am i in denial or crazy for sure?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: small town, USA
Posts: 5
am i in denial or crazy for sure?
Hi I'm new here and happened onto this site as I was looking for answers.I'm confused and don't know where to turn. I am depressed and have been for many years. It's gotten worse to the point of suicide (one attempt and always on my mind) Sometimes I think the problem is just in my head and that my worries are just an obsession (or so I'm constantly told).
I've been married for 25+ years and have lived with a child of an abusive alcoholic and an alcohol user/abuser as well as substance user/abuser for so long that I don't know if what he tells me is real or if what I tell myself is real. I have searched my heart to find my wrongs and have admitted my shortcomings to myself and others but I am constantly told that the problems I face are all in my head and my obsessions are mine alone and that I should stop looking for the trouble in him and take the log out of my eye first and foremost.
I have read the posts about codependency and can relate. I have read the posts about abused women and can relate. I have read the posts about addicts and their behavior and can relate. I have read and read and read and still I want to think that this only happens to people who live in impoverished neighborhoods, have had terrible upbringings, have husbands who don't work, who don't care about their children, who don't give time to their wives and send them to the hospital with broken bones, who wind up in jail, who lose their jobs, etc...who are just not there in mind, body and soul because my case is "unique". I have a very reliable better half who cares for me and my children, who is a "christian" (even though we have not been in church for one year because of issues with the modern day pastor's/church's thinking {mega-church ideology/psycho-babble influence in the church, etc...), who takes his role as provider/authority very seriously and is a man's man. A great guy who would give you the shirt off his back in a minute without expecting anything in return.
Am I fooling myself and do I make the situation worse by bringing up the issue? He hides his troubles by drinking and now has been snorting meth for 1+ years daily. It started out as recreational use as cocaine was not readily available in this area, as a means to have better sex.....I had to use with him in order to please him. Then he started using on a daily basis. It is his "allergy medicine" because it clears his sinuses and he is able to think more clearly and get alot more accomplished. Needless to say his mental outlook has changed drastically. I have been urged to and at times when he uses more intensely badgered into having three-somes and group sex which I have relentlessly avoided, I have been coaxed into using with him, something I should not have done (luckily I have not used in four months), and know the danger of giving into the urge to use this life-altering drug. We are in financial ruin and our marriage is collapsing before my eyes. But of course I am the one to blame as I am constantly looking to his failures and not mine.
I have tried to be supportive, give advice, let him find rock bottom, picked him back up again, made allowances, made excuses, hidden it from everyone. I have no one to talk to or turn to. I only have him. He is my life's blood. He is the air I breathe. I dare not intimidate him for fear of losing him yet I do fight back (sometimes with a vengence) but I am tired of the same cycle being repeated over and over again for the past 20+ years. He is not a coke head and he is not your typical alcoholic or meth user. He just cannot control his intake once he is on a roll. He cuts back, promises to quit and inevitably returns to the alcohol or whatever to make him feel better. This time though I don't think he can control this nasty drug because of how tricky it is and I really do not want to be around for the consequences.
He is in control of his senses most of the time. "He is in control" yet we are not a normal family, we are not a normal married couple, he does not work/eat/sleep like a normal person, we are financially disabled for the first time in our lives and I do not want to be around for when he hits bottom. I don't want to put my children through any more mental torture. (He has them convinced I am the looney literally; and because I am not a submissive christian woman I constantly have these issues) I do have issues. Issues with depression, anxiety, and others. I do have baggage but when I became a christian I worked these problems out and depended on God. Now I have no God. I am a believer but am definitely not following nor care to because I have been let down by everyone in my life. I have no friends, no family, nothing...... but him.
I am here for my children. They need me to be there for them. I wish I could be gone from this world of hurt and confusion but I must stay here for their sake. I have not been whole-heartedly a mother to them for a while now and I even question my decisions regarding them. I have become confused even about the most mundane child-rearing issues it is ridiculous. I don't know who I am or whether I really do have a problem or not.
Forgive me for the rant. I really haven't even gotten my question out or maybe I did. I can't even think straight anymore. I sit here and stare at these words and am overwhelmed with anguish and despair and tears. Yet I am strong. Very strong. I
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
[QUOTE=confused&tired]: He is not a coke head and he is not your typical alcoholic or meth user. He just cannot control his intake once he is on a roll.
Welcome confused&tired
that sounds like a typical user to me. :-). i can relate to much of your post of what it is like to live with an addict. it is no surprise you suffer from depression. did you suffer from it before this was your life?
you need to start taking care of you and because you mention suicidal thoughts, the depression would be a good place to start. have you had counseling? have you tried Al-Anon or another support group? that would help you because you'd be in contact with other people who are going through what you are.
have you heard about the 3 C's - you didn't CAUSE it, you can't CONTROL it and you can't CURE it. it takes awhile to truly accept this, but taking care of you first will help you see that this is true.
i hope you keep posting; you have a lot you are trying to deal with.
((()))
Welcome confused&tired
that sounds like a typical user to me. :-). i can relate to much of your post of what it is like to live with an addict. it is no surprise you suffer from depression. did you suffer from it before this was your life?
you need to start taking care of you and because you mention suicidal thoughts, the depression would be a good place to start. have you had counseling? have you tried Al-Anon or another support group? that would help you because you'd be in contact with other people who are going through what you are.
have you heard about the 3 C's - you didn't CAUSE it, you can't CONTROL it and you can't CURE it. it takes awhile to truly accept this, but taking care of you first will help you see that this is true.
i hope you keep posting; you have a lot you are trying to deal with.
((()))
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Welcome confused, you're in the right place. 
My wife was an upstanding member of our church. Sang in the choir, volunteered all over. We had a big house and cars and all kinds of things. She had a wonderful job with the county, worked on our business in the evenings. We loved each other, raised a kid, helped with the grandkids. Went on a date once a week just to make time for us. Had lots of great friends, dogs and cats and all kinds of critters.
She was a wonderful wife in every way. Our life was so perfect even our kids said we were "disgusting".
Then she started taking more pain pills than she really needed. Our life slowly turned sour. After almost 20yrs of marriage it became insane and I had to leave to save myself and give her a chance to save herself.
Addiction has nothing to do with what the world sees from the outside. It's all about what's going on _inside_. Inside of _me_ as a partner of a drug addict. Inside of my wife as an addict.
What helped me the most was to attend real life meetings of Al-Anon. Look them up in the phone book and drop by for a visit. You'll see that they're normal people just like you and me and everybody else. That's why they call addiction a "disease", because it can happen to _anybody_.
You're not alone in this anymore. All of us here and all the folks in real life meetings have dealt with what you are going thru, and we're all here to show you that you can overcome and have a life that is happy, joyous and free.
Mike :-)
My wife was an upstanding member of our church. Sang in the choir, volunteered all over. We had a big house and cars and all kinds of things. She had a wonderful job with the county, worked on our business in the evenings. We loved each other, raised a kid, helped with the grandkids. Went on a date once a week just to make time for us. Had lots of great friends, dogs and cats and all kinds of critters.
She was a wonderful wife in every way. Our life was so perfect even our kids said we were "disgusting".
Then she started taking more pain pills than she really needed. Our life slowly turned sour. After almost 20yrs of marriage it became insane and I had to leave to save myself and give her a chance to save herself.
Addiction has nothing to do with what the world sees from the outside. It's all about what's going on _inside_. Inside of _me_ as a partner of a drug addict. Inside of my wife as an addict.
What helped me the most was to attend real life meetings of Al-Anon. Look them up in the phone book and drop by for a visit. You'll see that they're normal people just like you and me and everybody else. That's why they call addiction a "disease", because it can happen to _anybody_.
You're not alone in this anymore. All of us here and all the folks in real life meetings have dealt with what you are going thru, and we're all here to show you that you can overcome and have a life that is happy, joyous and free.
Mike :-)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
She was a wonderful wife in every way. Our life was so perfect even our kids said we were "disgusting".
Thanks.
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: sarnia ontario
Posts: 128
I would suggest multiple recovery approach. First you belong here or in Nar-anon. You are being affected by his using, his stories etc etc. But, because you have used too, even though it was 'for him', and because you are having to battle that urge within yourself, you will also belong in N.A.
You mention that you are a Christian, that he is and you don't go to church because of the modern 'ideologies' of the church...and then you mention feeling forced/coerced etc into using and doing 3somes etc because of your partner. You mention feeling afraid etc and how 'he is the air you breathe'..which also allows you a seat in Coda.
I would suggest that you seek help for yourself. Your problem even if that problem is only putting up with him...learn how to find your own higher power (and it isn't him even if it feels like he is making all the choices for you and you can't live without him)...is your problem and I know that as you work on your own issues things will get better. Slowly and surely things will get better.
It took me a long time being in the program to figure out that it was me that needed to change, that I couldn't go to make him change...but slowly I figured it out. I know that you can too. I wouldn't worry so much about which recovery you pick. Just pick up the phone and pick one and keep going. Heck, you can go to different meetings each night if you want, it doesn't matter. At each group you will be speaking with people who understand...and for many all of the issues get mixed up into one like they have for you. This is because addiction/alcoholism really is a family disease and it affects each and every one in the family in singular or multiple ways.
Most important thing is just to pick up the phone, call one of the programs and go.
You mention that you are a Christian, that he is and you don't go to church because of the modern 'ideologies' of the church...and then you mention feeling forced/coerced etc into using and doing 3somes etc because of your partner. You mention feeling afraid etc and how 'he is the air you breathe'..which also allows you a seat in Coda.
I would suggest that you seek help for yourself. Your problem even if that problem is only putting up with him...learn how to find your own higher power (and it isn't him even if it feels like he is making all the choices for you and you can't live without him)...is your problem and I know that as you work on your own issues things will get better. Slowly and surely things will get better.
It took me a long time being in the program to figure out that it was me that needed to change, that I couldn't go to make him change...but slowly I figured it out. I know that you can too. I wouldn't worry so much about which recovery you pick. Just pick up the phone and pick one and keep going. Heck, you can go to different meetings each night if you want, it doesn't matter. At each group you will be speaking with people who understand...and for many all of the issues get mixed up into one like they have for you. This is because addiction/alcoholism really is a family disease and it affects each and every one in the family in singular or multiple ways.
Most important thing is just to pick up the phone, call one of the programs and go.
One brief hour...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 1,412
((Confused)) Welcome to SR first and foremost and you are not alone in your confusion and despair. I am no authority on the subject and am not trying to be. I have my own set of problems with my AH, but in all honesty, they PALE in comparison to the life you described in your post. This really struck me...
My AH has a great work ethic and has always worked hard. He is very good at what he does. He is a spiritual person and he has an IQ of 145. I just don't want you to rationalize the severity of your situation b/c of the "good" qualities you and your family seem to have in comparison to a needle-tracked junkie on the street. IT IS ALL THE SAME. The life you described is no life. If you feel you've been "forced to" participate in sexual acts and the use of drugs against your own principles, then you have sacrificed your dignity and soul for this man that you say you "cannot live without."
This also puzzled me:
He sounds like a drug addict/alcoholic to me. From everything you described, he sounds like a narcissistic sex addict as well. You need to face up to this ugly truth that you've been living with for 20+ years and get real with yourself as Dr. Phil would say.
Don't ever try and kill yourself again!!!!!!!!! Nothing is worth killing oneself over IMO. You need some serious counseling. You seem to be rationalizing this as acceptable and something you HAVE to do b/c of "your love" for him and yet you are absulutely MISERABLE AND SUICIDAL???? Your reality has truly become demented. I'm sure your children are not blind to all these things either. Children are not as naive as we'd all like to think. I feel so bad for them and for you.
I wish you the best and please don't take offense to what I said up there. This is how I view this as an outsider.
and still I want to think that this only happens to people who live in impoverished neighborhoods, have had terrible upbringings, have husbands who don't work, who don't care about their children, who don't give time to their wives and send them to the hospital with broken bones, who wind up in jail, who lose their jobs, etc...who are just not there in mind, body and soul because my case is "unique".
This also puzzled me:
but I am tired of the same cycle being repeated over and over again for the past 20+ years. He is not a coke head and he is not your typical alcoholic or meth user. He just cannot control his intake once he is on a roll.
Don't ever try and kill yourself again!!!!!!!!! Nothing is worth killing oneself over IMO. You need some serious counseling. You seem to be rationalizing this as acceptable and something you HAVE to do b/c of "your love" for him and yet you are absulutely MISERABLE AND SUICIDAL???? Your reality has truly become demented. I'm sure your children are not blind to all these things either. Children are not as naive as we'd all like to think. I feel so bad for them and for you.
I wish you the best and please don't take offense to what I said up there. This is how I view this as an outsider.
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
Hi Confused. What I'm going to reply to is just one tiny bit of your post, but I learned something about this issue recently, so I thought I'd share.
Have you ever heard of Max Lucado? He's a bestselling author, and I attend his church. I won't be able to do what he said justice, but I'm going to try.
Yes, the Bible says things about men being the head of the household and a wife being submissive to their husbands. But Max pointed out that everything has to be taken in context. He said in that time, the women remained their father's daughter instead of their husband's wife. He said that these women took direction from their fathers, so God's instruction was meant for them to stop doing that, and to turn to their husbands.
Then, Max went further and said that it's a two-person process too. He said, ladies, wouldn't you want to let your husband be the leader of your household if he was good and kind to you, and he supported you and your dreams, and he served as the true spiritual leader of your household, and he took care of your needs? All the women were smiling and saying yes. So for a man to throw around that you are not being the Christian wife, he has to be holding up his end of that relationship too.
Prior to this message, I didn't really like the idea of letting the man be the leader of the house. After all, I am my own person, and I am equally intelligent if not considerably more so. But if a man is a true Christian man and as such is the spiritual leader of your home, that sounds a lot better. In a dysfunctional relationship, where he's either not holding up his end of the deal or else he's addicted, an adulterer, or abusing you, all bets are off. Don't let him throw that in your face.
Originally Posted by confused&tired
and because I am not a submissive christian woman I constantly have these issues
Yes, the Bible says things about men being the head of the household and a wife being submissive to their husbands. But Max pointed out that everything has to be taken in context. He said in that time, the women remained their father's daughter instead of their husband's wife. He said that these women took direction from their fathers, so God's instruction was meant for them to stop doing that, and to turn to their husbands.
Then, Max went further and said that it's a two-person process too. He said, ladies, wouldn't you want to let your husband be the leader of your household if he was good and kind to you, and he supported you and your dreams, and he served as the true spiritual leader of your household, and he took care of your needs? All the women were smiling and saying yes. So for a man to throw around that you are not being the Christian wife, he has to be holding up his end of that relationship too.
Prior to this message, I didn't really like the idea of letting the man be the leader of the house. After all, I am my own person, and I am equally intelligent if not considerably more so. But if a man is a true Christian man and as such is the spiritual leader of your home, that sounds a lot better. In a dysfunctional relationship, where he's either not holding up his end of the deal or else he's addicted, an adulterer, or abusing you, all bets are off. Don't let him throw that in your face.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Birthplace of Rock & Roll, Home of the Blues
Posts: 233
It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
Keep repeating that until you believe it because It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
Over 5 years ago my exAH of over 20 years was slowly driving me nuts. He is an intelligent hard working man who is also an alcoholic though he's deep in denial. He'd forget nights of conversation and when I'd take action on what we discussed, he'd deny that we even talked about it. He tried convincing the kids I was out of my mind.
I was...
I'd woken up to find this elephant in the livingroom and it certainly did NOT go with the decor. I really wasn't sure how long it had been there. My livingroom's didn't use to have an elephant. My friends (real and so called) didn't believe I really had an elephant for a long time. Those who were truly my friends did look hard and see that elephant. Our house had appeared perfectly normal, like any house without an elephant... it looked perfect, but looks are deceiving.
After months of pleading and pulling and pushing, I realized I could not get that elephant out of the livingroom on my own. Quite simply the elephant would have to leave on it's own. It didn't. It continued to grow until there really was no room left for me ... I couldn't breathe, I wanted the pain of being squished by that elephant to stop. All I could think of was I wanted out, even if it meant giving up my life to do so...
Then I woke up AGAIN!
I really didn't want to die.
I wanted to live to see my kids & grandkids. The only way I could do that was for me to leave.
Now that elephant didn't want me to leave. It liked that I fixed meals, cleaned up after it, listened to it trumpetting... it tried over and over and over to convince me to stay, that I was crazy, that I belonged there... it stamped or tried to stamp on my feet, to block my way.. but
I woke up and left. I'd decided to live.
I was shocked when the kids told me they knew all along there was an elephant, but the 2 youngest knew more as they'd been there longer. They knew how BIG the elephant had grown. They tried to visit this elephant, but they didn't like the new zookeepers and the elephant's constant trumpetting. Maybe someday they'll go to the zoo again... but that's not my call. That's not my place anymore.
I now have a nice livingroom without an elephant. I'm happy now.
I'd still be overjoyed if my ex decided to remove the elephant in his livingroom, but it's no longer my business... actually it never was.
The only person you can change is yourself.
Be kind to yourself... you really deserve it, you are a worthwhile person.
Peace.
It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
Keep repeating that until you believe it because It's NOT YOUR FAULT!
Over 5 years ago my exAH of over 20 years was slowly driving me nuts. He is an intelligent hard working man who is also an alcoholic though he's deep in denial. He'd forget nights of conversation and when I'd take action on what we discussed, he'd deny that we even talked about it. He tried convincing the kids I was out of my mind.
I was...
I'd woken up to find this elephant in the livingroom and it certainly did NOT go with the decor. I really wasn't sure how long it had been there. My livingroom's didn't use to have an elephant. My friends (real and so called) didn't believe I really had an elephant for a long time. Those who were truly my friends did look hard and see that elephant. Our house had appeared perfectly normal, like any house without an elephant... it looked perfect, but looks are deceiving.
After months of pleading and pulling and pushing, I realized I could not get that elephant out of the livingroom on my own. Quite simply the elephant would have to leave on it's own. It didn't. It continued to grow until there really was no room left for me ... I couldn't breathe, I wanted the pain of being squished by that elephant to stop. All I could think of was I wanted out, even if it meant giving up my life to do so...
Then I woke up AGAIN!
I really didn't want to die.
I wanted to live to see my kids & grandkids. The only way I could do that was for me to leave.
Now that elephant didn't want me to leave. It liked that I fixed meals, cleaned up after it, listened to it trumpetting... it tried over and over and over to convince me to stay, that I was crazy, that I belonged there... it stamped or tried to stamp on my feet, to block my way.. but
I woke up and left. I'd decided to live.
I was shocked when the kids told me they knew all along there was an elephant, but the 2 youngest knew more as they'd been there longer. They knew how BIG the elephant had grown. They tried to visit this elephant, but they didn't like the new zookeepers and the elephant's constant trumpetting. Maybe someday they'll go to the zoo again... but that's not my call. That's not my place anymore.
I now have a nice livingroom without an elephant. I'm happy now.
I'd still be overjoyed if my ex decided to remove the elephant in his livingroom, but it's no longer my business... actually it never was.
The only person you can change is yourself.
Be kind to yourself... you really deserve it, you are a worthwhile person.
Peace.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Originally Posted by TexasGirl
Yes, the Bible says things about men being the head of the household and a wife being submissive to their husbands.
Welcome, c&t. I hope you stick around to read and post a lot. There's so much good info on this site. Face to face is good too - I found counselling and al-anon to be a great help in asking the questions to which I needed to figure out the answers.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: small town, USA
Posts: 5
continued confusion and clarification
Thanks for the feedback. Please let me clarify. I have not nor do I intend in participating in any sex acts that are outside my marriage or that involve any one other than my husband. Second, his convincing/forcing me to use with him was only once a week or bi-monthly in order for him to have explosive, mind blowing sex and I have told him and continue to tell him that I am aware of his middle-aged desires and please him because I choose to and that I do not want to be made to feel that he can only have sex with me if he is high as opposed to when he is sober. He is not a narcissitic sex addict either, this behavior only came into my life this past year that he has been on meth. He started getting into porn, then videos (something he never did ever) and now constantly talking about having sex with others but only if I'm included. Third, the fact that he has over the years abused or misused alcohol/drugs has been a gradual thing, not always there. (I'm not trying to sugar coat nor do I want to be totally negative or unfair)
Thank you all especially to Desert Eyes and Megamysterioso, He does have a great work ethic. He is spiritual. He is a good friend. He has good morals. This is the person I married. This is the person he is underneath. This is not the person I have been living with for the past year. He has changed. His morals have changed. The way he views life has changed. At first I thought it was a mid life crisis. You also have to understand that we have been dealing with other issues as well that have contributed to his behavior and negative attitude. Our whole world was turned upside down and we had the carpet rolled out from underneath us. But there are so many issues here that it is a wonder I am still coherent. I know I need help. I know he needs help. I know I am not the cause nor the cure nor am I in control. I am embarassed by this situation and if I seek counseling as I have in the past it is just another excuse for a fight and for why things have gone wrong.
You see, he is in control. I know that. He is selfish. I know that. He is a male cheauvanist (?spelling) pig. I know that. But I also know him to be the most gentle, sensitive, caring, affectionate, generous, forgiving, fair, nonjudgemental, loving, romantic, passionate, friendly, kind, compassionate, good human being in the whole world. No one we know has anything bad to say about him. Ever!!! What has happened?????????????
As a christian woman who is to be a helper how do I continue to behave in a manner which is against my Lord? How do I stand up for what is morally correct and not be a disobedient wife? How do I, with all my shortcomings, say enough is enough without seeming holier-than-thou? How do I overcome those demons which terrorize my family with prayer alone? How do I let go and let God and stand by and let everything collapse around me? How do I let him ruin our marriage and our family and just let it happen? How do I by my grace and reverence, not with my mouth influence him to be godly (1st Peter)??? How can I be godly if I don't even believe in anything anymore??? How do I do these things which I have done in the past in one form or another and not take evasive/defensive/offensive action? How do I just let it all happen without moving a finger?
Thank you all especially to Desert Eyes and Megamysterioso, He does have a great work ethic. He is spiritual. He is a good friend. He has good morals. This is the person I married. This is the person he is underneath. This is not the person I have been living with for the past year. He has changed. His morals have changed. The way he views life has changed. At first I thought it was a mid life crisis. You also have to understand that we have been dealing with other issues as well that have contributed to his behavior and negative attitude. Our whole world was turned upside down and we had the carpet rolled out from underneath us. But there are so many issues here that it is a wonder I am still coherent. I know I need help. I know he needs help. I know I am not the cause nor the cure nor am I in control. I am embarassed by this situation and if I seek counseling as I have in the past it is just another excuse for a fight and for why things have gone wrong.
You see, he is in control. I know that. He is selfish. I know that. He is a male cheauvanist (?spelling) pig. I know that. But I also know him to be the most gentle, sensitive, caring, affectionate, generous, forgiving, fair, nonjudgemental, loving, romantic, passionate, friendly, kind, compassionate, good human being in the whole world. No one we know has anything bad to say about him. Ever!!! What has happened?????????????
As a christian woman who is to be a helper how do I continue to behave in a manner which is against my Lord? How do I stand up for what is morally correct and not be a disobedient wife? How do I, with all my shortcomings, say enough is enough without seeming holier-than-thou? How do I overcome those demons which terrorize my family with prayer alone? How do I let go and let God and stand by and let everything collapse around me? How do I let him ruin our marriage and our family and just let it happen? How do I by my grace and reverence, not with my mouth influence him to be godly (1st Peter)??? How can I be godly if I don't even believe in anything anymore??? How do I do these things which I have done in the past in one form or another and not take evasive/defensive/offensive action? How do I just let it all happen without moving a finger?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
What you say in your post is very contradictory. You say he is a moral man, but his morals are gone, etc. And yes, it's been a gradual increase. It's a progressive disease.
I don't have much more to add. I sense that you want to approach this first and foremost from a Christian point of view; maybe I'm wrong, but if not, I just won't be much help there.
Good luck to you with everything - I can tell you are in a lot of pain.
I don't have much more to add. I sense that you want to approach this first and foremost from a Christian point of view; maybe I'm wrong, but if not, I just won't be much help there.
Good luck to you with everything - I can tell you are in a lot of pain.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 318
I am depressed and have been for many years. It's gotten worse to the point of suicide (one attempt and always on my mind) Sometimes I think the problem is just in my head and that my worries are just an obsession (or so I'm constantly told).
I have been there, and I am there now. I tried to end my life on 2 occassions, and it is ALWAYS on my mind now. I also had been depressed for a very long time before the 1st attempt. I was married at the time (am not anymore), and we were having allot of problems. When I began getting help for the depression, he laughed at me. He told me over and over again that I just couldn't handle my own problems, that i was weak for needing/getting help, that i couldn't hadle life, etc. I finally got mad enough that I told him it was either I get help and take the antidepressant, or I was going to end up dead. He laughed and said "Don't kill yourself". I asked him why not, and he says "Because you don't have a good reason". Some loving husband! Not long after that was my first suicide attempt. When my mom called from the hospital to let him know, the first thing he said to me was "Why are you doing this to me?"
The depression and negative thoughts is something I fight on a daily basis. It is often very hard to not give up and give in to those thoughts, but I have been able to find help to keep me going, at least for today!
Everyone has given you very good advice on here. You need to get you some help right now, for you! You can't change him, but you can work on yourself. Are you seeing a therapist? What about a doctor to evaluate if medication is needed to correct an imbalance of chemicals? Alanon and/or Nar-anon is also very very good and if nothing else, is a good first step. Keep coming here as well. Here you will find that you are not alone, you are not just "obsessed", it is not just "in your head" and there are many reasons to keep you here, in this world.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: small town, USA
Posts: 5
I don't know how I want to approach this. I am confused. My world is upside down. What I held to be true is no longer. What I believe is no longer relevant to my life. I have no faith in "men of the cloth" nor do I believe in psycho-babble. I know that I cannot change anyone but myself. I want normalcy if there is such a thing. I want sobriety and truth.
AS far as the obedient wife -- meaning that there are guidelines for women and men. They were not created equal yet are equal in God's eyes. Each has their set of responsibilities and in a perfect world they would be carried out effortlessly. But we live in a fallen world and we live in the flesh which is weak. I hate not the sinner but the sin (although the line gets very fuzzy). I would love to blame this all on my husband but I know that my behavior contributes to the dysfunction because I am dysfunctional. He is dysfunctional and the world is dysfunctional. (so much for the psycho-babble) Life is complicated. Christianity is complicated. there are rules and regulations put upon us by men and their religion(s) but there is only one God and he never changes. I do not want to put God on trial here nor do I want to defend christianity nor bash it. Nor do I want to bash psychology or psychiatrists or counselors because the human psyche is a science and patterns of behavior can be corrected and mental illness is real. I am just against any type of cop-out for our own behavior. Even though I do a pretty good job of copping out myself at times.
I want to know what to do and I also know none of you can tell me what the answer is except within myself. I want to be able to look in a mirror and see clearly and get out of this fog which is getting foggier. I want to be told that the things I think are true and not a figment of my imagination. I want things to be right and real. I want my husband back and I want him to stop the insanity. I want my children not to hurt when we fight. I want them not to hear the awful things they hear. I want my world to stop spinning and let me off. I am mad and desperate and sad and frightened and confused and tired and sick of all the lies and cover-ups and I want to stop the ranting and the rage that I feel inside and I want to never cry again and I want to yell and vent and kick and scream and cry and be held and told that I am not insane, I am not making it up, I am not obsessing, I am not sick, I am not crazy, I am not being a drama queen, I am not a masoquist, I am not a bad person!!!!!!!!!!
AS far as the obedient wife -- meaning that there are guidelines for women and men. They were not created equal yet are equal in God's eyes. Each has their set of responsibilities and in a perfect world they would be carried out effortlessly. But we live in a fallen world and we live in the flesh which is weak. I hate not the sinner but the sin (although the line gets very fuzzy). I would love to blame this all on my husband but I know that my behavior contributes to the dysfunction because I am dysfunctional. He is dysfunctional and the world is dysfunctional. (so much for the psycho-babble) Life is complicated. Christianity is complicated. there are rules and regulations put upon us by men and their religion(s) but there is only one God and he never changes. I do not want to put God on trial here nor do I want to defend christianity nor bash it. Nor do I want to bash psychology or psychiatrists or counselors because the human psyche is a science and patterns of behavior can be corrected and mental illness is real. I am just against any type of cop-out for our own behavior. Even though I do a pretty good job of copping out myself at times.
I want to know what to do and I also know none of you can tell me what the answer is except within myself. I want to be able to look in a mirror and see clearly and get out of this fog which is getting foggier. I want to be told that the things I think are true and not a figment of my imagination. I want things to be right and real. I want my husband back and I want him to stop the insanity. I want my children not to hurt when we fight. I want them not to hear the awful things they hear. I want my world to stop spinning and let me off. I am mad and desperate and sad and frightened and confused and tired and sick of all the lies and cover-ups and I want to stop the ranting and the rage that I feel inside and I want to never cry again and I want to yell and vent and kick and scream and cry and be held and told that I am not insane, I am not making it up, I am not obsessing, I am not sick, I am not crazy, I am not being a drama queen, I am not a masoquist, I am not a bad person!!!!!!!!!!
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Welcome to SR confused&tired, you found a good place to start. If I may...
This comment is very conflicting with this next one....
Actually, this IS normal for an addict. And it sounds to me like your "better half" is NOT taking his "better half" role very seriously.
Again, actions not indicative about his role as a Father, husband and provider taken very seriously. Actually, he IS out of control.
Sounds like he's very good at brain washing everyone in the home.
Your children are being raised in a toxic environmet where alcohol abuse, drug abuse and no respect for women, (abuse) is the norm. This is my take as an outside observer who has been both an addict myself and married to one, (in other words, can't fool me). I hope this helps you see the reality of your living situation. There is help to be had and with an open mind, there's no telling how far you can go.
Originally Posted by confused&tired
I have a very reliable better half who cares for me and my children, who is a "christian" who takes his role as provider/authority very seriously and is a man's man. A great guy who would give you the shirt off his back in a minute without expecting anything in return.
He is not a coke head and he is not your typical alcoholic or meth user. He just cannot control his intake once he is on a roll. He cuts back, promises to quit and inevitably returns to the alcohol or whatever to make him feel better. This time though I don't think he can control this nasty drug because of how tricky it is and I really do not want to be around for the consequences.
He is in control of his senses most of the time. "He is in control" yet we are not a normal family, we are not a normal married couple, he does not work/eat/sleep like a normal person, we are financially disabled for the first time in our lives and I do not want to be around for when he hits bottom.
I don't want to put my children through any more mental torture. (He has them convinced I am the looney literally; and because I am not a submissive christian woman I constantly have these issues)
I am here for my children. They need me to be there for them.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: small town, USA
Posts: 5
The more you guys respond the more ashamed/embarassed I feel. Thank you for your concern and sincerity. It hurts to think that what I view as loving is really what you guys view as sick. I live in this messed up world I call a marriage and I see both sides of the fence. I see your point of view and agree and wish I were strong enough to jump the fence. I see the other side of the fence which for the most part is good and can see all of you shaking your heads saying boy is she in denial! I embody the word contradiction. Look it up and my face is plastered all over the page. Sorry but I am hanging on by my fingernails and trying to stay alive. I want to be fair to both sides of the fence. I cannot say all the negative things he does and take away his good qualities and all his good deeds. I am not his judge nor can I make him pay for his mistakes. Just like I cannot make myself out to be the poor defenseless battered philly who does not know how to fight back. Believe me I can fight. I have fought and continue to fight. I just want it to stop because I know the damage it has done, continues to do and will do not just to us (which by the way we are on the brink of separation) but to the innocent lives we have brought into the world together. I have shielded my children from much of what goes on but I am no fool and know that they are affected by all the fighting and lies and confusion. They are resilient but they are not immune and I don't want to mess up their heads any more. And I don't want my head messed with any more either.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hey there confused,
I understand. That's exactly the way I felt when I first arrived here. As you read thru other people's posts you'll see that all of us felt that way.
You will stop ranting. You will loose the rage. You will stop crying. You will loose the need to yell and kick and scream and cry. You are not insane. You are not making it up. You are not obsessing. You are not sick or crazy. You are not being a drama queen. You are not a masoquist and you are not a bad person.
I can tell you what you are, because you are the same thing I am. You are a good person who has been affected by the "family disease" of addiction. That is all. You can heal from this disease and have a life that is free of all that pain. You have already started to heal just by sharing on this forum.
Exaclty right. What we can do is tell you what our own answers have been, so that you can pick and choose from our experience those parts that are useful to you.
I'll tell you how I did that. When I married my wife I made vows to my God. Those vows were _not_ made to my wife. I didn't promise _her_. I promised my "Higher Power". At that point I turned over my life and my will to my HP to guide me thru the rest of my life as a Husband to my Wife. I have not failed in that promise as I have given the gift of my love to my wife. However, my wife has the choice in whether she _accepts_ my gifts, and whether she follows her own vows. My vows include treating my wife with respect and dignity, and that means that I must respect _her_ choices. If her choice is to refuse my gifts, and refuse her vows, then I must respect that. When I divorced my wife I was simply honoring my promise to respect _her_ choices.
I don't know how it works for you. The way my beliefs work for me is to look at how Christ lived his life. I see him as very definetly _not_ a passive person. His clearing out of the temple and protecting of the repentant sinners was clearly an act of _assertiveness_. You mention "evasive/defensive/offensive action". That is not what my beliefs tell me to do, so I agree with you. What my beliefs tell me to do is protection, self-respect, dignity. None of these are intended to cause harm to another, only to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
The way I do it is by example. My grace and reverence is "hidden under a basket" if I do not take actions based on those virtues. When I tolerate offense against myself or my children that is not grace or reverence. That is failure to protect that which my HP has made. I _act_ in grace and reverence thru protection, self-respect and dignity. And I find concrete examples of how that is done in the meetings of a 12 step fellowship.
God understands that my faith will waver. I am not expected to be perfect. I am allowed to act in manners that are righteous and faithful even if I do _not_ have faith at the time. The most powerful words I have heard in the fellowships of recovery are that I do _not_ have to believe. I only have to act.
You will survive and overcome all this. You will find your faith and your way again. You are loved by God, even though you cannot see it at this moment. You don't have to believe that. All of us here in this forum, and all the other recovering people in all the real life meetings will believe this for you until you can believe it yourself.
Mike :-)
Originally Posted by confused&tired
... I am mad and desperate and sad and frightened and confused and tired and sick of all the lies and cover-ups and I want to stop the ranting and the rage that I feel inside and I want to never cry again and I want to yell and vent and kick and scream and cry and be held and told that I am not insane, I am not making it up, I am not obsessing, I am not sick, I am not crazy, I am not being a drama queen, I am not a masoquist, I am not a bad person!!!!!!!!!! ...
You will stop ranting. You will loose the rage. You will stop crying. You will loose the need to yell and kick and scream and cry. You are not insane. You are not making it up. You are not obsessing. You are not sick or crazy. You are not being a drama queen. You are not a masoquist and you are not a bad person.
I can tell you what you are, because you are the same thing I am. You are a good person who has been affected by the "family disease" of addiction. That is all. You can heal from this disease and have a life that is free of all that pain. You have already started to heal just by sharing on this forum.
Originally Posted by confused&tired
... I want to know what to do and I also know none of you can tell me what the answer is except within myself. ...
Originally Posted by confused&tired
... How do I stand up for what is morally correct and not be a disobedient wife? ...
Originally Posted by confused&tired
... How do I do these things which I have done in the past in one form or another and not take evasive/defensive/offensive action? How do I just let it all happen without moving a finger? ...
Originally Posted by confused&tired
... How do I by my grace and reverence, not with my mouth influence him to be godly (1st Peter)???...
Originally Posted by confused&tired
... How can I be godly if I don't even believe in anything anymore?...
You will survive and overcome all this. You will find your faith and your way again. You are loved by God, even though you cannot see it at this moment. You don't have to believe that. All of us here in this forum, and all the other recovering people in all the real life meetings will believe this for you until you can believe it yourself.
Mike :-)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
It sounds as if you are feeling guilty for wanting to protect yourself and your children. I know how that feels. My husband has many wonderful qualities, as well. Unfortunately, I had to protect myself and my children from the insanity of alcoholism.
Let me ask you this. If he were physically beating you and your children, would you still feel obligated to be the obedient wife?
The damage addiction does to families goes far deeper than that. You are and your children suffering from abuse to your spirits and souls. These wounds go far deeper and are much more difficult to heal than physical wounds.
Just another perspective for you to consider.
L
Let me ask you this. If he were physically beating you and your children, would you still feel obligated to be the obedient wife?
The damage addiction does to families goes far deeper than that. You are and your children suffering from abuse to your spirits and souls. These wounds go far deeper and are much more difficult to heal than physical wounds.
Just another perspective for you to consider.
L
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
C&T, each one of us could write a long list of good qualities of our current or ex loved one. Vent, get it off your chest, take what you want and leave the rest. You're just starting on your journey to learn all you can about the disease of addiction and the effects on the entire famliy. Have you looked into counseling for yourself? I can't imagine how one could endure all this with no outside support from a qualified therapist. It did me a world of good. There are books, Al Anon, the tools are there, all you have to do is reach out for them.
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: novato, ca
Posts: 181
I am new to this site as well and can relate to a lot of what you are experiencing. A LOT! The whole issue of needing to find things to promote sexual ability as the alcoholism progresses was brought up in another thread recently. There is so much to learn from other peolpe's experiences here. Good for you for keeping your boundaries when it's come to fullfilling his sexual fantasies. I tried going down that road with him one time after years of manipulation and eventual "badgering" on his part. I thought I'd make the best of it, after all it was kind of nice to get attention from other men. Big mistake... put and end to his fantasies though (or at least him subjecting me to them).
Like you, I love my husband and think he is a great man... on the days I'm not wishing he'd get hit by a truck. Like you I want to keep my family together and live happily ever after. The only thing I don't have is any religious motivation for my feelings. Thank God for that at least. Not to put down your beliefs but they do seem to make things even more complicated for you. Although, at least you have the benefit of your religious background giving you a better chance of appreciating Alanon meetings.
As for suicidal thoughts... I spent so much of my youth feeling suicidal that I finally got to the point that I recognized that those thoughts had become a comfort to me. After My mother died, when I was 20, I started focusing my thoughts on other things that could make me feel good. The more I focused on positive things to make each day worthwhile, the easier it became. I started simple with ice cream getting me through the day... Eventually I graduated to education and travel.
Living with my AH has brought me some of the best things in my lif but also some of the most challenging. I try to stay focused on the positive. I allow myself the occasional day of wallowing in self pity... then it's time to get up and go do something that will make me feel good (even if I don't want to). Usually, I do something with my children (okay, almost always). We go to museums, take art classes, find a good bakery, do a science project, read a good book, watch a history documentary, bake cookies...
Life is short and then you die so it really isn't rational to waste time wishing life away.
I do understand the heart wrenching pain of feeling like your losing your husband, whether it's the long, drawn out loss caused by his addiction or the loss caused by coming to terms with knowing you can't live with him another day. Of course, there's always the hope that things will get better. But all you can do is live your life to the best of your ability, being who you want to be, becoming who you want to become... then if he does get better, you'll be fine and if he doesn't get better you'll be fine anyway. I know someone on this site wrote something like that recently.
Like you, I love my husband and think he is a great man... on the days I'm not wishing he'd get hit by a truck. Like you I want to keep my family together and live happily ever after. The only thing I don't have is any religious motivation for my feelings. Thank God for that at least. Not to put down your beliefs but they do seem to make things even more complicated for you. Although, at least you have the benefit of your religious background giving you a better chance of appreciating Alanon meetings.
As for suicidal thoughts... I spent so much of my youth feeling suicidal that I finally got to the point that I recognized that those thoughts had become a comfort to me. After My mother died, when I was 20, I started focusing my thoughts on other things that could make me feel good. The more I focused on positive things to make each day worthwhile, the easier it became. I started simple with ice cream getting me through the day... Eventually I graduated to education and travel.
Living with my AH has brought me some of the best things in my lif but also some of the most challenging. I try to stay focused on the positive. I allow myself the occasional day of wallowing in self pity... then it's time to get up and go do something that will make me feel good (even if I don't want to). Usually, I do something with my children (okay, almost always). We go to museums, take art classes, find a good bakery, do a science project, read a good book, watch a history documentary, bake cookies...
Life is short and then you die so it really isn't rational to waste time wishing life away.
I do understand the heart wrenching pain of feeling like your losing your husband, whether it's the long, drawn out loss caused by his addiction or the loss caused by coming to terms with knowing you can't live with him another day. Of course, there's always the hope that things will get better. But all you can do is live your life to the best of your ability, being who you want to be, becoming who you want to become... then if he does get better, you'll be fine and if he doesn't get better you'll be fine anyway. I know someone on this site wrote something like that recently.
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