prodigal

So my AH is in a snit with the usual rant, "I GO TO WORK EVERYDAY AND I PAY THE BILLS." Hmmm.... I kept calm and simply replied, "No, you do not go to work every day, in fact there have been weeks since January that you don't go to work. That's not to take away from the fact that you pay the bills, but I'm sorry, you don't go to work every day."

Slamming doors, "***k you" all over the place. I go to college online, I alone have gotten this house in order, I have worked (not played!) at taking responsibility to get this home in shape.

Funny thing ... what he was saying almost sounded like some type of tape being replayed out of a mannequin. Hey, he can't accept the truth, so be it. I didn't argue or get mad, just stated what is the truth.

AM I ACTING IN DENIAL FOR EVEN STATING THESE FACTS KNOWING I'LL GET AN ERUPTION OF DENIAL FROM HIM???

best

Not sure. Are you feeling and thinking that when you do something and know the outcome before doing it, you still do it and expect a different reply?

The better truth would have been....
yes you do go to work and the bills get paid but this is what bothers me ....

Can't change him but you can change how you react to him.

prodigal

I expected him to admit, "I'm sorry. I've messed up. You're right. I do goof off in order to go on benders." Funny thing is, he'll admit it from time to time. On the other hand, let "time to time" be the operative phrase here.

I'm expecting consistency and supportiveness from an addict. Boy, talk about dumb, dumb, dumb. I have to revisit why I think that is an issue.

On the other hand, I think it was simply his LYING about what is going on here that compelled me to speak the truth. I cannot live a lie any longer. I feel that everytime he gives some b.s. excuse or pretends as if nothing happened and I say nothing, I am in collusion with his denial.

Why deny what I know? Weren't we told "Know the truth and the truth will set you free."? So if I speak the truth and he goes off, who cares? I mean, I'm getting lambasted for being some sort of leach because I'm not working. (I go to college, cook, do laundry, clean house, etc. ) and he's boasting about going to work "every day" when I would bet you that since January he's taken off at least three weeks of whatever-type-of-leave in order to pull benders.

Why should I remain quiet or deny the truth when he starts spewing this garbage???

best

For the same reason I pass the garbage truck on the highway. Who wants to stay behind and smell the truck for 5 miles?

Are you not remaining quiet in a calm tone?
Are you allowing his actions or lack of actions to get you upset?
Are your replies given with emotion or in a detached manner?

If only one person shows up for the fight, they either battle themself or there is no fight.
Gentle, soft tones, non-sarcastic... state what you feel you need state and if you do so in that manner...you will see a difference I am sure. No reply at all and you will see a difference as well.

I know it can be tough to leave the emotions out of it but when we do, it sure does make a difference.

Pick-a-name

Thank you both for this discussion. This whole area is a concept that I think I am FINALLY! ( I hope!) beginning to understand. That, of course could drive me crazy with the "what-ifs?", but I must trust my HP's timing.

Thanks for the illustrations,etc in everyday situations that have,and still threaten to occur, in my daily life; not only in my interactions with AH.

I have to wonder how many of my original attempts at detatchment were really a variation upon the "silent treatment". I'm reading a new book about this (I'll let you know more about it as I go along,but it really seems promising...by Debra Jay) and it has got me thinking about this whole thing. Best: your questions really help me to think in more productive ways. I guess it helps me to see how best to take this knowledge and USE it, and for that I am grateful.

I have been bothered by this lack of truth and denial in our lives. AH is still very functional at the career level (or at least still making big bucks and "looks" the part) so there is sooo much assumption by him and others that alcohol couldn't really be the "cause" of the breakdown of the rest of his life. Why am I surprised at this? I was in denial and tried to tell myself that for years;still catch myself doing it. Why do I get angry at him,an active alcoholic, for not saying....."Gee,thanks for telling me that...I've been out-of-my-mind for years but now that you say this one thing, I see you are right!" Maybe, because there was a time (and still are short "spurts" where he really does try to do the right things) where talking over a problem or concern actually DID work. My denial is hoping and assuming it still does/will. MY own expectations feed my own anger and resentment. My own grief and fear that now that I know the facts, I have to decide what I am going to do about this......live with it or not......(neither option is what I want top choose) is what really fuels my anger and desire to fight. Wasted energy.

Thank you for directing this "energy" to a more constructive path. I hope that this tread is a long one........I really need the help here.

megamysterioso

I understand that feeling completely Prodigal. I also LOVED the analogy with the garbage truck Best!! LOL.

The truth is as each person views it. Perceptions run differently and it is comfortable for your AH to assume this "breadwinner" role and throw it in your face. You, on the otherhand, view the truth from a sober perspective and KNOW how things actually are in your household. Although I know how hard it is sometimes to listen to an alcoholic rant on about something he/she really doesn't have a clue about (MY perspective, MY eyeballs), it is absolutely less stressful to go the higher ground and leave the alcoholic to his/her own delusions. YOU know the truth of the matter and let that comfort you.

Biting your tongue does not have to be viewed as a sort of "weakness" or a cheating of yourself. It can also be viewed as a tool you use to make life for you as comfortable and stress-free as it can be during those times. It's something good that you're doing for yourself. Alcoholics make NO sense, they are NOT rational and you could never really enlighten them if you were the Dalai Lama himself!!!

Sheryl85

Okay, but how does any of this make you feel better? And let me ask you something, who is crazier, the person who is known to have a problem, or the one who keeps arguing with them? The fact remains that you still have no serenity when you engage in this type of behavior. Whether it is the truth or not makes no difference in the end. To do that is as useful as trying to teach a pig to sing. All it does is waste your time and it annoys the pig. Remember, the only one you can change is yourself.

You are going to have to get comfortable in your own skin and accept things as they really are. You are a student, a domestic engineer, and other job titles. If you feel that you are a productive member of society and of the relationship, try to learn to be comfortable with that. However, pointing out another person’s shortcomings will never induce a pleasant exchange and whether you want to rationalize it by dressing it up with words like “truth” or “collusion” the fact remains that you are still repeatedly doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results…he stays the same and you stay upset. So hit the gas and get around that garbage truck! (That was a good one, Best.)

ASpouse

Mega, I'm quite confused about what you are trying to say in your post above and I have to disagree with you on one very simple point ...... The Truth is not a matter of perception at all ....... The truth is what it is, there is no perception involved with the truth.

Perceptions are opinions, things perceived as. The truth, again is perceived as nothing.

In prodigals case with her husband, he perceives his actions/behaviors as being the truth, she perceives her own actions/behaviors/words as the truth. If the battle lines are continually drawn in this manner between the two of them, the truth, the real truth, will never be revealed, as they say. This is the typical alcoholic game of "he said/she said" ..... one I learned a long time ago to stay away from. (Sorry prodigal, don't mean to speak about you as if you weren't here!)

Pick-a-name

Aspouse.......agreed!

pmaslan

Sheryl85 you have some very valid points there to consider....
I agree with you.....

pmaslan

I am a bit confused by Mega's response ....But Judy you are right
the truth is what it is, no preception there.

LaTeeDa

I think I understand where Mega is coming from. Each of us sees the "truth" through our own filters. Where I work, I see my department as a vital part of the organization that contributes to the overall operating efficiency. I know others view our department as a "necessary evil." LOL Actually, there is truth in both perceptions, it's just a matter of how you see it.

L

ASpouse

Then L that is not the truth, it is a perception of what the truth is. Both valid, but both could be far from the truth.

I don't mind someone using the word truth or perception, but PLEASE do not say the truth is what someone else perceives it to be ........ if that be the case, we can all walk around calling each other liars too ....... or what we perceive as being a liar.

elizabeth1979

Well, the dictionary defines truth as:
in accordance with fact, in accordance with correct principles OR an accepted standard.
His accepted standards clearly vary from yours Prodigal and you have not accepted how to not allow his standards to affect you... and that my friend is the problem..imo.



I think everyone has their own version of truth to a degree.
The problem with unhealthy people, of any kind, its becomes increasingly difficult to see fact from fiction.



Truth is he pays the bills, but misses some work.
Truth is, he is an alcholic.
Truth is you are bothered by his actions.

ASpouse

Now that Sarah, is the truth, not a perception! ;-)

equus

Either way....

I reckon trying to figure out what something will achieve before saying it is helpful. Many things are true but I don't choose to say them all nor would them being true make saying them all right. If a friend lied to me ten years ago and that 'truth' had to be said whenever I wanted to - it probably wouldn't be very productive.

I think perhaps he wanted recognition for paying the bills, if I was doing that I'd probably want recognition too. Just as probably it would have been very nice to get recognition for work round the house. Maybe more alike than different in some ways?

megamysterioso

Thanks LTD and yep, that's pretty much what I meant. We each take away something completely different from a situation. Ever share the "same" story with someone and when you reminice about it, you are shocked that they remember it completely differently from you? You may remember something they don't, etc. etc. There are certain truths in the world such as "the sky is blue," but when it comes to sharing interactions with people, the "truth" is subjective. I'm not defending her AH by any means LOL!!!!!!! Don't misconstrue what I'm trying to say here.

ASpouse

This is an extremely valid point equus.

My point about truth was not so much what prodigal was speaking of, but more trying to understand mega's post, which I still don't "duh"!

ASpouse

I know you're not trying to defend him and I'm not misconstruing what you're trying to say ..... I can't misconstrue what I don't understand.

I think Sarah and equus interpreted this issue dead on anyway!

minnie

"There's no reality, there's only perception"

I think that's a Dr Phil quote, but don't hold that against me.

I have found that there is a very fine line between truth and perception and mnay times I have thought that I was dealing in truth, I wasn't. I was operating at the margins.

Anyway, back to the OP. I was in business with my ex. He was client-facing, I was more back office. I lost count of the amount of conversations/arguments we had about me being more client-facing. I used to get soooo frustrated that he didn't appreciate what I was doing - although it was not directly fee-earning, I ensured that the business ran smoothly and that he had leads to develop the business. It is only with a bit of hindsight that I realise that he was $hit scared of being the one to get out there and create the business. As in all other areas of his life, he just couldn't hack the responsibility and was consumed by the fear that he couldn't do it. It wasn't about me NOT doing it, it was about HIM not feeling that he measured up. As was the case in much of his life. So, attack was the best form of defence in his book.

I have no idea whether this is relevant at all. It just reminded me of something, so thought I'd share.