The benefit of the doubt.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
The benefit of the doubt.
I have always been the master at giving ah "the benefit of the doubt". I always gave that benefit of the doubt that MAYBE he was telling the truth (even when I doubted his story). I gave him the benefit of time - to uphold to his word and follow through on the promises and the words.
The last time I gave ah the benefit of the doubt was just recently
. It went something like this:
Found out ah was talking to a woman online.
Benefit of the doubt kicked in when he admitted that he had talked to her one time but had not talked to her for a few weeks.
Okay, that is believable.
He told me that it wasn't a big deal, and he didn't tell me about it because he knew how I'd react.
Good point - it is believable.
A few weeks later - I discover that he's in contact with this woman still. Not only that - he had his brother take a few pictures of him so that he could email the pictures to this woman.
Benefit of the doubt kicks in when I ask about this and he tells me that she wanted to have a face to go with the name of the person she is talking too.
Okay, that is believable as well.
Reason he did not tell me they were in contact again was that he said he and I had not been talking. Umm....yes, we had been talking, but we were not talking alot, etc. Hmm...doubtful now but still giving that benefit of the doubt.
Then I discover that he had given her his phone number and she has called him!!!!
<----that was my reaction!!!!
I could not fathom why this occured. For the life of me, I just could not find any reasonable justification in my head for this.
Ah and I were arguing on the phone when I discovered this little tidbit of info. I believe he had been drinking (though he denies it)! When I asked WHY this happened - he said something like "to hear a voice". He said it in a "duh" kind of tone as though my question was stupid.
Hmm....let's see. Said woman is supposedly married, from what he has said, they have only talked a few times, they are only friends, etc.....hmm.....
benefit of doubt is not kicking in this time.
Now.....I knew better. But before I even found out they had talked on the phone, I sent invitation to add said woman to my instant messenger. My theory being that if she was one of those people that just chatted to people online, she would probably add me to her messenger. Also, HE had said that they really didn't discuss anything personal (therefore she wouldn't know my username or name when I sent invite). They met in a chatroom, so they mostly discussed that topic of interest. Well.........she denied my request to put me on her messenger. So of course, I reacted. I sent her an email. Told her that I thought it was pretty telling that she'd talk to my husband but not to me. That was all I said.
Then I find out that she has called him.
And with that - back came the doubts again about thier conversation. I have no doubt they have talked about thier lives though he claims to not know what she does for a living, and that they didn't discuss me and our situation etc. - umm...talking on messenger and on the phone -you are definately talking about more than common interest that you share on chatroom!!!! I already figured they had talked about more than just the common interest, but I had blown that off. Knowing they talked on the phone, etc. was just too tell-taling in my opinion!!!!!!
A few days later, I get an email back from this woman. She claims they only talk in chat and that is it. She tells me she is happily married and is not looking for anything. (Please note that end of that email was sarcastic in my opinion as it said she wasn't looking for anything, promise but then had a smiliey face and ended with "have a nice day")
Well, I waited awhile after getting that email. Every part of me said not to respond - but I was angry and wanted her to know that I knew she had lied to me.
So I replied saying that I knew that she talked to him more than just in the chatroom. I knew they talked on messenger, knew they had exchanged pictures, and also that she had called him. I also told her that as far as her being happy in her marriage, I really had to question that since the above happened. But told her that it really didn't matter now.
So.........this past week, having no contact with ah and having a lot of time to just think has made me realize something. I have always given ah the benefit of doubt, the benefit of time, the benefit of whatever. I'd even try to justify the reasonings, etc. of his actions, basically making excuses for him, and would continue to be doubtful, but still give the benefit of the doubt.
However............this time - with this event, I can't give the benefit of the doubt no matter how hard I try.
I cannot come up with one good and reasonable excuse for him to have wanted to give a married woman his phone number and for her to have called him if there was not more going on than what he claims. I cannot for the life of me get past that comment about "to hear a voice". I just cannot accept that "to hear a voice" doesn't show some sort of interest or that there may be more brewing in the feelings department than he's letting on.
Yes, I believe that ah is lonely. I believe that this woman probably is nice to him as he claims. I realize that he and I are not getting along - and he believes that I am seeing another man. I realize that in his own way, he is hurt. I realize all these things. BUT to say "to hear a voice" That just SCREAMS at me!!!!!!!
And it has been since this event that I have had no contact with ah - but had lots of time to think about things. Having no contact always makes me see things more clearly as it is - and this is no exception.
While it truly may be innocent.......I still cannot give the benefit of the doubt that it is. On more levels than just one, it is not completely innocent. Regardless of how he thought I may react, regardless of the communication that they have had, regardless of it all....the point is that this event has happened and I was again left feeling alot of the same feelings I've felt before. The only difference this time is that I cannot even come up with a good excuse for him, I cannot justify it for him, and I cannot give the benefit of the doubt.
Interesting really - out of all the huge things that have happened, of everything that I've been through, all the unacceptable things that I have accepted, this online woman is so small in comparison - and yet has caused so much growth on my part - it just seems so unreal.
I realize that I was already growing and have come along ways in my acceptance of things the way they are, etc. the past few months - but this one just really blows my mind. I often think of his voice and his tone when he said "to hear a voice" - it echos through my mind. I just shake my head. I truly have no words. For once, I cannot justify it, can't believe it, can't even doubt myself on it. It's a very odd feeling.
For 18 years, I have given ah the benefit of the doubt. Given him the benefit of time, and the benefit of my hope.
It's taken me over a week of thinking on this, but here's the realization.....
The benefit of doubt has just run out.
The last time I gave ah the benefit of the doubt was just recently
. It went something like this:
Found out ah was talking to a woman online.
Benefit of the doubt kicked in when he admitted that he had talked to her one time but had not talked to her for a few weeks.
Okay, that is believable.
He told me that it wasn't a big deal, and he didn't tell me about it because he knew how I'd react.
Good point - it is believable.
A few weeks later - I discover that he's in contact with this woman still. Not only that - he had his brother take a few pictures of him so that he could email the pictures to this woman.
Benefit of the doubt kicks in when I ask about this and he tells me that she wanted to have a face to go with the name of the person she is talking too.
Okay, that is believable as well.
Reason he did not tell me they were in contact again was that he said he and I had not been talking. Umm....yes, we had been talking, but we were not talking alot, etc. Hmm...doubtful now but still giving that benefit of the doubt.
Then I discover that he had given her his phone number and she has called him!!!!
<----that was my reaction!!!! I could not fathom why this occured. For the life of me, I just could not find any reasonable justification in my head for this.
Ah and I were arguing on the phone when I discovered this little tidbit of info. I believe he had been drinking (though he denies it)! When I asked WHY this happened - he said something like "to hear a voice". He said it in a "duh" kind of tone as though my question was stupid.
Hmm....let's see. Said woman is supposedly married, from what he has said, they have only talked a few times, they are only friends, etc.....hmm.....
benefit of doubt is not kicking in this time.
Now.....I knew better. But before I even found out they had talked on the phone, I sent invitation to add said woman to my instant messenger. My theory being that if she was one of those people that just chatted to people online, she would probably add me to her messenger. Also, HE had said that they really didn't discuss anything personal (therefore she wouldn't know my username or name when I sent invite). They met in a chatroom, so they mostly discussed that topic of interest. Well.........she denied my request to put me on her messenger. So of course, I reacted. I sent her an email. Told her that I thought it was pretty telling that she'd talk to my husband but not to me. That was all I said.
Then I find out that she has called him.
And with that - back came the doubts again about thier conversation. I have no doubt they have talked about thier lives though he claims to not know what she does for a living, and that they didn't discuss me and our situation etc. - umm...talking on messenger and on the phone -you are definately talking about more than common interest that you share on chatroom!!!! I already figured they had talked about more than just the common interest, but I had blown that off. Knowing they talked on the phone, etc. was just too tell-taling in my opinion!!!!!!
A few days later, I get an email back from this woman. She claims they only talk in chat and that is it. She tells me she is happily married and is not looking for anything. (Please note that end of that email was sarcastic in my opinion as it said she wasn't looking for anything, promise but then had a smiliey face and ended with "have a nice day")
Well, I waited awhile after getting that email. Every part of me said not to respond - but I was angry and wanted her to know that I knew she had lied to me.
So I replied saying that I knew that she talked to him more than just in the chatroom. I knew they talked on messenger, knew they had exchanged pictures, and also that she had called him. I also told her that as far as her being happy in her marriage, I really had to question that since the above happened. But told her that it really didn't matter now.
So.........this past week, having no contact with ah and having a lot of time to just think has made me realize something. I have always given ah the benefit of doubt, the benefit of time, the benefit of whatever. I'd even try to justify the reasonings, etc. of his actions, basically making excuses for him, and would continue to be doubtful, but still give the benefit of the doubt.
However............this time - with this event, I can't give the benefit of the doubt no matter how hard I try.
I cannot come up with one good and reasonable excuse for him to have wanted to give a married woman his phone number and for her to have called him if there was not more going on than what he claims. I cannot for the life of me get past that comment about "to hear a voice". I just cannot accept that "to hear a voice" doesn't show some sort of interest or that there may be more brewing in the feelings department than he's letting on.
Yes, I believe that ah is lonely. I believe that this woman probably is nice to him as he claims. I realize that he and I are not getting along - and he believes that I am seeing another man. I realize that in his own way, he is hurt. I realize all these things. BUT to say "to hear a voice"
That just SCREAMS at me!!!!!!! And it has been since this event that I have had no contact with ah - but had lots of time to think about things. Having no contact always makes me see things more clearly as it is - and this is no exception.
While it truly may be innocent.......I still cannot give the benefit of the doubt that it is. On more levels than just one, it is not completely innocent. Regardless of how he thought I may react, regardless of the communication that they have had, regardless of it all....the point is that this event has happened and I was again left feeling alot of the same feelings I've felt before. The only difference this time is that I cannot even come up with a good excuse for him, I cannot justify it for him, and I cannot give the benefit of the doubt.
Interesting really - out of all the huge things that have happened, of everything that I've been through, all the unacceptable things that I have accepted, this online woman is so small in comparison - and yet has caused so much growth on my part - it just seems so unreal.
I realize that I was already growing and have come along ways in my acceptance of things the way they are, etc. the past few months - but this one just really blows my mind. I often think of his voice and his tone when he said "to hear a voice" - it echos through my mind. I just shake my head. I truly have no words. For once, I cannot justify it, can't believe it, can't even doubt myself on it. It's a very odd feeling.
For 18 years, I have given ah the benefit of the doubt. Given him the benefit of time, and the benefit of my hope.
It's taken me over a week of thinking on this, but here's the realization.....
The benefit of doubt has just run out.
When Pigs Fly
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: california
Posts: 894
SS, I think we are married to the same man, My AH atarted a relationship with someone online too, she is married and has children. My AH says he "connected" with her, that she had dedicatied a page to him that made him "CRY", I dedicated my life to this guy and I'm sure he would never speak of me in such a way. I realize the situation we are in is so painful, I just keep thinking "it happened this way for a reason" We need to be treated better then this! I agree that the ""benefit of the doubt has run out" it is time fro us to give US the benifit of the doubt and do something healthy for us! Good luck to you and plenty of ((((()))))) I KNOW how hard this is, I'm living it. The people here have helped me alot, I'm sure you will get alot of good advise. Stay Strong!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
The bigger question seems to be this. Why, after two years, does all this matter so much to you? I have read a lot of your posts, and it appears from them you spend an awful lot of your time and energy obsessing over what he is doing, isn't doing, has done, might do, refuses to do, etc. I have been separated for 8 months. No contact is not an option for me because of our children. Yet, I have no clue what my husband does on a daily basis. He could be chatting with women online, or even sleeping with them and I wouldn't know. Why? Because I don't want to know. I am too busy living my life to worry about what he's doing with his.
Your husband's actions are screaming out at you that the marriage is over. Why do you insist on continuing to dance?
I'd like to hear about SS's life. How are those home improvement projects coming along?
L
Your husband's actions are screaming out at you that the marriage is over. Why do you insist on continuing to dance?
I'd like to hear about SS's life. How are those home improvement projects coming along?
L
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Today, I listen to what a person does, not what they say.
HIs behavior screams volumes.
You deserve better than that, SS, really, a lot better.
Do you attend AL Anon...Ive been off the boards a while so I dont remember if you do or not,,,I highly suggest you go.
Saved my life, freed me of obsessions, given me dignity and self respect.
HIs behavior screams volumes.
You deserve better than that, SS, really, a lot better.
Do you attend AL Anon...Ive been off the boards a while so I dont remember if you do or not,,,I highly suggest you go.
Saved my life, freed me of obsessions, given me dignity and self respect.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
LaTeeDa, perhaps my post was too detail-oriented. In posting the above, what I was really trying to convey is that I've come to realize just how I justify things for ah. Basicallly, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and then I'd justify his actions and/or make excuses for him. Somehow, regardless of the event, I'd always do this. Perhaps some of the reasons were brought about from the guilt and manipulation tactics that he used on me, maybe part of it was denial as I wanted to believe him, or maybe it was my own insecurities. I don't know - maybe it was a numerous amount of things.
I guess I felt that when I posted this event in it's entirety, it would show that through the event, the same patterns were emerging. The pattern of giving him the benefit of the doubt - even when I doubted him. It took that one answer to really stump me. I could not find one reasonable excuse for him, I could not justify it, etc. Through all the huge events that our marriage has brought me - it took this one smaller one to bring me to a rapid halt! One which I just simply could not give that benefit of the doubt anymore.
I guess I just feel that now that I've recognized how I always do this, that was a positive step.
As for SS's life and the home improvements......
I have been filling up my calendar with upcoming events in the county so that the kids and I can get out there and enjoy life! I'm excited about that. We've also got the bicycles ready and are looking to the day we can go on the bike path which is very near to my house. I also borrowed my Dad's tennis rackets (until I can get my own) and I'm going to take the kids to the park and play tennis this year - they've never played tennis before.
Every Friday, I take my son to a card tournament that he is into. Then my daughter and I go to the library. And I've begun checking out books for myself again. (Currently have 2: "Forgiving the Unforgiveable" and "Women who love too much: When you keep hoping he'll change") The other day, I took my daughter out to eat and then we had some extra time before she had to be at a friend's house. I didn't have any money left so I took her to Petland and we played with the animals.
This weekend, the kids were at their Dad's. Other than mowing the lawn, I also have been cleaning this house (which I have commented on before tends to get out of hand when I'm emotionally unsettled) and I've also started decluttering again. I like organization and I like neatness so this was actually nice and was a "feel good moment" to see my accomplishments.
I also pulled my car out of the garage and cleaned it up. It doesn't do well in the winter so it stays in the garage all winter. I'm calling tomorrow to get it scheduled for it's yearly maintenance so I can start driving it again. (I've been driving ah's vehicle all winter)
My job is going well and I've actually had some really great compliments about my department in the past few months which is good.
Currently, I feel in limbo on a lot of things. This is one of the reasons I dislike living in a seasonal state so much. I tend to get this way quite often in the winter months. There isn't much I can do as I hate the cold weather. It's finally starting to get nice out so hopefully the plans that I've got in the works will be able to start going into action very soon.
I guess I felt that when I posted this event in it's entirety, it would show that through the event, the same patterns were emerging. The pattern of giving him the benefit of the doubt - even when I doubted him. It took that one answer to really stump me. I could not find one reasonable excuse for him, I could not justify it, etc. Through all the huge events that our marriage has brought me - it took this one smaller one to bring me to a rapid halt! One which I just simply could not give that benefit of the doubt anymore.
I guess I just feel that now that I've recognized how I always do this, that was a positive step.
As for SS's life and the home improvements......
I have been filling up my calendar with upcoming events in the county so that the kids and I can get out there and enjoy life! I'm excited about that. We've also got the bicycles ready and are looking to the day we can go on the bike path which is very near to my house. I also borrowed my Dad's tennis rackets (until I can get my own) and I'm going to take the kids to the park and play tennis this year - they've never played tennis before.
Every Friday, I take my son to a card tournament that he is into. Then my daughter and I go to the library. And I've begun checking out books for myself again. (Currently have 2: "Forgiving the Unforgiveable" and "Women who love too much: When you keep hoping he'll change") The other day, I took my daughter out to eat and then we had some extra time before she had to be at a friend's house. I didn't have any money left so I took her to Petland and we played with the animals.
This weekend, the kids were at their Dad's. Other than mowing the lawn, I also have been cleaning this house (which I have commented on before tends to get out of hand when I'm emotionally unsettled) and I've also started decluttering again. I like organization and I like neatness so this was actually nice and was a "feel good moment" to see my accomplishments.
I also pulled my car out of the garage and cleaned it up. It doesn't do well in the winter so it stays in the garage all winter. I'm calling tomorrow to get it scheduled for it's yearly maintenance so I can start driving it again. (I've been driving ah's vehicle all winter)
My job is going well and I've actually had some really great compliments about my department in the past few months which is good.
Currently, I feel in limbo on a lot of things. This is one of the reasons I dislike living in a seasonal state so much. I tend to get this way quite often in the winter months. There isn't much I can do as I hate the cold weather. It's finally starting to get nice out so hopefully the plans that I've got in the works will be able to start going into action very soon.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
LaTeeDa, perhaps my post was too detail-oriented.
The first step in recovery is letting go. It doesn't seem like you've been able to do that yet.
I'm happy to hear you have other things going on in your life. I, too, am anxious for the weather to improve. Seems like it's a long time coming this year.
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
Yes, I know that LaTeeDa. I didn't answer the question about why I continue to do the dance because I really am not sure why I do this. I think sometimes it's anger. Anger at him for whatever he's done - and anger at myself for feeling as though I brought it on myself by allowing it to have the affect it does on me. I end up feeling angry, hurt, and deceived.
I think that in the beginning of our seperation, I had let go alot. But in truth, I hadn't let go out of love for him or myself - I'd let go, No wait - I had pushed him and shut him out (not let go) of my life. I was angry.
I allowed myself to be sucked back in repeatedly. Not to the extent that I had before (as I still didn't take him back, etc), but I was being pulled back in. I knew it and allowed it to happen.
I think also that while that is happening - ah gets hope that things are working out - I still act all reserved and then when we do end up in a fight or whatnot, it comes back to the things he says to me. While I know that some of them are not true - there are some that maybe just hold a little bit of truth to them and then I start feeling guilty, etc.
I know that I have accepted unacceptable behavior. And I know that part of the problem going on with ah and myself is partly my fault as well. While it may not sound like it - I am trying to do better.
I think that in the beginning of our seperation, I had let go alot. But in truth, I hadn't let go out of love for him or myself - I'd let go, No wait - I had pushed him and shut him out (not let go) of my life. I was angry.
I allowed myself to be sucked back in repeatedly. Not to the extent that I had before (as I still didn't take him back, etc), but I was being pulled back in. I knew it and allowed it to happen.
I think also that while that is happening - ah gets hope that things are working out - I still act all reserved and then when we do end up in a fight or whatnot, it comes back to the things he says to me. While I know that some of them are not true - there are some that maybe just hold a little bit of truth to them and then I start feeling guilty, etc.
I know that I have accepted unacceptable behavior. And I know that part of the problem going on with ah and myself is partly my fault as well. While it may not sound like it - I am trying to do better.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 261
So well written and by surely put a point across. My AH doesnt know how to do the computer, but all in all we can use your story in all of our horrible affairs.
Just reading that, now I also feel that his benefits are running out. I have a 10am apt with my EAP counselor. I had a horrible last couple days so going for a tune-up.
Thanks again for all these great posts.
I dont post much,,, but I do read all and get healing from that
Just reading that, now I also feel that his benefits are running out. I have a 10am apt with my EAP counselor. I had a horrible last couple days so going for a tune-up.
Thanks again for all these great posts.
I dont post much,,, but I do read all and get healing from that
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Counseling has been a huge help for me in learning to let go. It's not easy to stop behaviors that have been my MO all my life. I have learned that I am a rescuer, and a controller. It's getting easier to recognize those urges and stop myself before I fall into destructive behavior. I still do it sometimes, but at least I know I'm doing it.
Maybe a counselor could help you sort out why you do these things and keep getting "sucked back in." Maybe part of you still wants to control him. Maybe you are comfortable in the victim role. Maybe you are addicted to the drama and chaos. If you can't find the answers on your own, it's okay to get help. I believe I would have eventually figured out some stuff on my own, but for me, counseling gave me a jump start and probably saved me quite a bit of time and anguish.
JMO,
L
Maybe a counselor could help you sort out why you do these things and keep getting "sucked back in." Maybe part of you still wants to control him. Maybe you are comfortable in the victim role. Maybe you are addicted to the drama and chaos. If you can't find the answers on your own, it's okay to get help. I believe I would have eventually figured out some stuff on my own, but for me, counseling gave me a jump start and probably saved me quite a bit of time and anguish.
JMO,
L
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
