselves.
Sometimes doing an inventory on control can help us to see where and how we control and enable us to change to become assertive and set boundaries.
He will take advantage of you, which he is, as long as you choose to let him.
You can set boundaries for yourself and if he chooses not to respect them then you can make your choices and decisions accordingly.
Ngaire
Originally Posted by JessicaNAJ
I'm almost afraid to post this b/c it's the same ole story and I think, Minnie, that you already know.
He's been here for 3-4 weeks and has managed to blow each paycheck before he decides to come back (yes, he has stayed gone ALL weekend without calling). But I'm (i guess) blinded when he calls and gives me the "reasons" why his check is gone, he paid this person back, he paid off this check, blah blah....he's still blowing $40-$80 at the bar that he could be giving me toward food...But I try to be understanding and don't overreact b/c I don't want to be the cause of a senseless arguement... The first week he did give me some money. The second week he didn't come back from work, called me the next day, talked about he paid all this stuff off and how he really wanted to give me money for food and the sitter, blah blah blah....I just said, "Do you feel like you accomplished something?" He said he did and I left it at that. The next weekend, he got his guitar out of pawn (yep....the one I got out for him a couple months ago) and lent some of his money to his friend to put toward an amp his friend had in pawn, came home that night. In this morning he told me he was irritated b/c he friend didn't pay him back yet and he was wanting to give me money and this whole long speal about this guy paying him back. I told him he was going to have to start bringing money in here too. He left later that day...didn't see or hear from him for two days...his reason for not calling or coming back, he didn't have any money and didn't want to try to explain it to me only for me to not understand.
Here we are again, friday..he didn't come back after work, probably won't see him all weekend, but I believe I can take comfort in the fact that he'll show up when his money's gone, like he does each weekend....AND THAT IS JUST CRAZY!!! He say's he just want to be himself....I'm really trying. But this is getting rediculus.
....I'm sick of it!!!! He needs to contribute and I know that if I don't find a way to tell him calmly, I'm going to blow...that's not healthy for me.
Not that I expect me telling him with change anything, but at least I'll know that I did tell him. I've tried to let it go...give him the benefit of the doubt, to see if he'd give me some money on his own (b/c he would say to me, I was going to give you money, but now that you're asking, it's like I'm only giving it to you b/c you asked) and that's proven to not work.
I'm thinking of just telling him.....I've tried to let it go, give you the benefit of the doubt, to see if you'd give me some money on your own, but that hasn't worked. So, I need you to start giving me $??? each week. See, that sounds confrontational and controlling, I'm trying to not do that. But obviously he can't "choose" to give me money so I have to try something. (I'm doing ok financially (he don't know that), but this is NOT right AT all...he needs to help out.)
He's been here for 3-4 weeks and has managed to blow each paycheck before he decides to come back (yes, he has stayed gone ALL weekend without calling). But I'm (i guess) blinded when he calls and gives me the "reasons" why his check is gone, he paid this person back, he paid off this check, blah blah....he's still blowing $40-$80 at the bar that he could be giving me toward food...But I try to be understanding and don't overreact b/c I don't want to be the cause of a senseless arguement... The first week he did give me some money. The second week he didn't come back from work, called me the next day, talked about he paid all this stuff off and how he really wanted to give me money for food and the sitter, blah blah blah....I just said, "Do you feel like you accomplished something?" He said he did and I left it at that. The next weekend, he got his guitar out of pawn (yep....the one I got out for him a couple months ago) and lent some of his money to his friend to put toward an amp his friend had in pawn, came home that night. In this morning he told me he was irritated b/c he friend didn't pay him back yet and he was wanting to give me money and this whole long speal about this guy paying him back. I told him he was going to have to start bringing money in here too. He left later that day...didn't see or hear from him for two days...his reason for not calling or coming back, he didn't have any money and didn't want to try to explain it to me only for me to not understand.
Here we are again, friday..he didn't come back after work, probably won't see him all weekend, but I believe I can take comfort in the fact that he'll show up when his money's gone, like he does each weekend....AND THAT IS JUST CRAZY!!! He say's he just want to be himself....I'm really trying. But this is getting rediculus.
....I'm sick of it!!!! He needs to contribute and I know that if I don't find a way to tell him calmly, I'm going to blow...that's not healthy for me.
Not that I expect me telling him with change anything, but at least I'll know that I did tell him. I've tried to let it go...give him the benefit of the doubt, to see if he'd give me some money on his own (b/c he would say to me, I was going to give you money, but now that you're asking, it's like I'm only giving it to you b/c you asked) and that's proven to not work.
I'm thinking of just telling him.....I've tried to let it go, give you the benefit of the doubt, to see if you'd give me some money on your own, but that hasn't worked. So, I need you to start giving me $??? each week. See, that sounds confrontational and controlling, I'm trying to not do that. But obviously he can't "choose" to give me money so I have to try something. (I'm doing ok financially (he don't know that), but this is NOT right AT all...he needs to help out.)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
For me, I had to learn to let go of what I wanted and figure out what I could have.
I wanted a sober, responsible, loving husband who cared about me and my needs. And I spent years trying to make him be that person. I had to come to a point where I realized I could not have that. (Not with him anyway) Once I accepted that, and it took many months to grieve the loss of that dream, then I was free to start looking at what I could have.
I could have a peaceful, stable home filled with love and respect for my children. I could have a peaceful night's sleep more often than not. I could have a future filled with new dreams, ones that were actually attainable. I could have friends over, and my kids could have their friends over without worrying about what might happen while they were there. I could spend time actually listening to my children because my mind was not somewhere else. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
When you get so set on having exactly what you want, and then you get angry about not having it, you lose sight of all the other good things life has to offer.
L
I wanted a sober, responsible, loving husband who cared about me and my needs. And I spent years trying to make him be that person. I had to come to a point where I realized I could not have that. (Not with him anyway) Once I accepted that, and it took many months to grieve the loss of that dream, then I was free to start looking at what I could have.
I could have a peaceful, stable home filled with love and respect for my children. I could have a peaceful night's sleep more often than not. I could have a future filled with new dreams, ones that were actually attainable. I could have friends over, and my kids could have their friends over without worrying about what might happen while they were there. I could spend time actually listening to my children because my mind was not somewhere else. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
When you get so set on having exactly what you want, and then you get angry about not having it, you lose sight of all the other good things life has to offer.
L
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Litterbox City
Posts: 5,691
When you get so set on having exactly what you want, and then you get angry about not having it, you lose sight of all the other good things life has to offer
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 528
I think I'd be more upset with putting up with disappearing acts than no money. Ya'll are supposed to be trying to "work it out" ? But yet he doesn't come home from friday to sunday? He's gone ALL weekend and comes home when his money is gone but he's paying these people back and paying off debts?
Jess, if he were giving you some money each week but then still disappearing, would it then be more excusable having him disappear on the weekend?
Everythings he says to you is his disease talking, all his excuses and reasons. You putting up with this in the name of "love" and "making it work" and "not controlling" is your disease talking. At least , that's my opinion.
Jess, if he were giving you some money each week but then still disappearing, would it then be more excusable having him disappear on the weekend?
Everythings he says to you is his disease talking, all his excuses and reasons. You putting up with this in the name of "love" and "making it work" and "not controlling" is your disease talking. At least , that's my opinion.
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Back in my head
Posts: 1,194
Ya know Jess...I've been thinking about your post all morning and came to the conclusion that you will get it. Reminds me of when I was trying to teach my son the times tables. Over and over again. Weeks of persisting until one Saturday morning at the kitchen table, he jumped up and said, "why didn't you say that in the first place." It just clicked for him at that moment.
Persistence is the key. Don't ever give up if this is what you want.
Blessings.
Persistence is the key. Don't ever give up if this is what you want.
Blessings.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
How can we confront denial in ourselves?
We can confront denial by:
Asking ourselves honestly why we are in denial.
Asking ourselves what are the benefits to be gained by our denial.
Asking ourselves what is too painful to face.
Recognizing when we are caught up in magical or fantasy thinking about our problem or loss.
Recognizing the negative consequences that result from our denial behavior.
Not allowing ourselves to fall back into a safe emotional zone, but to keep our emotional response open and honest.
Recognizing when we are hiding behind a ``nice'' mask when discussing our loss or problems.
Allowing ourselves to express negative or embarrassing emotions as we confront our problems (e.g., crying, feeling lost, feeling confused, or feeling scared).
Allowing ourselves to admit to being out of control.
Trusting others to help us with our problem.
Admitting our vulnerability and our need for assistance.
Risking the loss of acceptance or approval by those who may be unable to handle our open, honest admission of our problem.
Recognizing the negative behavior scripts that impede our ability to deal openly with problems.
Recognizing that it is human to have problems and to experience loss; it is not a sign of our lack of value or worth.
Refuting the irrational beliefs that block our acceptance of the loss or problems.
Asking others to not allow us to deny or avoid the truth about our loss or problems.
Recognizing that denial is a natural stage in the loss/grief response.
Maintaining our sense of perspective, allowing ourselves to go through the problems as a growth experience.
Believing that out of failure comes success; accepting the failure as a chance for personal growth.
Accepting the help of others in the aftermath of our loss.
What is bargaining when a loss is involved?
Bargaining is:
Negotiating with God, others, and self to do or to stop doing a series of things in order to prevent a loss, hurt, failure, or uncomfortable circumstance.
Making resolutions to change a way of living in order to avoid the consequences of the current lifeBstyle.
Shopping for the guru, doctor, or belief system with the "answer'' for our life or the ``means'' to do away with our troubles.
Minimizing problems and the positing of quick solutions for them.
The unending quest for ``helping'' methods to change or improve our lives.
Chronic mistrust in established answers or methods of change required to help or to heal.
Resistance to trusting and to working closely with the helping agents in our lives who are willing to assist us in changing or improving our situation.
Loss of faith in the answers we are being given on how to treat or address our problems.
Lack of taking personal responsibility in addressing our problems.
"Looking good'' for helpers but ignoring and not cooperating with them in reality.
Convincing ourselves that ``others'' don't know what they are talking about and that we have the answers to our problems.
Ignoring those who confront us with our problems by explaining away our behavior and offering a variety of intellectual explanations for our motives and actions.
`Giving time'' and waiting for our problems to solve themselves with no direct intervention taking place.
Believing in the myth that ``more is better,'' and involving ourselves in a variety of different intervention and treatment modalities in order to make the problem go away ``as soon as possible.''
Handing over to others (e.g., therapists, counselors, doctors, friends) the responsibility for resolving our problems.
Exempting ourselves from any direct responsibility for the resolution or remediation of our problems.
Ignoring the advice of the professionals from whom we have requested help for our problems.
Second guessing the motives and advice of others as they attempt to help us address our problems.
Our unwillingness to admit that some problems are so great that we cannot solve them on our own and that we need help to work on them.
``Putting off the agony'' of facing the problems and the unwillingness to suffer the immediate pain in treating the problem. Putting off the pain to another time when we will be ``better prepared'' to handle it.
Asking for time so that we can prepare ourselves for the problem and its consequences.
The unwillingness to be ``prevention oriented,'' to look into the future and see what we could be doing today to prevent illness or problems from occurring.
Procrastinating in what we know we need to do while convincing ourselves that the problem will not recur or increase in magnitude.
Pointing out all of the good things we have or are doing in our life as a means of justifying our taking no action to resolve the current problem.
Grabbing onto a simplistic, minimally painful, quick solution to a complex problem.
Salving of one's conscience by taking some indirect action (e.g., contributing money to feed the hungry in Africa) in response to an immediate personal problem (e.g., a family member is involved in an unhealthy lifeBstyle and we are unwilling or unable to confront them on it.)
Giving a person with problems material things instead of our time and positive attention hoping that by this their problems will be resolved.
Convincing oneself that ignoring or using an indirect means of addressing another person's problems is the best way to help that person (e.g., let them know we love and care for them and that we are always there for them when they need us rather that confront them with the problem.)
Looking for the ``helper'' whose solutions to our problems are most palatable to us.
Doing ``good'' for others in the hope that such actions will solve our problems.
What are some irrational beliefs involved in bargaining?
It should not hurt to solve a problem.
Solutions to problems should be simple and straightforward.
In getting help for problems there should be no cost in terms of time, resources, or energy.
There should be a solution for all problems.
There should be an answer or diagnosis for all problems.
There should be a cure for all ills.
If I look hard enough I'll find an answer or solution to my problems.
Living a good, clean life should result in my problems being small or nonexistent.
People should recognize their own problems and work them out on their own.
People will not like or accept me if I confront them with their problems.
They are constantly finding new cures; therefore, they'll find one for my problem.
If I ignore a problem it will go away.
If I am hurting from my problem, everyone in my life should respect my feelings and avoid causing more problems for me.
All helpers should be kind, gentle, considerate, and successful in helping me solve my problems.
A helper is responsible for solving my problem.
Change should come easy.
Since I am motivated to work on solving my problem, then my problem should be solved easily, immediately, and completely.
Once you solve a problem you should never have to solve it again.
The more I pay in resources, time, and energy to solve a problem, the better the solution should be.
Why worry about tomorrow? Relax and enjoy life, and don't concern yourself with the possible aftermath of your behavior.
No one understands me or my problem.
I am the only one with this problem.
If I am quiet about what I am currently experiencing in my problem, it will eventually go away.
How can this problem ever be resolved?
I must face this problem on my own.
I must never burden anyone else with my problems.
It is a sign of weakness to ask others for help in dealing with a problem.
If you ask someone for help and they give it, you will always have to perform some type of payback.
I must have done some awful things in my earlier life for this problem to happen to me.
You must accept any problem that comes your way as a sign of your innate evil; you must accept it as the penance or retribution for your badness.
If I get help the problem will go away, and I won't need anymore help.
Identify the irrational beliefs underlying the bargaining behavior.
Systematically begin the process of refuting the irrational beliefs by asking the following questions:
Are the beliefs I am (or you are) working under reasonable and rational considering the nature, scope, and intensity of the problem involved?
What would be a more reasonable set of beliefs to work with when addressing the problem(s)?
What would happen if I (or you) should begin to follow these new ``rational'' beliefs in addressing the problem(s)?
How is the problem being resolved by my ( or your) operating under the current beliefs?
What is self-defeating in my (or your) current beliefs?
What is self-enhancing in my (or your) new set of beliefs?
We can confront denial by:
Asking ourselves honestly why we are in denial.
Asking ourselves what are the benefits to be gained by our denial.
Asking ourselves what is too painful to face.
Recognizing when we are caught up in magical or fantasy thinking about our problem or loss.
Recognizing the negative consequences that result from our denial behavior.
Not allowing ourselves to fall back into a safe emotional zone, but to keep our emotional response open and honest.
Recognizing when we are hiding behind a ``nice'' mask when discussing our loss or problems.
Allowing ourselves to express negative or embarrassing emotions as we confront our problems (e.g., crying, feeling lost, feeling confused, or feeling scared).
Allowing ourselves to admit to being out of control.
Trusting others to help us with our problem.
Admitting our vulnerability and our need for assistance.
Risking the loss of acceptance or approval by those who may be unable to handle our open, honest admission of our problem.
Recognizing the negative behavior scripts that impede our ability to deal openly with problems.
Recognizing that it is human to have problems and to experience loss; it is not a sign of our lack of value or worth.
Refuting the irrational beliefs that block our acceptance of the loss or problems.
Asking others to not allow us to deny or avoid the truth about our loss or problems.
Recognizing that denial is a natural stage in the loss/grief response.
Maintaining our sense of perspective, allowing ourselves to go through the problems as a growth experience.
Believing that out of failure comes success; accepting the failure as a chance for personal growth.
Accepting the help of others in the aftermath of our loss.
What is bargaining when a loss is involved?
Bargaining is:
Negotiating with God, others, and self to do or to stop doing a series of things in order to prevent a loss, hurt, failure, or uncomfortable circumstance.
Making resolutions to change a way of living in order to avoid the consequences of the current lifeBstyle.
Shopping for the guru, doctor, or belief system with the "answer'' for our life or the ``means'' to do away with our troubles.
Minimizing problems and the positing of quick solutions for them.
The unending quest for ``helping'' methods to change or improve our lives.
Chronic mistrust in established answers or methods of change required to help or to heal.
Resistance to trusting and to working closely with the helping agents in our lives who are willing to assist us in changing or improving our situation.
Loss of faith in the answers we are being given on how to treat or address our problems.
Lack of taking personal responsibility in addressing our problems.
"Looking good'' for helpers but ignoring and not cooperating with them in reality.
Convincing ourselves that ``others'' don't know what they are talking about and that we have the answers to our problems.
Ignoring those who confront us with our problems by explaining away our behavior and offering a variety of intellectual explanations for our motives and actions.
`Giving time'' and waiting for our problems to solve themselves with no direct intervention taking place.
Believing in the myth that ``more is better,'' and involving ourselves in a variety of different intervention and treatment modalities in order to make the problem go away ``as soon as possible.''
Handing over to others (e.g., therapists, counselors, doctors, friends) the responsibility for resolving our problems.
Exempting ourselves from any direct responsibility for the resolution or remediation of our problems.
Ignoring the advice of the professionals from whom we have requested help for our problems.
Second guessing the motives and advice of others as they attempt to help us address our problems.
Our unwillingness to admit that some problems are so great that we cannot solve them on our own and that we need help to work on them.
``Putting off the agony'' of facing the problems and the unwillingness to suffer the immediate pain in treating the problem. Putting off the pain to another time when we will be ``better prepared'' to handle it.
Asking for time so that we can prepare ourselves for the problem and its consequences.
The unwillingness to be ``prevention oriented,'' to look into the future and see what we could be doing today to prevent illness or problems from occurring.
Procrastinating in what we know we need to do while convincing ourselves that the problem will not recur or increase in magnitude.
Pointing out all of the good things we have or are doing in our life as a means of justifying our taking no action to resolve the current problem.
Grabbing onto a simplistic, minimally painful, quick solution to a complex problem.
Salving of one's conscience by taking some indirect action (e.g., contributing money to feed the hungry in Africa) in response to an immediate personal problem (e.g., a family member is involved in an unhealthy lifeBstyle and we are unwilling or unable to confront them on it.)
Giving a person with problems material things instead of our time and positive attention hoping that by this their problems will be resolved.
Convincing oneself that ignoring or using an indirect means of addressing another person's problems is the best way to help that person (e.g., let them know we love and care for them and that we are always there for them when they need us rather that confront them with the problem.)
Looking for the ``helper'' whose solutions to our problems are most palatable to us.
Doing ``good'' for others in the hope that such actions will solve our problems.
What are some irrational beliefs involved in bargaining?
It should not hurt to solve a problem.
Solutions to problems should be simple and straightforward.
In getting help for problems there should be no cost in terms of time, resources, or energy.
There should be a solution for all problems.
There should be an answer or diagnosis for all problems.
There should be a cure for all ills.
If I look hard enough I'll find an answer or solution to my problems.
Living a good, clean life should result in my problems being small or nonexistent.
People should recognize their own problems and work them out on their own.
People will not like or accept me if I confront them with their problems.
They are constantly finding new cures; therefore, they'll find one for my problem.
If I ignore a problem it will go away.
If I am hurting from my problem, everyone in my life should respect my feelings and avoid causing more problems for me.
All helpers should be kind, gentle, considerate, and successful in helping me solve my problems.
A helper is responsible for solving my problem.
Change should come easy.
Since I am motivated to work on solving my problem, then my problem should be solved easily, immediately, and completely.
Once you solve a problem you should never have to solve it again.
The more I pay in resources, time, and energy to solve a problem, the better the solution should be.
Why worry about tomorrow? Relax and enjoy life, and don't concern yourself with the possible aftermath of your behavior.
No one understands me or my problem.
I am the only one with this problem.
If I am quiet about what I am currently experiencing in my problem, it will eventually go away.
How can this problem ever be resolved?
I must face this problem on my own.
I must never burden anyone else with my problems.
It is a sign of weakness to ask others for help in dealing with a problem.
If you ask someone for help and they give it, you will always have to perform some type of payback.
I must have done some awful things in my earlier life for this problem to happen to me.
You must accept any problem that comes your way as a sign of your innate evil; you must accept it as the penance or retribution for your badness.
If I get help the problem will go away, and I won't need anymore help.
Identify the irrational beliefs underlying the bargaining behavior.
Systematically begin the process of refuting the irrational beliefs by asking the following questions:
Are the beliefs I am (or you are) working under reasonable and rational considering the nature, scope, and intensity of the problem involved?
What would be a more reasonable set of beliefs to work with when addressing the problem(s)?
What would happen if I (or you) should begin to follow these new ``rational'' beliefs in addressing the problem(s)?
How is the problem being resolved by my ( or your) operating under the current beliefs?
What is self-defeating in my (or your) current beliefs?
What is self-enhancing in my (or your) new set of beliefs?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by sunshine003
I think I'd be more upset with putting up with disappearing acts than no money. Ya'll are supposed to be trying to "work it out" ? But yet he doesn't come home from friday to sunday? He's gone ALL weekend and comes home when his money is gone but he's paying these people back and paying off debts?
Jess, if he were giving you some money each week but then still disappearing, would it then be more excusable having him disappear on the weekend?
Everythings he says to you is his disease talking, all his excuses and reasons. You putting up with this in the name of "love" and "making it work" and "not controlling" is your disease talking. At least , that's my opinion.
Jess, if he were giving you some money each week but then still disappearing, would it then be more excusable having him disappear on the weekend?
Everythings he says to you is his disease talking, all his excuses and reasons. You putting up with this in the name of "love" and "making it work" and "not controlling" is your disease talking. At least , that's my opinion.
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by gelfling
Ya know Jess...I've been thinking about your post all morning and came to the conclusion that you will get it. Reminds me of when I was trying to teach my son the times tables. Over and over again. Weeks of persisting until one Saturday morning at the kitchen table, he jumped up and said, "why didn't you say that in the first place." It just clicked for him at that moment.
Persistence is the key. Don't ever give up if this is what you want.
Blessings.
Persistence is the key. Don't ever give up if this is what you want.
Blessings.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
Want to hear a shocker....he came home today at 12:30. I asked him three days ago to watch the kids so I could go to the Comedy Club with his sisters tonight. I made secondary arrangements with the kids b/c I can't count on him to be here...but he was. And he's cleaning and doing the laundry.
I guess my reactions prompted this question from him...Does that surprise you? I told him, "It doesn't surprise me, it confuses me."
I kinda feel like there's a stranger in my house.
I guess my reactions prompted this question from him...Does that surprise you? I told him, "It doesn't surprise me, it confuses me."
I kinda feel like there's a stranger in my house.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
Thank you MG. I have bookmarked this thread so I can read these responses over and over. I really like what you posted on denial. Seems that is an issue I really need to look at.
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