Is it the alcohol talking or is it just my husband?

Old 04-21-2006, 02:41 PM
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Unhappy Is it the alcohol talking or is it just my husband?

I am seeking some insight to help me understand whether my husband's thinking (I'll explain what I mean by that) is symptomatic of his alcoholism or whether it's just his personality. I am trying to determine this because I am not certain our marriage would ever survive, even if he were to stop drinking. On the other hand, maybe it's the drinking that causes his mind to operate this way.

Some background...Our marriage has been troubled from the beginning. (At this point, I want to note that he was not an alcoholic for the first three years of our six year marriage.) I had some very strong perfectionist tendencies that caused me to focus or obsess about things that were not importance instead of focuses on the things that really matter. Although my husband expressed to me that this was upsetting to him, I felt helpless to control it. And to be honest, at the time, I really didn’t grasp the degree to which he was suffering because my perfectionism - that epiphany came too late. Over the past year, I have worked very hard to overcome my perfectionism by researching (in books and online) how one beats this. The strategies I have learned, coupled with my own personal desired to win my battle with this, have been successful. AH cannot see this. We have the same tired conversation/argument over and over where I explain how I have overcome this flaw in my personality and why things are different now and I get the same tired response over and over – “I don’t believe you” (I can hear that statement just echoing in my head right now). And “if I ever see a repeat of XYZ occasion, it’s over”. He is constantly expressing his fear of me still being like this and has begun (in my opinion) GROSSLY exaggerating the way things were. I cannot emphasis that enough – he GROSSLY exaggerates things, has timelines all screwed up, insists that some behavior I exhibited for one week (obsessing about a particular thing) went on for months. Therein lies my question. Do people who regularly abuse alcohol have skewed/exaggerated memories? Remember, he was not drinking when most of this was going on. Also, he still makes these some contentions about the past, even when is having a sober moment. I’m not sure I am making sense here, but I guess what I am asking is…does he just belabor all of this, refuse to see how I’ve changed, and exaggerate the past because his brain is soaked in alcohol almost every day. Or…is he just an as*? And what am I supposed to do with this? If I truly have changed (I have) and he refuses to take a leap of faith and believe that it’s true, he really hasn’t left me anything to work with…has he? Everything is always doom and gloom. He is so negative. He doesn't remember anything I ever did that was sweet and loving, nor does he seem to notice it now.
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Old 04-21-2006, 03:17 PM
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The last time I spoke with my ex he did that blame game with me.
He went on and on about the things I did during our relationship.
I tried to tell him I had changed xyz but he kept on referencing
things that happened 2 and 3 years ago. Mind you he hasn't seen me
in 11 months and lives 10 hours away but he seems to think he
knows everything. Your situation is a bit different than mine as you
currently reside in the same household. I think the alcohol soaked brain
has a lot to do with it and I also think it's easier to criticize someone else
rather than look at ones own behaviour. I have come to realize that
it's not my problem what my ex thinks of me. It isn't any of my concern or
business at all. What is my concern is that I work on my issues and find
peace and contentment within me. It really doesn't matter to me what
he thinks.....Sorry that this is aggravating to you....I do understand what you
are saying....
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Old 04-21-2006, 03:25 PM
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Well hon, it seems like par for the course but I can only relate to things as my AXBF saw them. In over a year, he has seen me lose my temper with him ONCE. HE won't let it go. Keep in mind that for this same year I have been running around like an idiot tryingto do everything in my power to return him to the happy sober man I fell in love so deeply with. No amount of detachment or kindness will work. I think that this is all part of the alcoholic's manipulation. They feel if they can keep pointing out your shortcomings, they don't have to look at their own. That's one side of my opinion.

Here's part two: If you were as unreasonably obsessive as you seem to believe you were yourself, the trust with him may be hard to win back. Put yourself in his position, if tomorrow, he said he would never take another drink. How quickly would you be to believe in him whole heartedly? When he was extremely trired will you say that you would never suspect a drink was involved?

We learn what we live and the only way to unlearn it is to change it. You have done your part, you have changed you. He may need sometime to see that depending on how bad you obsessiveness was. It is up to him to do his part to change him.
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:19 PM
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In order for him to see change in you and have awareness of what is going on he would have to have insight. He would have to take the time and energy to evalute the situation. Most alcoholic's don't have that ability. They hear what they want to hear and believe what they believe. Its just easier for them to process life that way.
Exaggerating the reality oh yes, it helps them to justify their actions. Also when they have black outs they don't really remember what happened so sometimes they have to make things up. On one ocassion I was fed up and left for a 2 days, when my family and friends called he said I had been gone 3 weeks and that is why he was drinking.
I can relate to the perfectionist peace, when things were falling apart I wanted everything to look good on the outside for those looking in....ouch I drove me and everyone in my house crazy. The key was recognizing it and doing something about. Don't know if that helps, it's just my experience. I have left that situation after 24 years. Very hard to do but I had to save myself and my sanity.
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Old 04-21-2006, 04:28 PM
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Alcoholics live in world of delusion. Heavy drinking over a period of time can impair normal functioning of the brain, but the kind of thinking you are describing isn't the alcohol. It's called selfishness, self-centeredness, and dishonesty.
Jim
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jimhere
the kind of thinking you are describing isn't the alcohol. It's called selfishness, self-centeredness, and dishonesty.
Jim

........the "ISM" part of alcoholism, IMHO. What the 12 steps are all about.

To me, your husband's behavior sounds very similar to what I've experienced and also to many other peoples' posts about the behavior of their alcoholic loved one.
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:05 PM
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My ex would say that I said are did something that I know I didn't do and I thought I was crazy because of it.

Like they said disapproving of our actions takes the heat off them and puts the blame on us.

Hugs!
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:20 PM
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I am happy that you posted your story. It has helped me by having the opportunity to read everyone's replies. I already knew that when an A was under the influence, it was the alcohol talking. And I realized that in the day or two following an event resulting of that drinking, it was still the alcohol talking as it warranted my ah's defensiveness of what he had done. However, I have always wondered about how to distinguish the times of the alcohol talking and of ah talking. I guess I believed that when ah was not drinking - it was him talking. After reading the replies, I'm wondering now if it's just the alcoholic in him still talking. Ah was a binger and doesn't always drink alot, so I've found myself quite confused at times on the alcholism aspect of it as far as telling the difference when he's not drinking.
I'm looking forward to reading more of the replies.
Hopefully sweetgrace, we both will learn some valuable things from this thread.
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:36 PM
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Hi; there are excerpts from the Getting Them Sober Books by Toby Rice Drews on her website. If you go to the site at : http://www.GettingThemSober.com and look on the left side for the link, click and go to Book 4 and you can read the chapter called:
"Chapter 5: The Alcoholic Does Not Exist Separately from the Alcoholism " that I think deals with this very topic. I found it very helpful, hope you all do,too!
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:56 PM
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The effects of alcohol on the brain last a long time. sober alcoholics are still alcoholics and it could well still be the alcohol talking for weeks afterwards. Brain cells that grew under the influence of alcohol have to be replaced by new cells. Alkies like to blame others, it's so much easier than kicking their own problems. It could also be that you have not changed nearly as much as you think you have and that he's not being completely off base when he complains. Obsession is a hard thing to kick, as bad as alcohol. And it's also possible that both of you are better but your trust in each other is fatally damaged by his alcoholism and your obsession. Trust is so fragile.
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:28 PM
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A different take on this. Why does it matter??? I think sometimes we get way too caught up in trying to figure out their thought process, that we lose sight of what's really important. Does it matter if alcohol is causing the unacceptable behavior. Alcoholics are people just like the rest of us. They have personality traits that are desirable and some that are not desireable. Sometimes it's the alcohol that brings out the worst in them. Sometimes they just do things we don't like, even without alcohol. It really doesn't make all that much difference because unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior. It simply makes the point that taking alcohol out of the equation doesn't solve everything. And isn't that the truth, more times than not?

My opinion only,

L
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Old 04-21-2006, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
A different take on this. Why does it matter??? I think sometimes we get way too caught up in trying to figure out their thought process, that we lose sight of what's really important. Does it matter if alcohol is causing the unacceptable behavior. Alcoholics are people just like the rest of us. They have personality traits that are desirable and some that are not desireable. Sometimes it's the alcohol that brings out the worst in them. Sometimes they just do things we don't like, even without alcohol. It really doesn't make all that much difference because unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior. It simply makes the point that taking alcohol out of the equation doesn't solve everything. And isn't that the truth, more times than not?

My opinion only,

L
Thanks for the reality check L!
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Old 04-22-2006, 06:04 AM
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Here,

God,

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (your A)

Courage to change the things I can (you)

And the wisdom to know the difference.

For starters how about not having the same tired argument of how you've changed with him. Actions speak louder than words.

You won't be able to make him see, or change him or anything with him.

Work on you, try some Alanon meetings, keep coming here.

Ngaire
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Old 04-22-2006, 07:42 AM
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(Long at this wrote..) In order for him to see change in you and have awareness of what is going on he would have to have insight. He would have to take the time and energy to evalute the situation. Most alcoholic's don't have that ability. They hear what they want to hear and believe what they believe. Its just easier for them to process life that way.
He doesn't complain about anything I am doing now. Every point he belabors is in the past. He says he doesn't believe I've changed, but can't offer up one single example of anything that has taken place in the past year. There simply aren't any. Long at this, I think you hit the nail on the head - dead on. Even if he were sober (he's not) and doing this, I am at my wits end. If you say you want your marriage to work (he says this), then you have to do more than pay lip service to it. And one way to do so is to genuinely take a leap of faith when it comes to your spouse. Living in the past and daily spewing negativity does nothing to move you forward. Whew, sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
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Old 04-22-2006, 07:51 AM
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It's called resentments. Until he learns to deal with them (getting sober) it will get worse. At this point in my life, all that matters to me is that I am working on my own recovery. Try to focus on you and stop trying to convince him of anything. Anything that takes the focus off your recovery isn't worth it. My AH would belabor things from 15 years ago. I once mentioned here he finally started blaming me for his awful childhood. He was willing to talk about anything except his drinking.

Good luck to you.
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Old 04-22-2006, 08:09 AM
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Heard in an AA meeting other day:

"When someone cuts me off in traffic, I get angry...when Im still angry about it a month later, I got a problem called resentment".

Its part of the disease to not let go of how they have been wronged. Its ALWAYS someone elses fault.
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:14 AM
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alcohol does make people depressed. I don't know why he is continually focusing on your personality qualities, maybe it is to take his mind off his probelms. Maybe it is part of his denial mechanism against his alcohol issues. Just a thought.
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