Quandry

Hello guys

I'm quite new here. I have a double issue. Well I've always believed that if you are having trouble with LOTS of people in your life chances are it's you that has the problem and well, lately I am having trouble with two very dominant figures in my life.

One is my drug addicted, emotionally distraught mother (always has been) and my best friend, who I am trying to ditch! She has been a toxic friend for many years and I've only just realised it. So now I'm trying as hard as I can to ditch her. She is so strong and can argue the leg off a chair and very spiteful and vindictive. Years back I worked as receptionist. She phoned me non stop to argue with me. I was sooo horrified. My boss and other workers were in the reception area staring at me wondering what was going on. I kept asking her nicely to stop calling my work and that I'd talk to her when I get a chance. She kept doing it....to punish me. My boss allowed me to walk around the corner to a payphone to sort it out and she hung up on me!!!!!

That is one very small incident of many. We lived together when we both ran away from home at 16 years of age. After a year or so of hard life together (drugs, partying, self destruction) we decided we needed to go home. Good move on our parts but for some strange reason as we were packing our gear up at our unit she decided that I might STEAL all of her gear and not pay up for the shared bills we still had.....(I have NEVER stolen a day in my life and she knew that - and the money issue...unwarranted - we were friends and I was the only one who worked and actually brought money into our house in the first place!). When I wasn't there she had her mum come and take all of my possessions to their house and sent me a message saying I can't have it until I give them the money for the bills. I was flabergasted to say the least. Anyway, things like this have happened since then and I'd always forgiven her because she's a bit mad.

But now that I want to end this destructive relationship I'm a tad worried about her anger, her confrontational nature and her desire to lash out when she's hurt. I cannot argue with her and any attempt on my behalf to deal with various issues with her ends in major conflict between us. She is like my mum and rings and texts and emails and keeps corresponding in the heat of an arguament... I want to drift apart slowly, just peacefully. I stopped calling her and seeing her and over time was hoping she'd stop calling and get the hint. I don't want to fight with her, I don't want to be in councelling with her I just want us to end our friendship. I'm happy to see each other at group events and be nice and friendly,more like aquaintances. I want to be distant friends...just friendly to each other but not call each other up all teh time....

Anyway, a very long story...you can tell how wound up I am about it....she keeps bugging me. She rings or texts every three days or so. I can only avoid so many calls before it becomes very obvious and so I take the odd call here and there. She is fake and condescending and I regret taking the call and vow to not do that again. Anyway, the other day she sends me a text and asks me very confrontationally if I'm ignoring her!!!! If I am honest it will be all out war, if I life I have to deal with her non stop calling.....I'm at a loss.

I want this person out of my life..but calmly. I am pregnant with #2 and after having to deal with issues with my mother I can't take the added stress. I just seems that these two people haunt me. They both hurt and hurt me but won't let me walk away. They just will not allow me to control my own life...they must be in control of our relationship and only they can end it!!! What is with that?

I'm sorry to go on so much. This friend has caused me untold heartache through the years and I've taken a massive step to cut her off. Trouble is she's not getting the hint and I'm not up for a war!!!!

Please help me

Quandry

Ok, I got so carried away I forgot to explain the point of my post. I was wondering if this is normal to not be able to deal with people like this in your life. I don't know why I am afflicted with these people. I can't stop them from hurting me. I can't get them to go away! I feel so trapped and scared. I feel like I need them all to go away so I can have some peace in my life.

I wonder if growing up with alcoholic parents has made me draw this stuff into my life. Is my inability to deal with a normal life situation a reflection on me somehow? I am just feeling overwhelmed. My mother is ruining my life in her drug induced haze and now this with my friend. I want to run away and hide.

I wish they'd just leave me alone.

best

Normal reactions Yes
Addictions suck in the people around the addict. Add to that a mother daughter relationship that you are trying to hold on to...Yes, very normal reaction. Not a healthy reaction but a normal one. There comes a time you will put your foot down and say enough, I want my life back. As you grow and learn more about additions and how you react or not react to the things around you, you will gain your life back. Al Anon and or Nar Anon meetings are a great place to gather needed support and info to help you grow in your quest of gaining your life back.

Fireside

I just read the on-line book someone in another post mentioned, THE SURVIVOR’S GUIDE TO AN ALCOHOLIC RELATIONSHIP. It has a part about ditching friends. The long and the short of it is that the author suggests you just stop communicating with them. Easy words, hard to put into practice. The rest of the book was really good...it's free.

www.EmpoweredRecovery.com

Good Luck!

Cynay

Welcome to SR... Glad your here.

I know this is going to sound strange... but .... You asked when it will all end?

When you want it too. When the pain of staying is worse then the pain of leaving.... I would strongly suggest that you get a support system in place hon... counceling/Al-anon just something to work on yourself. You can make the decisions in your life, but you have to figure out what you want and enforce the decisions...All the choices are yours though.

I look forward to getting to know you better... and remember what is most important... the children. Do you live with your mother?

daddysgirl29

Q, YES, that's normal!! I've cut the ties to more than one toxic friend, and yes, one of them was crazy enough to seek revenge for me not wanting to be friends w/ her anymore! It sounds like you've grown up a lot, though I can't imagine why, other than fear, you've kept her around this long - you poor thing!!

One would THINK that she would be adult enough to take it like a woman and after you've told her (nicely, if that's possible) the news, especially since you're with child, but she seems very unstable - the worst kind!!

I'd write her an email, and then SAVE any harrassing messages or emails that she sends you afterwards. You could then take that to the police, though I'm not sure how much they could do. I think you have to live together in order to get a restraining order, but you'd have to check that for your area. If you want to tell her in person, I'd take/have someone close by, if not right there w/ you. I'm not saying that she'll lash out b/c violence is never the answer, but you never know, and it's best to be safe.

I've always read to not make "you" statements b/c that will make them defensive. Turn it onto you, like "I don't feel comfortable when ___________ happens." Or "I'd feel better since I'm pregnant, that the stress that I feel be kept to a minimum, which includes how I feel when ___________ happens." Something like that(?)

Hopefully others will come along shortly w/ more ideas. Please check back in often and let us know how you're doing. I'm sorry you're going through this right now, but everything is a learning experience and it sure sounds like you've learned from it.

We're here for you,
DG

elizabeth1979

Welcome!

So familar! I too have had an issue with this type of toxic friend. She acts like your mother huh. Isnt that interesting? She is also very afraid of you doing anything that she may deem abandoning her.
Im not a therapist, but I would venture to say that you dont want to hurt her feelings, and so without firmly telling her you do not wish to have any relationship with her, you hint and become elusive hoping she will get it.

People with abandonment issues to not just go away. They are too afraid.
Now..on to you...why is it that you can not just refuse to take her calls and tell her you dont feel she is good for you and you need a break from the relationship?

pmaslan

Are you physically afraid of her?

Minx1969

I've gotten rid of lots of toxic friends..luckily none of them were as persistant as the one you have mentioned.

If it was me - I would just tell her that you feel that you have "moved in different directions" and you no longer wish to be friends with her.

Then don't take her calls anymore..

she'll get the hint.

GeorgiaPeach

OMG, I had one of those as well. I thougnht that I would never get rid of her. She thought that my ignoring her calls meant to keep calling and when I didn't answer the door that meant go to every door & window & look in and BANG on it as hard as you can while screaming my name! I blocked her numbers from my phone and never took another call and always had my husband (then boyfriend) answer the phone and they didn't get a long at all so she would hang up. If we passed on the road, I would QUICKLY take another road before she coukld get turned around to find me. I had to do this for several months before she finally stopped calling and coming by my house. She is almost to the point of stalking you so I would do what ever I needed to do to protect myself and my family! She sounds like one of those "If I can't have you then nobody will" types of friends and probably gets jealous when you have other friends and then runs them off. Just be careful!!!!

TheGirlInside

Quandry,

Welcome to the SR posting boards. I too, can relate to both a toxic (enabler) mother and many toxic friends over the years.

I had one girl friend who kept "weaseling" her way into my life over the years...I look back at my old journals when I was 13 years of age, and saw how much I hated her, and asked my present self, "Why didn't I get rid of her Years ago?" There's just something about that pull.

I numbered the quotes so that I can respond (hopefully) accurately. These are the statements that really stuck out when I read your post.

1. Consider this...you are thinking about her feelings. What about her obligation to consider your feelings? YOU are HER friend, but SHE is not YOUR friend.

2. People like this (from my experience) don't respond to being treated nicely. They've seen us be pushovers for their scams time and time again, and beg for their mercy over and over...they're immune to it.

3. Yeah, me too. I don't know if it was because I felt sorry for them, or because I just needed someone around me who acted like they hated me, in order to live out my own self loathing.

4. If you recognize that her anger and lashing out are her issues, and have nothing to do with you, she can't hurt you (unless she really does stalk and physically try to harm you...then law enforcement needs to get involved.). You might try, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am putting myself first right now, and don't need the added stress of dealing with your issues." "When you can have a civilized, rational conversation with me, I'll then be glad to talk to you."

5. So don't. Sometimes, the best way to diffuse someone's ranting is to agree.

6. Yeah...we just keep finding 'em and finding 'em, until we finally can see that we are projecting a negative self-image, and that is what is magnetizing us to the crazies. I would suggest you talk with a professional, or at least a support group about this. You will keep finding your mother over and over again in other relationships (even with men...I know from experience), until you can heal yourself of whatever self-defeating messages your mother taught you. Good luck, and much hope for you in this...it may be very painful, should you take this advice. You may find some help at: www.adultchildren.org
I read "the Problem" and "the Solution" and found hope there.

7. Chances are, she will not allow for this. And, personally, I think it may be best for you to cut ties definitively, rather than just letting things fade away. One of the toxic women I was friends with didn't know the meaning of "It's over." Nothing was ever over, unless she said so...until I found the strength end it, albiet in a letter.

8. Again, probably not going to happen.

9. So, don't. YOU be in charge of ending the conversation. YOU hang up on her, when she's acting abusive.

10. I think that would be very difficult, because based on what you've said about her, she may take any tiny little act of kindness on your part as an invitation to steamroll back into your life.

11. In my opinion, you are under no obligation to take her calls, especially when they interrupt your work or give you added stress while pregnant. A true friend would be compassionate and considerate of you, especially knowing about your mother and upbringing.

12. Sounds cold, but try saying, "Yes. If you want to know why, stop calling me and wait for me to call you (after work, whenever). Otherwise, Goodbye." and hang up.

13. Has your relationship with her ever been calm? Then, the break-up most likely will not be, either. Even if you are very calm, she may completely take everything way out of proportion, and make it un-calm. By the way, if she does, it's HER problem, not yours.

14. All the more reason to eliminate toxic people from your life (even if only temporary, like you may need to do with your mother)...to teach children that certain behaviors are NOT to be tolerated NO MATTER WHAT. And, to teach those little ones what a healthy relationship looks like, so they can recognize one when they become older.

15. When I look back (and in a present, still, much of the time) at how I reacted to people, I remember thinking the same thing, "Why won't he/she just leave me alone?!?!?" Because, I did, in a sense have "Victimize Me" stamped across my forehead. I thought I'd done and said things that were communicating that I no longer wanted those people in my life, but I realize now that I was only "hinting," so as not to hurt them. Hence, the "Odie" avatar.

I realize that some of my suggestions probably seem very extreme (and, you can always just ignore them and consider me a fruitcake...you wouldn't be the first), but in my opinion, you have to take care of yourself FIRST, and if that means Extreme Self-Care, then so be it. If other people can't show you simple things like common courtesy and respect, then they can go wipe their feet on someone else.

Have you considered/would you be able to change your phone numbers and declare them "unlisted"?

One thing I did a while back (not too long ago...I'm relatively new to program) is write down all the "ideal" characteristics I would like to see in myself. I then thought about the healthiest relationships I've had, and wrote down how I felt with those people. (This is on advice from a couple people, plus a book, so I don't take all the credit)
I then wrote down which of those same "ideal" characteristics...with a little flexibility, to allow for imperfection..I would like in a friend. I then wrote down that "when I'm with a friend/romantic partner, I want to feel..." and filled in the blanks. Those two things, plus a few other recovery resources, have helped me to understand what to look for in someone in my life. The main themes I came up with were "cared for" and "respected."

If they refuse to show me respect, treat me with dignity, or like a fellow, equal human being, then I can say (before becoming emotionally entangled with them), "So long!" I think.

And, of course, the very first thing I had to do was learn to like and then love myself. (wasn't easy, and I'm still working on it)

There's my $1.98 worth.

Kari

"Did you wake up today? Then it's not too late." --Maya Angelou

mallowcup

I had a simillar situation. I was best friends with a girl all through elementary and high school. We dressed alike, spent every second together and then had long phone conversations about nothing for hours. In high school, she quit two weeks before graduation and to this day never got her GED or HS diploma, she was also two weeks from getting a diploma from a vo tech. (cosmotology). We went through the rebellious phase of drinking and smoking in high school. After graduation we went out seperate ways. We both married and I moved away. She had one son and then left the father after years but never divorced. She got pregnant again and had another son. She is still married to husband number one as she never bothered divorcing. By now I realized she had a real issue with finishing what she started or bringing closure to dead relationships. We are now 50 and she returned to our town about 5 years ago. She looked me up immediately. I was horrified. She drank and spoke like a drunken sailor. She embarrassed me with her sleezy dress and foul mouth. What happened to her or didn't happen to her? She actually hit on my oldest son. Both of my sons said they couldn't believe I was friends with a person like that. We were good enough friends that I knew I should sit her down and ask her what the H was going on. I always had a parental role in her life. We have NOTHING in common anymore. I have no desire to go out cheating or drinking myself silly. She is quite vulgar in her constant pursuit of attention from men. I was in exactly the same boat you are in. It is very hard to tell someone you don't want them around because they are a jackass. We ran into each other a few times and she even came to our house asking of we knew were she could get some pot(in front of our kids). I'm afraid I was outright rude and dismissive. I had changed, she hadn't. I am very faithfully married, I am a professional, I have extremely polite, clean cut sons. What they think of me is important. There is a front door on your house. You can't let just anything in. Completely ignore your friend, it's like she is trying to provoke a response. Why not get her tantrum out of the way? I would rather muster up the courage to be blunt one time and be clear. Without the details I'd just tell her her behavior and angry outbursts are 100% unacceptable. She is probably calling you and pursuing contact because nobody else will put up with it. It's funny because I was making folk art signs today and I imagined one right over my front door that said, "No negativity shall enter".

Grasshopper

Give a dominant person an inch,and they will take a mile.lol.I use to attract dominant folks.Until recently.I couldnt for the life of me figure out why.They were dominant towards me,because it worked for them.,and i let them.They knew from past experience that i would eventually give in.What i notice about them,is that they do not hang out with others who are similar.Of course not.They dont want to be dominanted by others..lol.I am the problem.I dont want to hurt others feelings.I want to be considered of others.However if they keep pushing,then i do whatever it takes.When i became assertive,by my actions,they simply left.Because what they were doing to me,was not working for them anymore.Tolerance,and accepting is one thing.But when folks actually interfer,in my life,,as was the case, ,making decisions for me,then i need to put a stop to it,and stop playing ---my part in it---.It takes time to teach others,that ive changed,.

reader

Welcome Quandry- alot of great advice! I think Minx has a great solution. If she goes on to stalk you I would then involve the police. I hope this can be handled peacefully but if she is bringing you down than now is a good time to end the friendship. Kerry