Rowan

Hi everyone,

You were all just so terrific with my codie-type question, so maybe I can toss another one at ya's

My eldest daughter is 13 and lives with her father. He and I shared custody until 2 1/2 years ago when she went to live with him full-time. He has since remarried and has two stepchildren. Our divorce (in 1994) was NOT amicable. My daughter used to come to see me regularly every other weekend until about 10 months ago; she began making excuses for not coming over, and eventually stopped coming OR making excuses.

I haven't seen her in about 7 months, and haven't talked to her in 2. She wrote me a letter in response to one I had sent her about 4 months ago, and pretty much tore into me, and said some pretty hurtful things. I understand that her father has had some influence, but I also take responsibility for certain things and have done my best to make my amends to her. So much of what she said just wasn't true.

Anyway. On her birthday, at Christmas, etc, I send her a card and a little gift, despite her not thanking me, and then just returning the stuff to me. In her last letter she said it wasn't fair that I got my 10 yr old daughter more than I got her, and 'didn't I know' that 13 was a pretty big deal. Wow, that one hurt. I hadn't seen her for months, she ignores me, and then she has the nerve (or so I thought) to complain about what she DIDN'T get? In her letter she said she doesn't want anything else from me, period, and to spend the money on her little sister (they still see one another when my youngest visits her Dad on alternate weekends).

Things really are not so bad as they once were; I've done a pretty good job and letting (most of) this stuff go; the night I got the letter I nearly relapsed but ran to a meeting instead.

My question? What do I do about her Grade 8 graduation, which is at the end of June? It's a huge deal, and signifies a big step for her. She really is a lovely girl, bright, kind and loving. I think maybe she's just confused about her relationship with me since I've been in recovery. I want to send her a card, at least, because I don't feel it's appropriate to send a gift when she refuses to see me. It just feels wrong, and my intention is not to punish her. I'm just worried that no matter what I do, she'll find fault. What if she's telling me she doesn't want to see me or get anything from me, but she's really protecting herself? It's so hard to know what to do, and I feel like I don't know her anymore. She's got a great stepmother and step-siblings, and I know that she is well taken care of, but ...

Now here's the hard part: part of me is relieved. There I said it. She and I have always been so much alike, and never really clicked the way she did with her Dad, and I did with my youngest. It's hard to be with her; she gives nothing of herself (feelings, thoughts etc) and I feel very uncomfortable. Is this normal? Can anyone relate?

Okay I've said enough. HELP! This is on my mind so much of the time, especially with her graduation day drawing near.

Thanks for listening (really)

Love Rowan

teke

hi rowan,

yes i can relate and i am sorry that you have to experience this. i went through a 9 month custody battle and won but i still allowed our 2 kids to spend time with there dad and yes he did a number on my daughter about me. she grew up bitter toward me only difference was, she had to live with me anyway. she loves her step mom, but eventually she began to treat them the same way. she went to stay with her father for a while one time until the shoe was on the other foot with them and they eventually sent her home.

she is grown now and out on her own and now even though she is still bitter at times, our relationship has gotten better and i see it getting even better, i even get to keep my granddaughter while she works, lately when she comes to pick up her baby, she sits and visits. my oldest daughter also went to live with her father while young and now that she is older we have a valuable relationship. i have 7 in all and the story is about the same with the rest of them.

like they told me once that as i get better, they will too. i believe that one day she will realize how much she means to you and visa versa. i know it hurts, but she is young and maybe just don't understand yet. if you were anything like me, there were broken promises and a whole gambit of addictive moves that i made.

oops, i am sorry, you said recovery, you did not say what was the nature of your recovery. anyway, remember, she is only 13. in my opinion, i would not stress myself out about it but i would not give up. i know that its her graduation but how do you really think she feel about you going there and how important is it to you? would you 2 feel worse if you don't go?

even in my active days, those were occasions that i fought like crazy to get to. i don't know much but this is a one time thing, what do you think? i hate to say it and i am not proud of it either, but on one occassion, i sat in the back, but i was there and i did not have to carry that guilt. not saying that you will or should feel guilty at all. you sound as if you are doing so well and one day she will pay attention to your actions and you won't have to waste so much time talking.

i sure hope you are not confused by all of this, i am tryiing so hard to get better. i am not where i want to be at all but i sure am not where i was and for this i am truly grateful. things could have been so much worse. thanks for letting me share this.

prodigal

If your former spouse is poisoning your daughter against you and "brainwashing" her, it is against the law - really. Although he has First Amendment rights to freedom of speech, if he's saying negative things against the mother of his children it's simply what it is - against the law. This was decided in 1991 by the Supreme Court of Florida in Schutz v. Schutz, in which a mother, who had physical custody of her kids, made all sorts of negative remarks that made the children dislike their dad to the point that they did not want to see him when he had visitation rights. The court held that "a custodial parent has an affirmative obligation to encourage and nurture the relationshp between the child and the noncustodial parent." If you wish to read this decision, find a law library. The law librarian can point you to the correct unofficial reporter where this case is recorded.

P.S. - You have the LEGAL right to get your ex to shut up if he's brainwashing your daughter to behave in this manner. Courts will always use the litmus test of what is in the "best interest of the child." What is happening to your daughter is neither in her best interest nor your's.

robina

She is hurting deeply. She is rejecting you before you get a chance to reject her. She is a kid, and all she wants is the total, unconditional love of her Mum and Dad. And she deserves to have that love.

I don't want to add to your mother guilt, but you need to build bridges. However long it takes, however many times she sends your cards, and gifts, and letters back, you need to keep building that bridge. However many times she refuses to speak to you, you need to keep building that bridge. She needs to know she is wanted and loved by you. She needs you in her life. It's your job to do this, not hers. No matter how many times she claims to not want to have anything to do with you, you need to keep building that bridge.

I respect you for your honesty and courage. This situation must be very painful for you. God bless you and her.

Pick-a-name

Rowan............glad you are asking this;really. That is a good thing. Before I give my observations, ES&H,etc I want to interject that if you haven't been discussing this with your sponsor/s that I think that would be the best place to start.

I see alot of these dynamics with my two kids , now 18y and 24y. Their dad is still an active A; he moved out quite awhile ago but he is still around..... Point is, it looks the same......your awareness of the situation seems to be changing, am I correct in that? AH "knows" on many levels he "should" do something and wants to ........until it becomes uncomfortable. I will tell you what I told him. HE is the adult,he is the parent.......his actions have caused a problem, now if he is serious in wanting to have a relationship he needs to be willing to do the work. He needs to keep extending himself...he broke trust after trust and it will be hard to regain that (if ever) and it depends on him earning it back......at THEIR pace of acceptance. Keep the door open...listen....don't demand.........expect to hear things that will hurt and anger you but you have to go through it. Perhaps at some point the two of you could have family counseling? Have you ever sit down and talked/written, etc acknowledging how your part in her trials?

I also have to say, I hear a very hurt girl who sounds like she feels you "chose" her sister over her........if you had custody of her and not this older one who already is "different" by your own description. No matter the circumstances.....it would have to feel like rejection on some level....especially to a 13 year old girl without her mother. She is hurting; she still is a young girl.......heck, we ALL need our mothers. Mine has been dead for 19 years and I STILL need and want her!

I am glad you are thinking about this; it IS important. I know it is VERY DIFFICULT..I am sorry you and your daughterS are in this postion, but it happens in this family disease. (Don't forget your other daughter, this situation is difficult for HER,TOO!!) Please continue to post but also talk to your sponsor and pray about this. I will keep you in my prayers.

((Rowan and daughters))

p.s. Could you email? Short and sweet and "on your own time"? of her own cell phone?
p.s.s. I would also say..this is between you and your daughter...period. She is a young lady and will need to see you want her in your life, and you need to show her that. It is not about her father. Your addiction made that impossible in the past. If and when she sees you are serious and it is "safe" for her to care for you....to love you.....she will start, but she will be afraid. She needs to know she will not be hurt and abandoned emotionally again. It will take what it takes......depending if you are willing to do it or not. I hope you do, for everyone's sake! God bless you! Keep trying and don't give up on her.......even if she doesn't respond (or responds in a way different that what you want or expect) you keep contacting her.

Rowan

Thank you for your insight, all of you. You've given me much to think about. Yes, I have discussed this with my sponsor. She's a mother herself, but is letting me decide this for myself. She is being supportive, though. I agree that she is very hurt, and has felt rejected by me. I take full responsibility for that. Funny, though, cuz my ex insisted that I 'keep' the youngest and he 'keep' the eldest, like they were luggage or something.
Anyway. I can't go to her graduation because she only has two tickets, but I agree that I need to build bridges and 'keep the door open'.
I just want to keep things in perspective, though. I mean, although there were problems when I was active in my disease (alcohol) I wasn't some witch, you know? Although I do take responsibility, I don't want to overapologize and put myself at a disadvantage.
When my ex and I split so many years ago, I agreed to let him off the hook for child support provided he was willing to go for counselling in order for us to learn to communicate appropriately while raising our children in separate homes. After everything was finalized he told me that he would NEVER go to counselling with me. We tried mediation with lawyers at the time and it was a very unpleasant experience. He is unwilling, even now, to do this. I've got a terrible resentment against him because of this especially.
And I am in Canada, so although that law regarding poisoning child against non-custodial parent sounds great, it's not applicable here.
Thanks again to all.
I'll keep posting if that's okay.

Rowan

lovemypup

Whatever you do, don't give up on her. You need to tell her you love her often and it doesnt matter if she acts like she dont care or is not listening because believe me she is. You need to keep sending those cards and calling her and emailing her. She may act like she dont like it but she really does. You are the adult and you can suck it up and give her attention whether she makes you feel uncomfortable or not.
I have 2 daughters and they took it hard when I left their A dad. It was not easy for them to see their parents spit up. One was 19 and the other was 24at the time. I had to just keep my head up and keep calling them and talking to them even when they were just so hurt.
Now they are both fine with it. It was very hard for me to go through that with them but I didnt give up. I thank god I didnt. Those girls are my world.

Pick-a-name

Exactly. Rowan.......I think you know what it is you need to do, you just need re-assurance and to "do it". "Where there is a will........there IS a way!" Best of luck to you...and by all means...keep posting and keep us posted about how this is going.

Pick-a-name

Rowan...............I got to thinking..hope I didn't come across as "telling you what to do",etc.,etc...this thread hit a nerve with me, I guess, because I find myself thinking about it. I hope all the saddness,etc., I have regarding this issue in my own family has not colored my response to you. What you are doing is great...if that sentiment did not come across in my previous posts, I want to make sure it does now.

Cynay

Hey Rowan.... I have a little experience in this department and hopefully it helps.

First off, let me start by saying that ... I dont know where its written that you have to "like" your kids... many times I have not "liked" my daughter at all, usually its when she is being hateful or just being a pain in the bum teenager... BUT I have always loved her more then life itself. SO no guilt ... you dont have to like her all the time.

Now my experience.... about 3 years ago I messed up really badly. It was during a time in my life when I was at one of my lowest points and when I messed up this time I fell off the pedistal my daughter had put me on. I had been wobbling for a year or so but that day I completely fell and fell hard.

My daughter asked if she could stay with her Aunt & Uncle for a bit... I agreed to let her stay for a short time while I got things back together.... about 2 weeks into this she did NOT want to come home, she was happy there with what she felt was a normal family.... as it became a month I noticed that she had no time to talk to me, if she did her answers were short and not so sweet and her behavior toward me had gone from bad to worse...

I have no doubt that her Aunt and Uncle were helping this along... that is a long story but they have wanted my daughter to live with them since birth.. they have no children and think of her as theirs.... ANYWAY... this continued for 5 months and by the end of that time she totally hated me... would not talk to me, asked me not to come to her junior high school graduation and told me point blank she was never coming home. I talked to her father and we agreed that we did not want them raising our child that they were playing games with her head .... (long story) SO... here is what I did

I called her every two day, most times I had to leave a voice mail... but I called all the time... I planned a vacation I knew she would like... she would not go. Finally I put my foot down and told her that "for whatever reason God gave her to myself and her father. Both of us love her and are able and willing to take care of her .. so she had a choice, she could come home with me or go to live with her father. She choose her father, even knowing that she could not change her mind for a year. I went to her graduation only to stand on the side, with no one talking to me and watched her behave like they were her parents. I knew she did not want me there, and if looks could kill I would have been dead.. not only from her but her Aunt and Uncle as well...

I hurt SO much, I cant even begin to tell you how much that killed me.

After that I packed her things and sent her on a plane to her fathers. I told her at the airport how much I love her and that I would always be there for her. Every week I sent her a card, telling her all that was going on ..and I called about every 3 or 4 days. At first the calls were refused or short... but after about 3 months she opened up, we cried together and told each other how sorry we were and she wanted to come home.

I made her stay the year... I told her when she makes adult decisions she has to pay adult conquences... After the year she did come home, at first it was rough and my relationship with my ex-abf did not help that .... but today we are closer then ever.

Dont give up on her, she is a child trying really hard to live like a grownup and she does not have the tools to do it. You are one of those tools and if your consistant and persistant one day you will enjoy a relationship with her.

lovemypup

That is a great story Cynay. It just proves that you can never give up. Time usually heals all. We just need patience.

gypsyrose

I'm remembering the things I went through when I was a teenager and based on those memories I would say... Respect her space but keep sending the cards, with brief notes to let her know that you care about her and are there for her if she needs you. Keep sending the little gifts for special occassions (things that even if she doesn't thank you for now may have real sentimental value to her in the future). Think about the memories that are being created for her by what you do now and do what you can to be able to look back and know that you did your best.

My mother wasn't able to do things like that for me but as an adult, I look back and know that she was doing the best she could given the circumstances of her life.

GettingFree

Rowan,

There has been so much great feedback and insight here. I agree that your daughter is hurt and hungry for unconditional love, and even if it she doesn't return it right now, and it's so hard, continuing to reach out is the loving thing to do. And the only thing that will spell change in the future.

My partner is in a similar situation to you. He is a gentle and caring man who genuinely enjoys children and gravitates to them -- I see him with my own children, with my friends' children, and with my neighbors children. But his 16-year-old daughter has been poisoned in many ways by his ex-wife who she lives with. They separated when she was only 1. He took her regularly on weekends and many other times when his ex wanted to have free time. However, once she remarried, things changed and she began to thwart the relationship severely. Then when his daughter was 12 or 13, she asked him if she could change her last name to her step-father's. It was very hurtful to my partner, but he agreed, as he saw nothing could come from setting up a power struggle over it. And the visits became more and more infrequent as she or her mother made excuses why she wasn't available. Meanwhile he has continued to reach out regularly, continuing to let her know he loves her. A lot of the time, he got back very little.

What's been difficult as well for him is to see values in his daughter take hold through his ex-wife that are so very difficult for him. For example, his daughter has become very materialistic while my partner is anything but, and it's painful for him. He says he has to trust that what he gave her as a young child got in, and as she grows, it will be there and emerge in other ways. However, recently there have been glimpses for him and the last few visits he's had with her, she's really begun opening up, and they've had a few good and meaningful conversations.

One thing about graduation: is there no way to get more tickets? It seems ludicrous to me that this kind of limit is set when so many families today are blended and children often have more than 2 signficiant adults to share such an important event with. I'd be on the phone to the principal's office in a heartbeat -- but that's me. I don't like silly rules stopping me from experiencing what's important in my life.

best
gf

Pick-a-name

As an aside......as they get older, their own lives are also very full with their own activities and friends,etc..............even those of us living in the same hose without the difficult "baggage" begin to see less and less of them when they reach their teens. Just something else to keep in mind.