FormerDoormat

From The Survivor's Guide to An Alcoholic Relationship (free e-book available at www.empoweredrecovery.com)

1. Hiding alcohol from others
2. Preoccupation with drinking, such as organizing activities and social functions around it
3. Making excuses and being defensive about drinking; trying to justify it
4. Blaming you or others for his or her own shortcomings
5. Irresponsible and unreliable in life
6. Having problems in the family or on the job—including financial problems—due to drinking
7. Lies to cover up his or her drinking; breaks promises to quit
8. Have developed a relationship with alcohol, even referring to it as his or her “friend”
9. Always having a crisis, forcing the family to live a “roller coaster” life
10. Incapable of coping with life
11. Being over-controlling; demanding; needy; inconsistent; going to extremes
12. Irresponsible in controlling his or her intake of alcohol or medicine
13. Getting a DUI or having an auto accident while intoxicated
14. Missing work or being late to work because of drinking
15. Inability to perform routine daily functions
16. Having memory lapses or blackouts
17. Verbally, emotionally, physically, and/or sexually abusive
18. Emotionally unavailable; poor communication
19. Drinking to relieve stress or to alleviate anxiety
20. Drinking to relieve depression, insomnia, or pain
21. Mood changes or swings, such as temper flare-ups and irritability

megamysterioso

Thanks FD and that is a great list. The only one that does not apply to my AH is #1. He's too defiant and "prideful" to hide anything.

ASpouse

I am happy that FD posted this information I guess, but why the preoccupation with "Signs that someone is an Alcoholic"?

I mean it's really not for us to say or accuse or suppose that someone is an alcoholic, what is important to us enablers/co-de's is the simple fact that their behavior is affecting our behavior and it is us that must change. It is not mentally healthy for us to concern ourselves with "whether they are or whether they aren't".

Nothing personal FD, I just don't think this is helpful to anyone trying to regain their self-esteem and confidence after living with, being married to, being raised by alcoholics.

Quite simply this list would be more useful to people who are wondering if they are an alcoholic, not to someone living with one!

denny57

I agree. Both our doctor and my therapist said this to me - although my therapist did say she thinks spouses can say it about their mate. Neither of them would tell someone, however, that they were an alcoholic. I have learned that concentrating on this gets in the way of my recovery. More important for me was to learn all I could about the disease itself. That helped me enormously in understanding my role in my marriage.

ASpouse

Absolutely Denny ..... all of this just "gets in the way" and keeps us stuck where we really don't need to be.

Learning about the disease is one thing .... obsessing about it, finding sites that "agree" with your way of perceiving it is just another obsessive way of dealing with the disease. I say "concentrate on you" ...... to hell with the Alcoholic, they will figure it if they choose to.

equus

I can only speak for myself but it was a question I asked. The thing is D both fitted and didn't fit, at least until I started seeking info from science rather than popular belief.

Without the word I wouldn't be here, without knowing enough to know where to look for help - I mean the title of this forum is: Friends and Family of Alcoholics.

If I was a mother, I can't imagine not wanting to know if there was a problem. If as a wife it was any other illness/problem/difficulty I'd want to learn and understand what signs were there.

I don't think it's a sign that a loved one has a problem just because they have interest and I don't see it as wrong to offer some info that responds to a question so often asked here.

It's only info, not a means to diagnose or predict, none the less it may offer people something which they can identify with and use to seek help.

ASpouse

Jay was the same ..... sometimes he fit, most times he didn't, but the thing was, when he was ready, he knew he was out of control and did something about it. It didn't matter what I thought or anyone else thought about him being an alcoholic, what mattered is what he thought.

But Jay did not have the same problems as D had, so just as each person is different, so is the diagnosis I guess.

Pick-a-name

For me, it is part of the process of healing. I never was around much drinking and/or alcoholism and AH's family just thought that I was weird.....lots of drinking it turns out, is their "norm". I was the weird one having "issues" with it and of course it was turned around on me exaggerating, seeing something that wasn't there,etc.,etc........I started to doubt myself and really wonder. (AH is very functional at work and in public). AH started up and ran his own business and our son developed a heart problem with surgery and complications so we were even more isolated than before (and AH is "shy"). I needed to know what was going on.......sometimes still do when his "stuff" is the good,hooking kind that makes me forget the other. These lists remind me and help me stay my course. (we are not living together ).

It helped my "validate" to myself that this IS in fact a problem that I need to resolve, without feeling guilty that I am making something out of nothing. After being told a million times that I am the one seeing something that isn't there.........I sometimes (still !) doubt myself and I see that it is natural in this case and very common. Gives me more confidence to continue on and then more of MY denial goes down,etc.,etc .

It helps me.

I also think it helps many other posters. I am sure many "lurkers" come in wondering, starting to unravel all this and are overwhelmed and don't know where to start. This might be their first step in reaching out for help.

meli2005

Sure can relate to that list!! Real common stuff there....

ASpouse

I don't know, perhaps I'm weird. I don't need words or people or things to validate my feelings or how I feel about things. I am confident enough in my judgments that validation of my feelings by others is just not necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I make plenty of other mistakes. I found looking for validation of my feelings just confused the issue more for me.

We all need to recover at our own pace and in our own way I suppose. But when you get caught up in all the validation and justification, then it's time to change. Again, I don't think "a list of symptoms of alcoholism" is very helpful to people trying to help themselves. I think if people want to take the "I'll fix/help the Alcoholic" ride, then it's very beneficial. Me, I prefer to stay off that ride and try to help others stay off it also.

DesertEyes

It's called "identification". The whole point of "lists of symptoms", of which this is just one example, is to allow folks who have never even heard of recovery to be able to find the resources they need.

When a spouse is dealing with the pain of an insane relationship, what keywords do you propose they put in the "search box" on the computer? If they fail to put in the keyword "alcoholism" they are going to have a long and painful time finding the help they need. If they never consider the concept "alcoholic" they will never find the relevant resources.

One of the fundamental concepts of recovery is expressed by the three "A" of the 12 step programs: Awareness, Acceptance and Action. Lists of symptoms such as this one are a tool that bring those who are unaware into a state of awareness.

This board exists for the newcomer. Those of us who already have awareness are now free to go find real life meets, seek doctors and counselors, or even start our meetings of whichever program we choose. Newcomers don't _have_ those choices because they don't have an _awareness_ of what the problem is. All they are aware of is the pain that they feel.

Another fundamental concept of recovery is "It's not about you". It's about those who are still in the darkness of un-awareness and the pain of despair. When evaluating a recovery tool, such as a list, book, pamphlet, slogan, therapist, program, etc. think of it with the eyes of a newcomer.

Mike

denny57

I didn't know that. I thought it was for friends and family of alcoholics to share their experience, strength and hope. My mistake and apologies.

ASpouse

Really? I thought there was a "Newcomers to Recovery" board? I thought this board was for people trying to focus on their own recovery?

I don't dispute the validity of the list in any way shape or form ....... I just question the fact that's it's "here" instead of on the "newcomers" board. Perhaps it should be cross-posted there also, if there isn't already a sticky that lists these symptoms of alcoholism.

In my al anon groups, I was never given a list of symptoms of alcoholism because our focus is not to focus on the alcoholic, but to focus on ourselves, to find our inner peace.

Also, I never did an internet search on symptoms of alcoholism ...... but I did do a search on learning to live with an alcoholic. My God Mike, what did we did before the internet? How did Al Anoners and Alcoholics survive ...... AA and Al Anon have been around long before the internet, with people getting help and the support they needed to deal with it through church, through EAP's etc. I've several in my family who survived and lived throuh it, including myself who went to Al Anon long before I used the internet to find others suffering from the same disease I am.

elizabeth1979

I see youir point Judy.
I think for early on, newcomers, some need confirmation that this is not in their head, and that a disease and addiction does exist.
This list does that.

DesertEyes

Hey there Judy,

Really. Yup. It's called "Step 12". The way the 12 step program works, specifically, is by taking the actions listed in the "12 steps". Those actions start with the first three "Awareness" steps, then 4 thru 9 are the "Healing" steps.

Once you've done the "healing", what do you do next? You do the "maintenance" steps which culminate in "carrying the message". Well to _whom_ do you carry the message to? To those who still suffer.

The specific actions that we take in order to focus on our own recovery are steps 10 thru 12. 10 we do with our sponsors (that's whey there are sponsors) 11 we do with our HP, and 12 we do right here on this forum, or in meetings (that's why old-timers go to meetings )

All boards are "newcomers" boards. Folks who are inexperienced in the ways of recovery and don't yet know the terminology will wander into any board at any time. A lot of 'em just click on the "New Posts" button and read _everything_. One of the constant tasks of the greeters and mods is to catch these folks and give them a few tips as to where they can best find what they're looking for.

You are absolutely right. That's because you're not a newcomer. What does your group do if a person wanders in off the street and asks "Am I in the right place?" In my groups we give them a list just like the one being discussed here. If they break down into tears we welcome them warmly, if they say "No, I'm terribly overweight and I can't stop" we still welcome them warmly but then we take them across the hall to the OA meet.

That's _exactly_ my point. How did you _know_, before you ever went to a meet, before you ever found your first search result, that the word you were looking for was "alcoholic"?

30 years ago I showed up at a meeting held in a church. I went to that meeting because the folks in that program had published a little article in the local paper that had a list of symptoms, much like the one we're talking about. They were the symptoms experienced by people who had been raised in alcoholic families. When I first read that list it felt like I had been run over by a truck. It was the first time I ever realized that I was not alone, that the pain I felt was also felt by others, and that I was not insane but suffering from an affliction caused by somebody else's addiction.

These "lists of symptoms" are a common educational tool for all kinds of conditions. They're a fundamental part of a person becoming "Aware" of exactly what it is that is wrong in their life. That's why they are so important for the newcomers, and if it's important for them it is doubly important for me. First because it's the core of my recovery to carry the message, and second because I don't ever want to be a newcomer again.

Mike

equus

I'm missing the logic here... We survived before the car, the computer, education and sliced bread - yet in looking at what is most useful about anything new us surviving before it existed doesn't really help.

Life has changed, generations live further apart than they did and communities are subject to populations who move more frequently than ever - people don't always know there neighbours anymore. But I believe as people we need community so I don't find any surprise in the way it's 'popped up' on the net, cross generational, a mix of people of different backgrounds - all here, all talking.

More info is added to our scientific knowledge about addiction too, some of which challenges areas of the 12 step approaches.

Again I can only talk for me but the net has been a real asset, I chose a different path (from 12 step) with no regret, but I've benefitted from lots of al-anon members here, I THINK I've brought some benefit too, being able to share other things that have helped me.

This is what forums are about, information and people's differing views on it's helpfullness. I'm only one person but I can tell you that few things matched the impact or help I got from learning about alcohol, the problems it can cause, and how family can help. I wasn't sick, I was learning.

ASpouse

Sarah, I agree with you also, I just don't think this is the way to go about it and I have no alternative way to suggest. Perhaps a sticky in the "Newcomers to Recovery" board encompassingnot only alcoholism, but all addictions this forum addresses.

pmaslan

Mike is this a convoluted way of asking folks with a little bit of time
here at SR to hit the road...
I too thought the Newcomers forum was for "newcomers" so they
can be introduced to this site.
I thought Friends and Family was for just that "Friends and Family" of
anyone suffering the affects of living with or loving an alcoholic.
Are you re-writing what the protocal is for this site?

ASpouse

Mike, I'll address the rest of your points later, but when I first walked into an Al Anon meeting 3 years ago, I was most definitely a newcomer. I walked in and said sobbing through tears ...... my husband is an alcoholic am I in the right place? I was told I was.

So regardless of anything, I disagree with the list and consider it very unhealthy and not helpful at all in someone trying to recovery from being an enabler and co-dependent.

ASpouse

Sure sounds like it to me Patty .... Mike if you want me to leave, just ask! God, I hate when people go in through the backdoor in such a sneaky manner ....... reminds me of my alcoholic husband, when he was drinking of course!