Kathleen1

Our Son is eight, nearly nine. My AH doesn't want anything to do with him most of the time. He won't pick him up from school, he won't make him any food, even if I am out all day, he won't tuck him in or read him a story, wash his clothes, take him out, even speaking to him in a civil tone of voice is a chore...most of the time he answers my sons questions with a sarcastic reply which isn't needed at all.

Alot of the time I try to shield my son, tell him not to bother his father, he's got a headache, he doesn't feel well, he's tired etc..

Now the only time, and I mean the only time my AH takes an interest in our son is when it comes to laying out rules and discipline.

AH seems to almost pick fights with my son, argue with him in a nasty kind of way...if I say anything it's "none of my business" or he's "only playing"...but if my son becomes too boisterous and with it get's cheeky then he get's into trouble.

My AH isn't violent towards our child, but threatens him and on occasions calls him names. The name calling I won't stand for, but I don't know what goes on when I'm not there. He's even told our son not to go "telling tales" to me if he's told off about something.

If I ask why our son is upstairs crying I get a dirty look and "I shouldn't have to explain myself to you...I don't question you when you tell him off" etc etc...

Another thing he likes to do is set our son up for a fall...for example, turn your TV off by 7pm, if it's not off then I'll take the TV away from you. He knows quite well our son will get absorbed in what he is watching/doing and will forget to turn his TV off, he seems to take great pleasure in "catching him out"...Where as I would rather shout up the stairs that it's time to turn the TV off.

My question is...given that my AH is only interested in rules and regulations and won't get involved in any other way...should I put my foot down and stop him from having any say in the discipline? Why should he be involved in that part if he's not willing to muck in with others?

But he also says I am far too soft with our boy, and I admit I am...I just hate my AH bullying him.

Sorry if it was long...

MamaGoose

I'm sorry but that sounds very abusive to me. So he's only into setting him up and then punishing him? Sounds pretty sick to me.

If he doesn't want to nourish and care for him, not even feed him and you have to protect him from his father then that is really bad.

My three sons' father was absent and they miss the male figure in their life but better that than abuse.

Kathleen1

That's how I see it, but he has a way of twisting things to make it seem like I'm over reacting and over ruling him...and god forbid if I do over rule him, which I do quite often, the sulking is unbelievable.

How do I set boundries? I'm already in the process of arranging to leave him, but it will take time and until then I want to make certain things clear to him without him being able to talk his way out of it or manipulate the situation.

MamaGoose

I would do whatever I could to protect my child.

Jane Doe

It does sound like a type of abuse. Honsestly, I don't think that is fair for your son. I am not a parent but I think that it's probably better for your son to not be around him, than to get so little attention and negative at that.

I know how hard it is to deal with an AH, especially their manipulation but I think in this situation you have to put your son first. Good luck. Ihope your situation improves, I can't imagine dealing with an AH & having a child in the mix.

I can't seem to stop being manipulated by mine. Thank goodness I just have a dog.

laurie6781

Just a suggestion, but while you are "already in the process of arranging to leave him, but it will take time and until then I want to make certain things clear to him without him" that you get your 8 yr old son into therapy.

There he will be able to open up in time to someone he can learn to trust and get rid of his frustration. Also, you will then have a record of "abuse" should you proceed to court in the future.

However, I believe your son could use some help now to cope with a very sad situation for you and him.

JMHO

Love and hugs,

Ayers1995

My Ah does the same thing to our 3 sons. We have 9 yo and twins that are fixing to turn 8. He picks on them, then gets on to them and yells. He will playingingly call them names, then get mad if they say something similar.

A would get drunk, and then want to play rough with them and they'd be crying and screaming running from him. He would get mad and call them names and get mad at me for sticking up for them. Calling me names and saying that I was turning them into p's. Also, he didn't do anything for them...either. I did everything... seemed like the kids were just a burden to him.

Finally, once I'd had it. I sat him down and told him how I felt about things. He did not see things the same as me. He said that he always thought he was just playing. I told him children crying and hiding under the kitchen table from a staggering drunk..is not playing. I have recently moved out. He is trying to do better with the kids, and trying to win us back... not sure if that will work. I have also started counseling, and i am also getting my boys into counseling individually. It is a long mess, i am sure, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Not sure if anything I said helped, but you are not the only one to have to deal with things like this.

Aquiana

What your AH is doing to your son seems totally wrong to me too. There are obviously going to be punishments but there has to be a loving balance with them. Is there any way you can limit the amount of time they are alone until you are able to leave? I know when G was still drinking like crazy, I took our son everywhere with me even if it was just to the store for a carton of milk. Huge pain in the butt because he's only a baby and it meant having to lug all of his heavy stuff around but at least I didn't have to worry about what was happening when I wasn't around. Ie: G passed out while he was supposed to be watching him. Do you have family/friends that can look after him when you have to go out? Perhaps he can go out to some of his friends places, where the parents understand what's going on? We visited his grandparents often. It was free, and we could get out of the house when G was starting trouble.

BTW, a therapist is a great idea.

sunshine003

It sounds abusive to me also. Not only that but you trying to sheild your son from his dad isn't helping either. Because your husband is how he is, you'll hide stuff your son actually does do from his dad I bet....and your son will grow up knowing that. don't get me wrong, if I were going to stay, I would do the same thing. My point is, if you stay and everything stays as is, then you are adding to the abuse yourself, you'd be just as guilty in my eyes. your son will learn to lie, etc.

I don't know, i realize it's hard to leave but isn't there anyone you could stay with? family? your mom? until you could sort it out in your own mind?

Cynay

Boy does that one suck... and I have to agree with everyone here.. I would get him into counseling or something. Dont think for one moment that is not abusive to a child... especially when its coming from a parent.

As far as setting boundries and sticking to them and not letting him manipulated you or twisting things around... Have you thought about going to Al-anon or getting counseling yourself? When I finally got more educated about the disease and the typical behavior of an A.... I could then get to a point of detaching... Once I got there I could hear the quack quack quack and I was not so easly manipulated and could follow through with my boundries.

gelfling

Sounds like Dad is a very sick puppy. How much you want to bet his father did the same thing to him? We know a guy who is like that to his kids and his dad did it to him too. Seems perfectly normal to them when in fact it is abuse.

Please seek help for yourself and your son.

pmaslan

I would tend to agree with Gelfing on this......
Breaks my heart to hear this

ICU

Kathleen,

I'm not a parent, so the only perspective I can share with you is of being a child in a similar situation.

My only recollections of my Dad while I was growing up was that of a disiplinarian. Several memories come to mind. I was about 5, and my Dad wanted me to read a card that I was giving my Mom for her birthday. It had the word 'sincerely' in it. I couldn't sound it out. He became frustrated with me because I didn't do it right. Eventually, I began to cry. I remember his hand hitting me, open palmed, right across my eyes. I temporarily lost my sight. Then he told me to shut up and not let my Mother hear me cry. To this day, I still have problems remembering how to spell 'sincerely'. Not even sure if I spelled it correctly here or not! I wonder why?

Also have memories of him telling me that I will think 'what he tells me to think', and after telling me to jump, I had better pray that I jumped high enough to please him.

I remember I didn't do my math homework on time. He beat the living crap out of me until I peed in my pants. My mother just sat on the bed, with her hands folded neatly across her lap, and watched, said and did NOTHING! I used to be an "A/B" student. My grades fell to "C/D" shortly after that. I wonder why?

My point? One day my Dad decided he had been to harsh. Think I was around 14 then. He came up to me to brush his hand across my face before he left for work. As his hand made contact with my skin, my face burned and hurt. Instictively, I pulled back. The hurt look within his eyes I can still see today. I felt bad; but yet my face still hurt! I wonder why?

My Mom? I lost all respect for a woman who didn't save me! I wish she had had the courage to leave my father with all us kids to give us a healthier way of life. It was unusual for the mother to leave with the kids back then, but, not unheard of! For years I had resentments, and I truly think that was the foundation for the bad relationships I formed as an adult. I wonder why?

Today I am done blaming them as I realize they both were human, and did the best they could with the obvious limited coping skills they had. I forgive them. But, the scars are still there. And it didn't have to be that way.

I would give anything not to have been exposed to that abuse when I was a kid. But, it was what it was, and that's something I had no control of.

I made the concsious choice not to have children, because I was so afraid it might be hereditary.** I know now it's not; but rather it's what you learn....the cycle of abuse. I think now if I were to have kids, I would be a great Mom because of all of the realizations that I have come to. But I'm 40 something now, so, it's not going to happen.

If you know something is wrong with how your s/o is treating you kids, DO SOMETHING about it. Kids don't have the legal means to make choices for themselves in this type of situation. You however, do!

** Wanted to add: What helped me form that fear was that years ago, my brother, who is about 10 years older than I, continued the same cycle with his first born child, his son. All I know is that today, my nephew has numerous problems with bouts of anger, never graduated high school, and has moved clear across the country. I wonder why?

Jazzman

Powerful post ICU, and a good reason for anyone w/ children in this type of situation to take head! Get support and counseling for yourself and your children. The effects of this type of emotional abuse on the children are deep and long lasting.

LaTeeDa

Very powerful. Even though I have changed the situation, and gotten counseling and other help for myself and my children, the possible lasting effects on their lives sometimes keep me awake at night.

L

Kathleen1

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I HAVE to go to work..my AH doesn't work, doesn't do anything really. I have no family that can help. I work nights, come home, take my son to school, feed the pets, clean up and go to bed before picking my son up. I average about 4-5 hours sleep a day.
If it is the weekend I have no choice BUT to leave our son with his father, I have to work, I have to sleep.
He can be lovely with our son but it's quite rare and no where near enough.
I let my AH know when his behaviour towards our son is unacceptable.

I thank you all for your replies, but with all thanks put aside, nobody has really answered my question. Both my son and I are already in councelling and we will leave soon, as soon as I get another house sorted out, which I am in the process of doing. I am not pondering whether I should stay with this man, that decision was made a long time ago, I am not his doormat.

My question was, until this is possible, should I cut my AH out of any decision making in regards to discipline...basically telling him not to even speak to our son unless they are words of kindness?

TIA

equus

Bearing in mind you have no means to back up what you decide with actions it seems a null point. How would you check things while you're not there? How can he look after your son without making decisions?

I might wish that you could cut him out of the decisions - what he's doing sounds harmful but if you raise it, if you say he can't do this all I can see as a consequence is a more pi$$ed off hubby still left to look after your son. I don't see how that could help matters but I can easily imagine it making them worse.

It's my hunch you know where the answer lies and that it isn't in trying to control your hubby's behaviour while you're not there - seems like you've tried that to no avail anyway.

Jazzman

That's going to be a tough one to answer. If your son suffers no repercussions... sure! But how would you know? It's hard to tip toe around an active alcoholic that is prone to mean and nasty moods when drinking. BTDT.



I was much more tolerant of catching the brunt of my ex’s mean and nasty moods but when she was mean to my children, (from a previous marriage) I made the decision to remove her from our lives quickly. Of course not everyone will be in the same position as I was. Good luck!

Ceridwen

Hi - I'm very new here so take my advice with a pinch of salt.
I too worry about my husband and his lack of good parenting on my son (although thankfully it is not yet at the stage you are living with), I cannot see how I can stay with an alcoholic and subject our son to that environment, so I think I will have to make the decision to leave as you have done.

Do you have a timescale for leaving? I ask because it may be easier to formulate a short term plan for minimising alone-time contact between your husband and son and therefore the damage? Pehaps you could ask for a short term change in your shifts (sorry don't know your job), get him to stay over at friends' houses alot, perhaps arrange afterschool activities etc and weekend things. Or look into afterschool/weekend childcare (I know he is older but as a short-term fix).
If finances are an issue, have you checked out that you are getting a full range of tax credits etc? and you may already be really slick when it comes to getting the best deals for gas electric etc, but moving your providers could free up some money that may allow him to go to a club or activity that gets him out of the house.

If you don't have a timescale - then I would seriously consider doing anything to change your working pattern long-term - presumably when you get another house you will need someone to look after your son in the evenings and weekends when you are working anyway,

I hope things improve for you

Pick-a-name

(((Kathleen))) I am sorry you are in this position......been there, and in a way , even though AH is not living with us, because he is still their father, it still is going on to some extent and always will. Thank you for the reminder; I really,really needed it today! Part of me had "forgotten" part of that and why I told him and kids (now 18 and 24) told him we can not tolerate his behavior and will not live ith it. It is still hard. Yes; I hear the "babying" my children thing,too because they were always with me.......even though often he was not even here, but outsiders don't understand (nor do I feel the need to "justify" to them).

The discipline is so hard on many levels. Our son is ADHD and that was always a nightmare.....they are STILL at it. In fact, this week. Things are somewhat better now that I feel safer to try to stay out of the middle as much as possible. There is still verbal abuse and they both pull each other's chains with $ issues. UGH It is hard when they both come to me in pain about what the other said to them, but I tell them they will have to work that out between them (not happening while AH is still using).

What I tried to do while he was living here was to make as many decisions myself as possible (and usually I was the only one dealing with them), but TRIED to go along with his wishes. The best interest of the kids was my goal; no matter the flack. Sometimes if I just did it instead of discuss, it worked out better. Small things I could bend on, and often did. Sometimes I just let the subject die a natural death and then the next day go along and often he had a 180 degree change on it by then.....you never know. Really;the things that caused/cause the biggest problems are the "dumb" stuff, like not holding a fork correctly and he was raging at us all........telling us how terrible our manners are! He is resentful we are not "perfect". I am sure you know the feeling.

He comes from a whole line on his dad's side that were/are like that,too. It is really very sad.

My kids have gotten so they do not accept that behavior from him by boundaries and words. They encouraged me not to allow him to return home; I still think of AH as the kind, gentle man I married......not the angry, sick man he is today. Treating us abusively is not good for any of us; especially the kids and me.

Good luck to you. It really is a no-win situation, but do what you know is right however you can (and for me that means/meant talking as little about it with him as possible: and if it's not about him, he really isn't interested anyhow). I don't know if that was any "help" , but the memory jog DID help me...thank you for that. (Seeing others say it isn't normal, because after a while I sometimes think it is me and in my mind...it isn't.)

p.s. Telling my AH "not" to do something, is a sure-fire way for him to take an instant interest in being completely involved in doing exactly what it is I want him not to be........so for me, the less said, the better. Otherwise he is all about being the "father who knows what is best and makes the rules and enforces them";he has a need to be in control then. Just my experience.