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I'm so rude...

Old 05-29-2006, 02:06 PM
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I'm so rude...

I'm not sure what triggered it but today, my mind was going over a certain event and I am stumped at the manipulation I used to NEVER see.

Throughout my marriage, I admit I haven't had much of a social life outside of AH. I have isolated myself from friends. I can honestly tell you that in two years, I have done something with a friend TWO times. It's pathetic. It was also always AFTER I'd get the kids to bed and AH was still never happy about it.

I remember a friend of mine calling spur of the moment once.....she lives far away now but we've been friends since grade school. She was in town visiting her mother and she called up to see if I wanted to get together after the kids were in bed. I looked at AH and said, "Do you mind if after I put the kids to bed, I go see her for a while?" Instantly, he got this tone and said, "Do whatever you gotta do." Being the good little codie I was, I decided right then I wouldn't go. But, for the rest of the night, he ignored me. He'd be really nice to all the kids but if I said anything, he'd act like he didn't hear me. I'd repeat myself and he'd look through me like I wasn't there.

I got upset of course, my feelings were hurt and I didn't understand what I did, why he was acting that way and it was humiliating. I cried a lot that night and finally said to him, "you ignoring me has really hurt my feelings, if something is bothering you, I wish you'd tell me what it is...." (believe me, I had already asked but he'd just act like I wasn't there).....he said, "I haven't been ignoring you, what are you talking about?" and this big turn around happened. He mentioned how rude it was that I would want to go out after the kids were in bed, etc. it went on and on.....

You know what? NOW, I realize he is just a manipulative SOB. I also realize he probably didn't want me out scared I'd bump into one of his flings, LMAO. Who knows. But, he sure could put himself first and do whatever he choose but when someone else wanted too, look how he acts.

ugh, I can't believe I put up with that garbage. I have no words to explain where my head was to think this is even close to OKAY.

If I were to ever mention , "Look, I don't ever go do anythhing, ...." He'd quickly interrupt and begin in on, "If going "out" is so important to you, then do whatever you want....it's obvious you don't want to be tied down." Tied down? since when is spending some time with friends once in a while mean you don't want to be "tied down?"

WOW. I just never noticed how controlling and manipulative he was. It was almost abusive and blackmail....I always got such a weird vibe.
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:24 PM
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EEEEEECCCCKKKKK- I'm so glad you're getting out soon and will be moving on. That is emotional manipulation at its finest. Some personalities are just that way- controlling and selfish. My AH was the same way for a long time. He could sneak out of the house in the middle of the night, but heaven forbid I get a phone call from a guy friend that lives in another state! Like I always said, he could dish it out, but he could not take it. What's wrong with us??? WE really should have our priorities in order *sarcasm big time* LOL. Happy Memorial Day and do something good for yourself!
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:28 PM
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Sunshine - your post brought back some icky memories for me... ones I think I needed to reexamine today especially. It sounds like your life is better in many ways... and how would any of us know "better" without first having "worse"?

If nothing else, your experience reminds me exactly what I no longer want in my life and how my old behavior is part of the yuk I no longer want...

I wish you the best.
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:52 PM
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thanks ya'll.

Stories like that are a dime a dozen in this house, well sorta....I learned early on not to do anything outside of him. For some reason, this stood out in my mind today. I remember being so nervous when he was ignoring me. It was anxiety and humiliation.....I kept trying to be nice and talk and he'd just ignore me....literally act like I wasn't there for HOURS. Later he said he didn't hear me as if I was "crazy" to think he'd ignore me like that , etc. At the time, I bought into it but now I realize just how crazy that was.....it wasn't as if he didn't hear me once, it went on for 3 to 4 hours. I remember feeling as if it was the end of the world and all those other icky feelings. Looking at that situation now, for exactly what it is, just blows my mind. You don't treat someone you care about this way so easily.
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:54 PM
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sunshine, I know you have known him a long time, but I often wonder what he was like as a child, was he an only child??? Seems he is very intelligent, but did he get in trouble as a child?? (child being under 13)

If he were to sober up would he still be the same person he is now??

Of course it takes extremely long and working hard to overcome alciholic
insanity, but I have followed this, so wonder about him??

Life is too short to wait around, or even consider a good outcome,but sometimes I get curious, wondering how much is genetic??

Maybe you have said and i missed it.

Just saw a 9 or 10 year old A. It happens.

You have learned so fast, I have been amazed. hugs
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:04 PM
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Meeeep!! What's wrong with not wanting to be tied down? I never want to be tied down, whatever I do I want to do it from free will - and that includes a night in wearing slippers!

Your hubby sounds a royal pain in the butt!! How the hell does he expect to FORCE a good relationship? Right now D is doing his thing playing some funny puzzle game upstairs - his thing, tomorrow night I'll go swimming with my mate - my thing, I've been doing a college course - my thing, he plays PS2 star wars with my mate's partner - his thing, on Wednesday I'm spending the day with my mate - my thing (and he has to go to work'cos he has less leave, and her partner is looking after the four dogs!! (but we're meanies)).

It isn't you - it's him, his idea of romance seems to require a roll call!!
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:04 PM
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clancy, he isn't an "only child" but was raised like one, LOL. He has a sister but there is seven years between them. He was the only child between his mother and father. He was very spoiled and got whatever he wanted when he wanted it. His father was/is an alcoholic and his home life was chaotic. He had to tag along with his mother while she looked for his drunk dad, catching him with woman, etc. He had to go places with his dad drunk and act like all was fine while trying not to upset him because he'd get angry/abusive. He played the good son, good grades, into sports, tried to please, etc. He did get into trouble but his mom always made excuses for him, hid things from his dad so he wouldn't get into trouble, etc. It's still this way. His parents have money and bought him out of any trouble he got into. As a teen, things stayed the same and now as an adult, his mom would get him out of anything she could....she'd lie for him, you name it.

If he were sober, I believe he still wouldn't be all that moral, honest, etc. He has turned out to be much like his father. His kindness is surfaced if that makes sense. He claims, "I treat you so well....." because he talks nice and is affectionate. I don't think he really "gets" it or just really believes that treating someone well means you say things like, "I'd do anything for you...."

He can be the nicest guy in the world but it is just on the surface. He also thinks he's nothing like his father....and you know what that means, LOL. Anyone who says, "I am nothing like my father " and gets angry at the thought of it....is in denial of just how much they are like them. He just tries to hide it a bit, that's all.

Maybe sober or with some honesty, a true personal inventory, there is something good waiting to come out.....I just don't see it in this lifetime. Some people are in such deep denial, so distant from their feelings and how something affected them that they won't change it.
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:12 PM
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Clancy?? Where are you going with that? What Sunshine has described is classic abusive behaviour - punish the partner for even daring to mention to go out, so they will never go out, never mix with other people, never realise just how wrong it is. Then be isolated and totally within their control. I see this behaviour as a branch on the tree of distorted thinking - drinking is merely another branch.

Sunshine - I know how painful this is, but I also know that it is necessary. The memories and realisations you are having now are paving the way for a future where you will never have to endure this again. You are tuning your BSmeter and that is a wonderful thing.
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:35 PM
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Sunshine!
Well done you girl! You have nothing to worry or blame yourself for! you are a special person with your rights and your feelings! His feelings are his choice! You have come so so far and you should be (rightly) proud!
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:42 PM
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minnie, you're right...I am tuning my BS meter....it is a hard thing to do. It's hard to look at all the BS and realize I put up with it. I feel sad about that but that's okay. For once, I'm sad for myself, not sad about him. I can't believe I would have loved myself so little and put him above so many things in my life. I can't believe I called it love and thought my world would end without him. I know his behavior is about him, not me....but, mine is about me, not him. The fact that I used to get so upset over his is just so insane to me now. I feel quiet about it inside if that makes sense.

It's as if he has his own rules you have to live up to.......but those rules change as he decides they should or need to. I tried so hard to live up to them. The turn arounds always worked and I came out the bad guy.

Putting back the pieces is painful but it has to be worth the prize.
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:47 PM
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(((sunshine)))

You know I understand.
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Old 05-29-2006, 07:39 PM
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W used to do similar things to me all the time. The guilt trip was the same- but sor a different reason. he clasimed he WANTED me to go out and have a good time- but he would get pissed because I always said he and I couldn't go out. Cause he likes to drink and never wants to leave the bar, and I don't like him when he;s like that- but he never could see it that way. So when I'd go out (really, like 5 times in 5 years) he'd not only give the guilt trip about how we can never go out and have a good time cause I make a big deal over nothing, but then he'd call me like 12 times just to see if I was having fun. Just know that whatever you'd decide- whether you went or not- would still be the wrong answer to him. You can't win against an alcoholic/addict because they change the rules to suit them.
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Old 05-29-2006, 08:02 PM
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sunshine, I felt you wouldn't mind answering my questions. Even tho a bit off topic, none of my business etc. I should have PM'd.

You just learned so fast, I was amazed, I just wanted to fill in the rest of the story. I am just really curious lots of times. About everything in the world.

I was not going anywhere with my questions, but I just knew I would catch a few remarks, knew some would think I was telling you there is hope, you knew I wasn't going to say that, too much water under the bridge. I would like to see you free of all this, as " nothing changes if nothing changes".

We loved, we can remember the good times, but that doesn't mean we can live that way.

Of course I would hope he gets sober someday so he can make amends to his childern, but I fear he hasn't learned yet. hugs
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Old 05-29-2006, 09:24 PM
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Daisy, same here. My AB would BEG me to go out. On one of those rare times that I did, he always said, "No, stay out all night, have fun!" But only so I couldn't be mad if he did the same. We never went anywhere for the same fear....if we went to a friends BBQ, party, whatever, it would take HOURS to get him to come home. I'd usually leave him there. It got to be it was just easier to stay home. xoxo
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Old 05-29-2006, 11:14 PM
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Clancy - sorry if you thought I was giving you flak, that wasn't my intention. I am just very wary of attributing certain behaviours to drinking when in actual fact it is a seperate issue, although so often co-existing. I feel we get a distorted view on SR as there is an element of self-selection involved in many cases - i.e. it is the behaviours that causes partners to reach out for help. There are plenty of heavy drinkers who never indulge in manipulative and abusive behaviour and indeed, many manipulators who never drink. I sense that there are more examples of the two co-exisiting on here to give a false sense of causality. For what it's worth, I have a hunch that the drivers that cause some to have an unhealthy drinking pattern are similar to those that create the manipulation, hence the tree analogy earlier. Rather than seeing the tree with "alcoholism" at the roots and manipulative/abusive behaviour as the branches, I prefer to view the roots as whatever shaped us over time, the trunk as the level of self-worth in a person and the branches as whatever grows from those two factors. (I sense this may work better as a diagram!).

Hope that all makes sense.
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Old 05-30-2006, 05:30 AM
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Rather than seeing the tree with "alcoholism" at the roots and manipulative/abusive behaviour as the branches, I prefer to view the roots as whatever shaped us over time, the trunk as the level of self-worth in a person and the branches as whatever grows from those two factors. (I sense this may work better as a diagram!).
I like that Minnie and it makes perfect sense to me. Now go work on that diagram!!
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Old 05-30-2006, 07:37 AM
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clancy, I didn't mind your questions at all. I believe the answers just go to prove there IS much more wrong there than just alcohol. The way he was raised, never held accountable, never faced consequences, etc, helped mold him to be the person he is. He watched his mom lie to his dad about everything.....although she was peace making, he learned to lie....he watched his dad lie as well and many many other things.

I'm certain minnie, as she said, just wants some of us to realize that even without alcohol, sometimes you just have a bad seed (for lack of a better way to word that, LOL).

Clancy, I also know that you realize that as well and have at times, stated it in other ways. Wasn't it you who gave the quote about leading a drunk horse theif??? Can't remember it exactly but I liked it.

The above behavior is abusive and manipulative. Thinking about it yesterday, I thought it might help someone else realize they were dealing with the same kind of stuff.

If I had it to do over again, I would have just gone. I would have also not given into the ignoring game, I would have gone on as if I didn't even notice he was doing it, LOL
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Old 05-30-2006, 03:00 PM
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sunshine, old timers, would say, "You can help a horsethief get sober, and then you have a sober horsethief" It stuck with me, (Smile) However with working a good honest program even a horsethief can straighten out.

I sat in a meeting one eve where an A, said , "I was a kingpin in the drug world, with the help of AA and my HP I have been free of that life, and no desire to return. He had lots of sobriety, and had a real job.

Your shareing on this thread is a help to others. Seems we can all see what is wrong in someone elses life. (SMILE) No none of us are stupid, it is hard to do, or to change our words in the middle of a battle, while thinking maybe the childern will hear. Takes time and baby steps. hugs
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