libralady

For me, i thought that that was all i was worth! It didn'nt matter that he would vomit all over my carpet, it didn'nt matter that he was abusive. When he was sober he would apologise and be loving to me and my son. Until i realised that it was my own self esteem and self worth that was so low that i would put up with this rubbish!, i loked in the mirror and liked what i saw! When i got my self worth and self esteem back and KNEW that I was better than this life,he was gone! Sometimes, i look in the mirror, as we all do, and think Yuch!! But then, i look into my eyes and see a strong beautiful woman! Which you are! God bless X

GettingFree

This may be the most succinct explanation of the disease model I've heard Mike. I can live with this -- I think. I react when it is interpreted as a barrier to perceiving choice -- which does happen, even if when other explanations exist. Thanks for this.

chrisea

Neighbors hear him and blow it off...

I've seen friends, and neighbors do this... all I can say is ~ They Don't Live with This... after a while, sometimes way too long, (like I heard before, us codies sit in the front row view of this chaos, sometimes 2 years too long). The act of staying gets harder ~ than the act of leaving... You start to think of / devise a plan... and it really Gets Better on the other side.

CatsTail

Ultimately the choice is yours to put up with it or not put up with it.

You'll do something about it when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired.

It sounds like you are being badly abused.

Ngaire

steve11694

Thats some great stuff you composed. It evokes much emotion within me. The pre A wife during the first 5 years of our 6.5 year marriage were spent with the best person I have ever known on this earth. Kind, lovely, personable, intelligent, caring, funny, witty, loving, good mother, motivated, fast learner. Its that person I knew before alcohol that I think of. We have not lived together for about 1 year. I hit bottom, started alanon and counselling, learned about alcoholism and enabling. I stopped being her caretaker. After a failed intervention (she refused to show up to her birthday party), I did the most loving thing, although it broke my heart, I stopped all enabling and even got her into her own apartment.


I covered the security deposit and first months rent and the lease in her name. She thought it would be a non stop party without me around.
Some lessons cannot be learned, but must be lived. I believe her life is hell now. Trying to work and pay rent and party in a very costly area. Mentating a fraction of her pre alcohol level. Was fired from one job, picked up 2 low wage positions.


The mean time it takes for an alcoholic wife to get into recovery is around 7 years. This is because of all the sympathy and enabling afforded to them. Some have said an alcoholic man dies on the gutter, a woman on the sofa.

I know exactly how you feel. Plus you have known him for so many years.

Now serenity has replaced turmoil
walking on eggshells replaced by lonliness
words cannot express how much i miss her


current friends ex alcoholics all advise me to "let go" for now.


Hang in there.



" i was drowniong in sorrow, but my sorrows they learned to swim " Paul Hewson

BigSis

Not too many people love a drunk drunk. But like everyone here, I fell in love with the man he was sober...

So why was I drawn to THAT man in the first place? Why is it that EVERY man I have been attracted to is an addict or alcoholic? And MANY of the women I count as my friends are ALSO alcoholic... and of the women that are "double winners" in my Alanon group, the ones I find the most endearing? You got it, the ones for whom AA is their primary program.

Alcoholics, I just love 'em!

Partly because they are easy, yet not easy. They are sweet and observant and will be the first one in the room to compliment me. They are michevious and rakish, sexy and alluring. They have an awareness of themselves and of themselves with ME. That self-awareness is part of the I, I, I, me, me, me thing, but it has a good side, too.

The not easy part is that "unavailability". When they are with me, I am all that exists... yet when they are with others, I know that *I* no longer exist.

They are intense. Smoky. Shallow... but with a promise of dark water.

I haven't been able to give 'em up, yet. I am not even sure I am trying all that hard.

Today, I am aware that I have this attraction. I am far more aware of where this comes from... that "unavailability" key seems to connect with my competitive "*I* can win" lock. Knowing that is what is going on, I can better curb myself. But hell, I am a married, 50 year old woman... I don't get all that many opportunities anymore to do the curbing. Perhaps THAT is my HP at work... grin.

Introspection about why we do what we do is good...thank you for posting this, Karen.

deettah

Hmmmmm, what was it for me?? He was older, tall, dark, mysterious and seemed worldly. Talked a good game and he ACTUALLY was a used car salesman!! LMAO! BIG RED FLAG THERE!! The we got married, he got comfortable, didn't have to sell me anymore and out came Mr. Hyde, I had a death grip on what I thought our marriage was and SOOO was not. I stayed for the wrong reasons, my codie need to save him, point him in the right direction, my convincing myself that if I divorced him that I would be a failure, putting too much stock in his promises, beginning to believe him when he said that it was my fault, thinking that any day now things will be as they were in the beginning, I found myself saying "well he was just angry and he does love me". Love me? I can't even stand to hear him say that now. It actually makes my stomach turn.

steve11694

Read a small paperback book called "I'll quit tomorrow" by Vernon Johnson It deals with knowledge gained in treating the disease.

The subconscious defense mechanisms in alcoholism are incredible and not difficult to understand. It helped me greatly. They actually lose voluntary control or even comprehension of the existence of a problem.
I have attended open AA meetings as a source of inspiration and courage in delaing with my AW.

Many of the stories I have heard from recovering alcs could be plots for horror movies about demonic possesion. It was very tough for me to not get upset early on, but the more I learn the easier it gets.

At an addiction support group meeting a concerned family member asked the addiction counselor host Q "how do you know if an addict is lying"
A; when they move their mouth

Five

"I can tell you what part of it is.......We alkie/addicts are the BEST MANIPULATORS (CON MEN AND WOMEN) in the world."

Err, speak for yourself Laurie.

Five

I have seen introverted alcoholics, extroverted, wild, sombre, shy, loud, mad, bad, good, clever, dense, ecentric, plain, dumb, quick, slow, chatty, batty, arty, clinical...

I dont really know what you mean by an alcoholic. Someone who drinks too much? Thats more fitting.

BigSis

You make a good point, Five. Remember that old saying about good art?

"I don't know what it is, but I know it when I see it!"

Generalizations are never 100% accurate, but with the condition of addiction/alcoholism/alanonism... I keep seeing similar traits in the folks who I meet at meetings and conferences. Some of the personality traits are obviously part of that "arrested development" thing... others, I am not so sure.

I do see grouchy, introverted self-centered drunks, yet even with them, I HAVE tried to get to know them better. I probably had a need to "fix" them. I see that "need to fix" in a LOT of my Alanon friends.

I DON'T seem to have a need to fix my accountant, who appears to not be a drinker at all, and I am NOT drawn to the soccer coach, who seems to drink only occassionally and like a "normie"... and that just makes me curious.

What is it that draws folks like me to folks like "them". And why have I come to trust my "radar" when it comes to both men AND women who drink and/or drug?

It may be entirely social... pehaps many of us grew up in similar home situations and learned to communicate in subtle ways that give off other clues I am blind to... but there is something there sometimes, that I have learned to recognize.

Pick-a-name

This facsinates and worries me all at once........I have realized the same thing about myself. I did not grow up with any active alcoholics ;however I NOW think both my parents did........they died when I was in grade school and one was dry/maybe in recovery then by indications and since we live outside Akron I am even more curious..blah,blah..ha. My AH, now that I think back, had two distinct "modes"......one when we first met at 19y, went out,etc (I was hooked then!) I was not a partier and he was (not so much with me) but we were college freshman. He found another partying gf and we were friends, he dropped out of school for a year to work at a ski resort and I casually hanging out wth some of his friends when he returned. We met again and stayed that way for 30 yrs. This time he was in "workaholic" mode........his other DOC. I actually thought he just went thru an early college partying thing and got over it (like I did )....seemed that way. haha Thought he was the "settled-down" family man he appeared for the first 15-20 years of our marriage. The opposite of "an irresponsible alcoholic".

AH is very responsible,successful,etc.........or was.....at certain things......the ones people see. He can/could hold it together at work (started and ran his own very successful business which he just sold for lots of $) but lets loose when behinds closed doors. I did not know a thing about addiction and alcoholism......the progression, etc.,etc. Maybe AH tries/tried to be a "normie" all this time, but could no longer control it. Guess that is what happens.


I do see I LOVE addicts and always have........always was a "good girl" who saw the sweetness,how interesting,and "depth" (ha!) and the "bad boys"........always took in "strays" of all sort..animals, people,etc. My 18yr daughter is the same way....which is sad and eye-opening (she sees it,too.) Her bf is a carbon-copy of the things I love (and hate! ) about her father.
I've been thinking about this alot lately...........I am 52yr old and my AH just divorced me. I am afraid, about alot of things. One is that I will someday be involved with another one, despite working on myself and my own recovery. Maybe I just don't trust anyone or anything right now, especially myself. My life has blown up in my face......I didn't see it coming. Hopefully it is just I am not far enough along in my own recovery yet and it is a function of time and work on my part.

Thanks for posting this......I have been "churning" about this very subject lately internally. Nice to see I am in good company. I was just reading today that some feel that "compulsive helpers" are also genetically influenced via neurotransmitter working......also linked to addictions.....explaining why so many "double -winners"......they see and react to the world in a different/often more creative way.........who knows? I just know I prefer their company..........still do even after everything. Strange.

steve11694

Those are differences in personality, intelligence, aptitude, education. effect of intoxication. Alcoholism makes their lives unmanageable. Indicators include personality changes, blackouts, feeling guilty about drinking, relief drinking, anosmia, marital problems, divorce, family problems, hangovers, irritability. compulsion to drink, loss of voluntary control, multiple defense mechanisms (euphoric recall, projection, etc)
http://alcoholscreening.org/ is an online AUDIT exam. an alcoholism assesment exam respected by addictionologists

There are people that no matter how much they drink do not become alcoholic thus drinking too much in of itself does not define alcoholism.

DesertEyes

Us people of addiction are "incomplete". Whether it be addicts, codies or other flavors we are all lacking something in our personality which makes us feel restless, irritable and discontent. Get enough of us stirred up in a pot and we will all find a "matching half" that will temporarily settle those uncomfortable feelings.

It is _not_ what is present in the other dysfunctional person that attracts me to them, I am attracted to what is _missing_ in them. What is missing in them is present in me, and in turn what is missing in me is present in them. I am attracted to people who are a mirror image of me, my left is their right, their strength is my shortcoming.

Because we are both missing something in our character makeup the first stages of developing a relationship are fast and easy, as if we were meant for each other. The endorphins flow, the pink cloud sets in and next thing you know it's five years later.

When I "fill" that emptiness in my own self I will no longer be attracted to others who might fill it for me. I will be a whole and complete human being, and be attracted to others who are also whole and complete. They will still be a mirror image, but this time a healthy image.

Mike

Pick-a-name

Good description of AH and me.........another reminder of what I need to do,too! Thanks!

GingerM

For me, I fell in love with a promise, not a drunk. I fell in love with the words of how great our future was going to be, not with the drug addict. I fell in love with a concept, not reality. And I stayed in multiple relationships because I was still hanging onto a thread of hope that the promises and the dreams and the hopes would still materialize.

I could only leave when I was absolutely sure it was never going to happen. Then I didn't mourn the loss of the person, but the loss of the hope, the dream and the promises.

Now? I met a man who told me he wouldn't make any promises to me because he didn't want to let me down if he couldn't keep them. The first time he said that to me, I was dumbfounded. He doesn't drink or do drugs. He's been my best friend for nearly 7 years and I call him my husband. And I look back on how my life used to be when I would fall in love with ideas instead of people, and wonder how I could have ever been that way. Then I go deal with my parents (still As) and remember *exactly* how I could have been that way

sunshinebluesky

i see way too much of me in some of these posts...........makes my brain hurt!!!

deettah

The bolded statement above is so profound for me right now. I am mourning that. Not necessarily the man I am losing because he wasn't what I thought he was and he became someone I didn't even like being around anymore. How could I say I loved HIM when I didn't even like who he was? I think that maybe I didn't/don't love him, but the idea of him.

steve11694

I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
In somebody else's sky, but why
Why, why can't it be, why can't it be mine

teke

i finally got around to reading your post and i am sorry that it took so long. yes i relate to that feeling. only difference is that you have a job to get away to, me, i am not able to work a job, dr's orders and am now on disability due to a domestic violence incident, now i babysit grandkids and getting tired of that by the kids don't seem to understand why.my ah is not in the home finally and this time i don't see no sense in allowing him to return. i pray that things are getting better for you and yours.