adult movies
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
That's what I meant, Patty 
(((Lizzy))) I'm sorry I've taken this away from your OP and also that I haven't welcolmed you to SR. This is a great place to learn stuff and to feel you aren't alone. Hope you stick around.
(((Lizzy))) I'm sorry I've taken this away from your OP and also that I haven't welcolmed you to SR. This is a great place to learn stuff and to feel you aren't alone. Hope you stick around.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
I think Minnie is my twin sister from a seperate Mother......
I feel pretty much like she does.
I personally dont have a problem with porn, or what happens between to consenting adults... I think because Men are more visiual ... its more of an enhancement to the act then anything.... I have to agree too with Minnie theory... sounds completely reasonable to me.
I think the real question here is .... What was the agreement the two of you had about porn before... has something changed, and if this was unacceptable then and he is now so far gone he does not have respect for your boundries...
Well there are some big issues in that...
I feel pretty much like she does.
I personally dont have a problem with porn, or what happens between to consenting adults... I think because Men are more visiual ... its more of an enhancement to the act then anything.... I have to agree too with Minnie theory... sounds completely reasonable to me.
I think the real question here is .... What was the agreement the two of you had about porn before... has something changed, and if this was unacceptable then and he is now so far gone he does not have respect for your boundries...
Well there are some big issues in that...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
I've been known to watch a movie or two..so it's not so much the porn is the issue but the frequency that the guy is using it..
I've been with a few guys I would say had a "porn" addiction as well as a drug/alcohol addiction..
in other words they were using porn when I was more then willing..
So for me - it was an intimacy problem..they were avoiding intimacy with me..
I've been with a few guys I would say had a "porn" addiction as well as a drug/alcohol addiction..
in other words they were using porn when I was more then willing..
So for me - it was an intimacy problem..they were avoiding intimacy with me..
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Intimacy, yes that's the word I was looking for when I made up "emotional dis-connectedness"!! Thanks Minx.
Emotional intimacy, or lack of it, is the crux of everything we talk about on here for me.
Emotional intimacy, or lack of it, is the crux of everything we talk about on here for me.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by denny57
I agree, Pick. This has been my experience with AH. When it comes to our situation, they may as well call it the (insert AH's name) chart, because he has followed it exactly. Right now he only has all alibis exhausted left.
haha...yes; it's right on the money for my AH,too. Actually, when I first saw it (Jellinek chart: http://www.songdov.com/jellinek.htm ), I thought "no way" will he ever do this or that (porn,OW,geographics,etc,etc)...........guess what....he did. He is running out of "chart"; hope he starts the upswing, and FAST!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: far from home
Posts: 12
My AH is very into porn when his addiction is active, spending thousands of dollars on porn, not just plain man / woman stuff either and it really stresses me out, I hate it but I do know that it is part of his disease but I know not all addicts have that kind of behaviour. I had to edit this to add the porn is all adult though I thought maybe my earlier statement might sound misleading, its all adult just not between couples in the standard way.
Last edited by AussieintheUSA; 03-29-2006 at 06:57 PM. Reason: something i said might sound misleading
How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 612
Many men are addicted to porn.
For those who are OK with porn movies, I have a simple question:
Would it be OK with you if your daughter/sister/wife was in one of those movies?
If the answer is "no", then maybe you need to ask yourself why.
And for the record, I am against porn because it degrades women.
For those who are OK with porn movies, I have a simple question:
Would it be OK with you if your daughter/sister/wife was in one of those movies?
If the answer is "no", then maybe you need to ask yourself why.
And for the record, I am against porn because it degrades women.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 66
My Ah was very into porn as well. At one of his lowest point he was homeless and no one had heard from him in a week. We were thinking the absolute worse, my dad and I went looking for him near a shelter where he stayed, many of the homeless men in the area lived in a field, so we started our search there. Next thing we know my AH came stumbling out of a near by, half boarded up building drunk as a skunk, with his pants half way down. Little did we know, that building was a porn shop with viewing booths. YUCK, how sad, he didnt even realize that he should be embarrassed. Of course he blacked out and that memory is mine, not his.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by Pick-a-name
I think it is a part of the whole progression....AH never had so much as a magazine for years.....well now I think that has changed. Jellinek talks about moral and spiritual decline; if it goes on long enough, I do think that is true. Just my experience.
Look at it this way...
At 8 years old, it felt so good just to hold hands.
At 12 years old...Wow a kiss.
At 13 a kiss and a hug.
At 16....
At 18....
Married....
Married after porn watching starts....
Progression is a natural thing and by adding porn into the mix, you can speed it up.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
There's more risk taking in drinkers - that's reflected in the DSM diagnostic criteria of alcohol abuse and dependency, but what risks are taken and why depends on the person.
What worries me when every kind of behaviour is seen as part of 'the disease' is the sense that underneath lies someone without those flaws and faults. If you want to see the person you can't do that while everything gets explained by pathology.
When D was actively drinking he didn't do a damn thing around the house, he left a mess everywhere. Now he's sober he's working on it but HELL he is still a messy person and if he isn't told to do something he just walks past it!
There are plenty of non addicts that watch porn, probably more than most would know about as sober they'd be better able to hide it.
Some sober men also cheat, lie, manipulate, get abusive, control, show - in fact all human nasty sides too, same as some women.
I think there is an escalation when drink gets added to the mix - but what escalates is still about the person. I've known as many people drunk tell everyone how much they love them as want to start a fight - I say that from waitressing. My best mates partner manages a city centre bar and lives by the rule that someone who's trouble drunk will also be trouble sober (eventually).
My feeling is to be careful what's put down to disease - look disease up in the dictionary, begin to understand it in more clinical terms, at least understand it, you don't have to agree.
I believe alcoholism is a disease, but not a constantly all incompassing, wild fire view of disease that leads to some of the debates.
The dictionary is a fine place to start.
What worries me when every kind of behaviour is seen as part of 'the disease' is the sense that underneath lies someone without those flaws and faults. If you want to see the person you can't do that while everything gets explained by pathology.
When D was actively drinking he didn't do a damn thing around the house, he left a mess everywhere. Now he's sober he's working on it but HELL he is still a messy person and if he isn't told to do something he just walks past it!
There are plenty of non addicts that watch porn, probably more than most would know about as sober they'd be better able to hide it.
Some sober men also cheat, lie, manipulate, get abusive, control, show - in fact all human nasty sides too, same as some women.
I think there is an escalation when drink gets added to the mix - but what escalates is still about the person. I've known as many people drunk tell everyone how much they love them as want to start a fight - I say that from waitressing. My best mates partner manages a city centre bar and lives by the rule that someone who's trouble drunk will also be trouble sober (eventually).
My feeling is to be careful what's put down to disease - look disease up in the dictionary, begin to understand it in more clinical terms, at least understand it, you don't have to agree.
I believe alcoholism is a disease, but not a constantly all incompassing, wild fire view of disease that leads to some of the debates.
The dictionary is a fine place to start.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
At one point in time, with 4 teenage boys in this house doing a lot of "pokin around" on the Internet, I developed a speech. "Those women are doing these things for money. This crap is not indicative of what a normal healthy physical side of a relationship looks like. Now cut it out! You're Mother sees you downloading this crap she's gonna freak! And I'm sick and tired of re-imaging your hard drive b/c you keep hitting these slimy web sites and getting viruses and spy ware!" I would expect teenage boys AND girls to use any avenue available to explore their curiosity. Adults are different.
I also have a half-baked theory. I noticed that in long-term relationships where some of the "zip" has begun to fade, women tend to read a lot of romance novels and men tend to turn to porn, looking to replace what's missing. This of course does not address the really whacked out stuff that some folks get into, or habitual use of porn. That's another thing entirely. Women turning to romance novels and men turning to porn is just another sign the relationship is in trouble IMO.
I also have a half-baked theory. I noticed that in long-term relationships where some of the "zip" has begun to fade, women tend to read a lot of romance novels and men tend to turn to porn, looking to replace what's missing. This of course does not address the really whacked out stuff that some folks get into, or habitual use of porn. That's another thing entirely. Women turning to romance novels and men turning to porn is just another sign the relationship is in trouble IMO.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Pick-a-name
I think it is a part of the whole progression....AH never had so much as a magazine for years.....well now I think that has changed. Jellinek talks about moral and spiritual decline; if it goes on long enough, I do think that is true. Just my experience.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Jellinek Was a Cheat!
Stanton Peele
October, 1997
Sociologist Ron Roizen has discovered that E.M. Jellinek manufactured his education and degrees! Although Jellinek was born in America (in Brooklyn), he claimed that his university degrees were acquired overseas. In the prestigious journal Addiction, head Rutgers Alcohol Center librarian Penny Page reported that Jellinek "studied in Germany and France, receiving a master's degree in education and later an honorary Sc.D. (Doctor of Science) from the University of Leipzig." Meanwhile, Jellinek's own CV listed attendance at the University of Leipzig from 1911-1914, accompanied by the notations "M.Ed., 1913" and "Sc.D., 1936."
Roizen noted that Jellinek, who was Jewish by birth, claimed to have received a Ph.D. from a German University after the Nazis had solidified power (which seems highly unlikely). In addition, Jellinek claimed in his CV to have been director of the Biometric Laboratory at the Memorial Foundation for Neuro-endocrine Research at Worcester, Massachusetts from 1931-1939.
Roizen wrote to Leipzig and obtained Jellinek's transcript, which showed that Elvin Morton Jellinek had studied philosophy at Leipzig from November 1911 to July 1913 and from November 1913 to December 1914. Jellinek, however, received no degrees at Leipzig. Moreover, "Jellinek appears to have been dropped from the University's rolls in both 1913 and 1914, for failure to attend lectures or take classes." E.M. Jellinek, the man revered for proposing a scientific basis for the idea that alcoholism is a disease, and after whom the most prestigious international award for alcoholism research is named, is a liar and a fraud!
This discovery is doubly amusing given that anthropologist William Madsen devoted a good deal of space to attacking philosopher Herbert Fingarette (a critic of the disease theory of alcoholism) for not being able to get Jellinek's academic credentials straight:
Fingarette, as I have said, has a terrible time with facts. I was asked to reply to [an article Fingarette authored]. . . . Among other errors, I pointed out that E.M. Jellinek was not a "distinguished sociologist." In his new book [Heavy Drinking], therefore, Fingarette changed this and identifies Jellinek as a "distinguished biostatistician." He was not a biostatistician. I DO NOT INTEND TO IDENTIFY JELLINEK'S ACADEMIC AND SCIENTIFIC CREDENTIALS FOR FINGARETTE. I am sure that with his vast experience in library research [this is a put-down of Fingarette's lack of experience with actual alcoholics] he may in time discover the reality for himself.
Perhaps Madsen can now offer his version of Jellinek's scientific training, background, and credentials. In general, Madsen's point is that a long line of distinguished scientists have found the biological/genetic basis for alcoholism, beginning with Jellinek, who is thus important for establishing the scientific pedigree for this idea: "Although others had postulated a biological basis for alcoholism long before Jellinek, he gave this hypothesis strong support by those who interpreted his 'X' factor as being physiological."
References
Page, P. (1997). E.M. Jellinek and the evolution of alcohol studies: A critical essay. Addiction, 92:1619-1637.
Stanton Peele
October, 1997
Sociologist Ron Roizen has discovered that E.M. Jellinek manufactured his education and degrees! Although Jellinek was born in America (in Brooklyn), he claimed that his university degrees were acquired overseas. In the prestigious journal Addiction, head Rutgers Alcohol Center librarian Penny Page reported that Jellinek "studied in Germany and France, receiving a master's degree in education and later an honorary Sc.D. (Doctor of Science) from the University of Leipzig." Meanwhile, Jellinek's own CV listed attendance at the University of Leipzig from 1911-1914, accompanied by the notations "M.Ed., 1913" and "Sc.D., 1936."
Roizen noted that Jellinek, who was Jewish by birth, claimed to have received a Ph.D. from a German University after the Nazis had solidified power (which seems highly unlikely). In addition, Jellinek claimed in his CV to have been director of the Biometric Laboratory at the Memorial Foundation for Neuro-endocrine Research at Worcester, Massachusetts from 1931-1939.
Roizen wrote to Leipzig and obtained Jellinek's transcript, which showed that Elvin Morton Jellinek had studied philosophy at Leipzig from November 1911 to July 1913 and from November 1913 to December 1914. Jellinek, however, received no degrees at Leipzig. Moreover, "Jellinek appears to have been dropped from the University's rolls in both 1913 and 1914, for failure to attend lectures or take classes." E.M. Jellinek, the man revered for proposing a scientific basis for the idea that alcoholism is a disease, and after whom the most prestigious international award for alcoholism research is named, is a liar and a fraud!
This discovery is doubly amusing given that anthropologist William Madsen devoted a good deal of space to attacking philosopher Herbert Fingarette (a critic of the disease theory of alcoholism) for not being able to get Jellinek's academic credentials straight:
Fingarette, as I have said, has a terrible time with facts. I was asked to reply to [an article Fingarette authored]. . . . Among other errors, I pointed out that E.M. Jellinek was not a "distinguished sociologist." In his new book [Heavy Drinking], therefore, Fingarette changed this and identifies Jellinek as a "distinguished biostatistician." He was not a biostatistician. I DO NOT INTEND TO IDENTIFY JELLINEK'S ACADEMIC AND SCIENTIFIC CREDENTIALS FOR FINGARETTE. I am sure that with his vast experience in library research [this is a put-down of Fingarette's lack of experience with actual alcoholics] he may in time discover the reality for himself.
Perhaps Madsen can now offer his version of Jellinek's scientific training, background, and credentials. In general, Madsen's point is that a long line of distinguished scientists have found the biological/genetic basis for alcoholism, beginning with Jellinek, who is thus important for establishing the scientific pedigree for this idea: "Although others had postulated a biological basis for alcoholism long before Jellinek, he gave this hypothesis strong support by those who interpreted his 'X' factor as being physiological."
References
Page, P. (1997). E.M. Jellinek and the evolution of alcohol studies: A critical essay. Addiction, 92:1619-1637.
*
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lincolnshire, England
Posts: 464
Originally Posted by Equus
There's more risk taking in drinkers - that's reflected in the DSM diagnostic criteria of alcohol abuse and dependency, but what risks are taken and why depends on the person.
What worries me when every kind of behaviour is seen as part of 'the disease' is the sense that underneath lies someone without those flaws and faults. If you want to see the person you can't do that while everything gets explained by pathology.
When D was actively drinking he didn't do a damn thing around the house, he left a mess everywhere. Now he's sober he's working on it but HELL he is still a messy person and if he isn't told to do something he just walks past it!
There are plenty of non addicts that watch porn, probably more than most would know about as sober they'd be better able to hide it.
Some sober men also cheat, lie, manipulate, get abusive, control, show - in fact all human nasty sides too, same as some women.
I think there is an escalation when drink gets added to the mix - but what escalates is still about the person. I've known as many people drunk tell everyone how much they love them as want to start a fight - I say that from waitressing. My best mates partner manages a city centre bar and lives by the rule that someone who's trouble drunk will also be trouble sober (eventually).
My feeling is to be careful what's put down to disease - look disease up in the dictionary, begin to understand it in more clinical terms, at least understand it, you don't have to agree.
I believe alcoholism is a disease, but not a constantly all incompassing, wild fire view of disease that leads to some of the debates.
The dictionary is a fine place to start.
What worries me when every kind of behaviour is seen as part of 'the disease' is the sense that underneath lies someone without those flaws and faults. If you want to see the person you can't do that while everything gets explained by pathology.
When D was actively drinking he didn't do a damn thing around the house, he left a mess everywhere. Now he's sober he's working on it but HELL he is still a messy person and if he isn't told to do something he just walks past it!
There are plenty of non addicts that watch porn, probably more than most would know about as sober they'd be better able to hide it.
Some sober men also cheat, lie, manipulate, get abusive, control, show - in fact all human nasty sides too, same as some women.
I think there is an escalation when drink gets added to the mix - but what escalates is still about the person. I've known as many people drunk tell everyone how much they love them as want to start a fight - I say that from waitressing. My best mates partner manages a city centre bar and lives by the rule that someone who's trouble drunk will also be trouble sober (eventually).
My feeling is to be careful what's put down to disease - look disease up in the dictionary, begin to understand it in more clinical terms, at least understand it, you don't have to agree.
I believe alcoholism is a disease, but not a constantly all incompassing, wild fire view of disease that leads to some of the debates.
The dictionary is a fine place to start.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Disease has become another word for sin. Where as once looking at pornography was asin, now its a disease...Over spending is a disease, too much masturbation is a disease, drug taking is a disease, drinking to much is a disease.
In the church thats just plain old sinning.
To a secular person its just bad behaviour.
...but its funny that for most of these "diseases" the only treatment is to find God through the twelve steps.
If people want to "sin" or indulge then I say let them, the consequences will soon pile up - I dont believe they are sick with a disease, I just think its what some humans do, and have always done, and always will do. Nearly everyone I know has a weakness for something. I smoke because I want to smoke. I used to drink because I wanted to drink. If I was not incontrol of my behaviour, then how did I stop drinking?
In the church thats just plain old sinning.
To a secular person its just bad behaviour.
...but its funny that for most of these "diseases" the only treatment is to find God through the twelve steps.
If people want to "sin" or indulge then I say let them, the consequences will soon pile up - I dont believe they are sick with a disease, I just think its what some humans do, and have always done, and always will do. Nearly everyone I know has a weakness for something. I smoke because I want to smoke. I used to drink because I wanted to drink. If I was not incontrol of my behaviour, then how did I stop drinking?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
It should also be acknowledged that most proponents of the disease theory seemed somehow tied to Jellinik, AA, and "spiritual" recovery - whilst those who say its plain old behaviour (peele.net) are those who believe in no treatment at all - who insist that behaviour changes when the persons life and values changes, and that treatment has become a hinderance on the alcohol problem.
I am by no means keyed up on all of this - and I dont want to misqoute; all I know is that disease theory does not stand up to all the evidence, and the "bad behaviour" theory also does not stand up to all the evidence.
What I will say though is the "spiritual dimension" is not needed for everyone.
I am by no means keyed up on all of this - and I dont want to misqoute; all I know is that disease theory does not stand up to all the evidence, and the "bad behaviour" theory also does not stand up to all the evidence.
What I will say though is the "spiritual dimension" is not needed for everyone.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 371
I was late getting to this thread, but I have alot of input on it. I believe that men, even as teens are curious about porn...and most have looked at it at one point or another. Once they are in a relationship however, I think it is all about RESPECT.
I think that if a couple wants to enjoy a movie together, it might be perfectly ok. BUT, if it moves beyond that point, it can be harmful to the spouse. Here is my history on it.
AH and I very seldom watched the movies... one day I was cleaning and I found a lunch box nearly FULL of DVD porns. I questioned him on it, he said oh..those are old. Well, they couldn't have really been that old, because we'd only had a DVD player for not even a year. I didn't make a fuss. Then... I started finding it on the computer as well. I mean his whole history would be site after site after site. Mind you, my husband wakes up at around 3 or 4 am and starts looking at this, or would come home from work and start drinking, lock himself in computer room until bed time looking at this. It was downloads of all sorts of disgusting things...to the point that you couldn't turn on the computer in front of the kids, b/c with all the spam that was on the computer the videos would sometimes start on their own, with NO WARNING!! I made several attempts to ask him not to do this.... still did. Sort of like the attempts to ask him to quit drinking. NOW to my point! I don't think the two are connected as in it's a part of the disease... HOWEVER!
I do think, that the clouded judgement, lack of respect, lack of intimacy, lack of.. dang what is the word I'm looking for....humanity, I guess for lack of a better word, that all of these things that grow with the progression of alcoholism...make it seem NORMAL to the individual looking at it. Does that make sense. I feel like its sort of like Codies...we have the lines we say we won't let get crossed...next thing you know it's crossed and we say.. ok THIS is the new line... then it gets crossed. I think A's are the same way. IT's about RESPECT and JUDGEMENT.
Since we've been going to the counselor, AH has said that for him it was about visual stimulation. His excuse was...he was looking for ideas to spice up our love life. Well, to me.... it killed it. Anyway...these are JUST MY OPINIONS>>>of MY OWN EXPERIENCE... Ayers
I think that if a couple wants to enjoy a movie together, it might be perfectly ok. BUT, if it moves beyond that point, it can be harmful to the spouse. Here is my history on it.
AH and I very seldom watched the movies... one day I was cleaning and I found a lunch box nearly FULL of DVD porns. I questioned him on it, he said oh..those are old. Well, they couldn't have really been that old, because we'd only had a DVD player for not even a year. I didn't make a fuss. Then... I started finding it on the computer as well. I mean his whole history would be site after site after site. Mind you, my husband wakes up at around 3 or 4 am and starts looking at this, or would come home from work and start drinking, lock himself in computer room until bed time looking at this. It was downloads of all sorts of disgusting things...to the point that you couldn't turn on the computer in front of the kids, b/c with all the spam that was on the computer the videos would sometimes start on their own, with NO WARNING!! I made several attempts to ask him not to do this.... still did. Sort of like the attempts to ask him to quit drinking. NOW to my point! I don't think the two are connected as in it's a part of the disease... HOWEVER!
I do think, that the clouded judgement, lack of respect, lack of intimacy, lack of.. dang what is the word I'm looking for....humanity, I guess for lack of a better word, that all of these things that grow with the progression of alcoholism...make it seem NORMAL to the individual looking at it. Does that make sense. I feel like its sort of like Codies...we have the lines we say we won't let get crossed...next thing you know it's crossed and we say.. ok THIS is the new line... then it gets crossed. I think A's are the same way. IT's about RESPECT and JUDGEMENT.
Since we've been going to the counselor, AH has said that for him it was about visual stimulation. His excuse was...he was looking for ideas to spice up our love life. Well, to me.... it killed it. Anyway...these are JUST MY OPINIONS>>>of MY OWN EXPERIENCE... Ayers
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