equus

Well - you wanted me to....

I looked at this site briefly ages ago - which is largely why I didn't comment as it wasn't for me, neither is Al-Anon. But I don't see any reason why it's more or less appropriate to post from this site than to quote from the big book?

Judy, you asked - Would you do that re al-anon? Would you pop it in your sig and then leave it at that? If not then why would you wish other's to do that, or think that they should?

My perspective is that as people we're not all in the same situation, I don't think 'help' that encourages black and white thinking or that relies on being reductionist helps.

My view of it is that it's none of my business to determine why people are in the relationships they are in, and it's beyond my knowledge to be able to state with certainty what outcomes there can be.

What if D drank again? He would then be an active alcoholic but what if he also was trying something to stop? Is he half active? sort of active? Or do I pack my bags? When I looked at the site it seemed to want to answer all those questions - mostly by over confident statements which was why I never returned.

If this person has researched the reasons why people stay I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be posted here.

LaTeeDa

I didn't see anyone suggesting that anything was better. Just sharing information. Take what you like and leave the rest...........

ASpouse

Yes I would equus, but I do not think that Al Anon is the only way to go in recovery, so I am not comfortable doing that. I will however suggest people go to Al Anon because I think that everyone should at least try it.

I suggested to mega to do this because at every turn she "highly" recommends to check out the site. If she just had it in her signature line, it would avoid the redundancy of her reposting and reiterating the same thing over and over again. It would be understood, at least to my mind.

Your situation with D is different ...... you handled it differently and it worked. Just like I handled Jay differently, took the hard line hard ass approach and it worked ..... however, the odds are that it won't work most times.

Al Anon, like all recovery programs that I know of or have tried is based on the premise "Take what you need and leave the rest" ..... that is how I handle any all recovery advice I give and what I get from others.

I would never answer your question if D drank again? It's something you and I and many others living with RA's might have to deal with. It's the choice we made to stay with our loved ones, we are taking the risk right?

Mike is throwing the 12 Steps around, AS HE UNDERSTANDS THEM ..... my feeling is he is trying to knock me down a few pegs, to embarrass me via his knowledge of the 12 Steps, again AS HE UNDERSTANDS THEM. I consider that sneaky and you know me equus, say it up front and to the point, DO NOT go in through the back door, becasue then I will really come out swinging. I only said to Mike, if he wants me to leave, then just say so, don't try to humiliate, embarrass me or shame me ....... for that only makes me more stubborn and believe me, it's not pretty! LOL

The internet is a wonderful tool to use .... but many folks believe it or not do not have the internet, many folks who are alcoholics an who live with them ..... there are other ways to find meetings and support besides the internet.

All I'm saying is this, I don't think lists are a good tool to use when trying to establish if you are living with an alcoholic or symptoms of alcoholism. After all lists are just written by people, just like you and me and it is purely their opinion and believe me, I've been known to argue, and win, with some very intelligent people. I just don't think the list has a place on this forum ...... perhaps as a sticky, or in the Newcomers Board, but not here.

Do I care for empowered recovery? No, I don't, but I've said if it works for you, then by all means go for it. Me, I have my faith in God, my prayer, my meditation and my home group ....... it works for me, just like D's recovery works for you. The same result is all we can ask for.

LaTeeDa

And this is different from Mega suggesting Empowered Recovery in what way?

elizabeth1979

This forum is called Friends and Family.
It is no longer called Al-Anon.
IT was never called Empowered Recovery.

My understanding was this was supposed to be about helping people whose lives were affected by someone elses drinking. Plain and Simple.

I think its appauling that we have turned this into a my way is better debate.
If something works for someone, even one person who was lost before they came here, then it has done some good.


Just like everybody has different beliefs, values, lifestyles, and opinions, we all have different learning styles.

I think arguing over something this petty is absurd and a waste of time.
Has anybody bothered to look at how many visitors come here everyday? Every hour?

I sincerely hope that if any of them are reading this thread, they do not become so confused that they leave.

denny57

What is the difference between these two sentences?

"Have you tried Al-Anon?"

and

"Go to this site right now and download this book."

Answer: One is a suggestion.

Look, if the other site works for people, great. But it is ANOTHER SITE and they do have a forum there that does plenty of 12 step bashing.

Great debate. Now I need to head back to recovery road. Thanks all - I've learned a lot from these particular threads.

Live

I think that all the thanks following the list speaks for itself.

This thread has become somewhat argumentive. That's unneccessary and self-defeating.

ASpouse

Sarah, you are right of course, and my only thought was as mentioned in Denny's post, # 3 I believe. I feel that lists of this sort tend to get in the way of our recovery. That's it ...... period.

LaTeeDa

I have no desire at all to do any 12-step bashing. It is wonderful that the 12 steps have helped so many people. I feel that the only "bashing" that has happened in this thread has been directed at ER and those who have found it helpful. And I find it sad and troubling that alternatives to Alanon meet with such a hostile reception here. After all, recovery is what it's all about. (or so I thought)

L

minnie

LTD, I feel like I'm looking at posts on the AA/Alcoholism boards.

It's sad.

Five

"So does Al-Anon and Al-Anon is very common sense also."

Common sense is very liberating for anyone who has suffered the might of an irrational mind.

ASpouse

Oh brother, only a bunch of co-dependents and enablers can take this post to an entirely new level. (including myself in that bunch) It's too funny! I'll be laughing the whole way home, I'm sure.

equus

I used to go on travel forum and YE GADS!! You should have seen some of the spats there! I'll never forget a poster who said he liked walking in bare feet - somehow it escalated into WW3, free speech, foot diseases and westerner hippy disrespect of locals that couldn't afford shoes!!

I think it's a forum thing.... Before that I think it was handbags at dawn over the garden fence, and before that people got thrown to the lions!

Live

Rlmao

megamysterioso

Jeesh--- lighten up everyone . I never meant to cause such a big "debate". I did not, nor was I meaning to imply that "one is better than the other!" I DON'T CARE. As long as someone has SOME tools to deal with the pain in their lives caused by addiction and it helps THEM- that is the important thing. I don't care HOW people get there, as long as they take the journey.

The only reason I give that link out to newcomers here is b/c it is something IMMEDIATE that they can do that I am familiar with (it helped me- if they don't like it then whatever...). When I came here, I was desparate and looking for "answers." There are NO miracle answers out there, but this at least gives a newbie a peek into the cycle of addiction and lets them know that NO they are not alone and they are not powerless.

That's all- no harm intended and sorry for the ruckus. (sp????)

denny57

Anyone who reads my posts knows that's what it's all about for me.

I'm with Judy - I'm laughing about this all at this point. Of course, I just came from a meeting . . . . . .

Pick-a-name

I found lots of great information at that site,too but to tell the truth......I do have a problem with this,also. That is not for anyone else to decide.

That man is happy in HIS choice to leave his alcoholic first spouse and now has a non-a spouse. Fine. In an ideal way (and truthfully a very male-like view point,IMHO) I can understand that theoretically what he says is probably understandable, but I think it goes too far....it is one man's opinion.

Other than that....I found it helpful. I can just ignore the other.

Looking at this, I notice these posts have gotten sooooooo serious, (me,included )like some mini-research papers! haha

FD: Thank you for posting these threads....I got alot out of them and they did stir-up some good posts and lots of thinking! How can any of us argue with that?!

StandingStrong

It's interesting to have read this thread clear through.

I guess the truth is, I have used both Alanon suggestions as well as ER suggestions. I take what I want (and what I feel works for me) and I leave the rest.

Interesting that this thread has gotten so completely off of the original poster's intent when posting it.
Sad too!

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Tally

If I read something and I can identify with it and it helps me and others, who cares where the text came from?!

FormerDoormat

I'm glad you find derailing posts so enjoyable, Judy. As usual, this thread didn't take a nose-dive until you entered the discussion.

Here's what I don't understand. In one post you say:

But just below that you say:

The two statements are a bit contradictory, don't you think? So which is the truth? Did you read e-book or not?

If you don't find my posts helpful, then why don't you find another place to play?